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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

I don‘t know. I think it has more to do with consistency. The PS and XBOX brand are around for a long time, while Nintendo redoes their branding each time with console features that are sometimes not for everyone, regardless of how much of a Nintendo fan you are.

I think the Switch is different in the sense that it manages to be attractive for a much bigger audience. You don‘t care for handheld play? No problem, just use it as a conventional console. Don‘t want to play with Joycons? There is a Pro Controller for you. The Switch is much less about the hardware itself and more about the games you can play on it.

I think as long as Nintendo dosen‘t makes hardware that gets to much in the way of the games, they will be fine.
This is a good point. Nintendo was too reliant on rebranding each time. They can still lean on on 'Nintendo' as THE BRAND, and they've sort of done that with the Switch (Nintendo Switch) and I hope they continue that branding trend.
 
Not to doom and gloom, and not that I trust this person at all, but the only people who claimed dev kits were out there, have either never mentioned it again, or have since claimed that the hardware they heard about was canceled. If the hardware is further out than anticipated, it wouldn't exactly be shocking if dev kits are only just getting distributed. It would also explain why we have very little info or leaks outside of the Nvidia hack.

On the other hand they could just be taking about final dev kits or whatever. Or be a complete fraudster.
That's not entirely the case. The only examples of THAT was a game of telephone.

Meanwhile Bloomberg reporting has not yet been refuted (early dev kits in late 2021).
 
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If that what he is saying is truth and nintendo has delivered “final dev kits” to all developers, including indies, we should start hearing something in 1/2 months.

IIRC, Switch final dev kits were delivered by september/october per some indie developers comment (i think it was shinen..)

I dont know, usually close partners (like Platinum Games, for example) would get them earlier. If this is the ¨wide availability to everyone else¨ stage then I guess? But it sounded like these are the first dev kits being sent out which is very difficult to imagine
 
If that what he is saying is truth and nintendo has delivered “final dev kits” to all developers, including indies, we should start hearing something in 1/2 months.

IIRC, Switch final dev kits were delivered by september/october per some indie developers comment (i think it was shinen..)
It’s fake, this was a trap. They fell for it. lol
 
I didn't say it had anything to do with age, though.

We saw the Wii U flop even though the Wii was a runaway success. The 3DS struggled to make much of a splash for a while even though it was literally just a DS but better. Before that, the N64 sold miserably compared to the PS1, even though the SNES was the most popular platform of its generation.

I'd say that's more than enough evidence to suggest that Nintendo's audience doesn't have as much brand loyalty compared to the competition. This could easily be because a lot of people see Nintendo as a supplementary option, rather than having that mutual exclusivity that they have with either a PlayStation or an Xbox, they'll buy a Nintendo system in addition to whichever other platform they have, but only if it provides them with a significant enough reason to buy it.

You claimed that Nintendo's audience is "casual family", whereas the Playstation and Xbox audience is "casual adult". That clearly implies that Nintendo's demographics would skew more heavily towards children, which isn't supported by the data. I also don't agree that any of the examples you provide here constitute evidence that Nintendo doesn't have as much brand loyalty. In all cases there were a wide variety of factors at play which have been discussed ad nauseam, and there are readily available counter examples in the form of Xbox One and PS Vita.

In any case, this is getting quite off topic for a hardware speculation thread, so I'll leave it at that.

Any receipts for this? Especially the 'limited funds for marketing' is both hilariously implausible and are you suggesting that Nintendo allowed that Eurogamer article as cheap marketing? A newspiece that at most a few thousand people have actually read?

For consistency, I'll continue using Eurogamer/Digital Foundry reporting from here.

Sony and especially Microsoft have even more 'infinite money and popularity', yet PS5 + XBox Series X specs were already accurately reported on between Dec '19 and March '20 . If we accept that both PS4 and Switch were/are popular, successful consoles with direct successors lined up by the manufacturers, this completely diverging reporting only makes sense if Switch 2 is releasing H1 2024 at the earliest, subject to some credible reporting emerging in the next few weeks.
This is now more than 10 years ago, but in April '11 , also more than 12 months before release, Wii U was also accurately foreshadowed on.

The Nvidia leak of Mar '22 got a segment on DF Direct Weekly, but I straight up do not believe that this is equivalent to the preceding examples. For one, the source is different (Nvidia being hacked != specs leaked by game developers) and the clocks within that leak and the chip size don't wash as seen throughout this thread.

