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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

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AceBandage said:
Thats because disc's are inherently slower than cards or internal, mostly.
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Don't get too cocky just yet, they did go with UFS 3.1 storage which is significantly faster than the SD express cards we're expecting. If some games are coded to use all that speed, they'll need installs.
 
Serif said:
If you compare the launch Switch with the 2019/Lite/OLED model, the former uses a 20 nm process and the latter 14 nm. This allowed for shrinking the device (Lite), and better battery life for the same performance while drawing less energy. And when overclocking those newer devices, much better performance than the launch Switch while sustaining reasonable heat and battery life.

Instead of 20 and 14 now we're comparing two newer processes, 8 and 4. But the idea is the same, 4 provides the power efficiency advantage.
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Important correction: 2019/Lite/OLED use 16nm. Original Switch was 20nm.
 
LiC said:
I'm just surprised that the super dense essay has more reactions than the post with the RAM and storage.
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That essay has been shared elsewhere as a 'spec dump', which is funny considering many of the other specs leaked more than a year ago and got much less traffic, and you already posted your major finds before you shared that detailed breakdown. You should start a blog.

ZonaiResearcher said:
Important correction: 2019/Lite/OLED use 16nm. Original Switch was 20nm.
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Thanks, edited.
 
OctoSplattack said:
I'm fine with it. MicroSD Express cards are starting out at 256 GB, so we'll be able to at least double that storage space on day one, which should at least hold me for a good while.
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Are they really going to go for MicroSD Express over MicroSD? 256GB is going to be filled up super fast with larger game sizes on Switch 2. My Switch 1 is nearly full with a 1TB microSD. I don’t think microSD Express is ready at this time.
 
Hi guys. i've been a lurker since the gaf days and rarely ever posted. Just wanted to say that i love this community and what you guys bring to the gaming world. Keep up the amazing work!
 
darthdiablo said:
Yeah, TSMC 4N would be everything we hoped for.

If you have a chance to, read this excellent writeup by Thraktor. From nvidia leaks, we know it's 12SMs. 8nm and 12SMs just doesn't seem to math (physic) well with each other, we find 4N likely.

And the reason why it's mainly debate between SEC8N vs TSMC 4N (and not other nodes between) is because nvidia products (in the current time frame) have overwhelmingly been fabbed on either SEC8N or TSMC 4N. The Switch 2 SoC, T239, is likely to be either one of those given what nvidia had their other products fabbed on.
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Thanks again!

Ok now, last question. When will we be able to tell wether the chip is on 4nm or 8nm?


PS: is there a way to "bookmark" a post in order to read it later? Because that's an ass long post lol
 
ZonaiResearcher said:
Are they really going to go for MicroSD Express over MicroSD? 256GB is going to be filled up super fast with larger game sizes on Switch 2. My Switch 1 is nearly full with a 1TB microSD. I don’t think microSD Express is ready at this time.
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It wouldn't make sense to use UFS 3.1 with SD cards, not in the slightest. SD express is basically a lock by now, no way they'll hold themselves back with such a slow storage medium now that we have every current gen system shipping with NVME drives.
 
ZonaiResearcher said:
Are they really going to go for MicroSD Express over MicroSD? 256GB is going to be filled up super fast with larger game sizes on Switch 2. My Switch 1 is nearly full with a 1TB microSD. I don’t think microSD Express is ready at this time.
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MicroSD is a non-starter for next-generation. It's just too slow.

We're looking at Switch 2 internal storage having a ~2GB/s speed. MicroSD max out at 100 - 200MB/s (0.1 - 0.2 GB/s). Even MicroSDExpress can only hit (so far for currently announced market solutions) ~ 1GB/s

mSDExpress will cost quite a penny and be offered at lower capacity at the start. But it will become cheaper and available at higher capacity in the upcoming years.
 
BassForever said:
Hey everyone, with Switch successor information likely to ramp up, we would like to remind everyone about our policy about hide tags



We would like to add that anyone who makes a new account just to share information behind hide tags on any other site without engaging with our community will be permanently banned.

