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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

Cycloid. They should offer more options though. Toss in a circle pad version, and something akin to the Hori Split Pad Pros.
Eh? Cycloid or Circle Pad are similar concepts. Cycloid has no rubber top, is digital and doesn't self-centre, Circle Pad does all these things. Why wouldn't you want it to self-centre? Offering both would also be pretty redundant.

I very much don't expect there to be first party options outside the ordinary, they'll leave those to third parties.
 
In the United States, Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars was $69.99 when it first released in 1996. I put that in the Bureau of Labor Statistics inflation calculator, and it came out to $137.84.

IMG-1518.jpg


I had never been more excited for a video game at that point, and I bugged my mom for months because I was an unemployed freeloader. I only got two games a year as a kid (in hindsight, fair). Like a year or two later, my neighbor got it for ~$20 new from Toys R Us. Sorry, mama…

Prices were mostly “normal” on Nintendo 64. Outside of Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire ($79.99), I never personally saw a game over $49.99. PlayStation games were still cheaper and dropped in price faster.
Reminded me of why I was a pirate when I was in high school and early college. I had no money and games were expensive.
 
Eh? Cycloid or Circle Pad are similar concepts. Cycloid has no rubber top, is digital and doesn't self-centre, Circle Pad does all these things. Why wouldn't you want it to self-centre? Offering both would also be pretty redundant.

I very much don't expect there to be first party options outside the ordinary, they'll leave those to third parties.
I'm misunderstanding you. I was thinking a tilting stick like the current joycons have.
 
I don't want to bash insiders who get things wrong as bad people as that's really weird and you shouldn't do that, but also Necro clearly does not have any sources and literally every report he does is piggy backing off other reports.
That is not true.
Necro had been leaking the exact date of the directs for several years, among other things. That his source was wrong for once does not invalidate his record nor justify disrespecting him now.
 
Also I swear people get way too up in arms and pissed when insiders, leakers, and whoever else gets shit wrong. Like it is not that big of a deal. No one is perfect either.
and things constantly change, i have followed nate for over a decade, he would never speak on anything where he didnt check with multiple sources. but there are haters out there who have no sources who cant wait for moments like this.
 
Ho I see the insider witch hunt has begun
I'm away from my computer otherwise I'd make the "Don't make me tap the sign" meme with the staff post 😅

There are block button on fami?
It's technically an ignore button (if there's a difference) but yep! Click the user's name and a small menu will pop up with the option.
 
So, can we safely say that Nintendo didn't move the Direct because of that podcast? It's kinda funny how some us here, myself included, thought that this was gonna be some earth shattering reveal of Microsoft's future in the industry, when this could have been a Twitter drop.
Even if Nintendo knew exactly what Microsoft was going to say, it's still The Big Game News Event of the Day that was highly anticipated, and is being much talked about even over here on forums centered around Nintendo.
 
The question is, do game programmers declare variables that store the xyz coordinates as FP16 or FP32 explicitly?
Yes.

and if so, are they deciding on which precision to use based on the number of vertices the object has?
No.

Two things. First, as has been pointed out, you don't refer to triangles by an index, but by the coordinate positions of the triangles. Lemme give you an example. Check out the rotating triangle example on this page. I'll copy the code here.

Code:
attribute vec4 vertexPosition;

uniform mat4 modelMatrix;
uniform mat4 viewMatrix;
uniform mat4 projectionMatrix;
uniform float time;

const float PI = 3.1415926535897932384626433832795; //check out the number of digits of pie

mat4 rotateZ(float angle) {
  mat4 rotationMatrix;
  rotationMatrix[0] = vec4(cos(angle), sin(angle), 0, 0);
  rotationMatrix[1] = vec4(-sin(angle), cos(angle), 0, 0);
  rotationMatrix[2] = vec4(0, 0, 1, 0);
  rotationMatrix[3] = vec4(0, 0, 0, 1);
  return rotationMatrix;
}

void main() {
  float angleRadians = (time / 30.0) * PI / 180.0; //And check out this math
  mat4 rotatedModelMatrix = rotateZ(angleRadians) * modelMatrix;
  gl_Position = projectionMatrix * viewMatrix * rotatedModelMatrix * vertexPosition;
}

All these types are effectively 16-bit. Don't worry too much about how the details, but check the two lines I've commented. What you'll see is that we're dealing with irrational numbers. Pi has digits past the zero up to infinity.