In conclusion, I doubt that this 'T239' device is releasing this year. Although I offer no hints/proofs beyond the historic pattern of reporting by credible news sources, I propose that this is still ample justification for my claim. If T239-based Switch 2 does release in H2 2023 I will be over the moon personally and you can all laugh at me. I won't much care since, again, I'll look forward to playing on exciting new hardware!

There's a good reason why we would expect specs for Nintendo's recent consoles to be either less likely to leak or leak later than Sony and Microsoft's hardware, which is simply that fewer people need to know them. Most major third party games are made with either PS5 or XBSX as the primary platform. If a developer started a project in 2017, then it was likely targeting PS5 as the primary platform, and the developers would have needed to know as much about the hardware as they could as early as they could in order to scope the game out, develop the game engine, create assets and soforth. By the time the specs leaked almost every third party in the industry would have been working on a PS5/XBSX game.

Nintendo is in a much better position with third parties than they were, but the number of games made with Switch as the primary platform is still comparatively tiny. There have certainly been a few (Mario+Rabbids, Octopath Traveller, MH:Rise off the top of my head), but for each of them there were probably 10 games built around the PS4, with bigger teams to boot. Switch received many ports as well, and I'm sure that will continue with [redacted], but these were often ported after the fact, in relatively short time periods with small teams, and often outsourced to specialised port studios.

If we're going with detailed specification leaks from developers, then we do see this happening much later for Nintendo's last couple of consoles than Sony and Microsoft's. As you say, full detailed specs for PS5/XBSX were known around 8-11 months before launch. In the case of the Switch, Eurogamer published this article 8 months before Switch's release, which revealed that they would be using a Nvidia Tegra chip, but didn't give any detailed specs. In fact, although they identify the Tegra X1 as being used in dev kits, they actually spend time in the article speculating that its a placeholder for another chip such as the Tegra X2, so clearly they hadn't received nearly as much detail from developers at this stage as they had for PS5/XBSX at a similar time-frame. Actual specs weren't leaked until just 3 months before launch, and even then clock speeds were a bit off compared to what the Switch launched with.

When it comes to the Wii U, there were many fundamental specifications, including the number of shader cores, that weren't known until after the console was launched. The Eurogamer article you link to contains vague references to R700-era GPUs being used in dev kits, but no detailed specs at all. A developer leak of the actual hardware specs never happened. Details were so sparse that for months after Wii U released we were poring over die photos to try to figure out basic specifications.

That's not to say that we shouldn't expect developer leaks to occur in the run-up to launch, but we shouldn't be using the timelines of Sony and MS console leaks as a guide for when to expect them.
 
This is a good point. Nintendo was too reliant on rebranding each time. They can still lean on on 'Nintendo' as THE BRAND, and they've sort of done that with the Switch (Nintendo Switch) and I hope they continue that branding trend.
Switch^2, Switch^3 etc. for their hybrid line, Switch^X Lite for their dedicated handhelds, Switch^X Flip for clamshell and foldable ventures, Switch^X View (Or "V") for their ARVR ventures.

That would be my dream, a continuous brand of "Switch", with each "compatibility family" denoted with a number and formfactor with a word.

HOME for a more powerful TV only version, maybe? I wouldn't like it but it's not like it's off the table as long as its software compatible with their current-at-the-time hybrid.
 
They initially marketed to that demographic because they knew that those were the most reliable people who were interested in Nintendo at the time. As the Switch has built momentum, they've skewed more towards the family demographic, even if their generic hardware adverts don't show it.
Still disagree with assesment. Nintendo still kept getting 3rd party ports as time went one, some even more ambitious than the last. And last I checked, The Witcher 3 and Doom Eternal were rated M.
 
Meta Quest VR (SoC in headset) route, huh? They'd probably do something less taxing than what you're suggesting. Likely maybe having the headset function more as another display that duplicates the signal on different layers than something with a full chipset. Or some other way that's cost effective and not as clunky. A second chipset in the headset seems like something to drive up the price since the two displays in that tiny headset are still an expense.

Also I think the screen resolution for the VR headset needs at least a 1440p output . Those who used Labo VR should know firsthand that a low-resolution VR doesn't look very pretty, no matter how good a day the user is having. I assume whatever system board MAY be in the headset will likely supplement the display purposes, duplication and upscaling and all.

