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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

Mod uncle’s post regarding the camera was sparse. It doesn’t specify whether it’s front facing or rear. If the camera is on the backside, as many have pointed out it’s probably for some sort of AR feature(s). If front-facing, it could be for video chat, live streaming, eye/gesture tracking, and/or face ID (e.g., unlock Switch, select user profile, parental control). Qualcomm’s reference design got something similar:

Pt7cOU0.png


To protect the children, Nintendo might disable the camera via parental control. It’s also possible to use tensor cores to do face tracking, turning everyone into a Mii, Villager, or Sportsmate to protect privacy (and avoid d*** pics). Nvidia offers the RTX AR SDK:

2-2.png


There are already commercial products utilizing the SDK (example):

ss_7e71c23088bc58be8d8e46d733dc038b9a11c2cf.1920x1080.jpg


Edit: Typo
 
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I think we regulars should be a bit more mean to the lurkers who post to see the hidden content.

Like ... introduce yourself, explain what you bring to the discussion.

What do the other regulars think?

;D

Hello, my name is Kackle. I am a lonely Donkey Kong fan who hasn't gotten a new game in almost a decade. I literally got a Switch just so I could play as Funky Kong in Tropical Freeze.

I bring absolutely nothing to the discussion. I'm just following along because I am a sucker for rumors and leaks.
 
Another reason I don't believe in a camera (or extensive chats between users or the miiverse coming back) is that Nintendo probably wants nothing to do with moderating user generated content, especially since it has become a touchy subject through the years and they still want to attract young children's parents.
 
Staff Post about reading Hidden Content
Hey everyone. We know that everyone is excited to get more news from Nintendo. The point of the Hide tags/posts is to keep certain information contained to our site, and not openly share it for the internet to see randomly. Certain users will have their reason for using these tags and we must respect that.

While we are always open to new members, we need to establish some expectations for all users. Going forward, people who post stating that they are specifically looking to read the hidden content will be threadbanned. Anyone looking to engage with this thread should be expected to contribute at least one post with their thoughts.

-Josh5890, Derachi, Irene
 
I hope StreetPass will come back.

I'm so glad to see people wanting StreetPass back 🥲
That was a big reason why I'd bring my 3DS with me everywhere. It was so fun turning it on and seeing all these people I had passed by during the day. I even met one of my closest friends thanks to StreetPassing with him every morning on our way to work, then writing to each other through it!
 
NG Switch is(well, could be) about a third of PS5. Maybe a little more.

But... DLSS 2.0's claimed performance boost is in the 3X range.

What. A. Coincidence!
 
Personally I think the Switch and probably whatever is next, is too fragile for Streetpass.

Plus I think the Switch would be at a huge risk or theft, especially at the moment.
 
Another reason I don't believe in a camera (or extensive chats between users or the miiverse coming back) is that Nintendo probably wants nothing to do with moderating user generated content, especially since it has become a touchy subject through the years and they still want to attract young children's parents.
I would say machine learning could handle that, but it's easier to just not have a camera, which would have limited usage anyway
 
Hi.
First , english is not my native language, so please be kind with me if my presentation is not perfect.
I use to be a long Time lurker, since gaming age board, as far i Can remember when i was in my twenties. I'm now 41 year old, with kids, but still pretty well informed on the video game market. I was a fully exclusive Nintendo player till the Wii Era. Now i have a Switch, a ps5 and a pc. So i have Access to all platforms. I am quite objective and dont like fanboy behavior. But in my Heart i still Root for Nintendo. 😉. I mostly a rpg player. I' m note fond of FPS or sport games. I Hope to enjoy the community.

I have a question for anyone informed with videogame developpement. How long is needed for a game to be ported from pc emulating the targeted spec of the systeme to the hardware dev kit. In other Words, how much Time do you need with the final hardware kit to fully complete the game developpement ? Because for the launch game I suppose that you never have the dev kit during the whole développement. I suppose it depends of the game but some ballpark

PS:even if my english writing is not that good. My Reading comprehension is way better. 😉
 
I would say machine learning could handle that, but it's easier to just not have a camera, which would have limited usage anyway
If the camera isn't really meant to be used on its own, and instead uses the data to improve the motion controls, then I could see it. But a camera for camera's sake like 3DS or DSi? I doubt it.
 
