OP
OP
I think so?
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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)
- Thread starter Dakhil
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Ehh, it's kind of arbitrary. Regardless of input render or DLSS output resolutions they can use textures of any resolution, and there's nothing special about matching up DLSSing from 1/9 output resolution with 1/9 size textures.
I'm curious, any figures on how much texture resolution is often cut down for Switch/PS4 multiplatform games?
ziggyrivers
thunder
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So wait, do we now believe the successor will come in 2024/25 because of that article?
NateDrake
Chain Chomp
NERD? That can be limited to NSO & them porting their emulation solution to work on cross-gen devices. Unless people think NSO is going to start at zero again in terms of content offerings.
Dekuman
Kremling
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Yeah NSO came to mind
D36
#WOHOYHASAWAKENED
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Wait, what article?
Semi Lazy Gamer
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Because then we can begin speculation about what's next, including new variations and the next next gen!
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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While not surprising for NERD to be advertising jobs. I mean, if hiring postings can openly talk about next gen development, I feel like maybe management isn't too worried about people being aware that the next generation is coming. Which only makes sense to me if we're in that period in the reveal cycle where they're open about the device coming, but haven't revealed it yet. Like Nintendo Switch was in early 2016.
Point is. If they're so blasé about mentioning the next generation Nintendo platform, sort of seems like they're near enough ready to reveal it.
Point is. If they're so blasé about mentioning the next generation Nintendo platform, sort of seems like they're near enough ready to reveal it.
Charamiwa
Bob-omb
An underrated feature of the inevitable increase in resolution coming with the next system is in game screenshots looking much better. I've been watching a bunch of Zelda speculation videos and I'm so over the zoomed in 900p images looking like a complete blur. I want nice shareable crisp screenshots!
Stefan51278
Piranha Plant
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Nintendo DS was also the famous third pillar. BigN was not sure about the success and even launched the Gameboy Micro parallel to what would become their most sold device ever
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Armoured_Bear
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I want a remake of this more than another standard Starfox game.
MP!
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I’d say between 512, 1k, and 2K depending on the asset and it’s implementation.
A subset of assets could probably have even more aggressive optimization if the objects are tiny
People seem very quick to dismiss this as « just being NSO » and fail to see the bigger picture which is basically confirming they’re moving on to their next hardware, lending more credence to literally everything else we know, including the fact that they might have shifted internal resources to next gen which explains the barren Switch calendar. To me, this is effectively the first real clue as to what’s really going on and how close we are to find out. Even if it’s just NSO.
^ everything of this. This might be the real first hint "from Nintendo" about next hardware.
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The first blurb mentioned in the video (the “other Nintendo platforms” bit) is a huge reach since NERD have contributed to other Nintendo platforms that weren’t listed (Wii U, the mini systems). It’s a mute point though because the latter two cited segments of the listing are much clearer in meaning, but that was the first thing that stuck out to me.
NERD work on more than just emulation though; in fact they have a different job listing for Emulation Engineer from the Game Tech Engineer described in the video. These listings have been up for awhile; since late last year; I took notice of them myself around December; so I guess it’s my bad for not bringing attention to it myself anytime sooner, sorry! Regardless; as you can find on their site, NERD have contributed to plenty of non-emulation projects like Labo VR, Ring Fit, Brain Age, Mario Kart Live and Nintendo Switch Sports; all sorts of different features that these games utilize. Pulse reading in Ring Fit, location tracking in Mario Kart Live; everything Doctre reads out in that first blurb is something they have already done (including the deep learning; that was for Brain Age; I know machine learning is technically different but i’d assume a misnomer there).
I figured backwards compatibility / some cross-gen would be a no brainer by this point; but if you’re still on the fence I would not ignore that listing.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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While you raise poignant points, I would say that their explicit inclusion of "other Nintendo platforms" when none are officially supported as of right now, and their inclusion of "cross-platform" and "next generation" in general are worth considering, pondering, even. It's a very clear image being painted of a Nintendo, or at least, a NERD, who is talking openly about the existence and development for their next platform. A stark change in tone compared to upper management mere weeks ago, in a company noted for its extremely tight grasp on information and messaging even within the company.
Its happening
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I feel like you’ve misread my post (or only read the first sentence) if you think I disagree with your conclusion, lol. The point of the first paragraph is just that the “other Nintendo platforms” aren’t the smoking gun; the very explicit references to “cross-platform” and “next generation” are.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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I don't think I said I disagree with your conclusion. Please don't make assumptions about what I have, or haven't, read in future. I try my best to extend at least the respect of reading an entire post before I reply.
