StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

[Nintendojitsu]

Different audience.

Xbox and PlayStation cater to the "casual adult", who has the money to just buy the new thing because its the new thing. The same people who buy the new iPhone even though their old one works fine.

Nintendo's audience is "casual family", who are not predisposed to buying the new thing for the sake of it. Parents need to be able to see that the new system is actually worth spending money on, and if it doesn't have any games that aren't also available on the Switch they already own, then they're not going to drop $400 on it.

Yeah, I fully expect cross-generation games, but I was responding to the ridiculous notion that none of Nintendo's first-party games would be exclusive to the new system.

Equally, I expect many games that could easily run on the Switch to just inexplicably be exclusive to [REDACTED]. Nintendo just does things like that. The next 2D Mario runs on Switch, but then the next 2D Zelda doesn't - or something.

"What year is it?"

 

[FeiFongWong]

I'd say that's more than enough evidence to suggest that Nintendo's audience doesn't have as much brand loyalty compared to the competition. This could easily be because a lot of people see Nintendo as a supplementary option, rather than having that mutual exclusivity that they have with either a PlayStation or an Xbox, they'll buy a Nintendo system in addition to whichever other platform they have, but only if it provides them with a significant enough reason to buy it.

There is a truth to what you are saying. In my case they completely lost me with wii. I bought it, played xenoblade and sold the console because games looked blurry on a hdtv and I hated wiimotes. Maybe the majority of nintendo enjoyers like new gimmicks with a new system but I couldnt care less. Honestly, I'd be pissed if they tried to innovate with their next system It would be interesting if nintendo did some kind of survey to find out how important new gimmicks are for adoption of a new system. Im getting it day one regardless of price. I just hope they dont shoot themselves in feet with stupid decisions.

 

[syrozz]

There hasn't been an equivalent report to this one yet which accurately leaked the Nintendo Switch in late July 2016. I'm therefore extremely skeptical that we'll get the Switch's successor in 2023 and the clock is ticking already for a 1st half of 2024 release.
It ain't happening, unless Nintendo clamped down harder on leaks which I find strange unless the successor has a very significant novel hook to it. I also believe that Nintendo is very apprehensive of an MSRP of more than $350, regardless of inflation. I'd be extremely delighted if all that Drake stuff this thread takes pretty much for granted turns out to be real, but I doubt it until Nintendo reveals it or at the very least Eurogamer reports on it.

The context is very different.
In 2016, Nintendo were on the verge of irrelevancy. Their WiiU flopped hard, they needed to let people know that they were actively working toward a new exciting project.

Today, the Switch is on its way to be the most successful console ever made and it is still selling well. They need to be as quiet as possible to keep Switch momentum. And with this success, they have the power to pick trustworthy partners and put enough pressure on to keep it a secret.
And still we know a lot already lol.

 

[PokéPersona]

Ouch... You're not wrong, but ouch....

The GB/GBC/GBA emulators on NSO are arguably the best emulators for the system in general.

 

[Erathix]

You still have about a year before the new console releases. You're good don't worry.

*7 Months

 

[Mer.Saloon]

I didn't say it had anything to do with age, though.

We saw the Wii U flop even though the Wii was a runaway success. The 3DS struggled to make much of a splash for a while even though it was literally just a DS but better. Before that, the N64 sold miserably compared to the PS1, even though the SNES was the most popular platform of its generation.

I'd say that's more than enough evidence to suggest that Nintendo's audience doesn't have as much brand loyalty compared to the competition. This could easily be because a lot of people see Nintendo as a supplementary option, rather than having that mutual exclusivity that they have with either a PlayStation or an Xbox, they'll buy a Nintendo system in addition to whichever other platform they have, but only if it provides them with a significant enough reason to buy it.

The N64 sold equivalent to the SNES in North America. Good marketing and branding kept the platform alive well into the 2000s despite having a worse lineup over the PS1. Despite being a huge flop in Japan and EU, brand loyalty and marketing is what kept the platform really alive.

The 3DS held a very respectable +70 million in a time when phone games really took off. Managing that while having itself torn apart by phones and technically being a worse machine than the Vita is no small feat. And the success of the 3DS was spurred by that absolute barrage of 1st party games that followed after the price cut.

 

[Enton]

Why do you find that strange? They were lax on leaks towards the end of the Wii U because it was free marketing and built anticipation at a time when they simply couldn't afford to create a huge marketing campaign.

Now the Switch has given them infinite money and popularity, that kind of thing could instead actively harm their business, so they've cracked down on it.

