• Hey everyone, staff have documented a list of banned content and subject matter that we feel are not consistent with site values, and don't make sense to host discussion of on Famiboards. This list (and the relevant reasoning per item) is viewable here.
  • Do you have audio editing experience and want to help out with the Famiboards Discussion Club Podcast? If so, we're looking for help and would love to have you on the team! Just let us know in the Podcast Thread if you are interested!

StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

Reader mode
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
The T239 is pretty outdated if it doesn't support DLSS >=3.0 or LPDDR5x

It would also be a little outdated if it doesn't support UFS 4.0
Click to expand...
DLSS 3 is useless at such low performance. It would be a total waste on Redacted, and would make latency unbearable.
Also it won't need UFS 4 considering assets won't be nearly as big as PS5/XS.
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
The T239 is pretty outdated if it doesn't support DLSS >=3.0 or LPDDR5x

It would also be a little outdated if it doesn't support UFS 4.0
Click to expand...
Slightly dated yeah, but in no way bad. Consoles are static hardware anyway, and have a long life. Even if they are cutting edge at launch, it won't be long before they're dated.

If we get Drake at 5nm, there's not a lot of reason to complain.
 
Paul_Subsonic said:
DLSS 3 is useless at such low performance. It would be a total waste on Redacted, and would make latency unbearable.
Also it won't need UFS 4 considering assets won't be nearly as big as PS5/XS.
Click to expand...

1. I would definitely trade like 200 CUDA cores for 200 more tensor cores to get DLSS 3.0 or 4.0 to run well on Switch 2.
2. You don't need the top end speeds of UFS 4.0, just running at 500 MB/s or 1 GB/s at massively lower electricity costs than UFS 2.1
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
1. I would definitely trade like 200 CUDA cores for 200 more tensor cores to get DLSS 3.0 or 4.0 to run well on Switch 2.
2. You don't need the top end speeds of UFS 4.0, just running at 500 MB/s or 1 GB/s at massively lower electricity costs than UFS 2.1
Click to expand...
200 more tensor cores isn’t going to give you DLSS3
 
ILikeFeet said:
thats not how any of this works. Frame gen doesnt even use tensor cores
Click to expand...

Yeah I'm like 99.999% certain neural network image generation is done via tensor cores.

Yeah you need their upgraded "Optical Flow Accelerator" as well, but it definitely runs on tensor cores.

This is from a third-party using DLSS 3.0, but:

“Using AI to generate entirely new frames is a really great way to leverage their RTX Tensor Cores, and the performance boost is remarkable. DLSS 3 makes a great leap in terms of performance for gaming technologies.”


Rikard Blomberg, chief technology officer at Fatshark
Warhammer 40,000: Darktide
Click to expand...

nvidianews.nvidia.com

NVIDIA Introduces DLSS 3 With Breakthrough AI-Powered Frame Generation for up to 4x Performance

NVIDIA today announced NVIDIA® DLSS 3, an AI-powered performance multiplier that kicks off a new era of NVIDIA RTX™ neural rendering for games and applications.
nvidianews.nvidia.com nvidianews.nvidia.com
 
ILikeFeet said:
thats not how any of this works. Frame gen doesnt even use tensor cores
Click to expand...
It absolutely does use tensor cores; they do all of the actual frame generation work. The OFA doesn’t generate frames. The output of the OFA is a vector field that tells you the estimated displacement of each pixel between two frames. That vector field is used as one of the inputs for the frame generation neural network, which runs on the tensor cores.
 
fwd-bwd said:
Are you referring to the following code?
Code: 
struct cmd_uphy_display_port_init_request {
    /** @brief DisplayPort link rate, T239 valid: 1620, 2700, 5400, 8100, 2160, 2430, 3240, 4320, 6750 */
    uint16_t link_rate;
    /** @brief 1: lane 0; 2: lane 1; 3: lane 0 and 1 */
    uint16_t lanes_bitmap;
} BPMP_ABI_PACKED;
From the link rates alone we can tell that it’s either DisplayPort 1.3 or 1.4. I don’t have access to the leak but like you said Orin supports DP 1.4. The code shows that T239 supports either one lane pair or two lane pairs. Since the Switch firmware contains the “4kdp_preferred_over_usb30” configuration, I’d guess that Nintendo intends to use two lane pairs to get the full bandwidth for video.