If it's in the cards, they'll make it work, I'm sure. Plus they're starting to trust digital more as a platform so it's not like supporting the peripheral has as much risk if they can patch things in or have eShop games that take advantage of it. Effectively though, I think they would want to try to make it as affordable but functionally efficient as they can, avoiding a cost like the PSVR2 would be the goal.
When I talk about 1080p, is that resolution per eye. Full 1920 x 1080 in each side. That why I think a adicional Drake on the helmet can help create the second image. the labo use a 720p screen divided by two with not all pixels begin in use. I don't play it but I can imagine ow horrible it is.

And about the price, that thing is basically a switch 2 with a lot less things. If a swicth 2 be something like $400,00 that VR can be something like $250 or $300, a lot cheaper then PSVR, for example.
 
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That's illogical, at best.

No, it's not. There's just no reason for them to refuse to show the Switch 2 until right before release even as investors and analysts beg them to show the Switch 2 and the Switch sales are mediocre right now.

Misleading investors about the upcoming fiscal year for no reason just seems really stupid. Maybe Nintendo is really stupid about this, but idk, I don't think there's a reason to project that.
 
If we pass the Q4 fiscal year results result with no announcement, I hope people set their expectations to Fall 2024.
I certainly would, at minimum. I expect many will continue on with the announcement being "possible" at later points this year, but that doesn't seem realistic to me at all. Honestly Nintendo has probably been saying "uncharted territory" for a reason. Maybe that will become more apparent at the FY briefing.
 
Hi everyone! I'm posting here for the first time to say that, yup, the "Hawk" 4chan leak was fake. I wrote it. The title is a HMAC-SHA1 hash with the key HWK info 4 ya :) and the message beautiful DLSS future awaits. Sorry for doing that.

Most people here seemed very skeptical of the "leak," and I haven't seen anyone here buy into it 100%. However, today I saw someone on Twitter tweet it out at someone, and apparently a few small gaming news websites have written about it too. To anyone who I deceived (and I know that some of you are lurking here in the shadows), I'm sorry. This was just a creative exercise that I decided to post as a "leak" because I wanted to see what people thought of it. I was disappointed at first when it was ignored, but honestly, I felt kind of relieved too. I shouldn't have framed my predictions in a way that was dishonest.

The specs that I wrote out were definitely based on the discussions that were held here, but what's kind of funny is that some of those apparent connections were actually unintentional. I wrote most of that stuff in mid-February, but I didn't post it because there were already lots of rumors flying around, like the Drake cancellation rumor. So, I waited a bit longer to post it... and then the Pokemon rumor happened. So I waited some more, and then people started talking about a patent for a controller that can store save data. A couple of people mentioned that they wanted Streetpass to return, too. Oof. And yeah, the SCD similarity was unintentional. I'd never heard of that before.

Two other things that I want to clear up, in case anyone's still wondering about them: the CCD thing was basically just a description of Streetpass with smartphone support, with the extra possibility of future accessories supporting it too. Software-based gimmicks (such as optional smartphone features) seem like a great way to innovate and expand the reach of Nintendo's IP, in my opinion. Second, the "H" in "HLZ" was just mean to stand for the codename of the system, Hawk. I didn't imagine it as being anything more than a LZ-compressed file with a custom header. It was interesting to read about hierarchal and hybrid LZ compression though.

Since this is probably going to be my final post here, here are some hardware ideas that I think would be cool to see, even if they're not actually useful or viable:
  • A right stick that can be rotated when it's in its neutral position.
  • A small square-shaped button that's actually a screen. Like, one that you can press down on! Games could change its display to show what the button does, and it could even show visual cues related to whatever's going on in the game. Maybe it could match the color scheme of its Joy-Con.
  • A screen that can display pictures using infrared light. Imagine if you could just scan a QR code on someone else's screen without the need for any visible clutter? This wouldn't really work for a hybrid system, but it could be neat for a handheld.

So yeah, that's that. Goodbye, and take care!
 
No, it's not. There's just no reason for them to refuse to show the Switch 2 until right before release even as investors and analysts beg them to show the Switch 2 and the Switch sales are mediocre right now.

Misleading investors about the upcoming fiscal year for no reason just seems really stupid. Maybe Nintendo is really stupid about this, but idk, I don't think there's a reason to project that.