The context is very different.
In 2016, Nintendo were on the verge of irrelevancy. Their WiiU flopped hard, they needed to let people know that they were actively working toward a new exciting project.

Today, the Switch is on its way to be the most successful console ever made and it is still selling well. They need to be as quiet as possible to keep Switch momentum. And with this success, they have the power to pick trustworthy partners and put enough pressure on to keep it a secret.
And still we know a lot already lol.

Any receipts for this? Especially the 'limited funds for marketing' is both hilariously implausible and are you suggesting that Nintendo allowed that Eurogamer article as cheap marketing? A newspiece that at most a few thousand people have actually read?

For consistency, I'll continue using Eurogamer/Digital Foundry reporting from here.

Sony and especially Microsoft have even more 'infinite money and popularity', yet PS5 + XBox Series X specs were already accurately reported on between Dec '19 and March '20 . If we accept that both PS4 and Switch were/are popular, successful consoles with direct successors lined up by the manufacturers, this completely diverging reporting only makes sense if Switch 2 is releasing H1 2024 at the earliest, subject to some credible reporting emerging in the next few weeks.
This is now more than 10 years ago, but in April '11 , also more than 12 months before release, Wii U was also accurately foreshadowed on.

The Nvidia leak of Mar '22 got a segment on DF Direct Weekly, but I straight up do not believe that this is equivalent to the preceding examples. For one, the source is different (Nvidia being hacked != specs leaked by game developers) and the clocks within that leak and the chip size don't wash as seen throughout this thread.

In conclusion, I doubt that this 'T239' device is releasing this year. Although I offer no hints/proofs beyond the historic pattern of reporting by credible news sources, I propose that this is still ample justification for my claim. If T239-based Switch 2 does release in H2 2023 I will be over the moon personally and you can all laugh at me. I won't much care since, again, I'll look forward to playing on exciting new hardware!

 

[AxkilAvenger]

Does it count as a sacrifice if i preordered the TotK Pro Controller despite owning a perfectly functionable Launch Pro and the nifty MH Rise one?

My rise pro started drifting a month after I bought it. I’m not warning you..I’m just sayin

 

[Gotdatmoneyy]

My rise pro started drifting a month after I bought it. I’m not warning you..I’m just sayin

My rise pro has been going strong since release. My pro from 2018 started drifting around 2020. Just luck of the draw.

 

[Ashee]

My rise pro started drifting a month after I bought it. I’m not warning you..I’m just sayin

Im scared of pre ordering the next console bc of this type of problem... i dont own a switch bc here they cost like us$677(3rd world country for you) and now i can afford it but i dont want to buy one now for get the next gen in less a year(it sounds a lot of time but not to save for something that i guess will be, for my country, aprox us$800 with luck)

So i hope that they learnt about what happened and dont have so many problems

 

[TheSentry]

So, like most of us I’ve been thinking so much about the internal components and specs, but a big aspect of Nintendo hardware are the controls and latest gimmicks (I mean that as a good thing, not derogatory). So, I’ve been think a lot about the controllers too. And the more I think about it, the more I’m convinced the Switch 2 will have a Joy-Con 2.0 of some sort with new features and look a good bit different (which many have probably guessed as well). But I’d like to layout the argument for why I think so and see what people think and hear where most people are on the topic.

1) Nintendo is a company whose goal is to make more money and large portion of their revenue probably comes from accessories from controllers to amiibo. They want to sell people more controllers and joy-cons, and if the new console just uses the old ones then a lot of people might not need/want more. So I believe new joy-cons will keep the gravy train coming for Nintendo.

2) Nintendo likes to innovate and create fun new toys with engaging new gimmicks. Even when they made the GameCube which console wise was just a follow up to N64 as a nicer 3D machine with disc, but when it came to the controller they did the pressure sensitive buttons, added the C-stick, and made a more ergonomic controller (grip-wise AND the big A surrounded by the bean-shaped buttons). A lot of those choices on the GCN controller were iterative but they still went to the drawing board to upgrade the controls. I think Nintendo can’t help themselves and will want upgrade the joy-con after the lessons and ideas they’ve had over the last 6 years.

