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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

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Serif said:
Please work now, I much prefer talking about specs stuff in here, I get less of a headache. I literally read a post elsewhere that said console optimization doesn't make a meaningful difference .
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Interesting 🤔 , you'd suggest there would be some recency bias considering the current system has bespoke and optimised ports for certain 3rd party games. Thus, a successor potentially being more in line with modern standards, competent upscale and better hardware for RT, allow for ports that may not have to cutback as much to achieve a certain fidelity.

Moreover, it's odd how one can say that console optimizations don't make a meaningful difference, when we literally had a GDC conference regarding Avatar:Frontiers of pandora where they specifically optimize their RT GI + reflection and denoising to achieve the performance target. The slide is literally called GI + Reflection optimisation. This goes for countless games, especially the PS5 whose API has been more production ready and is also the primary development target as DF has mentioned before.

The Switch will be likely no different, and that's something different from all these PC-based handhelds. When Steam Deck 2 or w/e stronger pc based handheld comes along the road, there'll be close comparisons being made, and I have no doubt that the Switch 2 will punch above its weight.
Unless NVIDIA does a funny thing and releases their own handheld 😂 .
 
Took forever trying to catch up on the last 18 hours, but these are all pretty neat revelations! Also it's a dick move to make an account here just to spread the hidden tagged info elsewhere!

Hidden content is only available for registered users. Sharing it outside of Famiboards is subject to moderation.
 
Did Nintendo do any tech demos for the switch? As in publicly. I hope we can see some for switch 2 especially if it's an iterative upgrade.
 
BabyDontHurtMe said:
That is true. I think the only thing that was underwhelming at the time was the internal storage. Which ironically enough is another point of contention with the Switch 2 specs.
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Yeah I think it was comparable with mobile phones at the time but was rough for game storage. Thankfully SD cards are plentiful.
With UFS 3.1 I don't think normal SD will cut it if you want to run Switch 2 games specifically.
 
Brofield said:
Took forever trying to catch up on the last 18 hours, but these are all pretty neat revelations! Also it's a dick move to make an account here just to spread the hidden tagged info elsewhere!

* Hidden text: cannot be quoted. *
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Especially with the servers crashing dozens of times.
 
Goodtwin said:
Are we sure the internal storage will run at max speed? Is it possible to run at a lower speed to decrease power draw?
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In such a case, the chain will only be as strong as its weakest link. For storage compatibility's sake, whichever is the slowest, whether that be the cartridge, SSD, or external storage, that will set the speed for all the other ones.
 
Homura said:
The one "because Nintendo" that is likely to happen is calling the successor Switch Attach. (Or another terrible name)
THAT's what people should be worried about, the hardware itself is great.
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Whatever name they give it is going to sound wrong at first. And I'm probably going to hate it. But it'll become normal really quick, so I'm not too worried about it.
 
ChinoCE said:
I'm terrible at all this techy stuff, but do you have an easy to understand explanation to why this is the case? It's ok if you have to be technichal about it, i'll do my best to understand lol.
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Mainly, 8N does not seem likely with 12SMs in the picture, and we know Switch 2 has 12SMs based on nvidia leaks.

Good writeup on the topic

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Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

Oldpuck's leaving #teamleapday? Guess I'll have to continue flying the flag solo. On the time of 18 to 24 months from sampling to release, I assume you're talking about the TX1 and the original Switch? If so, I don't think it's really comparable, as TX1 was already entering production...
famiboards.com famiboards.com
 
eye0h said:
Did Nintendo do any tech demos for the switch? As in publicly. I hope we can see some for switch 2 especially if it's an iterative upgrade.
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I think it had a few booths set up in stores and in conventions like South by Southwest.

Privately they had a lot of demoes, one of which impressed Todd Howard so much that they worked out a deal to port Skyrim and get it ready for launch year then and there. He called it the best demo he ever saw.
 
BDGAME said:
I don't believe Switch 2 will use low quality assets.

The machine that have these is the XBox Series S because it targeting on 1080p only, but switch 2 probably will try to make a bigger resolutions, thanks to DLSS.

For what I read here, DLSS still needs the high quality textures to make a game in 4K. So, switch 2 will need to send these for the cuda cores and gpu do the trick.
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It's preferable, sure, but there are always considerations beyond just what will look best. Game size, load times, bandwidth limits, RAM limits, whatever. Series S also frequently targets 1440p.
 