-BassForever, Missingno, Meatbag, ngpdrew, blg, decoreturns, zellia
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how the hell are you going to enforce this?
 
A reminder that Samsung started sampling its 256 GB MicroSD Express cards a little over two months ago, and will be made available for purchase 'later this year'.

This makes sense with what originally would have been a late 2024 release date, now (hopefully) early 2025.

And with more products like Apple's M4 chip and Google's Pixel 8 line shifting to LPDDR5X, the Switch 2 using that type of RAM lines up with the current timeline. This is very much a 'modern' mobile device for the 2025 era onwards.
 
LiC said:
* Hidden text: cannot be quoted. *


I'm just surprised that the super dense essay has more reactions than the post with the RAM and storage.


* Hidden text: cannot be quoted. *
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If the quantities are different and those align with the shipments with new hardware I'm sure you are on the right track, good insights as always :)
 
7hatDeadCat said:
i sure hope so because
wattage_estimate.png

whew thatd be HAWT HAWT HAWT in SEC8n
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These 6.35W for 624 MHz clocks put switch 2 at 2 TFlops on portable mode and with a consume close to the original Switch (8.9W full machine) , so 3 hour of battery if it has SEC 5LPP with a similar battery.

But they say here that the Peak for T239 GPU would be at 3.5 Tflops, and that Switch 2 can achieve it at 1.2 GHz. So even at SEC 8NM switch 2 can run clocks at 522 MHz and consume 7W, what can still give a proper good 1.7 Tflop handled and a battery time close to the original Switch.

So, even at 8NM switch 2 can be a powerful hybrid, if these numbers are actured. Am i missing something or the entire debate between 8 and 4 is not worth in the end?
 
ZonaiResearcher said:
Do we have any proof that T239 is 4N? 4N seems much more cutting edge than Nintendo has used in decades. Going from 16nm to 4nm would be monumental
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4N is a custom 5nm made for Nvidia and is different from 4nm.

5nm is as old now as 20nm was when the Switch launched and we're 1 year away from the launch.
 
Codename_Steam said:
Can T239 still have 16GB RAM? Is 12GB all but confirmed?
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Its all but confirmed. Unless the papel trail refeer to another nintendo console that might launch independently from the true switch successor.

N 2 Deep said:
So they really might have ended up settling for 12 gigs of RAM huh?

Was I mistaken or were there rumors devs were pushing for 16?
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More like hopeful thinking, really.
 
oldpuck said:
That's probably it. Full credit, @Look over there - who I haven't seen in a while, I hope they're all right - they did the majority of the analysis a long time ago, I just did the last little bit of work and wrote it up.
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I saw you concluded the post that extra bandwidth wouldn't be significant. But do you that changes when you consider a potential higher docked flops count, e.g. 4.0TF?
 
ZonaiResearcher said:
Do we have any proof that T239 is 4N? 4N seems much more cutting edge than Nintendo has used in decades. Going from 16nm to 4nm would be monumental
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Your thinking of Nintendo pre Nvidia. The Tegra X1 was very modern when Switch launched. The 20nm node ended up being subpar, but it was still better than the 28nm node PS4 and Xbox One used. They also moved the X1 to 16nm within 2 years of Switch releasing, a very good and modern node at that time. Going from 16nm to 4nm in 6 years time is basically just pacing with technology. 4nm for a product launching in 2025, or even 2024 really, it's far from bleeding edge at this point. In 2022 it would have been, but nodes generally become mature within a year or two.
 
LiC said:
* Hidden text: cannot be quoted. *


I'm just surprised that the super dense essay has more reactions than the post with the RAM and storage.


* Hidden text: cannot be quoted. *
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Your post got reshared on multiple locations. Therefore it’s going to be the thing everyone looks at/comments on
 
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YolkFolk said:
How do people feel about 256GB of storage - taking into account the potential size of third party games?
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It's fine, I'm going to buy future nintendo games digital if they keep the voucher program but I don't think they'll baloon in size like the third party games, on the other hand I'm probably going to buy third party games phisical for that same reason.
 
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Does all this shipping stuff mean anything for a release in 2024? I know it’s pretty unlikely but maybe Nintendo is gonna surprise everyone?
 