Not announcing hardware prior to the start of the fiscal year is not, by any definition, misleading investors, unless you believe every consumer electronics company misleads investors every year. Nintendo are free to announce new hardware as and when they feel is best for their business, and have no obligation to shareholders to give prior warning.

I certainly would, at minimum. I expect many will continue on with the announcement being "possible" at later points this year, but that doesn't seem realistic to me at all. Honestly Nintendo has probably been saying "uncharted territory" for a reason. Maybe that will become more apparent at the FY briefing.

I think it's possible that they may confirm the existence of new hardware at the FY briefing, and the repeated use of the term "uncharted territory" is definitely curious, but I don't think there's any hard rule that if it isn't announced before the start of the financial year it's somehow off the table.
 
Remind me again the last time nintendo announced any new hardware in their financial briefing

I'm once again saying WITHIN the next six weeks. Please stop intentionally misreading me.

1. Nintendo has never gone into an end of year fiscal meeting without a new console already announced if it was releasing a new console the next fiscal year
2. There is just no reason to mislead investors about the upcoming fiscal year and not telling them about the new console you are planning to release in the upcoming fiscal year would be intentionally misleading with like... no possible benefit.

Like, again, I've seen a lot of "well, they don't have to tell investors!" and yes, they do not, but I've still not seen a possible reason as to why a historically short announcement to release schedule that misled investors would be a net positive at all. Where are the benefits.
 
Hi everyone! I'm posting here for the first time to say that, yup, the "Hawk" 4chan leak was fake. I wrote it. The title is a HMAC-SHA1 hash with the key HWK info 4 ya :) and the message beautiful DLSS future awaits. Sorry for doing that.

Most people here seemed very skeptical of the "leak," and I haven't seen anyone here buy into it 100%. However, today I saw someone on Twitter tweet it out at someone, and apparently a few small gaming news websites have written about it too. To anyone who I deceived (and I know that some of you are lurking here in the shadows), I'm sorry. This was just a creative exercise that I decided to post as a "leak" because I wanted to see what people thought of it. I was disappointed at first when it was ignored, but honestly, I felt kind of relieved too. I shouldn't have framed my predictions in a way that was dishonest.

The specs that I wrote out were definitely based on the discussions that were held here, but what's kind of funny is that some of those apparent connections were actually unintentional. I wrote most of that stuff in mid-February, but I didn't post it because there were already lots of rumors flying around, like the Drake cancellation rumor. So, I waited a bit longer to post it... and then the Pokemon rumor happened. So I waited some more, and then people started talking about a patent for a controller that can store save data. A couple of people mentioned that they wanted Streetpass to return, too. Oof. And yeah, the SCD similarity was unintentional. I'd never heard of that before.

Two other things that I want to clear up, in case anyone's still wondering about them: the CCD thing was basically just a description of Streetpass with smartphone support, with the extra possibility of future accessories supporting it too. Software-based gimmicks (such as optional smartphone features) seem like a great way to innovate and expand the reach of Nintendo's IP, in my opinion. Second, the "H" in "HLZ" was just mean to stand for the codename of the system, Hawk. I didn't imagine it as being anything more than a LZ-compressed file with a custom header. It was interesting to read about hierarchal and hybrid LZ compression though.

Since this is probably going to be my final post here, here are some hardware ideas that I think would be cool to see, even if they're not actually useful or viable:
  • A right stick that can be rotated when it's in its neutral position.
  • A small square-shaped button that's actually a screen. Like, one that you can press down on! Games could change its display to show what the button does, and it could even show visual cues related to whatever's going on in the game. Maybe it could match the color scheme of its Joy-Con.
  • A screen that can display pictures using infrared light. Imagine if you could just scan a QR code on someone else's screen without the need for any visible clutter? This wouldn't really work for a hybrid system, but it could be neat for a handheld.

So yeah, that's that. Goodbye, and take care!
I mean, tip of the hat for doing what many in here have threatened doing at one point or another for grins and giggles while owning up to it. Just as good an exercise for all of us to consider to not take these leaks at face value and ensure there is some scrutiny before accepting them as gospel.

It's funny you mention the button with a screen in it. I've had occasional thoughts about that too, but I guess tech is catching up in a way where a screen could be built small enough to fit on a button face. Just where would it go is the question; perhaps either in the middle of the standard diamond button layout, or a return to the Gamecube bean buttons and the entire face of the A button is the screen? That would be pretty neat.
 
