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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

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HockeyBird said:
Just keep pushing forward Fam. We'll get there eventually

Mario_Endless_Stairs.gif
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Let's speed this up

Backwards-Long-Jump.gif
 
LiC said:
3: Comparing to another listing for an RTX 4080 test board sent to the same company, confirming a 128-bit memory bus for T239 and also showing that test boards were being sent for some products even after they were publicly released. Clarifying why the original tweet probably wasn't supposed to be about about the process node anyway.
Click to expand...

So, another piece of NS2 puzzle is reveled? 128-bit memory bus on docked, right? from a number like that, what can be expect for Handled mode? 64 Bit, like Rog Ally, 88 like Steam Deck or higher?
 
LiC said:
Carpa is such an oddball term to show up that I'm not entirely convinced it's a codename. If it weren't for the "CARPA X1" which makes it look like part of the product name with a revision number, I'd say it could be some unrelated part of the shipping description. But it's a fun word so I'm going to keep using it to refer to the maybe-devkits.


These shipments are all infrequent and often single-digit quantity, never more than double-digit. Whatever they're for is not part of a supply chain or manufacturing process. I think that RMA/defect analysis is a possible reason for some of the late shipments of already released products. Other more current products could be sent for validation, or use in software development, writing automated tests, who knows. But the test boards and maybe-devkit units being sent are already as "complete" as they're going to get when they're loaned out to the India office.
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Did you try searching for the codename you know but cant post about?
 
BDGAME said:
So, another piece of NS2 puzzle is reveled? 128-bit memory bus on docked, right? from a number like that, what can be expect for Handled mode? 64 Bit, like Rog Ally, 88 like Steam Deck or higher?
Click to expand...

AFAIK, the BUS will always be 128-bit. It's just a matter or lowering the RAM clock when using it in handheld mode (which will give you different bandwidth numbers)
 
BDGAME said:
So, another piece of NS2 puzzle is reveled? 128-bit memory bus on docked, right? from a number like that, what can be expect for Handled mode? 64 Bit, like Rog Ally, 88 like Steam Deck or higher?
Click to expand...
Like @Kise Ryota mentioned, the bus width won't change in handheld. But I also want to make sure credit's given where it's due: Thraktor determined that T239 would have a 128-bit bus back in March 2022.
 
GigaUltraMoon said:
In the wake of that you'll get frequent off-topic conversations since - let's be real - this is more of a general hangout thread than a subject-specific one
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Respectfully, I take a little umbrage at someone who has been a forum member for 6 weeks deciding what is and isn't a hangout thread. Especially when the context is long term members saying, "for the last six weeks, things have gotten out of hand in here"

You say "we haven't heard much since the gigaleak" and you're using "we" pretty broadly. If you heard anything from the Nvidia hack last year you almost definitely heard it from me, or Thraktor, or LiC, or Dakhil or Look over There or fwd-bwd or any of the other dozen or so technically minded posters who spent six months slowly dissecting the leaks to find correlations. You've walked into the room where it happens, start talking over the people doing the work, while loudly asking why you haven't heard anything lately.

I have no problem with this thread being loosely on topic. I like it that way. But as the number of members rises, either it needs to stop being the place that long time members do the thing that the thread was intended to do or it needs to start being a little more disciplined than it has been. It's just a scaling thing, a single forum thread can't accommodate all future nintendo discussion.

When LiC posted the shipping information, it was the next step in the investigative process that lots of folks here are hungry for. It's the same slow process that found the Linux drivers, that hunted down the likely memory configuration, that discovered the NAND setup for game cards, that located the File Decompression Engine. It's how we know that the Indian division of Nvidia does Electrical Validation and contracts with Siliconus. It's just given us a series of product codes and names that can be used to continue to search in previous records that might have been missed.

All I'm asking is that if you're having an awesome discussion about Smash that is so healthy it spans pages and pages and pages over the course of multiple days, then maybe that conversation is healthy enough for a thread of it's own! Maybe a lot of Famifolk who don't stalk the hardware thread would want to contribute! And maybe recognizing that's happening would be an awesome way to let the detective work that is the exciting bit of hanging around in this thread - that magical moment when something new gets discovered, analyzed, and locked down - happen more effectively.