I have a question for anyone informed with videogame developpement. How long is needed for a game to be ported from pc emulating the targeted spec of the systeme to the hardware dev kit. In other Words, how much Time do you need with the final hardware kit to fully complete the game developpement ? Because for the launch game I suppose that you never have the dev kit during the whole développement. I suppose it depends of the game but some ballpark
that's a question with no answer because very game is different.

If the camera isn't really meant to be used on its own, and instead uses the data to improve the motion controls, then I could see it. But a camera for camera's sake like 3DS or DSi? I doubt it.
I thought about that too, but it would require people to have their dock set up in a certain way that may or may not be usable for the largest group. at least with the Wii sensor bar, they made it so it can be slapped anywhere
 
While we are always open to new members, we need to establish some expectations for all users. Going forward, people who post stating that they are specifically looking to read the hidden content will be threadbanned. Anyone looking to engage with this thread should be expected to contribute at least one post with their thoughts.

I’d suggest posters using the [ HIDE ] tag instead of [ REPLY ]. The latter requires the user to reply in order to view the post, leading to an influx of hello messages.

Edit: You’re all mostly lovely people, and it’s good to have more people posting. The suggestion is only to reduce forced participation.
 
Dammit Fami think bigger with your switch 2 cart designs!

Insteas of a tab I want switch 2 carts to have the same width and length but also incorporate depth, specifically like a wedge shape, also make the carts yellow so they look like little wedges of cheese.
 
You would have thought Nintendo would have learned from the 3DS AR 'features'.

I don't get why they would waste any time on a feature like AR, it adds nothing to the Switch gaming experience. Or any gaming experience, really.
I think AR is great for gaming, it's just not right for any handheld medium. Quest 3, for example, has MR as it's main selling point. AR is great, just not if it's not on an HMD. Nintendo did experiment with HMDs with labo VR, but that was terrible cardboard VR so I doubt it was a positive test. Pokemon Go tested AR too, but the selling point for that wasn't really AR and there's too many systems to optimize for (variation in cameras, video quality, lidar/depth sensor availablity, etc.)
If Nintendo ever gets into XR HMDs, I think they'll try to get into AR again, but it's nothing but a gimmick on handhelds which is why nobody cared for it on 3ds and nobody really plays Pokemon go for the AR. I doubt they're touching that industry any time soon though after labo, especially with the safety issues for the under 13 age group.
On the offchance they do, it'll just be like Apple developing ARKit for phones or Valve working on proton for Linux. It'll be a framework that nobody utilizes until it's absolutely necessary for a future device, then it gets good adoption. And they don't build those because they need to be good now, they build them so they can keep building later when they're needed. All of this is pure speculation though.
 
Hi.
First , english is not my native language, so please be kind with me if my presentation is not perfect.
I use to be a long Time lurker, since gaming age board, as far i Can remember when i was in my twenties. I'm now 41 year old, with kids, but still pretty well informed on the video game market. I was a fully exclusive Nintendo player till the Wii Era. Now i have a Switch, a ps5 and a pc. So i have Access to all platforms. I am quite objective and dont like fanboy behavior. But in my Heart i still Root for Nintendo. 😉. I mostly a rpg player. I' m note fond of FPS or sport games. I Hope to enjoy the community.

I have a question for anyone informed with videogame developpement. How long is needed for a game to be ported from pc emulating the targeted spec of the systeme to the hardware dev kit. In other Words, how much Time do you need with the final hardware kit to fully complete the game developpement ? Because for the launch game I suppose that you never have the dev kit during the whole développement. I suppose it depends of the game but some ballpark

PS:even if my english writing is not that good. My Reading comprehension is way better. 😉
I'm not well-versed in game development, however I can respond to this with a very disappointing answer. "How long is a piece of string?"

Some games can be ported fairly easily, some can take upwards of a year if it requires being ported onto lower-end hardware. Sometimes the hardware is the issue, sometimes it's the game that's the technical nightmare. You can expect a fair chunk of games to be ported, however it's not a set-in-stone rule on what games, how many, and how good the port itself is.
 
