Yeah, a 1080p screen with Drake is the equivalent of a 540p screen on Tegra X1. Exactly a quarter of the maximum TV output resolution. It makes sense. More sense than 720p, anyway.I'd be pretty surprised if it's still a 720p screen tbh. That's a line of thinking that made sense for a pro console, but not a successor. Feels like reliving the NX/early Switch discussions when the idea of a 540p screen was a pretty consistent talking point.
Arguably 540p would have been a better choice for a lot of games. There are so many games on Switch that doesn't hit native res.I'd be pretty surprised if it's still a 720p screen tbh. That's a line of thinking that made sense for a pro console, but not a successor. Feels like reliving the NX/early Switch discussions when the idea of a 540p screen was a pretty consistent talking point.
I think this is missing the forest for the trees. The HEADLINING games, Mario Odyssey, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, Zelda Breath of the Wild and Tears, all hit 720p in handheld mode.Arguably 540p would have been a better choice for a lot of games. There are so many games on Switch that doesn't hit native res.
Everybody 1-2 SwitchAnything new in here?
Although I agree with you, considering Nintendo’s history and other technical arguments brought up by oldpuck and Thraktor, I think it makes sense and Concernt definitely has a point there.They inchreased the screen resolution every gen so far, because they been miles away from dimishing returns territory. They arguably still may have one more gen left before the perceived returns are too negligible, but it doesn't make sense to keep increasing resolution forever.
With a battery puck without USB-C, they won't even be able to SELL it, nevermind change anything.Apple about to change the VR/AR game.
This has been said before and this most often ends up wrong lolWith a battery puck without USB-C, they won't even be able to SELL it, nevermind change anything.
Postage stamp sized? No, you can't.Yeah, on my screen these samples are literally postage stamp sized and I can CLEARLY see a difference.
Is that really a concern when it's running the same games that will (mostly) already be doing more than 1080p docked? At least on Switch isn't it the case that memory bandwidth doesn't drop much in portable mode, which has made it more a bottleneck in docked mode?My reasoning for why not to go to 1080p funnily enough has more to do with the memory bandwidth Situation….
Higher resolutions tend to demand more memory bandwidth
Yes, I can? The changes are not JUST resolution... The 1080p image looks better and sharper beyond just that. Nevermind the fact this screen I'm using is both tiny and high resolution.Postage stamp sized? No, you can't.
...well, uh, yeah, because before the law wasn't accepted and in effect, but it is now and rolls out over the next few years? What does Apple intend to do? Pay the fines?This has been said before and this most often ends up wrong lol
Well, you don't want it to match the increase in pixel count. You want it to vastly exceed it. Otherwise 100% of your performance is spent on just uprezzing, no change in rendering techniques or level of detail.The jump in power is so, so much bigger than the difference in pixel count from 720p to 1080p
It is. Everything is. But they're referring to compromises in games. Either the pixel/perf ratio beats the PS4, or PS4-era ports will be compromised. That's it, its just math., and that's ON TOP of hugely improved capabilities around upscaling. It doesn't take up much energy either. It's NOT a compromise.
I don't think you're necessarily wrong about predicting Nintendo's intent, or what the outcome will be, but that's different with discussing what, technologically, that means, which is in turn different from stating our preferences.Nintendo increases the screen resolution every single generation. The device will be designed with its own games in mind first and foremost, with last gen compatibility probably further down the list compared to the improved market appeal of better resolution.
It seems very much aimed at developers and enterprise contexts. The price will come down to consumer levels over time if the category is successful.The Vision Pro is 3500? Geezzzz
With a battery dongle dangling down your back? And no USB-C? What engineering...It seems very much aimed at developers and enterprise contexts. The price will come down to consumer levels over time if the category is successful.
It certainly gives me gadget lust. What an insane bit of engineering.
For weight distribution, yes. Very preferable to having that mass in the headset.With a battery dongle dangling down your back? And no USB-C? What engineering...
It seems to incorporate some really smart hardware design and UI choices. Also like having all Apple apps somewhat ready is insane. Certainly a product like this will be too expensive for me for the next 3 years but I really want to try it out how well it works. Fomo will be real for this one and sell better than we might think for that price point (if it is in RL at least almost as good as shown in the presentation of course)It seems very much aimed at developers and enterprise contexts. The price will come down to consumer levels over time if the category is successful.