I don't wanna scold, if people want to hang out here, I say let them. But if there are ten pages about Smash, and one post about hardware, and I missed the hardware post, all I'm saying is maybe the ratio of hang to on-topic conversation is a little out of hand.
 
oldpuck said:
Respectfully, I take a little umbrage at someone who has been a forum member for 6 weeks deciding what is and isn't a hangout thread. Especially when the context is long term members saying, "for the last six weeks, things have gotten out of hand in here"

You say "we haven't heard much since the gigaleak" and you're using "we" pretty broadly. If you heard anything from the Nvidia hack last year you almost definitely heard it from me, or Thraktor, or LiC, or Dakhil or Look over There or fwd-bwd or any of the other dozen or so technically minded posters who spent six months slowly dissecting the leaks to find correlations. You've walked into the room where it happens, start talking over the people doing the work, while loudly asking why you haven't heard anything lately.

I have no problem with this thread being loosely on topic. I like it that way. But as the number of members rises, either it needs to stop being the place that long time members do the thing that the thread was intended to do or it needs to start being a little more disciplined than it has been. It's just a scaling thing, a single forum thread can't accommodate all future nintendo discussion.

When LiC posted the shipping information, it was the next step in the investigative process that lots of folks here are hungry for. It's the same slow process that found the Linux drivers, that hunted down the likely memory configuration, that discovered the NAND setup for game cards, that located the File Decompression Engine. It's how we know that the Indian division of Nvidia does Electrical Validation and contracts with Siliconus. It's just given us a series of product codes and names that can be used to continue to search in previous records that might have been missed.

All I'm asking is that if you're having an awesome discussion about Smash that is so healthy it spans pages and pages and pages over the course of multiple days, then maybe that conversation is healthy enough for a thread of it's own! Maybe a lot of Famifolk who don't stalk the hardware thread would want to contribute! And maybe recognizing that's happening would be an awesome way to let the detective work that is the exciting bit of hanging around in this thread - that magical moment when something new gets discovered, analyzed, and locked down - happen more effectively.

I don't wanna scold, if people want to hang out here, I say let them. But if there are ten pages about Smash, and one post about hardware, and I missed the hardware post, all I'm saying is maybe the ratio of hang to on-topic conversation is a little out of hand.
Click to expand...
Yes, that was perhaps more than a bit dismissive and too much in the now without considering the length of time that passed so I apologise for that, and I'll personally make more of the effort to keep up with your discussions in the spirit of their technical contexts

p.s. You really aren't missing out on much not playing Smash to be perfectly honest
 
BDGAME said:
So, another piece of NS2 puzzle is reveled? 128-bit memory bus on docked, right? from a number like that, what can be expect for Handled mode? 64 Bit, like Rog Ally, 88 like Steam Deck or higher?
Click to expand...
Kise Ryota said:
AFAIK, the BUS will always be 128-bit. It's just a matter or lowering the RAM clock when using it in handheld mode (which will give you different bandwidth numbers)
Click to expand...
LiC said:
Like @Kise Ryota mentioned, the bus width won't change in handheld. But I also want to make sure credit's given where it's due: Thraktor determined that T239 would have a 128-bit bus back in March 2022.
Click to expand...

The short term value of this find is that is just that it runs counter to the "maybe T239 was cancelled or reworked" theory which crops up periodically. Since this manifest confirms this technical detail discovered 18 months ago, has dates up to 5 months, and still uses the T239 name. Since it also incidentally lines up with previous hints of tape-out/sampling, it is a big weight on the "T239's design was basically locked by the time it leaked, that chip and all we assumed about it is the chip we're getting"

Medium term, it's new data that can be pushed into search engines to see what else can be correlated and scrounged up.
 
GigaUltraMoon said:
Yes, that was perhaps more than a bit dismissive and too much in the now without considering the length of time that passed so I apologise for that, and I'll personally make more of the effort to keep up with your discussions in the spirit of their technical contexts
Click to expand...
You're good. When I said respectfully, I meant it.

Friend, I love hanging out here and I don't wanna be a scold. Just trying to keep the thread healthy, which occasionally means being the whiner. :)
 
oldpuck said:
You're good. When I said respectfully, I meant it.