In addition to what @Concernt said regarding Labo, Pokemon Go+, and various elements of the Joy Con, remember that the NSO N64 controller's patent was found before its reveal.
There were some patents of a hybrid system before the Switch launched too didn't it? Or perhaps I'm misremembering since that was a long time ago
 
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This isn’t Era.
Yeah I know, my point is when the actual source of what we're talking about is publicly available on another site there's no reason for us to be discussing it in hide tags. Hide tags are for discussing information that we don't want to be publicly dispersed, stuff that's already on Era and making the rounds elsewhere is already being dispersed so there's no real point for us to try and hide it too.
 
I thought about that too, but it would require people to have their dock set up in a certain way
Nah, I'm pretty adamantly opposed to that concept. I'm saying that it might be a matter of the controllers providing the camera data in TV mode via their own, internal cameras, and the console providing it in handheld mode. It wouldn't be any different to how you can use gyro aiming in both TV and handheld mode- some games in handheld mode use the console's internal gyro sensor, while in TV mode they depend on the controllers.

A user-facing camera is one thing I would be downright opposed to. A user facing camera you have to specifically position in the dock so it can see you? Ewwwwwww.
 
Dammit Fami think bigger with your switch 2 cart designs!

Insteas of a tab I want switch 2 carts to have the same width and length but also incorporate depth, specifically like a wedge shape, also make the carts yellow so they look like little wedges of cheese.
Double thick in the top half to facilitate double-stacked ROM chips, yes please!
 
This is my concern. Granted camera tech is much better now, but a Switch camera will be a mass produced low end phone camera which will be compared unfavorably and will age poorly If the device is to last 6 plus years

I much prefer the AR camera be packed in with a software sold separately

Switch is a gaming device first and foremost and AR.games are at best gimmicks and curiosities or done much better on phones where people can upgrade every few years

A dedicated device like the Switch would be way better for AR than phones. High end phones may have better cameras, but they're overkill for AR (you don't need a 50 Mpx camera to do AR on a ~2 Mpx screen), but most importantly software can't be built with those cameras in mind, because not everyone owns a high-end phone. Phone camera set-ups have a huge amount of variability, and software like Pokemon Go has to be built for the lowest common denominator.

Depth estimation is a particularly important factor here. Even on iOS, where developers can optimise around a much smaller set of hardware configurations, Apple only includes its Lidar depth sensors (actually ToF sensors, but whatever) on the Pro models, so software obviously can't be built to require them. Other phones use stereo depth estimation, but with mismatched cameras positioned closely together, the quality isn't great, and it's mostly geared towards fake bokeh portrait photos rather than AR.

A pair of two cheap 1080p cameras on the back of Switch 2 would provide better depth estimation than almost any phone, at much lower cost. Part of the reason would simply be the use of matched cameras much farther apart than is feasible on phones. The more important part, though, is the tensor core performance of T239 and Nvidia's expertise in depth estimation from the automotive side of their business. Most stereo disparity estimation uses a relatively simple mathematical approach which is easy to implement but tends to be noisy and get caught up on small details, which is actually implemented in hardware on the OFA on T239 and other Nvidia chips.

If you've got lots of ML performance, though, which T239 has, you can do much better by using a neural network to perform stereo estimation. Nvidia have been researching this for years, with this paper from 2018 describing a technique that's usable on the Jetson TX2 (even in handheld mode, T239 should have at least 10x the ML performance of the TX2 thanks to its tensor cores). Nintendo could do much better, though.

For one thing, every use case of stereo disparity estimation I've come across (including this one from Nvidia) takes in a full RGB images. This seems sensible, but cameras don't actually take full RGB images. Each pixel on a camera has either a red, green or blue filter in front of it, arranged in grids of four pixels typically with two green, one red and one blue (known as a Bayer pattern) so if you have, let's say a 20 Mpx camera, it actually has 10 million green pixels, 5 million red pixels and 5 million blue pixels. To get a full colour image with RGB for each pixel, software (or hardware) interpolates between the different colours, with a technique called debayering or demosaicing. Further software then applies noise reduction before displaying the picture or sending it on elsewhere.