Nintendo's game output on Switch has been positively lethargic. Coasting on free money is acting like a port or remaster or 1:1 remake fills the slot of a brand-new release. Coasting on free money means drip-feeding ROM's on a monthly basis. It means charging an exorbitant price for a subscription to an online service that is not even a slight improvement over the previously free service.
The Wii u was a huge failure with only 13 million units sold worldwide. But it would be an abomination that the vast majority of people who did not have a Wii u could still access Mario kart 8, tropical freeze, or Super Mario 3D world on the Nintendo switch. Why?

None of Nintendo’s competing consoles offer free online service, but it would be an abomination for Nintendo to do so, while the Nintendo switch online
remains at a relatively affordable price and continues to improve qualitatively and quantitatively. Why?

We often talk about the constraints related to development in HD. Not only does the problem seem to be treated in the long term with a strengthening of Nintendo EPD teams, but in addition it seems to me that the release schedule has been rather better managed than in the past on the switch. We have entered the 7th year of the life cycle of this hardware, if we are in the next few months a small weakness of the planning to prepare the next generation I do not think that will justify to cry scandal either.

All this sounds a bit like a Nintendo lambda youtubeur lament. I know who we are, but we’re also a bubble.

I am not saying that Nintendo is not open to criticism. Far from it. But I don’t quite agree with the points you’re making.

Personally, the dismal handling of joy-con drift, the negative impact it has on their reputation, the deplorable precedent created by the time-limited release of Super Mario 3D all Star, the sudden price cover of the next Zelda,or the new and very worrying trend of releasing games not completely finished (Mario strikers, Nintendo switch sport) seems to me to be a little more significant dissatisfaction.
 
I'm once again saying WITHIN the next six weeks. Please stop intentionally misreading me.
Boy there’s nothing to misread, in 6 weeks is the financial meeting, and you quite literally said
If we pass the Q4 fiscal year results result with no announcement, I hope people set their expectations to Fall 2024.
This is already pointing to the financial meeting, there’s nothing to Miss Reed about this. Now you’re going to move the goal post and say this is not what you actually meant and you meant something else. I don’t wanna hear it. Stop leaning on the financial meeting as anything. It doesn’t mean anything that’s worthwhile.
 
Regardless of whether we think one thing will overshadow another thing, we've frequently seen Nintendo trying to give different big releases their own room. So deciding "oh well, what the hell" when it comes to the biggest software release in years and the biggest hardware announce in years would surprise me.
 
That will not overshadow Tears of the Kingdom, lol

That game is the sequel to the most critically acclaimed game of all time

If a Switch 2 was announced or referenced at the next meeting, just days before TotK, it would definitely overshadow the engagement and buzz surrounding the game is what I mean. I´m just saying in a scenario where it would be it would just take attention off the new Zelda, which is what Nintendo wants all eyes on.

So the date of the briefing makes something unlikely to happen even more unlikely due to the big game launch in a matter of days after.
 
I dont know, usually close partners (like Platinum Games, for example) would get them earlier. If this is the ¨wide availability to everyone else¨ stage then I guess? But it sounded like these are the first dev kits being sent out which is very difficult to imagine

I have always expected a soft transition to the next hardware, so dev kits coming out very late would not surprise me. Games that have been in development for Switch will be quick and easy to port and enhance for Redacted. This also keeps the development focused on the hardware that has already sold 120 million units. Nintendo will still be looking to sell to that audience for a few years and the results are always better when the lower spec hardware is the target and then the more powerful hardware gets the enhancements. Its good software for everyone, regardless if your on Switch or Redacted. If you have a Switch game in development right now targeting a release date 8-12 months from now, and they were to get Redacted development kits in the next couple months, I am confident those developers could have the Redacted port ready for a same day release.

If were assume Redacted will launch in November of this year, its not like every developer needs or even wants to have software ready to release day one. The hardware will sell out of months and a stead stream of software month after month is better for everyone compared to dumping fifty titles out there on launch day.

If we pass the Q4 fiscal year results result with no announcement, I hope people set their expectations to Fall 2024.

They wont have to announce it before or at this event, but they will answer some questions. If they were to tell investors that they have no plans to release new hardware in the upcoming fiscal year, that would be reason to move expectations to fall 2024. If they respond with something like we have nothing to share at this time, that leaves the door wide open.
 