When two lane pairs are used, DP 1.4 is capable of 4K@120Hz w/o HDR, or 4K@60Hz w/ HDR. If Display Stream Compression (DSC; a “visually lossless” algorithm) is used, it can support 4K@120Hz w/ HDR, or 8K@60Hz w/ HDR.
Click to expand...

Yeah, this. T239 supports HBR3 over up to 4 lanes and, unless Nvidia have suddenly regressed in their DisplayPort controllers, can safely be assumed to be DP 1.4a. With either DSC or chroma sub-sampling it can hit 4K/240Hz or 8K/60Hz with HDR, and combining DSC and chroma sub-sampling it could actually push 8K/120Hz with HDR if really needed.

I haven't used DSC myself to verify whether it is indistinguishable from uncompressed (I wouldn't be too surprised if it is, given the low compression ratio), but it's probably worth noting that DSC is part of the HDMI 2.1 spec as well, and is required to hit higher resolutions and frame rates. For example, HDMI requires DSC to hit 8K/60Hz, so if Nintendo went a little crazy and attempted to pump out 8K/60fps visuals on The New Machine the DisplayPort connection wouldn't be a bottleneck, it would be capable of an identical signal to HDMI 2.1.

In any case, I don't expect 4K/120Hz support on The New Machine, not out of any technical limitation, but from a business perspective it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for Nintendo. TVs with 4K/120Hz support don't have massive market penetration, and Nintendo would almost certainly want matching functionality in both handheld and docked mode, which would mean a more expensive 120Hz display. Meanwhile even if it's a big leap over the current Switch, we're still talking about mobile hardware, so pushing very high frame rates probably isn't the most effective use of the performance they have. Even the much more powerful PS5 and XBSX will have very few new games running at 120Hz now that the cross-gen period is ending.

oldpuck said:
The leak has Drake with the same DP controller as Orin, so 1.4.

But my understanding is that the total resolution*frame rate*color depth wasn’t just a protocol issue, but a bandwidth issue? The link rates were posted in the linux source, but I don't know enough off hand to see if it matches up to 4k@120
Click to expand...

Interestingly, the DisplayPort interface described in the Linux source code definitely isn't the same as the one on Orin, as it's implemented as part of a UPHY interface, whereas Orin has a dedicated display interface which supports both DP 1.4a and HDMI 2.1. It's possible they have also retained the Orin display interface, perhaps to support HDMI out for devices like a new Shield TV, or that the leak merely refers to the DisplayPort capability being the same, rather than the actual controller itself.
 
Pacobob said:
Can anyone confirm this?
Click to expand...


@YolkFolk
BFRtDbxCIAEJQYj
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
The T239 is pretty outdated if it doesn't support DLSS >=3.0 or LPDDR5x

It would also be a little outdated if it doesn't support UFS 4.0
Click to expand...
absolutely not. DLSS 3.0 is extremely early tech that doesnt scale well whatsoever to smth so relatively low end, lower end =/= out of date.

Pretty much damn near nothing uses UFS 4.0 except super premium higher end stuff at the moment, waste of money when they get all the speed they need at decent enough power consumption on UFS 3.
 
AshiodyneFX said:
absolutely not. DLSS 3.0 is extremely early tech that doesnt scale well whatsoever to smth so relatively low end, lower end =/= out of date.

Pretty much damn near nothing uses UFS 4.0 except super premium higher end stuff at the moment, waste of money when they get all the speed they need at decent enough power consumption on UFS 3.
Click to expand...

While this is true if the Switch 2 launched at this very moment, the Switch 2's realistic release window is from September 1st 2024 to mid March 2025 and these things will be far less cutting edge by that point in time.
 
Nintendo NG doesn't necessarily need the most up to date featuresets to be a powerful, modern and capable machine. Having DLSS 2.x on a mobile device is already an interesting enough feat considering the fact we don't really have that sort of technology in many other devices with the form factor of a Switch. All the other Switch/Steam Deck-like devices use non-Nvidia chipsets (afaik) and the ones that use them are full-blown notebooks.

Frame generation on a console releasing right now might be just too bleeding-edge to properly smooth out at time of manufacturing/release and possibly even difficult considering all the frametime it costs when added on top of everything. On other hand, about storage, if devices like the Steam Deck utilizing microSDs to play games is a thing, i guess the NG doing the same is not an impossibility. Not having UFS 4.0 might just not be a problem, as i'm guessing Nintendo isn't really going to shoot for native 4K, so smaller assets might just make it. I would guess they might go the Series S route and just target 1080p resolutions and assets mostly (maybe 1440p?) and then just use DLSS to upscale it right through 4K. And that might just work flawlessly.
 