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Serif said:
It may still be compatible but it will be slower compared to internal storage.
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Lancelot said:
For switch 2 games? Absolutely, no idea if it'll be possible to slot a legacy sd card for backwards compatibility at least.
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well I guess I'll have to wait and see on this one. Hope I can at least keep it for Switch 1 games. Then I could use the internal storage for Switch 2 games at least
 
I would lean to them requiring mandatory installs just because modern game engines increasingly rely on high transfer speed from internal storage.

But it could be on a game by game basis as well.
 
Skittzo said:
Yeah seems like the info has proliferated into the wide world of the internet. The jig is up!
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if you don't mind saying, where did you see it proliferate (if anything other than /r/gamingleaksandrumors)? :)

Edit: I guess the profilerating is bringing this site to its knee again. So slow right now
 
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ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
I would lean to them requiring mandatory installs just because modern game engines increasingly rely on high transfer speed from internal storage.

But it could be on a game by game basis as well.
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This would be my guess as well. You can store games on the microSD card but have to move them to internal storage to play them. I believe that's how the PS5 and Xbox work with external drives outside of the optimized ones too.
 
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GrandDemand said:
Given the breadth of information we have:
T239's GPU size
Thraktor's power data
DLSS test data
SoC design and tape-out timeline
Rough die sizes and costs
Nvidia engineer LinkedIn profile leaks
And now
Higher than anticipated memory bandwidth and,
A device as slim as Switch 1...

Yeah it's on 4N
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Hope you're right but... if it's 4N would it really need active cooling in the dock?
 
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indospot said:
I don't think I believe they'll use microSD Express. It's just too new and has almost no presence on the market. It's very unlike Nintendo to expect consumers to be on the bleeding edge of tech.
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I see them using microSD the same way PS5 and Xbox Series X use external USB storage—you can store games on it, but all games run off the internal storage.
 
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Another thing to keep in mind is that Nintendo usually develops new hardware with their software development teams asking for as high specs and features as possible and then their hardware development division removes stuff that isn't needed.

So maybe Nintendo devs asked for 16 GB RAM and then Nintendo hardware team didn't feel 16 GB RAM was needed and settled for 12 GB RAM instead.
 
indospot said:
I don't think I believe they'll use microSD Express. It's just too new and has almost no presence on the market. It's very unlike Nintendo to expect consumers to be on the bleeding edge of tech.
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The thing is that you need a certain level of read speed for games to work correctly. There is a plethora of videos out there that show how a PC with an HDD stutters to hell and back if it doesn't have ample RAM to buffer data (way more than should be necessary, like 32 GB). This would be what happens if you allow regular SD cards on the Switch 2. It would mean that no gen 9 game could come because they are built on a basic spec level from the storage-to-RAM throughput. And it would limit the potential of all Nintendo games because they have to run on a regular micro SD card.

Micro SD Express is the most mainstream option for expandable storage, even if it is pretty new.
 
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Leo said:
I came thirsty for specs, but can't really understand anything people are talking about :( praying for some good soul to dumb down the new info for us 🙏
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Good, not amazing. Better than most expected not as good as our highest end expectations.
 
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carbvan said:
Saw some mentions a few pages back of the RAM actually being a multiple of 6 (ie 6, 12, 18 or 24). Now obviously I doubt they'd go 18gb of RAM or above, so that leaves 6 and 12. So what makes everyone do confident it's 12 and not 6? Not trying to be a downer but I didn't get the explanations from before, maybe that's on me for scrolling too fast.
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Just to add to ILikeFeet's post, 9 GB (72 Gb) LPDDR5X modules don't exist. Nor do I think three 64-bit 6 GB (48 Gb) LPDDR5X modules can fit in the Nintendo Switch's successor's motherboard. So 18 GB of LPDDR5X for the RAM is also practically not possible.
 
indospot said:
I don't think I believe they'll use microSD Express. It's just too new and has almost no presence on the market. It's very unlike Nintendo to expect consumers to be on the bleeding edge of tech.
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it's your best option. anything else is just going to be a worse experience
 
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