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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

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HankyPanky said:
not the first time that node or some type of Samsung node starting with 7 has been mentioned. rumours it was that or a similar node were circulating a long time back but quickly dismissed.

sounds very possible to me - we already know 8nm may not have been as bad it as seems with Lovelace efficiency improvements (that low-end card on SEC 8nm being quite efficient was a clue) so a slightly better node could work. the economics are obvious and right in-front of us - deal with Samsung to produce most of the components in the new device.
Click to expand...

Lovelace's efficiency improvement is moving from Samsung N8 to TSMC N4. Aside from a few tweaks here and there (mainly to the RT cores) and much larger caches, Lovelace is largely a port of Ampere onto N4, and the efficiency improvements are pretty much exactly what we'd expect from the node difference. Some small things like added clock gating may make a small difference, but they're very minor in comparison to the node change.

Regarding the "Nintendo will get a good deal off Samsung if they get many parts off them" theory, which seems to come up a lot, Nintendo doesn't buy SoCs off Samsung, they buy them off Nvidia. Samsung can't give Nintendo a deal on something they're not selling them. Besides, Nvidia is already one of the largest spenders on foundry services in the world, so it's not like Nintendo need to be involved for Samsung to have an incentive to give Nvidia a good deal. Even aside from this, Samsung Foundry is functionally a separate company from Samsung Display, which is also functionally a separate company from Samsung Memory, so such a deal would be extremely complex if even possible at all.

I also don't think the "buy everything off Samsung and get a good deal" makes sense from Nintendo's perspective, even ignoring the SoC. For a device that's expected to stay on the market for a long time, like a games console, it's very important to be able to multi-source as many components as possible, to minimise dependency on individual suppliers and allow costs to be reduced over time. The two components Samsung would be most likely to contribute, RAM and storage, are also the two components which are easiest to multi-source, as LPDDR and UFS are commoditised, and there's no reason to lock yourself into a single supplier for either of them. If they were to go with an OLED screen, then they may lock themselves into a deal with Samsung just from practicality's sake, as there are so few suppliers, but screens are something they'd like to multi-source if at all possible (and may be a reason for them to launch with an LCD panel).

Even the indication that Samsung will be making Switch 2 game cards is pointing away from exclusive deals with individual suppliers. Nintendo were effectively locked into a single supplier for Switch game cards (Macronix/MegaChips), and evidence points to them multi-sourcing from both Samsung and Macronix for Switch 2.
 
i think we're going to need another 20 pages of node discussion to clear things up. the thing about the device being smaller than the SD which presumably refers to the depth is encouraging for a better node? or is the jury still out, it would be nice to put the 8nm thing to rest but you never know...
 
Say it was a typo, and it's Samsung 7LPP rather than the mythical 7LPH.

Is 7LPP any good, or is it shit like what I'm about to do here in a few minutes time?
 
I’m curious how likely is the 7LPH vs the 4TSMC.

Also I’m curious if these two articles will open a floodgates from other sources and businesses.

At the end if the switch 2 on handheld is 30-50% more powerful than the base ps4, than i would be satisfied.

Also just to say it’s extremely fun speculating with everyone here, y’all are so knowledgeable

Special shout-out to @Thraktor, @oldpuck and @darthdiablo. Y’all are really knowledgeable and your speculations are some of my highlight of the day.
 
Thraktor said:
Lovelace's efficiency improvement is moving from Samsung N8 to TSMC N4. Aside from a few tweaks here and there (mainly to the RT cores) and much larger caches, Lovelace is largely a port of Ampere onto N4, and the efficiency improvements are pretty much exactly what we'd expect from the node difference. Some small things like added clock gating may make a small difference, but they're very minor in comparison to the node change.

Regarding the "Nintendo will get a good deal off Samsung if they get many parts off them" theory, which seems to come up a lot, Nintendo doesn't buy SoCs off Samsung, they buy them off Nvidia. Samsung can't give Nintendo a deal on something they're not selling them. Besides, Nvidia is already one of the largest spenders on foundry services in the world, so it's not like Nintendo need to be involved for Samsung to have an incentive to give Nvidia a good deal. Even aside from this, Samsung Foundry is functionally a separate company from Samsung Display, which is also functionally a separate company from Samsung Memory, so such a deal would be extremely complex if even possible at all.

I also don't think the "buy everything off Samsung and get a good deal" makes sense from Nintendo's perspective, even ignoring the SoC. For a device that's expected to stay on the market for a long time, like a games console, it's very important to be able to multi-source as many components as possible, to minimise dependency on individual suppliers and allow costs to be reduced over time. The two components Samsung would be most likely to contribute, RAM and storage, are also the two components which are easiest to multi-source, as LPDDR and UFS are commoditised, and there's no reason to lock yourself into a single supplier for either of them. If they were to go with an OLED screen, then they may lock themselves into a deal with Samsung just from practicality's sake, as there are so few suppliers, but screens are something they'd like to multi-source if at all possible (and may be a reason for them to launch with an LCD panel).