3) This last one is not from an innovative point of view, but a marketing one. On the one hand I think the Switch form factor will be very similar; portable and dockable system with controls attached. But if the next-gen console just looks like another Switch and just has an upgrade look that’s no more dramatic than the OLED (which is still just a Switch 1) then people are going to think it’s not a next-gen Switch from a marketing perspective and they might have another WiiU situation (which you know they are desperately trying to avoid). So, I believe the best way to distinguish themselves from the previous-gen Switch 1 (Standard, Lite, OLED) would be to make the joy-con look a lot different. Basically the outline and silhouette of the unit and controls needs to standout somehow to make it look like a brand new system. I think one way would be to add actually handles to the joy-cons. Kills two birds with one stone: new look and more ergonomic.

Sure, one of those points by itself might not be convincing, but when you consider all three together I think it makes for a compelling case for Nintendo introducing Joy-cons 2.0 for the next-gen Switch.

Bonus Idea/Prediction:
Nintendo Switch 2’s new gimmick will be you can attach the Joy-con 2.0 to the ‘top and bottom’ of the screen and use the system sideways so that the screen is now tall. This would allow for interesting game ideas AND Nintendo DS and 3DS emulation for Nintendo Online, where the bottom half of the tall screen will be the touch portion.
This would could be a huge marketing push to distinguish the device: “Now you can ‘Switch it up’ in more ways than ever with the new Switch 2!” “Switch It Up!” could be the new marketing tagline for Switch 2 since they have added new switching mechanics and they want you to Upgrade/Switch to the next gen console.

 

[ILikeFeet]

Bonus Idea/Prediction:
Nintendo Switch 2’s new gimmick will be you can attach the Joy-con 2.0 to the ‘top and bottom’ of the screen and use the system sideways so that the screen is now tall. This would allow for interesting game ideas AND Nintendo DS and 3DS emulation for Nintendo Online, where the bottom half of the tall screen will be the touch portion.
This would could be a huge marketing push to distinguish the device: “Now you can ‘Switch it up’ in more ways than ever with the new Switch 2!” “Switch It Up!” could be the new marketing tagline for Switch 2 since they have added new switching mechanics and they want you to Upgrade/Switch to the next gen console.

that will be about as niche as vertical play is now

 

[Hush]

If what he's heard is confidential having heard it is confidential. I don't think there's any room for argument about what the people he's spoken to would want.

Personally, I think the silence speaks volumes. If new hardware were coming FY 2024 I imagine something would've slipped through the cracks after GDC.

But confidentiality to specific sources is entirely separate to a generalized summation of the Switch 2 vibe at GDC. I mean, its no ¨googly side eye¨ that insiders use, but statements like ¨Things seemed hot/cold in regards to Switch 2 at GDC, cant say more¨ are just as harmless and tease what to expect.

Also, with the way the Switch sales have dropped this year and are looking to drop even harder in FY 2024, there is no way a new platform is not going to be out by then.

 

[KeijiKG]

Talking about a possible Headset VR for switch 2 (NS2), I don't know if that possibility is already discussed or not: two switch 2 duck-taped together!

That can be a advantage that only NS2 can have if compared with Ps5 or PC, since it will be already a portable machine, they can put a second T239 inside the helmet. That second Drake will be used to generate only one of the 2 images, while the main switch 2 will generate the other. The helmet will had it's own screen and will not used NS2 screen at all.

Basically, put the NS2 on the Dock, then connect the dock to the helmet via a long cable. If the switch 2 can make 1080p on portable and 4K on docked mode, when it be on VR mode it will have the same power of the dock to make only 1080p and 90fps. This can mean a VR with zero image lost if compare to portable mode.

And that helmet can be cheaper than a Switch 2, since it will not need come with a dock, cartridge port, internal memory and even joycons (we can use the switch 2's joycons). That thing can be the cheapest VR headset on the market. What did you guys think about it?

Meta Quest VR (SoC in headset) route, huh? They'd probably do something less taxing than what you're suggesting. Likely maybe having the headset function more as another display that duplicates the signal on different layers than something with a full chipset. Or some other way that's cost effective and not as clunky. A second chipset in the headset seems like something to drive up the price since the two displays in that tiny headset are still an expense.

Also I think the screen resolution for the VR headset needs at least a 1440p output . Those who used Labo VR should know firsthand that a low-resolution VR doesn't look very pretty, no matter how good a day the user is having. I assume whatever system board MAY be in the headset will likely supplement the display purposes, duplication and upscaling and all.

If it's in the cards, they'll make it work, I'm sure. Plus they're starting to trust digital more as a platform so it's not like supporting the peripheral has as much risk if they can patch things in or have eShop games that take advantage of it. Effectively though, I think they would want to try to make it as affordable but functionally efficient as they can, avoiding a cost like the PSVR2 would be the goal.