Friend, I love hanging out here and I don't wanna be a scold. Just trying to keep the thread healthy, which occasionally means being the whiner. :)
Click to expand...
Honestly? Just scold away if you have to, people can take it, and often enough will benefit from it
 
0
oldpuck said:
Respectfully, I take a little umbrage at someone who has been a forum member for 6 weeks deciding what is and isn't a hangout thread. Especially when the context is long term members saying, "for the last six weeks, things have gotten out of hand in here"

You say "we haven't heard much since the gigaleak" and you're using "we" pretty broadly. If you heard anything from the Nvidia hack last year you almost definitely heard it from me, or Thraktor, or LiC, or Dakhil or Look over There or fwd-bwd or any of the other dozen or so technically minded posters who spent six months slowly dissecting the leaks to find correlations. You've walked into the room where it happens, start talking over the people doing the work, while loudly asking why you haven't heard anything lately.

I have no problem with this thread being loosely on topic. I like it that way. But as the number of members rises, either it needs to stop being the place that long time members do the thing that the thread was intended to do or it needs to start being a little more disciplined than it has been. It's just a scaling thing, a single forum thread can't accommodate all future nintendo discussion.

When LiC posted the shipping information, it was the next step in the investigative process that lots of folks here are hungry for. It's the same slow process that found the Linux drivers, that hunted down the likely memory configuration, that discovered the NAND setup for game cards, that located the File Decompression Engine. It's how we know that the Indian division of Nvidia does Electrical Validation and contracts with Siliconus. It's just given us a series of product codes and names that can be used to continue to search in previous records that might have been missed.

All I'm asking is that if you're having an awesome discussion about Smash that is so healthy it spans pages and pages and pages over the course of multiple days, then maybe that conversation is healthy enough for a thread of it's own! Maybe a lot of Famifolk who don't stalk the hardware thread would want to contribute! And maybe recognizing that's happening would be an awesome way to let the detective work that is the exciting bit of hanging around in this thread - that magical moment when something new gets discovered, analyzed, and locked down - happen more effectively.

I don't wanna scold, if people want to hang out here, I say let them. But if there are ten pages about Smash, and one post about hardware, and I missed the hardware post, all I'm saying is maybe the ratio of hang to on-topic conversation is a little out of hand.
Click to expand...
You’re being generous with “little”, I’ve tapped out of the thread because I can’t keep up at all.
 
Stephen said:
To me it's an issue of too many people treating this thread as a chatroom instead of practicing more proper forum etiquette. I can understand being daunted by something like 10 new pages to read but it should be common courtesy to at least skim the last few pages before asking what people are talking about. Think about posting for posterity.
Click to expand...
I post for today! I post for the now! I post for the people, not for the onlookers!

Post to show the post in your heart, not merely to post for the sake of posting!

Though on hardware, I've had cooling on my mind. Does anyone have any thoughts? Honestly I think they knocked it out of the park with the original Nintendo Switch and are unlikely to change, a metal midplate thermally connecting everything, with air channels formed with it and the backplate, through a blower style fan and out through a heat sink connected to the SOC with a heat pipe. How can they really improve on that? It's already designed in such a way it can, at times, run completely passively. Would a vapour chamber even help?

Assuming a 4nm chip, they wouldn't NEED a cooling system any larger.
 
GigaUltraMoon said:
Just gonna say it, so many types of linear game for the most part are bloody woeful and are relics from the time movement on screen could only cover from left to right and up or down, which is why they seem to be more popular with elderly gamers (born ~1985 or earlier)

Nintendo's open-world Zelda formula is something that should keep being built up on whether it's true open-world or just open-zone to the point you may as well have been sucked into the screen because they've tapped into something genuinely special
Click to expand...

vlcsnap-2021-05-16-23h34m10s989.jpg
 
sometimes it's very difficult in this thread to see if there are a bunch of posts I missed and if anything has actualyl happened lol
 
Cuzizkool said:
Would a die shrink from 5 to 3nm even have the energy/heat efficiency to allow a Switch2 Lite? Or enough performance boost to allow a Pro revision?
Click to expand...
For reference, check the charts found here. (edit: or here, because this one includes N7->N5)
Not enough for a Pro-type revision*.
Efficiency improvement could be enough for selling a Lite, but the bigger question is whether or not it's financially worthwhile for such a shrink anytime soon.