Simbinha said:
Nintendo NG doesn't necessarily need the most up to date featuresets to be a powerful, modern and capable machine. Having DLSS 2.x on a mobile device is already an interesting enough feat considering the fact we don't really have that sort of technology in many other devices with the form factor of a Switch. All the other Switch/Steam Deck-like devices use non-Nvidia chipsets (afaik) and the ones that use them are full-blown notebooks.

Frame generation on a console releasing right now might be just too bleeding-edge to properly smooth out at time of manufacturing/release and possibly even difficult considering all the frametime it costs when added on top of everything. On other hand, about storage, if devices like the Steam Deck utilizing microSDs to play games is a thing, i guess the NG doing the same is not an impossibility. Not having UFS 4.0 might just not be a problem, as i'm guessing Nintendo isn't really going to shoot for native 4K, so smaller assets might just make it. I would guess they might go the Series S route and just target 1080p resolutions and assets mostly (maybe 1440p?) and then just use DLSS to upscale it right through 4K. And that might just work flawlessly.
Click to expand...

DLSS doesn't upscale asset quality.
 
Thraktor said:
Yeah, this. T239 supports HBR3 over up to 4 lanes and, unless Nvidia have suddenly regressed in their DisplayPort controllers, can safely be assumed to be DP 1.4a. With either DSC or chroma sub-sampling it can hit 4K/240Hz or 8K/60Hz with HDR, and combining DSC and chroma sub-sampling it could actually push 8K/120Hz with HDR if really needed.

I haven't used DSC myself to verify whether it is indistinguishable from uncompressed (I wouldn't be too surprised if it is, given the low compression ratio), but it's probably worth noting that DSC is part of the HDMI 2.1 spec as well, and is required to hit higher resolutions and frame rates. For example, HDMI requires DSC to hit 8K/60Hz, so if Nintendo went a little crazy and attempted to pump out 8K/60fps visuals on The New Machine the DisplayPort connection wouldn't be a bottleneck, it would be capable of an identical signal to HDMI 2.1.

In any case, I don't expect 4K/120Hz support on The New Machine, not out of any technical limitation, but from a business perspective it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for Nintendo. TVs with 4K/120Hz support don't have massive market penetration, and Nintendo would almost certainly want matching functionality in both handheld and docked mode, which would mean a more expensive 120Hz display. Meanwhile even if it's a big leap over the current Switch, we're still talking about mobile hardware, so pushing very high frame rates probably isn't the most effective use of the performance they have. Even the much more powerful PS5 and XBSX will have very few new games running at 120Hz now that the cross-gen period is ending.



Interestingly, the DisplayPort interface described in the Linux source code definitely isn't the same as the one on Orin, as it's implemented as part of a UPHY interface, whereas Orin has a dedicated display interface which supports both DP 1.4a and HDMI 2.1. It's possible they have also retained the Orin display interface, perhaps to support HDMI out for devices like a new Shield TV, or that the leak merely refers to the DisplayPort capability being the same, rather than the actual controller itself.
Click to expand...

This seems like a bunch of really odd and arbitrary assumptions.

"Nintendo wants matching functionality" the Switch 1 doesn't limit games in docked mode to 720p.
"No one will do 120 FPS in the future because it's a waste of power" there will be plenty of indie games that use almost no power released every year and I'm sure a lot of them would be better at 120 FPS.
 
oldpuck said:
Unless one of us secretly works at Mercury Steam, probably not.
Click to expand...
There are more video game studios in Spain apart from MercurySteam. On the part of AAA studios there are divisions of Saber Interactive, Ubisoft or IOI.

On the part of independent studios, there is TheGameKitchen, Tequila Works or Pendulo. And surely there are more that I don't remember right now.
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
DLSS doesn't upscale asset quality.
Click to expand...
I'm aware. I meant that they might use smaller assets to be able to stream it more easily and ease the strain on the entire storage question and then just use DLSS to enable for higher resolutions. So not having UFS 4.0 and DLSS 3 + FG isn't going to be a problem with respective 'solution'
 
Ojoloco said:
There are more video game studios in Spain apart from MercurySteam. On the part of AAA studios there are divisions of Saber Interactive, Ubisoft or IOI.