Joy-Boy said:
I think it had a few booths set up in stores and in conventions like South by Southwest.

Privately they had a lot of demoes, one of which impressed Todd Howard so much that they worked out a deal to port Skyrim and get it ready for launch year then and there. He called it the best demo he ever saw.
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By Todd's standards, "the best demo" in his eyes is probably just showing that he can do another port of Skyrim on it.
 
Steve said:
Pessimism is understandable, when Nintendo is transition off of one of the biggest gaming console in recent memory.

Personally I feel like 6nm might happen, but 4 TSMC would be an absolute dream.

The best we can do is wait and see if we’ll hear more rumours or confirmation from Nintendo.
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TSMC 4N is not dream, is reality man
 
darthdiablo said:
Mainly, 8N does not seem likely with 12SMs in the picture, and we know Switch 2 has 12SMs based on nvidia leaks.

Good writeup on the topic

famiboards.com

Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

Oldpuck's leaving #teamleapday? Guess I'll have to continue flying the flag solo. On the time of 18 to 24 months from sampling to release, I assume you're talking about the TX1 and the original Switch? If so, I don't think it's really comparable, as TX1 was already entering production...
famiboards.com famiboards.com
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7hatDeadCat said:
you can read this post from thraktor, he does a really good job of putting into words why the other nodes just kinda dont make much sense
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Thanks for the replies, guys!
 
redmutineer75 said:
By Todd's standards, "the best demo" in his eyes is probably just showing that he can do another port of Skyrim on it.
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aaronpaul-aaron.gif
 
Reddit helped me realize I accidentally muted this thread, so I'm glad it brought me back as I was missing this discussion haha.

Now that component shipping is happening though, I have a sneaking suspicion we'll be seeing some factory "leaks" and and fake designs. Time to fire up the extra boosters on the ol' BS detector again
 
Tall Leprechaun said:
Now that component shipping is happening though, I have a sneaking suspicion we'll be seeing some factory "leaks" and and fake designs. Time to fire up the extra boosters on the ol' BS detector again
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Yeah we'll probably see a bunch of fake assembled units and such even though manufacturing hasn't started. Will be pretty easy to weed out the fake ones, for now at least.
 
How do we think the new data will affect the launch price of the hardware? It seems that signs are generally positive, do we think we're looking at a $450 or even $500 device here? Or is $400 still realistic?
 
Brofield said:
Took forever trying to catch up on the last 18 hours, but these are all pretty neat revelations! Also it's a dick move to make an account here just to spread the hidden tagged info elsewhere!

* Hidden text: cannot be quoted. *
Click to expand...

Hidden content is only available for registered users. Sharing it outside of Famiboards is subject to moderation.
 
bmfrosty said:
Right. It's more than a page an hour. It's really hard to keep up.
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I can't tell if you're sarcastic 😅

But last I checked I had 7 new pages to go through, then the site crashed. So I went to bed. Woke up and it grew to 16 new pages. I did some morning chores and now it's 18.
 
ceres15 said:
How do we think the new data will affect the launch price of the hardware? It seems that signs are generally positive, do we think we're looking at a $450 or even $500 device here? Or is $400 still realistic?
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i think $400 is super likely
 
redmutineer75 said:
By Todd's standards, "the best demo" in his eyes is probably just showing that he can do another port of Skyrim on it.
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being a Bethesda fan, feels like you’re in a relationship with someone whose always saying they’ll be better, but somehow they manage to disappoint you in every step of the way.
Also Skyrim port for Switch 2 will go hard

h046kusftza31.jpg
 
darthdiablo said:
How do others feel about those bulletpoints being paraded around?
  • Handheld: Right above PS4* before DLSS
  • Docked: Between PS4 Pro* & Xbox Series S* before DLSS with more modern hardware than the former
  • RAM: Slower than PS5 & XSX|S in
    the speed department, but more capacity than XSS. Should have 10.5-11 GB
    of RAM available to games going by the Switch 1's RAM allotment for its
    OS.
  • Storage: UFS 3.1's max speeds should be a hair under XSX|S (2.1 GB/s vs. 2.4 GB/s), still plenty fast even if not maxed out.Lines up with what Digital Foundry &
    NateDrake heard about decompression techniques & fast load times of
    the BotW tech demo (respectively for each source).
I have always thought trying to say "this is where Switch 2 will be in relative to XSS, PS5, PS4 Pro, etc" is an exercise in futility because the architectures are more than a bit different. As in Switch 2 will excel in areas, but not other areas, compared to XSS, SD, etc.