If that what he is saying is truth and nintendo has delivered “final dev kits” to all developers, including indies, we should start hearing something in 1/2 months.

IIRC, Switch final dev kits were delivered by september/october per some indie developers comment (i think it was shinen..)
He has no sources (related to Nintendo)
 
I'm once again saying WITHIN the next six weeks. Please stop intentionally misreading me.

1. Nintendo has never gone into an end of year fiscal meeting without a new console already announced if it was releasing a new console the next fiscal year
2. There is just no reason to mislead investors about the upcoming fiscal year and not telling them about the new console you are planning to release in the upcoming fiscal year would be intentionally misleading with like... no possible benefit.

Like, again, I've seen a lot of "well, they don't have to tell investors!" and yes, they do not, but I've still not seen a possible reason as to why a historically short announcement to release schedule that misled investors would be a net positive at all. Where are the benefits.
Here's a reason: they want to keep selling as many Switch consoles as possible. Switch may be down significantly from its peak, but it's still selling well for a console in its seventh year, and the hardware sales themselves are very profitable for Nintendo. The moment they publicly announce a successor Switch hardware sales will drop as people decide to wait for the new console instead. That's a plenty good reason to let skittish investors wait a few more months.

A six month or less announcement to release cycle would hardly be unheard of, anyway. If we ignore the NX "announcement", which told us nothing and was only done to make it clear Nintendo wasn't abandoning the hardware market, the actual public announcement to release cycle for the Switch was only 6 months. Even then, the initial announcement was almost exclusively focussed on the design and form-factor of the device, and an actual showcase of the games didn't occur until just two months before launch. If we assume that [redacted] will have a very similar form-factor to the Switch, I would argue that even a 3-4 month announcement to launch cycle could be possible for the new hardware.

If a Switch 2 was announced or referenced at the next meeting, just days before TotK, it would definitely overshadow the engagement and buzz surrounding the game is what I mean. I´m just saying in a scenario where it would be it would just take attention off the new Zelda, which is what Nintendo wants all eyes on.

So the date of the briefing makes something unlikely to happen even more unlikely due to the big game launch in a matter of days after.

There's actually quite a bit of precedent for major titles releasing just after hardware announcements, and it doesn't seem to have affected sales at all. In particular, The Last of Us released on PS3 less than a week after Sony's major PS4 showcase and broke sales records. The Last of Us Part II launched on PS4 a little over a week after the major PS5 showcase and also broke sales records.

I'd argue there's a possibility that a hardware announcement before ToTK releases might actually increase sales, as it would mean increased exposure for Nintendo in mainstream press, but I don't know if it would be a significant factor.
 
well-its-groundhog-day-again.jpg

Isn´t it just 3 days before TotK too? It would completely overshadow the launch of the game in terms of social media discussions and news sites
TotK will be fine either way.

Edit: If it happens, here's what you could do: you announce Switch 2 in some fashion, and set the review embargo for sometime acter that announcement. This will shine the spotlight brightly on the game again.
 
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The issue with trying to analyze each thing in a vacuum is that the odds of a Q4 2023 are low based on all public knowledge with

1. If the Switch 2 launches November 2023, then Nintendo is releasing a new console less than 8 months after announcement (historically extremely short for an announcement)
2. Nintendo has made essentially zero public gestures at a Switch 2. Unlike Sony talking about the PS5 in mid 2019, Nintendo's public statements on the future are "IDK, we'll see how it goes, this is a weird time!"

If you start adding on more and more (such as "refusing to talk about the main product of the next fiscal year when forecasting the next fiscal year") and the time to the potential release keeps getting shorter, then the odds go from "low" to "extremely low." Especially as there's no reason for Nintendo to do any of this for surprise.
 
If a Switch 2 was announced or referenced at the next meeting, just days before TotK, it would definitely overshadow the engagement and buzz surrounding the game is what I mean. I´m just saying in a scenario where it would be it would just take attention off the new Zelda, which is what Nintendo wants all eyes on.

So the date of the briefing makes something unlikely to happen even more unlikely due to the big game launch in a matter of days after.
Although I don't believe they will announce new hardware at the investor meeting, I don't understand this argument at all. The same zelda fans who are going to buy totk....would simply still buy it at launch and then (re)play it on their upcoming new hardware.
This isn't a this or that choice, especially since there would be atleast a few months inbetween either's release in which Nintendo would use totk to bolster the new hardware via marketing(whether upgrade, the game just being on there or whatever) or vice versa.
 