It certainly gives me gadget lust. What an insane bit of engineering.
Yeah, my first though was the Quest Pro (I think that's the model) that was 1.5k, who's target was business people.It seems very much aimed at developers and enterprise contexts. The price will come down to consumer levels over time if the category is successful.
It certainly gives me gadget lust. What an insane bit of engineering.
Alright, that might be a matter of taste. I prefer the battery to live on the back to balance out the weight of the HMD.For weight distribution, yes. Very preferable to having that mass in the headset.
And this absolutely blows the Quest Pro out of the water. The seamless integration with other Apple devices alone is a coup.Yeah, my first though was the Quest Pro (I think that's the model) that was 1.5k, who's target was business people.
Given the chipset power on tap here I'm guessing it's a pretty large/heavy battery to be mounted in the headset.Alright, that might be a matter of taste. I prefer the battery to live on the back to balance out the weight of the HMD.
In the US, maybe. I don't even KNOW anyone with an iPhone.And this absolutely blows the Quest Pro out of the water. The seamless integration with other Apple devices alone is a coup.
Apple controls almost 60% of the smartphone market here, so.In the US, maybe. I don't even KNOW anyone with an iPhone.
Oh yeah, here in the US it's wayyyyyyy different. iPhones everywhere. They've managed to position themselves almost as a luxury brand over here. People have bought into it and so they get an iPhone.In the US, maybe. I don't even KNOW anyone with an iPhone.
I have a 13 mini! It's great.Oh yeah, here in the US it's wayyyyyyy different. iPhones everywhere. They've managed to position themselves almost as a luxury brand over here. People have bought into it and so they get an iPhone.
...Although I'm not immune to that. The 12 Mini was the best (and only) option for a small phone when I was upgrading...
Small phone superiority wooooooo. Super bummed the Mini line is done.I have a 13 mini! It's great.
What does that have to do with this? AR/VR is a different segment altogether...well, uh, yeah, because before the law wasn't accepted and in effect, but it is now and rolls out over the next few years? What does Apple intend to do? Pay the fines?
Not according to the EU, who are the ones who made the decision. And they're right. They're different interfaces, but they're rechargable consumer electronics. Why WOULDN'T they be covered when every other piece of consumer electronics is?What does that have to do with this? AR/VR is a different segment altogether
Also, uh, where are you getting that it won’t have USB-C? Apple has implemented that standard across their entire hardware lineup aside from the iPhone, which has a huge bought-in accessories market they had to consider alienating.Not according to the EU, who are the ones who made the decision. And they're right. They're different interfaces, but they're rechargable consumer electronics. Why WOULDN'T they be covered when every other piece of consumer electronics is?
If docked mode is targeting DLSS 4k Performance Mode as a base, then that means rendering a 1080p image, and applying a 4x upscale. GPU rendering scales pretty linearly, so with half that level of performance, that means rendering a base 720p image. The question is, "how much DLSS can we get in handheld?"
I was following a live tweet thread that said "Proprietary cable". I'd love for them (and me) to be proven wrong on this! See the directive isn't stupid, it KNOWS manufacturers could make a USB C port that requires a cable from that manufacturer and call it a day, but it specifically disallows this. Maybe they're getting around it by having the headset well, not charge at all, have the puck to headset be proprietary, then have the puck charge by USB-C, but that just sounds... Bad. That sort of "you can only buy your replacement cables from Apple" stuff is exactly what it was meant to prevent. I guess we'll see.Also, uh, where are you getting that it won’t have USB-C? Apple has implemented that standard across their entire hardware lineup aside from the iPhone, which has a huge bought-in accessories market they had to consider alienating.
This product was already deep in development by the time that passed. They’ll be fine. This is some weird dooming over this when they’ll just be required to change it for the follow up device.Not according to the EU, who are the ones who made the decision. And they're right. They're different interfaces, but they're rechargable consumer electronics. Why WOULDN'T they be covered when every other piece of consumer electronics is?
@Look over there is the braingenius when it comes to the bandwidth situation, but it's a little iffy on the battery life side. I suspect Nintendo will want to bump down the memory clock in handheld mode, in which case 1080p might be a bit of a stretch, but if they can eke out decent battery life without doing that, obviously there wouldn't be a bandwidth problem in handheld mode that doesn't exist in desktop mode.but idk I feel like we'd be too bandwidth limited for 1080p handheld, at least not without severe compromises in either battery life or image quality.