The issue is that the process of debayering and noise reduction just makes the job of a neural network worse. The debayering step is just simple interpolation, so it's adding data without any of it being actually useful to the neural network. The neural network is getting 3x as much data, but no more usable information. The noise reduction step then potentially destroys information which might be useful to the neural network, so a debayered and denoised image is requiring a neural network to process much more data, but get less usable information out of it, than just consuming the raw sensor data. ML based solutions are very good at extracting detail from raw camera data. I use software called DxO PureRaw for my photography, and it produces far better results than any conventional debayering and denoising software I've ever used.

By single-sourcing a pair of camera modules, Nintendo and Nvidia could create a neural stereo depth estimator based on raw sensor data from cameras with known noise characteristics, which puts them in a better place than almost any other AR product. Furthermore, I would expect there are significant further benefits to be found from moving from a purely spatial approach to depth estimation to a spatio-temporal one. Just like DLSS 2 produces much better and more stable results than purely spatial upscalers by incorporating data from previous frames, depth estimation would benefit significantly by incorporating temporal data. I've seen papers which use optical flow as part of depth estimation, but no ML-based implementations that use a temporal approach such as a recurrent neural net. It seems like a pretty obvious win to me; feed in data from previous frame(s) along with gyroscope and accelerometer data to determine movement (potentially with optical flow as well) and you should get a more stable output that's better at resolving small details.

Another big factor is just the performance of Switch 2 relative to its screen resolution. Even with a bump to 1080p, the performance of Switch 2 per pixel would be way higher than, say the Apple Vision Pro, which is more powerful but has to push displays with 10 times as many pixels, and at a higher frame rate to boot. This allows for more impressive graphics, but also makes it easier to do things like estimate lighting conditions within the scene so that rendered elements feel like they're actually in the environment and not crudely photoshopped on top. This was one of the things that journalists were impressed by when demoing the Apple Vision Pro, and it's also a problem that's well suited to machine learning.

Finally, and most importantly, a Switch 2 with AR capabilities would have Nintendo developing games for it. They've shown how interested in AR they still are with Labo, not to mention how they can bring new things to the table. I'd be exited to see what Nintendo's developers could do with class-leading AR hardware.
 
I think AR is great for gaming, it's just not right for any handheld medium. Quest 3, for example, has MR as it's main selling point. AR is great, just not if it's not on an HMD. Nintendo did experiment with HMDs with labo VR, but that was terrible cardboard VR so I doubt it was a positive test. Pokemon Go tested AR too, but the selling point for that wasn't really AR and there's too many systems to optimize for (variation in cameras, video quality, lidar/depth sensor availablity, etc.)
If Nintendo ever gets into XR HMDs, I think they'll try to get into AR again, but it's nothing but a gimmick on handhelds which is why nobody cared for it on 3ds and nobody really plays Pokemon go for the AR. I doubt they're touching that industry any time soon though after labo, especially with the safety issues for the under 13 age group.
On the offchance they do, it'll just be like Apple developing ARKit for phones or Valve working on proton for Linux. It'll be a framework that nobody utilizes until it's absolutely necessary for a future device, then it gets good adoption. And they don't build those because they need to be good now, they build them so they can keep building later when they're needed. All of this is pure speculation though.
I cannot comment on AR in the context of it on a VR headset since I have never used VR for longer than 5 minutes. I could never imagine AR taking off on a handheld, it's just not immersive enough. Waving a little rectangle around does not augmented reality make.
 
This new leaker seems to know too many things in too many directions which gives me a weird feeling. If it's true they had real info in the past it's definitely notable but we're talking Sega projects, SE projects, Nintendo reveals, hardware... That's a lot at once.
 
Nintendo should make a deal with Square Enix to make Dragon Quest XII: The Flames of Fate a Drake exclusive, given how much the Switch dominates the console market in Japan and that Dragon Quest is the most popular JRPG in Japan its a match made in heaven. Give Square an offer they can´t refuse and Nintendo will have gained their first third party exclusive to launch Drake hugely in Japan.
 
When the Switch was revealed I personally like that Nintendo backpedaled on cramming extraneous features in the console body and shifted those to the controllers and peripherals instead. It still allowed experimental games like Ring Fit and Mario Kart Live to exist while keeping the main premise of the console simple, and useful features like gyro could be used in any game since it's accessible in all three modes.