I certainly would, at minimum. I expect many will continue on with the announcement being "possible" at later points this year, but that doesn't seem realistic to me at all. Honestly Nintendo has probably been saying "uncharted territory" for a reason. Maybe that will become more apparent at the FY briefing.
What would you consider the upper limit? 2025 or 2026?
 
Here's a reason: they want to keep selling as many Switch consoles as possible. Switch may be down significantly from its peak, but it's still selling well for a console in its seventh year, and the hardware sales themselves are very profitable for Nintendo. The moment they publicly announce a successor Switch hardware sales will drop as people decide to wait for the new console instead. That's a plenty good reason to let skittish investors wait a few more months.

A six month or less announcement to release cycle would hardly be unheard of, anyway. If we ignore the NX "announcement", which told us nothing and was only done to make it clear Nintendo wasn't abandoning the hardware market, the actual public announcement to release cycle for the Switch was only 6 months. Even then, the initial announcement was almost exclusively focussed on the design and form-factor of the device, and an actual showcase of the games didn't occur until just two months before launch. If we assume that [redacted] will have a very similar form-factor to the Switch, I would argue that even a 3-4 month announcement to launch cycle could be possible for the new hardware.
Will the people who buy the system at this point in time actually wait to get the Switch 2 instead, though? They seem like completely different types of consumers compared to the people who would go out to buy a new system in the first few months of a systems launch.

I would also say that you can't really ignore the NX announcement, as it was an announcement, just one that was light on details. I believe the pattern exists that Nintendo has never gone into the new fiscal year meeting with a console that has not been announced but is going to release that next fiscal year.

Of course, patterns are made to be broken and there is probably nothing that makes it imposiible/illegal to deny it to their investors even if it does happen. But you may be raising eyebrows if you come out with an unexpectedly large forecast and cannot substantiate it beyond 'we will do our best to drive engagement'. Perhaps that's not a problem, but it's at least not gentlepersonly towards investors I would say.
 
historically short announcement to release schedule that misled investors would be a net positive at all. Where are the benefits.

The only reason I can see for the short turn around is because they want to continue to sell as many Switch units as possible and really maximize the potential for Zelda TotK to move hardware. With the Switch being an established platform it doesn't take much time to build demand that will surpass the launch supply. By announcing the successor a year in advance of launch it would prevent many consumers from buying Switch in anticipation that they will instead wait to purchase the new model. Nintendo could announce the Switch Redacted today for a May 12 release alongside Zelda TotK and it would sell out for months. In todays world, its takes hours, days and weeks to inform consumers of a new product. Nintendo didn't need to announce the OLED model long before release and it was pretty much sold out for months following release. I think of this as being more similar to the GameBoy to GameBoy Color, where Nintendo seamlessly moves to a new hardware SKU without ever having a hard reset.
 
Couldn't they very well tell investors they are always working on new hardware but they have nothing to announce regarding a release for this FY?
But that wouldn't explain their potentially incongruent forecast, assuming they have more units in their forecast than would be reasonable (which could very well be the case if they start to sell the system this calendar year already).
 
I think at the most they'll tell us they're working on something and maybe give a code name. Probably no other details or a release window.

They might even just refer to it as another member of the switch family.
 
But that wouldn't explain their potentially incongruent forecast, assuming they have more units in their forecast than would be reasonable (which could very well be the case if they start to sell the system this calendar year already).
If the decrease in HW sales is flat or there is a slight increase, they could try to pass it off as related to just "games" boosting HW, which wouldn't technically be wrong. They could also just project a decrease because if it's not releasing this FY.
 
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The only reason I can see for the short turn around is because they want to continue to sell as many Switch units as possible and really maximize the potential for Zelda TotK to move hardware. With the Switch being an established platform it doesn't take much time to build demand that will surpass the launch supply. By announcing the successor a year in advance of launch it would prevent many consumers from buying Switch in anticipation that they will instead wait to purchase the new model. Nintendo could announce the Switch Redacted today for a May 12 release alongside Zelda TotK and it would sell out for months. In todays world, its takes hours, days and weeks to inform consumers of a new product. Nintendo didn't need to announce the OLED model long before release and it was pretty much sold out for months following release. I think of this as being more similar to the GameBoy to GameBoy Color, where Nintendo seamlessly moves to a new hardware SKU without ever having a hard reset.