*the eagle eyed reader should then wonder 'so what's your thought on PS5 Pro then with presumably one node's worth of improvement?'
I throw my hands up in the air and respond with, 'it's probably a furnace, ginormous, or a mix of the two'.
 
P4bl0 said:
The reason why number 9 is considered as an unlucky number in Japan is because number 9 is “苦” in Chinese character. The meaning of “苦” is as follows:

・”苦” means “suffer” in Japanese and we pronounce it as “ku” in Japanese

Since number 9 is considered as unlucky number, many hospitals don’t have the room number including number 9 considered for patients wouldn’t remind of any pain from suffering in Japan.


Anyway MK7 and 8 were the only numbered titles, they might easily go back to non numbered titles to avoid confusion like Double Dash, Super Mario Kart etc
Click to expand...
But we have Mario Party 9.
 
If they have a node shrink it T239 then it isn't T239 anymore. Just like Mariko and Erista have different code names.
 
justanotherperson said:
If so, could be a launch title/launch window (1 month after Mario)
Click to expand...
I don't expect Mario at launch, but Ringfit having an installment at or soon after launch could be huge. Apparently it's gigantic in China, too, and has sold extremely well all-around. I could definitely see the new one being Next Gen Exclusive to make use of the updated controllers and the "New Ringfit Adventure" Ring-Con 2.

I might even posit that this implies improved motion controls, if one of the launch window games is exercise based.

I could see the reveal trailer now:

Opens, Metroid Prime 4 on a TV, zoom in, zoom out, incredible detail. New logo and sound effect, the player gets up, enters the frame, attaches the Joy-Con 2 to the console and slides it out to go play it elsewhere, giving us our first look at the console, dock, controllers and grip.

Next scene, Baldur's Gate 3 on the train. Next scene, new 3D Mario being played by Nintendo Karen in her penthouse. Short montage of backwards compatible games like TOTK, Ultimate and Mario Kart 8. Brief shot of a brand new Mario Kart with absurd lighting.

Hard cut, back to a living room, now the Joy-Con 2 are on full display, being used to control something with motion, then slid into Ring-Con 2 and New Ring Fit starts, brief shot of the new Home Menu.

Back to montage of every game so far plus third parties, logo appears again, everyone goes "SUPER NINTENDO SWITCH", end. "March 2024”

Presentation announced for January in a press release later that week.
 
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I recall that Nate mentioned the Samsung 8N a long time ago.
famiboards.com

Switch 2's DLSS implementation code has been stolen/leaked from NVidia

there's the MX570 with has 2048 cores. just slap some cpus on it It's also the same as the 3050m! So that seems to be a rough baseline of what kind of level of performance we might be able to expect (obviously it won't be a perfect match, given the myriad of other hardware factors involved such...
famiboards.com famiboards.com
 
oracion said:
I recall that Nate mentioned the Samsung 8N a long time ago.
famiboards.com

Switch 2's DLSS implementation code has been stolen/leaked from NVidia

there's the MX570 with has 2048 cores. just slap some cpus on it It's also the same as the 3050m! So that seems to be a rough baseline of what kind of level of performance we might be able to expect (obviously it won't be a perfect match, given the myriad of other hardware factors involved such...
famiboards.com famiboards.com
Click to expand...
If anything physically existed in June 2021, it was prototypes/testbeds using Orin, which is 8nm.

I'm way over litigating the process node question (or the saga of bad 2021-2022 information), though. The recent finds were introduced by a tweet that irrelevantly threw in a claim about the node, but they don't actually have anything to do with it. And they're actually interesting.
 
oldpuck said:
If you’re conversation about a future game has gone on for more than three or four posts, please stop.

I don’t know a goddamn thing about Smash and plowing through a dozen pages about a video game I’ve never played makes it hard to follow the hardware conversation that is actually the purpose of this thread.
Click to expand...
this-deathmonkeyxl.gif
 
Concernt said:
I don't expect Mario at launch, but Ringfit having an installment at or soon after launch could be huge. Apparently it's gigantic in China, too, and has sold extremely well all-around. I could definitely see the new one being Next Gen Exclusive to make use of the updated controllers and the "New Ringfit Adventure" Ring-Con 2.