Though I suppose it's inevitable that they would start adding these back in. Like how the Game Boy Camera transformed from an accessory into a built-in feature of the DSi and 3DS. It would also help further differentiate it from the current Switch.

I think a larger 8 inch 1080p screen and possible AR would open up more tabletop specific experiences, since there's a larger canvas and more options.

* Hidden text: cannot be quoted. *
Hidden content is only available for registered users. Sharing it outside of Famiboards is subject to moderation.
 
Hidden content is only available for registered users. Sharing it outside of Famiboards is subject to moderation.
 
Nintendo should make a deal with Square Enix to make Dragon Quest XII: The Flames of Fate a Drake exclusive, given how much the Switch dominates the console market in Japan and that Dragon Quest is the most popular JRPG in Japan its a match made in heaven. Give Square an offer they can´t refuse and Nintendo will have gained their first third party exclusive to launch Drake hugely in Japan.
Isn't that what people hate about Sony doing?
 
I work at retail in France, and today we received "new" Smash amiibos (Link, Luigi and DK so far). They are the same as before, but the back of the box is different, a lot more neutral (no pictures and no mention of a specific game or console).

I absolutely don't know if the Smash rumours are true (I wish), but some talked about amiibos earlier, and it's technically hardware soooo…
 
I work at retail in France, and today we received "new" Smash amiibos (Link, Luigi and DK so far). They are the same as before, but the back of the box is different, a lot more neutral (no pictures and no mention of a specific game or console).

I absolutely don't know if the Smash rumours are true (I wish), but some talked about amiibos earlier, and it's technically hardware soooo…
Well I certainly think it's relevant! They've removed console references on Smash series Amiibo. Even though they only HAVE one extant console at the moment. Now THAT is something to chew on.

Smash Ultimate Day One Patch Baybee

(I wouldn't expect any changes other than 4K.)
 
I'd love to go back in time and leak pre-release that the Switch version of Skyrim looked and ran close to the base PS4 version. Back then people didn't even think Skyrim was coming to Switch despite the reveal trailer, lol.
 
I work at retail in France, and today we received "new" Smash amiibos (Link, Luigi and DK so far). They are the same as before, but the back of the box is different, a lot more neutral (no pictures and no mention of a specific game or console).

I absolutely don't know if the Smash rumours are true (I wish), but some talked about amiibos earlier, and it's technically hardware soooo…
I think this might be releated to the Luigi Mansion 2 remaster, and maybe Tears of the Kingdom DLC and the rumored Donkey Kong game imo.
 
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I work at retail in France, and today we received "new" Smash amiibos (Link, Luigi and DK so far). They are the same as before, but the back of the box is different, a lot more neutral (no pictures and no mention of a specific game or console).

I absolutely don't know if the Smash rumours are true (I wish), but some talked about amiibos earlier, and it's technically hardware soooo…
You got me thinking this is for TOTK dlc, Luigi’s mansion dark moon port and the new DK game lol.
 
have a question for anyone informed with videogame developpement. How long is needed for a game to be ported from pc emulating the targeted spec of the systeme to the hardware dev kit. In other Words, how much Time do you need with the final hardware kit to fully complete the game developpement ? Because for the launch game I suppose that you never have the dev kit during the whole développement. I suppose it depends of the game but some ballpark
Like other have mentioned it really depends on the game. But also what out of the gate dev features the new platform supports. If this new Nintendo console has the same tools but better in the backend or even better has some form of compatibility mode, I would say it will take way less time to port most games and we could see a high number of recent releases from on very early point of this new consoles live.

Like EA for example would not have to struggle to make their Engine run on the new platform anymore because they can just take their work for Switch and optimize it or other Third parties like Platinum or Capcom already had their tools more or less ready for Nintendo.

In very easy terms, if an engine supports the Switch 2 then also games running in that engine technically run on the Switch 2. This is also already true for Switch (even at launch when there was already Unity and Unreal support) though of course usually you need time for optimizing and sometimes a game is just to much for Switch to port it without any major adjustments. Though this time while Switch 2 being more powerful, it helps that software wise it will be an evolution to Switch, so devs will be already familiar with the tools and things could take less time because of that.
 
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Please read this staff post before posting.

Furthermore, according to this follow-up post, all off-topic chat will be moderated.
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