It's a bit disappointing to see those bulletpoints being pushed/shared in various places (like Twitter for example) more than the shipment data findings have been - because I feel like those kind of assessments can be a bit subjective, I'd rather just stick to the cold hard facts (12GB, 256 UFS 3.1, etc).
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I hate the bullet points...I understand it's someone trying to put things in layman terms but it feels disingenuous to say the switch 2 is between the ps4 pro and series s. It's almost as they're ignoring the fact that the Switch 2 is using a modern architecture and it will certainly end up playing games that the ps4 pro cannot run.

I would say that the series s ≥ switch 2 docked when it comes to cpu intensive tasks but the switch 2 ≥ series s when it comes to gpu intensive tasks. So it's almost safe to say that both consoles will be trading blows at the end of the day.
 
Steve said:
What’s happening bro? Let me guess ,,because Nintendo’’
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It just feels behind on...everything. I can't take for granted how up to date this entire thread has been.

There were one or two "lol 256GB internal storage" but it is what it is.
 
is it just me or is everyone feeling a great amount of relief from this info?

Psamtik said:
The next Zelda is going to look so good.
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just thinking about it makes me want to do another BoTW or ToTK run...
Steve said:
What’s happening bro? Let me guess ,,because Nintendo’’
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it's not bad really. There are couple shitposters but it's actually very positive so idk what is so bad especially when they haven't been as obsessed about this stuff like we have. The worst has been the 256gb storage but it ain't that bad. 1 was a classic drive-by post lol
 
Alovon11 said:
umm...No?

Yes, RDNA2 On Desktop has a notable advantage....when 2CUs outperform 1SM.

BUT that is due to Infinity Cache and their super high clocks. The reduction in stalling it provides combined with the raw cycles it can output in a given time due to the clockspeed allow it to overtake Ampere as 2CUs become more efficient than 1 Ampere SM (Same Shader count with 64 per CU in RDNA2 and 128 per SM in Ampere)

However, Series S has NONE of that


No Infinity Cache, No High Clocks (Series S is1.56-ish GHz vs the well excess of 2GHz of the rest of RDNA2's stack).

So the super low Warp/Scheduler count pretty much gets stuck behind a solid wall whenever you give it any major workload.

Meanwhile Ampere (and Switch 2 especially) has the width RDNA2 lacks. Meaning it can get a larger workload and work through it with the bottlenecks being inner-GPU Stalling and raw compute time versus a raw size limit that RDNA can run into easily (and attempts to bruteforce via high clocks and Infinity Cache)

So, Switch 2, at what is increasingly appearing to be at 1.3GHz docked, will pretty much have everything going for it


T239 GPU: 576 Warps, 48 Schedulers, 1536 Shaders, 12 RT cores, and 48 Tensor cores to spread workload within a warp on, RT Cores are so fast the bottleneck is the shaders delivering the final result ironically, Tensor cores can work with Mixed-Precision workloads and INT-Focus workloads. Half each SM's Shaders can also work in INT32 Mode to further accelerate RT.

Series S GPU: 640 Warps, but only 40 Schedulers. With only 1280 Shaders in isolation to spread work onto. Doubly hurt by the fact that RDNA2 RT devotes a full CU of Shaders/Warps to that task (literally turns off the TMUs in the CU). So Not only does it lack Tensor Core hardware to offload things like Upscaling, Denoising. But RT especially saps resources more than it is maximizing them. That is before you consider how AMD's Ray Accelerators in RDNA2 are so slow that A SINGLE NVIDIA RT Core at 1GHz can outpace every Ray accelerator in the PS5 combined.

So Switch 2 can do more work more efficiently than Series S as it has more resources to spread work across and it can "plan" ahead of time more.

If Series S had Infinity Cache, it'd probably outpace Switch 2 (outside of RT). But without it? RDNA's stalling problem comes in to play again and with a vengeance with the lower-than average clockspeed (lower than even Steam Deck's peak clock).


If you wanted to match Switch 2 consistently (again sans RT) with a IC-less RDNA2 GPU, you'd need 24CUs at minimum. Which we sort of see with Series X having a lower clock but going for a very wide layout to try to avoid the overallocation problem to an extent (meanwhile PS5 falls more in-line with Desktop RDNA2's sensibilities of Narrow and High Clocked)
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This is a flex in a half.
 
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