Lower resolution is a compromise, too.It is. Everything is. But they're referring to compromises in games. Either the pixel/perf ratio beats the PS4, or PS4-era ports will be compromised. That's it, its just math.
Resurrecting this thread from last year - but @Look over there and I had a conversation about what consoles could offer as gen-on-gen leaps slow, and what settop boxes could offer over hybrids, and one of our thoughts was that a theoretical playstation 6 could become, well, a Wii U with a dedicated handheld even just to stream your Playstation games.Ooh, yea, it didn't occur to me that the set top box could evolve to go back downward in power draw. I would like that to come back as an option on the market. For that matter, I didn't think of the utilization of a set top box as a mass market plug n play server.
Not much else to add, but I dig the food for thought.
The battery connects to the headset via a Magsafe charger. I’d bet dollars to pesos the battery itself charges via USB-C, and it’s already confirmed you can run the headset with the battery plugged into a wall outlet.I was following a live tweet thread that said "Proprietary cable". I'd love for them (and me) to be proven wrong on this! See the directive isn't stupid, it KNOWS manufacturers could make a USB C port that requires a cable from that manufacturer and call it a day, but it specifically disallows this. Maybe they're getting around it by having the headset well, not charge at all, have the puck to headset be proprietary, then have the puck charge by USB-C, but that just sounds... Bad. That sort of "you can only buy your replacement cables from Apple" stuff is exactly what it was meant to prevent. I guess we'll see.
Keep in mind that, as @Thraktor mentioned before, when it comes to gaming the clock speed we see online isn’t exactly representative and games actually can have the GPUs clock higher so the relative Memory Bandwidth to the GPU is not the same as we had known based on the numbers we can get online.@Look over there is the braingenius when it comes to the bandwidth situation, but it's a little iffy on the battery life side. I suspect Nintendo will want to bump down the memory clock in handheld mode, in which case 1080p might be a bit of a stretch, but if they can eke out decent battery life without doing that, obviously there wouldn't be a bandwidth problem in handheld mode that doesn't exist in desktop mode.
Drake's expected bandwidth is quite a bit below the PS4's, but that's not as much of an issue as it seems. Modern GPU architectures are vastly more memory efficient. I'm a weeeee bit concerned about the cache situation on Drake, but overall, I think docked mode is in solid shape on the memory architecture. It just remains to be seen exactly how handheld shakes out.
maybe be 540p or lower. half frame rate for more assurance. texture quality will have to be cut too. Drake might have the quantity but there's still a bandwidth limitationA very theoretical question: What settings would Drake have to to match or even surpass the XBOX series S in Docked mode? Would something like this already be possible?
Well, for one it would need to not be a portable device and 2, would need to have sufficient cooling. 3, let’s assume the chip is equipped for a set top box and has a 256-bit interface.A very theoretical question: What settings would Drake have to to match or even surpass the XBOX series S in Docked mode? Would something like this already be possible?
I feel it in my bones. Soon.
monkey's paw curls Jason Schreier writes an entire report on the weird rumors surrounding the "Switch Pro", being capped off with the bombshell (for us, anyway) that T239 was scrapped and that Nintendo has plans to ride the wave of the Switch for the next 5 years, at least.I feel it in my bones. Soon.
I just watched the video. I liked what I saw. If I had throwaway money I'd definitely get one if it really does everything I saw. Soon TVs will go extinct if these things become super accessible.The Vision Pro is 3500? Geezzzz
Odyssey is very much 720p with an asterisk. That interlacing of 2 640x720 frames is smart but not fantastic in motion.I think this is missing the forest for the trees. The HEADLINING games, Mario Odyssey, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, Zelda Breath of the Wild and Tears, all hit 720p in handheld mode.
Do you mean that hardware? Or the software?A very theoretical question: What settings would Drake have to to match or even surpass the XBOX series S in Docked mode? Would something like this already be possible?
As long as consoles remain, this will never happen.I just watched the video. I liked what I saw. If I had throwaway money I'd definitely get one if it really does everything I saw. Soon TVs will go extinct if these things become super accessible.