 

[KeijiKG]

Bonus Idea/Prediction:
Nintendo Switch 2’s new gimmick will be you can attach the Joy-con 2.0 to the ‘top and bottom’ of the screen and use the system sideways so that the screen is now tall. This would allow for interesting game ideas AND Nintendo DS and 3DS emulation for Nintendo Online, where the bottom half of the tall screen will be the touch portion.
This would could be a huge marketing push to distinguish the device: “Now you can ‘Switch it up’ in more ways than ever with the new Switch 2!” “Switch It Up!” could be the new marketing tagline for Switch 2 since they have added new switching mechanics and they want you to Upgrade/Switch to the next gen console.

They'd be better off packaging a "case" that holds those since implementing those rails might cause physical problems with the docking station.

 

[TheSentry]

that will be about as niche as vertical play is now

I’m mean you’re probably right. Then they’ll come out with the Switch 2 Lite and get rid of the feature all together like they did with the 2DS and the 3D feature.

But I think my idea and argument about a Joy-Con 2.0 still has some weight to it.

 

[ILikeFeet]

I’m mean you’re probably right. Then they’ll come out with the Switch 2 Lite and get rid of the feature all together like they did with the 2DS and the 3D feature.

But I think my idea and argument about a Joy-Con 2.0 still has some weight to it.

vertical play is a dev-created software feature. they can't get rid of it. you can even turn on vertical play for games that have it on the lite

 

[lexony]

I'd say that's more than enough evidence to suggest that Nintendo's audience doesn't have as much brand loyalty compared to the competition.

I don‘t know. I think it has more to do with consistency. The PS and XBOX brand are around for a long time, while Nintendo redoes their branding each time with console features that are sometimes not for everyone, regardless of how much of a Nintendo fan you are.

I think the Switch is different in the sense that it manages to be attractive for a much bigger audience. You don‘t care for handheld play? No problem, just use it as a conventional console. Don‘t want to play with Joycons? There is a Pro Controller for you. The Switch is much less about the hardware itself and more about the games you can play on it.

I think as long as Nintendo dosen‘t makes hardware that gets to much in the way of the games, they will be fine.

 

[Hosermess]

But confidentiality to specific sources is entirely separate to a generalized summation of the Switch 2 vibe at GDC. I mean, its no ¨googly side eye¨ that insiders use, but statements like ¨Things seemed hot/cold in regards to Switch 2 at GDC, cant say more¨ are just as harmless and tease what to expect.

Also, with the way the Switch sales have dropped this year and are looking to drop even harder in FY 2024, there is no way a new platform is not going to be out by then.

I get it, you want something, anything....but if Nate posted a super vague description of the vibe he experienced at GDC in regards to Switch 2 it would be a total shitshow here and on Twitter (oh I forgot on youtube too).

Harmless...lol he doesn't owe us shit and that would not be worth it to him.

 

[alfiehicks]

Any receipts for this? Especially the 'limited funds for marketing' is both hilariously implausible and are you suggesting that Nintendo allowed that Eurogamer article as cheap marketing? A newspiece that at most a few thousand people have actually read?

Oh yeah, totally implausible that they couldn't quite afford a multi-million dollar marketing campaign off the back of literally their worst-performing console ever; two years after their worst fiscal year ever, at a time where brand relevance was at an all time low and a year in which they technically currently had no home console.

You're wording it like I implied that they commissioned Eurogamer to exclusively market the Switch in effort to make my argument sound absurd. What I'm actually saying is that it's plausible that they were deliberately neglectful of leaks during that period in the hope that it'd maintain some kind of momentum before they were ready to officially reveal the Switch.

 

[alfiehicks]

I don‘t know. I think it has more to do with consistency. The PS and XBOX brand are around for a long time, while Nintendo redoes their branding each time

The Wii U and 3DS were clearly direct successors to the Wii and DS, and they weren't instant successes. That implies that there is something about the audience that isn't loyal enough to automatically want the next system, unlike what we see with Xbox and PlayStation.

Ultimately, my point is that people aren't going to buy [REDACTED] unless it has a lineup of games that aren't cross-generation. One or two cross-gen games? Absolutely. Every single game being cross-gen? Smells like a flop of a system - which would actually be a good thing for us, because it would mean Nintendo can't just coast on free money.

 

[Sin Drive]

Oh yeah, totally implausible that they couldn't quite afford a multi-million dollar marketing campaign off the back of literally their worst-performing console ever; two years after their worst fiscal year ever, at a time where brand relevance was at an all time low and a year in which they technically currently had no home console.