I might even posit that this implies improved motion controls, if one of the launch window games is exercise based.

I could see the reveal trailer now:

Opens, Metroid Prime 4 on a TV, zoom in, zoom out, incredible detail. New logo and sound effect, the player gets up, enters the frame, attaches the Joy-Con 2 to the console and slides it out to go play it elsewhere, giving us our first look at the console, dock, controllers and grip.

Next scene, Baldur's Gate 3 on the train. Next scene, new 3D Mario being played by Nintendo Karen in her penthouse. Short montage of backwards compatible games like TOTK, Ultimate and Mario Kart 8. Brief shot of a brand new Mario Kart with absurd lighting.

Hard cut, back to a living room, now the Joy-Con 2 are on full display, being used to control something with motion, then slid into Ring-Con 2 and New Ring Fit starts, brief shot of the new Home Menu.

Back to montage of every game so far plus third parties, logo appears again, everyone goes "SUPER NINTENDO SWITCH", end. "March 2024”

Presentation announced for January in a press release later that week.
Click to expand...
So Ring Fit 2 would be the mainstream attention-grabber?
 
oracion said:
I recall that Nate mentioned the Samsung 8N a long time ago.
famiboards.com

Switch 2's DLSS implementation code has been stolen/leaked from NVidia

there's the MX570 with has 2048 cores. just slap some cpus on it It's also the same as the 3050m! So that seems to be a rough baseline of what kind of level of performance we might be able to expect (obviously it won't be a perfect match, given the myriad of other hardware factors involved such...
famiboards.com famiboards.com
Click to expand...
this process node was for Switch Pro that never came
 
LiC said:
Well, there's been a development in the case. Someone I was chatting with found shipment records from 2015-2018 like the following, also between the same branches of Nvidia:
  • TABLET >> HOVI SDEV 1.6 DEVELOPMENT TABLET SN: XAW02121004646
  • T210 SW DEVELOPMENT S-N: XAWF01111005724
  • PLATFORM >> T210 SW DEVELOPMENT PLATFORM S-N: XAW02121015833 , XAW02121015802 ; XAW021 21015833
Hovi is Nintendo, SDEV 1.6 is an early Switch devkit from late 2015, and all XAW serial numbers are Nintendo- and Switch-related model numbers.

From that, we can see that Nvidia used "T210 SW DEVELOPMENT PLATFORM" to refer to Nintendo's SDEV devkits, which contained T210 (Tegra X1), during development in 2016, and that they shipped them back and forth with their India branch from 2015-2018.

And so, "T239 SW DEVELOPMENT PLATFORM CARPA X1" is looking a lot more likely to actually refer to Nintendo's T239 devkits now!
Click to expand...
Great work 👍

Tbh that X1 in the label is annoying me though. It makes me think it's a Switch Pro, even though it absolutely doesn't make sense at all at this point, or in 2024, 7 years later.
 
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boomersooner2000 said:
How does the FDE on the rumored T239 work? I just want to get a better understanding on its capabilities
Click to expand...
I don't think we really know for sure, afaik it's a custom feature they put in here that isn't standard on their products. The first Google hit if you search "file decompression engine" is this thread, so I'm guessing it's not a publicized thing.
 
gnetc said:
How close is very close
Click to expand...
October-November reveal.

Like always, there's a real chance it gets revealed this month, but now more than ever it seems somewhat likely. Some think early November, still, in that period.

Once Wonder is out I think it's pretty much open season.
 
oldpuck said:
The short term value of this find is that is just that it runs counter to the "maybe T239 was cancelled or reworked" theory which crops up periodically. Since this manifest confirms this technical detail discovered 18 months ago, has dates up to 5 months, and still uses the T239 name. Since it also incidentally lines up with previous hints of tape-out/sampling, it is a big weight on the "T239's design was basically locked by the time it leaked, that chip and all we assumed about it is the chip we're getting"

Medium term, it's new data that can be pushed into search engines to see what else can be correlated and scrounged up.
Click to expand...
Is this new May 2023 date the latest we've heard anything regarding T239? I know there was a lot of stuff in 2022, even in the later months, but I recall mentions of it drying up upon the end of the new year. I've definitely considered the "T239 was cancelled" theory in the past, but I imagine this would pretty definitely put it to bed.
 
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