So the math with pi will never be exactly accurate because we don't have all infinite digits of pi. We could make it less accurate by shortening it to just 3.14. Or just 3. We'd start to notice, though, if we made it that short. The triangle wouldn't rotate at a single smooth pace because we'd introduce errors that were greater than a pixel.

Does that make sense? When you start multiplying and dividing floating point numbers, the number of digits is unpredictable, or even infinite. That's why we call it X-bits of precision because we're saying "how close - how precise - is this math, because there will be inaccuracies." In this case, moving the triangle generates errors/inaccuracies smaller than a pixel, so it's not visible on a physical screen.

Second thing to point out, shaders don't just manipulate the triangles. A vertex shader is just one kind of shader. GPUs are pipelined, with rendering happening one phase at a time, and shaders only able to manipulate the data at that phase. So after vertex shaders, you have pixel shaders, which are manipulating color data. Here is an example.

Just like with the vertex shader, there will be errors, but the question is, are those errors visible on screen or to the human eye. The higher the precision, the more colors you can represent. Lower precision can create effects like color banding.

Colour_banding_example01.png

Here you can see how 8-bit color only gives us enough shades of reds for a very blocky gradient, but 24-bit color gives us enough for a very smooth transition from red to black. Practically speaking, actual pixel shaders will use more complex color representations, and have to deal with errors accumulating across shaders - both of which can make the effects of precision less than obvious.

But the other thing about FP32 - it's twice as much memory. Which not only doubles how much RAM your assets take up, but makes copying the objects around slower. Remember your limited memory bus - even if FP32 is just as fast as FP16 for all operations on the cores, it still has huge performance implications.

TL;DR: Precision is just that - how precise your numbers are. FP16 is so much faster than FP32, that it is the default choice. The consequences of precision aren't that functionality won't work, so much as will look less good.
 
Please refrain from targeted comments against another user. Use the report or ignore function instead. - meatbag, Volcanic Dynamo, xghost777
Oh God, ItWasMeantToBe19 is back on here huh? Wonderful, now they can proceed to constantly derail the thread with their incessant
"top tier" postings and insisting upon themself again.
 
Oh God, ItWasMeantToBe19 is back on here huh? Wonderful, now they can proceed to constantly derail the thread with their incessant
"top tier" postings and insisting upon themself again.
If you're not going to call out something specific someone says, but instead just trash a person generally, I suggest you either report the actions you think are out of line, or hit ignore.
 
and things constantly change, i have followed nate for over a decade, he would never speak on anything where he didnt check with multiple sources. but there are haters out there who have no sources who cant wait for moments like this.

Exactly. People have sources but those sources are also fallible and flawed people who can also have the rug pulled out from under them and as a result the information present can ultimately become outdated and/or falter as a result of internal changed plans that come as a surprise to everyone.

I'm quite certain of the plan, Q2 2024 announce/reveal and follow up Direct with launch blowout, nothing has changed as far as I'm aware. Really as it stands, the Direct scheduled for February has potentially been wiped.

Who knows, perhaps it just wasn't worth it at this point to do a partner Direct? Anything there in regards to Switch 1 ports can just as easily be drip fed out as they've been doing with their remaining upcoming first party exclusives.

So long as I don't end up hearing that the deadline was shifted and something catastrophic has occurred, I'm all good.
 
0
If you're not going to call out something specific someone says, but instead just trash a person generally, I suggest you either report the actions you think are out of line, or hit ignore.
ItWasMeantToBe19 has been so so rude to some of the important sources we have on here. So...
 
If you're not going to call out something specific someone says, but instead just trash a person generally, I suggest you either report the actions you think are out of line, or hit ignore.

I've had them on ignore for a while, just stating the obvious really at this point and being honest. They copped a ban for a reason and was generally quite rude and awful for a while in the thread beforehand.

The thread has been a lot better honestly in the period they were banned. I'd much rather higher tier postings than the troll-level tactics that were being employed just to stir the pot, it was rather low-level and added nothing to the discussions on here. It dragged out with pages of users back and forth arguing with them over the same points and info endlessly and they brigaded other threads with the same tactics.

They seem to really be here just to mess with people and, mind the language, shit-stir. Even on ignore I can tell when they're here because the mood changes like a click of a finger and the bickering begins.
 
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I've had them on ignore for a while, just stating the obvious really at this point. They copped a ban for a reason and was generally quite rude and awful for a while in the thread beforehand.