You're wording it like I implied that they commissioned Eurogamer to exclusively market the Switch in effort to make my argument sound absurd. What I'm actually saying is that it's plausible that they were deliberately neglectful of leaks during that period in the hope that it'd maintain some kind of momentum before they were ready to officially reveal the Switch.

I don't really understand your point. Majority of consumers do not pay attention to leaks so I'm not sure how this "stealth marketing," would be helpful. Nintendo didn't lose all their money on the WiiU and afterwards still had a ginormous marketing push for the Switch, partially evident by the Superbowl advert they had before the console launch. If you think it's plausible because you wish to believe that, by all means. But I'm not seeing anything weighing that theory to reality.

 

[Hush]

I get it, you want something, anything....but if Nate posted a super vague description of the vibe he experienced at GDC in regards to Switch 2 it would be a total shitshow here and on Twitter (oh I forgot on youtube too).

Harmless...lol he doesn't owe us shit and that would not be worth it to him.

Nah things that cause a shit show are statements like ¨I heard things which you will either really like or really hate, depending on where you stand¨ which mean absolutely nothing and is just covering all bases. If its a vague but meaningful morsel of a statement I doubt it will cause a stir.

 

[Tentacle-tropes]

The Wii U and 3DS were clearly direct successors to the Wii and DS, and they weren't instant successes. That implies that there is something about the audience that isn't loyal enough to automatically want the next system, unlike what we see with Xbox and PlayStation.

Ultimately, my point is that people aren't going to buy [REDACTED] unless it has a lineup of games that aren't cross-generation. One or two cross-gen games? Absolutely. Every single game being cross-gen? Smells like a flop of a system - which would actually be a good thing for us, because it would mean Nintendo can't just coast on free money.

The WiiU was a beyond flawed device that needed to be completely redone before it had a chance of selling anything significant
The 3DS shoot itself completely in the foot with the starting price & having to compete with mobile. Even then it still did ~75mil.
I’m not seeing how we can use these devices as proof the audience isn’t loyal with a direct successor.

Nor am I really sure how having a lineup of cross-gen games is gonna prevent people from buying the next system. I’m also laughing at this notion of Nintendo coasting on “free money”, whatever that is supposed to mean.

 

[alfiehicks]

I don't really understand your point. Majority of consumers do not pay attention to leaks so I'm not sure how this "stealth marketing," would be helpful. Nintendo didn't lose all their money on the WiiU and afterwards still had a ginormous marketing push for the Switch, partially evident by the Superbowl advert they had before the console launch. If you think it's plausible because you wish to believe that, by all means. But I'm not seeing anything weighing that theory to reality.

It wasn't a "majority of consumers" deal. Nintendo was on the verge of becoming irrelevant to Nintendo fans. 2016 was almost unimaginably dire in retrospect, I can understand that it might be hard to believe.

And yeah, you're exactly confirming my point: the Switch had a huge marketing push... a few months before it released. The short turnaround from reveal to release wasn't a choice. They didn't have the money for a year of hype-building. They had to stall until they could make it look like everything was fine.

 

[SiG]

Different audience.

Xbox and PlayStation cater to the "casual adult", who has the money to just buy the new thing because its the new thing. The same people who buy the new iPhone even though their old one works fine.

Nintendo's audience is "casual family", who are not predisposed to buying the new thing for the sake of it. Parents need to be able to see that the new system is actually worth spending money on, and if it doesn't have any games that aren't also available on the Switch they already own, then they're not going to drop $400 on it.

Disagree with assessment. Nintendo has been aiming for "casual adult" since Day 1. Did you not see the very first Nintendo Switch trailer?

 

[ILikeFeet]

And yeah, you're exactly confirming my point: the Switch had a huge marketing push... a few months before it released. The short turnaround from reveal to release wasn't a choice. They didn't have the money for a year of hype-building. They had to stall until they could make it look like everything was fine.

what proof do you have of these claims?

 

[chocolate_supra]

Disagree with assessment. Nintendo has been aiming for "casual adult" since Day 1. Did you not see the very first Nintendo Switch trailer?

Yeah I'd say the Switch's initial marketing campaign was a deliberate attempt to get away from the "Nintendo is for families" stereotype.

 

[alfiehicks]

The 3DS shoot itself completely in the foot with the starting price & having to compete with mobile. Even then it still did ~75mil.

The fact that it had to compete with mobile only confirms my point! If Nintendo's audience had brand loyalty, they wouldn't consider mobile games as a replacement for a Nintendo system.