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I read the phrasing of “While you raise poignant points, I would say-“ as implying a contradiction instead of elaboration, but if that wasn’t the intent that’s on me for misreading it. Sorry about that!
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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No worries! I probably could have been a little clearer myself. (But right now I'm REALLY tired.)
Giancarlo
Nintendo connoiseur
as i especulated Metroid Prime 4 might be one of this cross-gen games, Nintendo is planning to do with Switch and it sucessor, they might do cross-gen games with Switch for 2/3 years like Sony did with PS4 with PS5, before fully focusing on Switch sucessor exclusives, making this transition with they next gen hardware more smooth then previous hardwares they have in the past.
TSR3
Pilotwings
Specifically I'm looking forward to finding out exactly what the new SoC, and DLSS in a handheld format, are capable of. Otherwise I'm just looking forward to a better Switch than the Switch
ziggyrivers
thunder
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You mentioning this made me think how more evolve will the Switch’s social aspect be with this revision. A fellow user suggested more mobile integration. I wonder how much more can Nintendo push this.
Also, speaking about mobile: where’s my mobile Zelda game?
Summer is coming.
insert the Office fire meme here
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I mean... hopefully. But Switch doesn't take 1080p shots/video now, so I'm not getting my hopes up for 4K shots of 4K games.
They'll use the tensor cores to upscale the screenshots!
Damn, 8,6 TFLOPS APU is insane for handhelds.
Really hoping Nintendo will push its chip to the maximum
that's twice what Drake is expected to run at and on-par with the Wii U
they exist, but you'll get just over an hour with them
:format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/24608400/z1_extreme_z1_ryzen_1080p.jpg)
these numbers were with the 30W mode. so reducing the resolution to 720p and capping the frame rate will help with battery life a lot
ziggyrivers
thunder
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So hypothetically, if Nintendo were to go with this chip, we’d get an OLED successor that caps at 720p/30fps undocked to maintain battery?they exist, but you'll get just over an hour with them
these numbers were with the 30W mode. so reducing the resolution to 720p and capping the frame rate will help with battery life a lot
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Like a cow's opinion. It doesn't matter.moot. it’s ‘moot point’.
pelusilla6
Moblin
The little sister (from other parents)
Edit: I know it shouldn't be compared because power consumption but it is still interesting to see, I'm surprised the Deck doesn't appear tho.
Edit: I know it shouldn't be compared because power consumption but it is still interesting to see, I'm surprised the Deck doesn't appear tho.
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Ghostsonplanets
Ghost in the Sales
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Damn, 8,6 TFLOPS APU is insane for handhelds.
Really hoping Nintendo will push its chip to the maximum
The graphs are made at the Turbo Mode with 30W consumption. What this shows to me is that the 12CU chip is really power and (probably) bandwidth constrained. The 4 CU model is 1/3 the silicon for 1/2 the performance.
Anyway, considering the 6800U was barely faster than the SD at 15W, unless AMD customized the power curve of these chips, the higher model doesn't seem as enticing. Unless you plan to "dock" the ROG Ally and let it guzzle power. The 4CU Chip seems a better fit for a handheld device imho. Also lol at AMD comparing their chips with Switch.
Smash Kirby
Bob-omb
I think Nintendo would avoid AMD after how they and IBM screwed them over a little with the WiiU. NVidia is providing Nintendo dev tools and dev support.
that depends on the game. and you have to remember that these are pc games. Drake would have the same configuration as the Z1 Extreme, but takes a lot less power to hit the same numbers. hell, if Nintendo went with the Z1E, games would still take a lot less power to hit the same targets simply because the games are optimized for it
OP
OP
Damn, 8,6 TFLOPS APU is insane for handhelds.
Really hoping Nintendo will push its chip to the maximum
I don't think Nintendo's going to have Drake run at up to 30 W at the very least in handheld mode. I think Nintendo still cares about battery life.
I think Drake's going to be identical to the Tegra X1 in the sense that the max TDP is probably going to be 15 W.
kasparov77
Moblin
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What exactly do you mean by that? because as far as I'm aware, Nintendo themselves screwed up with the WiiU software-wise. There's a book or an article, can't remember, from someone working at Nintendo (may be Reggie's book, I'm not sure) where they admitted that prior to the Switch, they were using old development tools and had to adapt to new engines like unity/unreal and work with new APIs and SDKs.
Of course WiiU hardware was at fault as well, but the reason why it was made that way was how Nintendo's software at the time was built around the PowerPC arch and ATI graphics.