The thread has been a lot better honestly in the period they were banned.
Exactly and i dont want to get dramatic and deep but i come to this thread to get away from the real world or when im at work and just get excited, i dont need that negative hate, if i want that, ill go to twitter because that atm is a shitshow!
 
I've had them on ignore for a while, just stating the obvious really at this point and being honest. They copped a ban for a reason and was generally quite rude and awful for a while in the thread beforehand.
Their presence in the thread can only be regulated by moderation, which won't happen without reporting. Shit stirring is unlikely to help, that's all I'm saying.
 
Nate has been providing excellent info about the XBOX for the past month, and it would be interesting to know if that has delayed the date of the Direct. 😅

Be that as it may, a follow-up to the discussion on BC is coming.👇
 
@oldpuck hi can I ask you for something? How big would be Series S APU on 4nm if is 197mm2 on 7nm
I don't know that there is enough data to say - there aren't similar specced AMD GPUs on both nodes, and Zen 2 doesn't live on both process nodes. Going purely by advertised density, best case scenario is 130mm2. But that's as close to "made up number" as you can get.
 
never forget that nintendo tends to use the cheapest parts possible (ram, storage, etc...) and considering how switch 1 had the least expensive parts, why would they start going all out with switch 2? especially since switch 1 sold well regardless of how "weak" it was
It cost 257 to build the Switch back in 2017.
The latest raspberry pi has 16 gigs of ram and it goes for 150. The Retroids pocket 4 has 16 gigs of ram for 200 and it has UFS for faster along with Bluetooth 5.2. Even if you dont believe a word here at least try to get a feel of whats going outside of the market.


Edit: even if I am inaccurate then we can dispel the myth nintendo would take the cheapest part by bringing up the fact they were selling the Wii U at a lost at launch. As stated by reggie

 
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Yes.


No.

Two things. First, as has been pointed out, you don't refer to triangles by an index, but by the coordinate positions of the triangles. Lemme give you an example. Check out the rotating triangle example on this page. I'll copy the code here.

Code:
attribute vec4 vertexPosition;

uniform mat4 modelMatrix;
uniform mat4 viewMatrix;
uniform mat4 projectionMatrix;
uniform float time;

const float PI = 3.1415926535897932384626433832795; //check out the number of digits of pie

mat4 rotateZ(float angle) {
  mat4 rotationMatrix;
  rotationMatrix[0] = vec4(cos(angle), sin(angle), 0, 0);
  rotationMatrix[1] = vec4(-sin(angle), cos(angle), 0, 0);
  rotationMatrix[2] = vec4(0, 0, 1, 0);
  rotationMatrix[3] = vec4(0, 0, 0, 1);
  return rotationMatrix;
}

void main() {
  float angleRadians = (time / 30.0) * PI / 180.0; //And check out this math
  mat4 rotatedModelMatrix = rotateZ(angleRadians) * modelMatrix;
  gl_Position = projectionMatrix * viewMatrix * rotatedModelMatrix * vertexPosition;
}

All these types are effectively 16-bit. Don't worry too much about how the details, but check the two lines I've commented. What you'll see is that we're dealing with irrational numbers. Pi has digits past the zero up to infinity.

So the math with pi will never be exactly accurate because we don't have all infinite digits of pi. We could make it less accurate by shortening it to just 3.14. Or just 3. We'd start to notice, though, if we made it that short. The triangle wouldn't rotate at a single smooth pace because we'd introduce errors that were greater than a pixel.

Does that make sense? When you start multiplying and dividing floating point numbers, the number of digits is unpredictable, or even infinite. That's why we call it X-bits of precision because we're saying "how close - how precise - is this math, because there will be inaccuracies." In this case, moving the triangle generates errors/inaccuracies smaller than a pixel, so it's not visible on a physical screen.

Second thing to point out, shaders don't just manipulate the triangles. A vertex shader is just one kind of shader. GPUs are pipelined, with rendering happening one phase at a time, and shaders only able to manipulate the data at that phase. So after vertex shaders, you have pixel shaders, which are manipulating color data. Here is an example.

Just like with the vertex shader, there will be errors, but the question is, are those errors visible on screen or to the human eye. The higher the precision, the more colors you can represent. Lower precision can create effects like color banding.

Colour_banding_example01.png

Here you can see how 8-bit color only gives us enough shades of reds for a very blocky gradient, but 24-bit color gives us enough for a very smooth transition from red to black. Practically speaking, actual pixel shaders will use more complex color representations, and have to deal with errors accumulating across shaders - both of which can make the effects of precision less than obvious.