Nor am I really sure how having a lineup of cross-gen games is gonna prevent people from buying the next system.

We have reached a point where almost everyone that wants a Switch already owns one, ergo, they already own a platform that can play the next-generation games without having to buy the new system. I don't see how you don't see that as a massive obstacle to [REDACTED]'s sales.

I’m also laughing at this notion of Nintendo coasting on “free money”, whatever that is supposed to mean.

Nintendo's game output on Switch has been positively lethargic. Coasting on free money is acting like a port or remaster or 1:1 remake fills the slot of a brand-new release. Coasting on free money means drip-feeding ROM's on a monthly basis. It means charging an exorbitant price for a subscription to an online service that is not even a slight improvement over the previously free service.

 

[Hush]

It wasn't a "majority of consumers" deal. Nintendo was on the verge of becoming irrelevant to Nintendo fans. 2016 was almost unimaginably dire in retrospect, I can understand that it might be hard to believe.

And yeah, you're exactly confirming my point: the Switch had a huge marketing push... a few months before it released. The short turnaround from reveal to release wasn't a choice. They didn't have the money for a year of hype-building. They had to stall until they could make it look like everything was fine.

Thats just how the industry is today. The PS5 had a logo reveal and a controller reveal, both which were random drops and not high scale marketing moves until the June reveal showcase which was 5 months before launch. You dont have to hype your product for a year or a year and a half for word to catch on like you did before the stage of social media we are in.

 

[alfiehicks]

Disagree with assessment. Nintendo has been aiming for "casual adult" since Day 1. Did you not see the very first Nintendo Switch trailer?

They initially marketed to that demographic because they knew that those were the most reliable people who were interested in Nintendo at the time. As the Switch has built momentum, they've skewed more towards the family demographic, even if their generic hardware adverts don't show it.

 

[lexony]

The Wii U and 3DS were clearly direct successors to the Wii and DS, and they weren't instant successes. That implies that there is something about the audience that isn't loyal enough to automatically want the next system, unlike what we see with Xbox and PlayStation.

My argument is that the competition at that time just had the better products. The WiiU had to fight against much stronger consoles with way more exclusive games. The 3DS got competition from the mobile market and still managed to sell over 70 million units. Like if people only go to the next console out of brand loyalty, why did the Vita and the XBOX ONE fail? Why did the PS3 initially sell worse than the XBOX360? Like even the WiiU had a well-ish launch at first.

If you don‘t have a compelling product and in the case of the WiiU don’t know how to advertise it while it even is actively making the experience for Users and Developers worse, than yeah consumers will look for alternatives.

 

[Sin Drive]

They initially marketed to that demographic because they knew that those were the most reliable people who were interested in Nintendo at the time. As the Switch has built momentum, they've skewed more towards the family demographic, even if their generic hardware adverts don't show it.

So how do you know their marketing shifted if it didn't show it?

 

[Concernt]

I think it is extremely unlikely that the announcement will be made before TotK's release; we cannot afford to have TotK OLEDs in bad inventory.
Even if it were to be released at the end of 2023, they would delay the announcement until July.

We cannot afford to
We

Nintendo executive spotted.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Case in point, Fire Emblem Warriors (the first one) can do 1080p in portable mode…. Despite not being on a 1080p screen.

I think you're thinking of the first Hyrule Warriors, which infamously runs a lot worse in portable because the resolution doesn't change. FE Warriors is the one that docked allows you to choose between 720p60 and 1080p30, but portable is just 720p30.

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

But their localization vendor/manufacturer are not.

That’s not really in their control though. Supply chain leaks happen to everyone. And localization has been pretty sparse outside of Pokémon which is a giant franchise by itself.

When you actually observe Nintendo, they are really secretive.

Sony is also really secretive, but things slip through the cracks from partners and such to the press, like with FFXVI, or the accidental leaking of BluePoint being acquired.


But then you have Microsoft…. Who can’t keep a secret to save their damn life.

 

[Hush]

I would love for Nintendo´s typically positioned June Direct to end with a Switch 2 tease and a July dated showcase for a Holiday 2023 launch.

 

[LukasManak22]

The first (and only) time when 3D Mario was released on launch of next system was N64. This is gonna be epic, new 3D Mario on a new console since the day 1.

 

[Deleted member 887]

And yeah, you're exactly confirming my point: the Switch had a huge marketing push... a few months before it released. The short turnaround from reveal to release wasn't a choice. They didn't have the money for a year of hype-building. They had to stall until they could make it look like everything was fine.