Even the indication that Samsung will be making Switch 2 game cards is pointing away from exclusive deals with individual suppliers. Nintendo were effectively locked into a single supplier for Switch game cards (Macronix/MegaChips), and evidence points to them multi-sourcing from both Samsung and Macronix for Switch 2.
Click to expand...

does the 20% number that was thrown around seem accurate? i was under the impression that being on N4 would potentially be a much larger efficiency gain (like up to 100%), clocks dependent.
 
Lugia667 said:
I mean look at all the ps5 pro leaks and Sony has said nothing either
Click to expand...
What do you mean, a whole ass document was leaked 😭 and MLID somehow for some way got his hands on it.

Edit: miss read it, but still somehow a document got leaked, revealing the specs, which is something we still haven’t gotten. Sony fans are feasting with credible information
 
HankyPanky said:
does the 20% number that was thrown around seem accurate? i was under the impression that being on N4 would potentially be a much larger efficiency gain (like up to 100%), clocks dependent.
Click to expand...

I don't know what 20% you're referring to, but the expected efficiency improvement from N8 to N4 was around 2x, and Lovelace is around 2x as efficient as Ampere (ie for the same size GPU running at the same clocks, it consumes around half the power). Architectural improvements would maybe account for 5% difference in efficiency, but it's impossible to say, as we don't have any way to test them in isolation, and Nvidia haven't documented them at all.
 
Steve said:
What do you mean, a whole ass document was leaked 😭 and MLID somehow for some way got his hands on it.

Edit: miss read it, but still somehow a document got leaked, revealing the specs, which is something we still haven’t gotten. Sony fans are feasting with credible information
Click to expand...
Wtf?
 
Lugia667 said:
It is nice to see this topic not in despair mode though :)
Click to expand...
despair node

Steve said:
What do you mean, a whole ass document was leaked 😭 and MLID somehow for some way got his hands on it.

Edit: miss read it, but still somehow a document got leaked, revealing the specs, which is something we still haven’t gotten. Sony fans are feasting with credible information
Click to expand...
On the contrary, Nintendo fans have been feasting on credible information for so damn long that they're now hungry again. The Nvidia hack gave us almost all the specs and that was years ago now. We just don't know the RAM, clocks, or the node but what we do know is so thorough we can make educated guesses about the rest. That's not bad for what will likely be three years before release.
 
Lugia667 said:
It is nice to see this topic not in despair mode though :)
Click to expand...

giphy.gif
 
Red hot prediction:

There's no new Pro Controller.

Since the device is branded "Nintendo Switch [Subtitle]" or "[Descriptor] Nintendo Switch", they don't want confusion between the Nintendo Switch Pro Controller and a new "Nintendo Switch 2 Pro Controller". The current one will continue to be compatible and manufactured as the "full size" gamepad option.

They will also reduce the NEED for it, by making the in-the-box controllers larger, more comfortable and more reliable. If there's new features that mandate the new controllers in some games, so be it, not every Switch game is Nintendo Switch Pro Controller compatible after all.

If asked they'll say something like:

"The included Joy-Con Plus Controllers have been developed with comfort and comprehensive input in mind, and we felt it was not necessary to provide any additional controller options at this time. Nintendo Switch Pro Controller will continue to be produced and supported."

I think accessory manufacturers were essentially told "Don't worry about a new Pro Controller, there isn't one, if you want to make accessories for the existing Pro Controller though it'll still be compatible."
 
Hope it's OK to link to this Taki Udon video that just dropped.

Using a hardware mod and Ubuntu Linux, Taki shows the Switch OLED Edition + the OLED dock is wired for 4K@60Hz (and 1440p@120Hz) output.

 
TamazonX said:
Hope it's OK to link to this Taki Udon video that just dropped.

Using a hardware mod and Ubuntu Linux, Taki shows the Switch OLED Edition + the OLED dock is wired for 4K@60Hz (and 1440p@120Hz) output.

Click to expand...

Ah... The future that never was...
 
Concernt said:
Red hot prediction:

There's no new Pro Controller.

Since the device is branded "Nintendo Switch [Subtitle]" or "[Descriptor] Nintendo Switch", they don't want confusion between the Nintendo Switch Pro Controller and a new "Nintendo Switch 2 Pro Controller". The current one will continue to be compatible and manufactured as the "full size" gamepad option.