They gave Nintendo exactly what they wanted.
A low power mcm with BC.
Nintendo could have gotten an x86 apu and had more bang for buck power wise, but that didn't align with their design goals.
30W docked Drake would be absurd, but would also make handheld mode fall far behind unless it was 15W. then your constantly run the risk of low battery life unless you put a large battery in it. and Nintendo cares a lot about weight so a 40 Wh battery might be too alrge
I'm getting Game Gear vibes from this.
Teal'c
Shriekbat
I still believe that this period is unlikely, or that getting there is the consequence of some serious problem with the development of the next Nintendo console.
Third party support of big (and graphically intensive) titles has been less in the last while, Ubisoft comes to mind whose only major title has been Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle, I know there's also Just Dance but that counts for little... of course I'm referring to Assassin's Creed.
All this is to say that 2 years of waiting (for third parties) to bring new titles is a long time. There might be a few impossible ports here and there, but those are still titles whose development has been going on for at least a year.
How many first-party titles would Nintendo have to produce to cover 2 years, so that the lack of these third-party titles would not be a burden? Even with remasters it's a long shot... at least the way I see it.
Stefan51278
Piranha Plant
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If I was the producer of the SwitchTwo-Hardware I would increase the ratio of the difference in clock frequencies for handheld and docked modes. Go for 720p in handheld-mode and get away with a smaller battery, lower memory-clock and have more space in the tablet for cooling the chip in docked mode. 20-25W TDP and higher resolutions in docked mode should be possible with these changes. This would also make a SwitchTwo Lite easier without a die shrink and when you do the shrink in 2026 you can make the heatsink small again to save money.
The battery was really big in the original Switch and the cooler very small. Adding a second heatpipe and doubling the heatsink could increase the possible TDP.
the battery was large but the density was low. increasing to 20W on the chip would mean the battery is gonna have to essentially double. not impossible, but would the added weight be worth it?If I was the producer of the SwitchTwo-Hardware I would increase the ratio of the difference in clock frequencies for handheld and docked modes. Go for 720p in handheld-mode and get away with a smaller battery, lower memory-clock and have more space in the tablet for cooling the chip in docked mode. 20-25W TDP should be possible with these changes. This would also make a SwitchTwo Lite easier without a die shrink and when you do the shrink in 2026 you can make the heatsink small again to save money.
The battery was really big in the original Switch and the cooler very small. Adding a second heatpipe and doubling the heatsink could increase the possible TDP.
Stefan51278
Piranha Plant
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The battery doesn't have to double if you go for low clocks and low power in handheld-mode. Switch doesn't need the battery in docked mode.
OP
OP
Depends on if Nintendo and Nvidia use TSMC's 4N process node to fabricate Drake. kopite7kimi mentioned Nvidia won't use TSMC's 3 nm** process node to fabricate Blackwell GPUs. And the GPU architecture succeeding Blackwell probably won't be launching until 2H 2026.
** → a marketing nomenclature used by all foundry companies
Thraktor
"[✄]. [✄]. [✄]. [✄]." -Microsoft
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Damn, 8,6 TFLOPS APU is insane for handhelds.
Really hoping Nintendo will push its chip to the maximum
It's worth noting that these are just new brand names for the Phoenix silicon used in the Ryzen 7040 series of laptop APUs. At least the Z1 Extreme is, I'm not 100% sure about the Z1, but I'm guessing it's just a binned variant of it.
Also, the 8.6 Tflops is based on RDNA3's ability to dual-issue instructions under limited circumstances, which allows AMD to claim double the theoretical peak Tflops. Without dual-issue it would be 4.3 Tflops. All Tflops figures are theoretical, but the effectiveness of this dual-issue functionality is limited at best, and honestly it's quite misleading in terms of performance. If you compare the specs of the RX 7900XT (RDNA3) to the RX 6900XT (RDNA2), the RX 7900 XT has about 15% more theoretical performance if you ignore dual-issue, and about 130% more theoretical performance if you include dual-issue in the Tflops calculation. Actual performance of the RX 7900XT is only about 20% better than the RX 6900XT.
Effectively, if you want to compare this to RDNA2 GPUs like those used in Steam Deck, the 4.3 Tflops number is more realistic. Not that it's going to hit that without tanking the battery life, in any case. It would require peak clocks of 2.8GHz, and even at 30W TDP I'd be surprised if it'll be able to maintain anywhere near that clock. It's also likely to be heavily bandwidth-constrained, in any case.
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