This is not factual, as made clear by the gigaleak. Marketing money is the one thing they did have, as Nintendo had cash reserves but no solid future income stream. Nintendo could afford to advertise the Switch, what they couldn't afford was a Switch failure.

The Switch marketing plan was carefully calibrated to project confidence, yes, but it wasn't a lack of money.

They initially marketed to that demographic because they knew that those were the most reliable people who were interested in Nintendo at the time.

Also demonstrably false. These were the least interested in Nintendo at the time, as Nintendo had lost those customers to other platforms. Nintendo's position in the market had slipped so far away from core gamers, that with the Switch the core gamer market was Nintendo's Blue Ocean.

As the Switch has built momentum, they've skewed more towards the family demographic, even if their generic hardware adverts don't show it.

If their advertising doesn't show it, in what way has it skewed more family? The library?

2017 Nintendo published Switch games: 1-2-Switch, ARMS, Fire Emblem Warriors, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, Pokkén Tournament DX, Snipperclips, Snipperclips Plus, Splatoon 2, Super Mario Odyssey, Breath of the Wild, Xenoblade Chronicles 2

2022 Nintendo Published Switch Games: Bayonetta 3, Kirby and the Forgotten Land, Arceus, Scarlet/Violet, Splatoon 3, Triangle Strategy, Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes, Mario Strikers: Battle League, Kirby's Dream Buffet

Bolded titles are "family" titles in the most extreme sense I could imagine. I think this overstates the case, and it doesn't show any divergence toward family titles. If the marketing isn't "family" and the library isn't "family" then what the hell is?

 

[daybreak]

It wasn't a "majority of consumers" deal. Nintendo was on the verge of becoming irrelevant to Nintendo fans. 2016 was almost unimaginably dire in retrospect, I can understand that it might be hard to believe.

And yeah, you're exactly confirming my point: the Switch had a huge marketing push... a few months before it released. The short turnaround from reveal to release wasn't a choice. They didn't have the money for a year of hype-building. They had to stall until they could make it look like everything was fine.

I'd need to see a source for anything that implies Nintendo "didn't have the money", considering they're a public company and we know that their cash on hand was around $5 billion USD at the end of their fiscal year in March 2016 (PDF Source).

By November 2017 they had increased their cash reserves to ~$7 billion USD (Toyo Keizai Source). They had been posting deficits for years but Nintendo has been an absurdly cash-rich company since the Wii years and they were nowhere near any sort of monetary trouble.

The Switch marketing wasn't Nintendo having their hand forced, it was Nintendo playing their cards well.

 

[NineTailSage]

First two years maximum. Nintendo have been good with managing stock of hardware while the competition have struggled - I don't expect it to be too difficult to get hold of one when it releases. Though yeah, for a while, it's mainly the core audience.

It's also perfectly possible for a system to be a hit with early adopters, and then struggle to catch on with the casual demographic. As I've mentioned earlier, though, I don't think it would be bad for us if [REDACTED] isn't a runaway success. Nintendo could stand to lose some of their bullish attitude.

You could, yeah, but there's factual, historical evidence to confirm that Nintendo's primary audience are not just automatically willing to buy a successor to a system they own without enough reason to persuade them to. You can't just refute that with biased, tangential nonsense.

I didn't say it had anything to do with age, though.

We saw the Wii U flop even though the Wii was a runaway success. The 3DS struggled to make much of a splash for a while even though it was literally just a DS but better. Before that, the N64 sold miserably compared to the PS1, even though the SNES was the most popular platform of its generation.

I'd say that's more than enough evidence to suggest that Nintendo's audience doesn't have as much brand loyalty compared to the competition. This could easily be because a lot of people see Nintendo as a supplementary option, rather than having that mutual exclusivity that they have with either a PlayStation or an Xbox, they'll buy a Nintendo system in addition to whichever other platform they have, but only if it provides them with a significant enough reason to buy it.

I do believe for all of these statements the biggest difference from Nintendo's past going into their current situation, is that Nintendo were competing with a very similar form factor to their competitors. The GC, N64 and WiiU were all stationary consoles that didn't offer something vastly different in the options for gaming like the Switch does.

Timing is also very important and that's why many of us keep saying, yes the Switch is an absolute hit but Nintendo has failed in the past to strike while the iron is hot. The Wii was a runaway hit because of the casual market, but Switch has sustained such a dominance for so long because of its hooks with the core gaming audience. The system also isn't competing with many others for space in the go anywhere gaming devices, so a more powerful evolution of the Switch form factor with the right timing is certain to continue selling in a similar fashion to the current model.