But the other thing about FP32 - it's twice as much memory. Which not only doubles how much RAM your assets take up, but makes copying the objects around slower. Remember your limited memory bus - even if FP32 is just as fast as FP16 for all operations on the cores, it still has huge performance implications.

TL;DR: Precision is just that - how precise your numbers are. FP16 is so much faster than FP32, that it is the default choice. The consequences of precision aren't that functionality won't work, so much as will look less good.
tfw you learn more at famiboards than at school
 
Still think that window of late 2024/early 2025 is in play. The coming FY is the only safe bet, imo.
You said the reveal was in march, would'nt launching in the holidays be a lot of time from reveal to release? or could that mean that they announce it later than march as you previously stated?
 
You said the reveal was in march, would'nt launching in the holidays be a lot of time from reveal to release? or could that mean that they announce it later than march as you previously stated?
March to Q4 wouldn't be that long historically. PS5 was announced in April 2020 and released in November, and the Series X was revealed in December of 2019. It took 11 months for the Series X to come out. March to November for Nintendo is fine and normal.
 
I'm here to ask this again (and again)
Do you guys think that we will get a Full reveal on March, or just a small first trailer like Switch?
Trailer, gonna be a surprise drop on YouTube, don’t see why they would change anything when that worked perfectly the first time.
 
Microsoft: *takes "Direct" name from Nintendo and applies it to their own presentations*

Unreal: Hold my Mountain Dew
Frankly, I really don't understand the marketing value of doing this. This is silly. It doesn't cost anything to come up with another name, and there's nothing to be gained by showing that you can't come up with one.

If the rumors are true, I think Nintendo should try to push any of the potential portable Xbox as soon as possible. Microsoft is able to sell a powerful handheld in the same price range (or lower) than Nintendo and I think they could reveal that at the end of the year for a release in 2026.
Microsoft is perfectly capable of selling a hybrid console at a loss. That has been its modus operandi to date. However, perhaps Microsoft feels that after almost 25 years on the market, this aggressive strategy has lasted long enough.

Even though, since the very first Gameboy, Nintendo has shown that being powerful isn't enough to win, I can see Sony and Microsoft coming to seriously heckle the Switch on its own turf, and I think that's a serious threat. So yes, Nintendo has its overpowered IPs. But it also had them on the N64 and Gamecube, and that wasn't enough.
 
Frankly, I really don't understand the marketing value of doing this. This is silly. It doesn't cost anything to come up with another name, and there's nothing to be gained by showing that you can't come up with one.


Microsoft is perfectly capable of selling a hybrid console at a loss. That has been its modus operandi to date. However, perhaps Microsoft feels that after almost 25 years on the market, this aggressive strategy has lasted long enough.

Even though, since the very first Gameboy, Nintendo has shown that being powerful isn't enough to win, I can see Sony and Microsoft coming to seriously heckle the Switch on its own turf, and I think that's a serious threat. So yes, Nintendo has its overpowered IPs. But it also had them on the N64 and Gamecube, and that wasn't enough.
All of it depends on pricing, if Xbox and Sony come out with something that is too pricey people aren’t gonna buy it.

Sony has also been struggling a ton with first party releases. The PS5 has been extremely disappointing with its releases, and if this continues with a possible handheld people are going to pass.

Going to be very interesting though especially with new management at the helm for Nintendo. Of course they still operate traditionally but I feel as though they aren’t going to get cocky around serious competition from the other big 2.
 
Frankly, I really don't understand the marketing value of doing this. This is silly. It doesn't cost anything to come up with another name, and there's nothing to be gained by showing that you can't come up with one.
a weird take over the name. it's descriptive of what they talk about, the state of unreal engine and future improvements. it's also a developer oriented presentation, so it's not like the name needs to sell people
 
Frankly, I really don't understand the marketing value of doing this. This is silly. It doesn't cost anything to come up with another name, and there's nothing to be gained by showing that you can't come up with one.
Sony took it from State of the Union, Nintendo took it from Direct to Video.
¯⁠\⁠⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠⁠/⁠¯


Next thing we know, NG Switch will awaken a new era of Nintendo branding inspired by the Royal Christmas Message with the new Super Switch [Month] Message format and subsequent Opening of Playlament featuring the Neon Rod.
 
Please read this staff post before posting.

Furthermore, according to this follow-up post, all off-topic chat will be moderated.
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