IDK, it's been so long that I don't think a GB to GBC like transition is reasonable.

The GBC also lasted... Three years before being replaced.

Most people here are expecting the Switch to have 3x as much RAM as the original Switch as well as massively more RAM bandwidth. I struggle to see how that won't immediately lead to a ton of games that are on Switch 2 and not Switch 1 (thus not similar to GB to GBC)

Capcom and WB would absolutely love to put SF6 and MK12 on the Switch 2 as soon as possible and so would a lot of other devs with games that just can't be done on Switch 1 without a ton of work.
 
Nintendo has made essentially zero public gestures at a Switch 2. Unlike Sony talking about the PS5 in mid 2019, Nintendo's public statements on the future are "IDK, we'll see how it goes, this is a weird time!"
Its a bit different for Sony because they haven't historically had trouble transitioning from one console generation to the next. Nintendo has had a ton of trouble doing this and have openly stated that they are concerned about the transition. Anything that could stifle Switch sales, especially with it being their only hardware now, would be avoided as it offers no upside. Can you sell me on an upside to revealing a new Switch revision a year or more in advance? You are the one saying it would need to happen leading into the new fiscal year, so that means you believe a year in advance is necessary. Anything less would mean Nintendo wouldn't have announced it leading into the new fiscal year and you are saying that wouldn't/shouldn't happen?


IDK, it's been so long that I don't think a GB to GBC like transition is reasonable.

The GBC also lasted... Three years before being replaced.
GBC was on the market from 1998 to 2003, so it had a five year run. Yes GBA came out in 2001, but really GBC to GBA was just another soft transition, GBA fully supported GB/GBC games, so you can look GB through GBA as being one family of systems. Keep in mind that the original GameBoy came out in 1989, so the GameBoy essentially had a 14 year run before being completely phased out and if we include the GBA since it did sully support GB/GBC games, it was much much longer. If Nintendo could have a strong 14+ year run with the Switch family of systems without having to go through the hard reset, I think that would be considered a win. If you look at the Xbox One to Series consoles, it has a lot in common with the GB/GBC/GBA.
 
Will the people who buy the system at this point in time actually wait to get the Switch 2 instead, though? They seem like completely different types of consumers compared to the people who would go out to buy a new system in the first few months of a systems launch.

I would also say that you can't really ignore the NX announcement, as it was an announcement, just one that was light on details. I believe the pattern exists that Nintendo has never gone into the new fiscal year meeting with a console that has not been announced but is going to release that next fiscal year.

Of course, patterns are made to be broken and there is probably nothing that makes it imposiible/illegal to deny it to their investors even if it does happen. But you may be raising eyebrows if you come out with an unexpectedly large forecast and cannot substantiate it beyond 'we will do our best to drive engagement'. Perhaps that's not a problem, but it's at least not gentlepersonly towards investors I would say.

I certainly don't expect all Switch buyers to wait, but some of them would. The OLED model, in particular, seems to be frequently bought as an upgrade for existing Switch owners, and accounts for just over 50% of Switch sales. I could see a sizeable number of potential OLED model buyers waiting, which would have a significant effect on sales overall. The Switch is also in the unusual position where it hasn't seen a single price drop over 6+ years, and it's plausible that it won't get one until the successor releases (if at all). This means the gap between the price of a Switch and a [redacted] is likely to be a lot lower than typical for new generation hardware, making it more appealing to wait (although I don't expect them to announce the price until a month or two before).

While they haven't historically released a console without announcing it prior to the start of the fiscal year, I don't think there's anything special about the fiscal year in this, it's just that they've always announced new consoles at least a year in advance, which automatically means it has been announced prior to the start of the fiscal year. I could equivalently state that Nintendo has never released a console without announcing it before the preceding Valentine's Day, which is technically true, but there's no reason to believe Nintendo care about Valentine's Day particularly.

Regarding forecasts, Nintendo can simply not include the new hardware in their forecasts. I don't believe they're under any obligation to (and I don't think they have typically done so in the past).
 
Please read this staff post before posting.

Furthermore, according to this follow-up post, all off-topic chat will be moderated.
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