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

Also I have no idea wtf is going on in here anymore

 

[Bonejack]

Also I have no idea wtf is going on in here anymore

Want me to start asking for Scrollwheel-Shoulderbuttons again?

 

[Deleted member 887]

Also I have no idea wtf is going on in here anymore

Eternal September - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ShaunSwitch]

Nintendo executive spotted.

Majimazio can be rearranged to Mija Mazio, it's a me Mario, miyamoto! Ha! Got em!

 

[LoneRanger]

OreXda has now indirectly confirmed to not have reliable "sources" when Nintendo's concerned.

If that what he is saying is truth and nintendo has delivered “final dev kits” to all developers, including indies, we should start hearing something in 1/2 months.

IIRC, Switch final dev kits were delivered by september/october per some indie developers comment (i think it was shinen..)

 

[Concernt]

Majimazio can be rearranged to Mija Mazio, it's a me Mario, miyamoto! Ha! Got em!

Mija Mazio sounds like an actual Italian name.

 

[Concernt]

If that what he is saying is truth and nintendo has delivered “final dev kits” to all developers, including indies, we should start hearing something in 1/2 months.

IIRC, Switch final dev kits were delivered by september/october per some indie developers comment (i think it was shinen..)

Yeah, late 2023 release it is. LET'S-A-GO!

These are the kits for final testing since the bulk of development would have happened in the virtual SDK.

 

[Instro]

OreXda has now indirectly confirmed to not have reliable "sources" when Nintendo's concerned.

Not to doom and gloom, and not that I trust this person at all, but the only people who claimed dev kits were out there, have either never mentioned it again, or have since claimed that the hardware they heard about was canceled. If the hardware is further out than anticipated, it wouldn't exactly be shocking if dev kits are only just getting distributed. It would also explain why we have very little info or leaks outside of the Nvidia hack.

On the other hand they could just be taking about final dev kits or whatever. Or be a complete fraudster.

 

[Tentacle-tropes]

The fact that it had to compete with mobile only confirms my point! If Nintendo's audience had brand loyalty, they wouldn't consider mobile games as a replacement for a Nintendo system.

As we see with the Switch, Nintendo’s audience has brand loyalty when the company isn’t stepping over its feet to the point of tearing them off. Even 3DS to a degree shows this. Like it was so bad most people don’t recognize WiiU as its own device; so to them the Switch was Nintendo’s product. Mobile games will always be competition especially during the period of late Wii till 2016 where no one was servicing their needs except mobile.

We have reached a point where almost everyone that wants a Switch already owns one, ergo, they already own a platform that can play the next-generation games without having to buy the new system. I don't see how you don't see that as a massive obstacle to [REDACTED]'s sales.

It’s really not this massive obstacle your making it out to be. If they have a clear plan both into & out of cross-Gen, then frankly nothing is really gonna happen to sales. The only thing stopping sales is performing another ill-conceived device like the WiiU or a massive blunder like 3DS.

Nintendo's game output on Switch has been positively lethargic. Coasting on free money is acting like a port or remaster or 1:1 remake fills the slot of a brand-new release. Coasting on free money means drip-feeding ROM's on a monthly basis. It means charging an exorbitant price for a subscription to an online service that is not even a slight improvement over the previously free service.

• If they were coasting then the release schedule would look more like the end of Wii & the entire lifespan of WiiU then what we see now.
• Let’s not act like a remaster, of say Metroid Fusion, wouldn’t been seen as a new release for quite a bit of the audience considering time, platform, & sales of when the original came out. Besides not everything needs to be a brand new ip for release.
• If they were coasting then either they wouldn’t have brought back their roms or just left it at (S)NES. Instead they are expanding and bringing new games & consoles to the service. Hell they probably wouldn’t be trying to improve their emulation either.
• This “exorbitant” price is 20:50$/yr or 35:80$/yr (split between multiple people). These can be split further into cheaper prices depending on time frame. While they need to improve their online, Nintendo has also done quite a bit of things to provide value for people on the service.

As it stands the things you describe as “free money” is industry wide at this point. They are not “coasting” but are investing that money into expansion both inward & outward endeavors. Yet, at the same time still putting large amounts of cash into R&D & their primary business. Their release schedule reflects this with a consistent stream of games on a yearly basis. They consistently are one of the biggest publishers yearly. You don’t get that by following the Sony model for instance.