They will also reduce the NEED for it, by making the in-the-box controllers larger, more comfortable and more reliable. If there's new features that mandate the new controllers in some games, so be it, not every Switch game is Nintendo Switch Pro Controller compatible after all.

If asked they'll say something like:

"The included Joy-Con Plus Controllers have been developed with comfort and comprehensive input in mind, and we felt it was not necessary to provide any additional controller options at this time. Nintendo Switch Pro Controller will continue to be produced and supported."
Click to expand...
I wouldn't mind this too much.

The Switch Pro controller, IMHO, is a stellar Nintendo product, I have had nothing but good experience with it.

HankyPanky said:
i think we're going to need another 20 pages of node discussion to clear things up.
Click to expand...
Why? Because of a poorly sourced/written Korean blog which seems to be a mixture of previously mentioned (and some of it discredited) rumors?
 
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darthdiablo said:
I wouldn't mind this too much.

The Switch Pro controller, IMHO, is a stellar Nintendo product, I have had nothing but good experience with it.
Click to expand...
That's another thing, I truly don't think we NEED a new one, and the vast majority of games don't use its full repertoire of features and buttons, I doubt many would be limited by it. If a game desperately needs the new feature(s) of the new controller, it'll just tell you. I mean, Nintendo Switch Sports doesn't work with the Pro Controller. Even games that take advantage of whatever new inputs there are wouldn't necessarily need them, like if there's a capacitive surface used for quick-select. Developers could choose to support the Pro Controller by just not mandating them, like how a Switch game has to sacrifice dual gyro and SL/SR now.
 
Concernt said:
Red hot prediction:

There's no new Pro Controller.

Since the device is branded "Nintendo Switch [Subtitle]" or "[Descriptor] Nintendo Switch", they don't want confusion between the Nintendo Switch Pro Controller and a new "Nintendo Switch 2 Pro Controller". The current one will continue to be compatible and manufactured as the "full size" gamepad option.

They will also reduce the NEED for it, by making the in-the-box controllers larger, more comfortable and more reliable. If there's new features that mandate the new controllers in some games, so be it, not every Switch game is Nintendo Switch Pro Controller compatible after all.

If asked they'll say something like:

"The included Joy-Con Plus Controllers have been developed with comfort and comprehensive input in mind, and we felt it was not necessary to provide any additional controller options at this time. Nintendo Switch Pro Controller will continue to be produced and supported."

I think accessory manufacturers were essentially told "Don't worry about a new Pro Controller, there isn't one, if you want to make accessories for the existing Pro Controller though it'll still be compatible."
Click to expand...
I could see them doing small tweaks to the design and updating the internals if needed, but yeah I wouldn't be surprised if the Pro Controller is the same as is. Certainly wouldn't complain about it, it's quite a comfortable controller.
 
lattjeful said:
I could see them doing small tweaks to the design and updating the internals if needed, but yeah I wouldn't be surprised if the Pro Controller is the same as is. Certainly wouldn't complain about it, it's quite a comfortable controller.
Click to expand...
Possibly, but if they were going to a "revision" syle update I would have expected it to be here by now. Alas.

Launching a (cross compatible) revision of it alongside the console makes a lot of sense, though my question there is, what to revise?
 
Steve said:
I’m curious how likely is the 7LPH vs the 4TSMC.

Also I’m curious if these two articles will open a floodgates from other sources and businesses.

At the end if the switch 2 on handheld is 30-50% more powerful than the base ps4, than i would be satisfied.

Also just to say it’s extremely fun speculating with everyone here, y’all are so knowledgeable

Special shout-out to @Thraktor, @oldpuck and @darthdiablo. Y’all are really knowledgeable and your speculations are some of my highlight of the day.
Click to expand...
If anything that 30-50% would be in GPU teraflops beacuse CPU in other hand is much more powerful than AMD Jaguar and have similar IPC like Zen2
 
I sure hope the Switch 2 is compatible with the Pro Controller, I left my good Joy-Con grip at my partner's house so I had to cave and buy one a week or two ago
 
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Woowwww

Took a long 300 page break as me and my wife were going through buying a house and then moving (moved in yesterday) and we are having our second child and it seems the rumour mill got crazy too!

Not buying the Korean rumours given input from necro and Thraktor etc, but it's exciting that things are heating up again.

Even if the rumours are a bit bogus, could it be linked to some genuine goings on in the background?
 
ILikeFeet said:
I don't think Samsung's efficiency problems are gonna play out all that much for Nintendo. they don't max out their chips like Qualcomm does, so they're not gonna have the same issue the 8G1 did
Click to expand...
T239 Drake almost certainly even more likely now is TSMC 4N, size a bit bigger than Switch 1 tells everything because with Samsung 8nm we would have SD size, also is for sure not Samsung 7nm, is some big BS as this whole Korean article
 
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