On the part of independent studios, there is TheGameKitchen, Tequila Works or Pendulo. And surely there are more that I don't remember right now.
Click to expand...
Oh sure, I was just being cheeky about the sort of stuff this guy has posted in the past.
 
0
AshiodyneFX said:
i dont think thats realistic whatsoever full honesty.
early to late 2024 is what i am feeling with this
Click to expand...

Early 2024 seems pretty unlikely.

If the system was releasing in January, February, or March, it probably would have been announced already.

Only two consoles ever have been released originally in April, May, June, July, or August. The two are the NES (the first modern game console), and the N64 (delayed repeatedly due to Mario 64 not being finished). It's possible to release in those times, but companies clearly try to avoid releasing in those months.

Princess Peach being probably a mid 2024 release and looking so unimpressive visually (it looks fine, but not special) really seems like a strong suggestion that the Switch 2 won't be out by mid 2024 as well. If there was a Switch 2 version coming, they could easily boost a bunch of stuff to make it look very impressive but not obviously a Switch 2 game.

So I'm thinking September 2024 to March 2025 (inclusive) as the release window.
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Early 2024 seems pretty unlikely.

If the system was releasing in January, February, or March, it probably would have been announced already.

Only two consoles ever have been released originally in April, May, June, July, or August. The two are the NES (the first modern game console), and the N64 (delayed repeatedly due to Mario 64 not being finished). It's possible to release in those times, but companies clearly try to avoid releasing in those months.

Princess Peach being probably a mid 2024 release and looking so unimpressive visually (it looks fine, but not special) really seems like a strong suggestion that the Switch 2 won't be out by mid 2024 as well. If there was a Switch 2 version coming, they could easily boost a bunch of stuff to make it look very impressive but not obviously a Switch 2 game.

So I'm thinking September 2024 to March 2025 (inclusive) as the release window.
Click to expand...
ehhhhh switch was announced in october, they got time, the princess peach game is very clearly gonna be cross gen so it doesnt really matter, they will have other games to use for marketting it doesnt HAVE to be the peach game, the 3DS got a new model after the switch launched and a couple games that were cross gen with 3DS, nintendo is not adverse to weird decisons like those
 
JoshuaJSlone said:
FWIW to add to the "If I buy something now, they'll definitely announce tomorrow" pile, I recently gave up on putting up with my launch Joy-Cons' drift until the next system and got some replacements.
Click to expand...
I’m buying a Zelda OLED today lmaoo

Where’s Necro when you beed him

And Spain leaking the Switch 2 was not in my bingo card lmaoo

Wonder when Eurogamer will publish an article
 
Hermii said:
If Drake has been done for over a year, why wouldn't the devkits be final?
Click to expand...
unless final kits are just heading out early, I guess. I don't think Drake is coming this year is why


just found out Disney Speedstorm is made by Gameloft Barcelona. there's your leak source! /s

 
Ojoloco said:
There are more video game studios in Spain apart from MercurySteam. On the part of AAA studios there are divisions of Saber Interactive, Ubisoft or IOI.

On the part of independent studios, there is TheGameKitchen, Tequila Works or Pendulo. And surely there are more that I don't remember right now.
Click to expand...
Would it be expected for Mercury Steam to get a dev kit ahead of other 3rd party studios?
 
TSR3 said:
Would it be expected for Mercury Steam to get a dev kit ahead of other 3rd party studios?
Click to expand...

How do we know it's ahead other 3rd party studios?

There has been leaks of devkits since years

"Bloomberg reported that developers at at least 11 game companies have been working on games using a 4K Nintendo Switch kit, at both big studios and small. Nintendo told Bloomberg its information is “inaccurate,” but did not expand further."

:)



www.polygon.com

Nintendo Switch developers say they already have 4K dev kits

4K Switch model could arrive in 2022, Bloomberg reports
www.polygon.com www.polygon.com

www.xfire.com

Nvidia employee confirms existence of long-rumored Nintendo Switch Pro chip

The still-unconfirmed Nintendo Switch Pro is believed to be using the Nvidia Tegra239 chip.
www.xfire.com www.xfire.com
 
Reader mode
You must log in or register to reply here.
Please read this staff post before posting.

Furthermore, according to this follow-up post, all off-topic chat will be moderated.
Last edited:


Back
Top Bottom