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So where are we at now? 8 nm bad again?
So where are we at now? 8 nm bad again?
Here are the corrected power estimations for Orin'rake CPU and GPU on 8 nm.
Does the tool give you control of how many GPCs are active?
This is what the tool looks like, (don't mind the settings, this was taken before I created the chart) can't see it all on a 1080p screen, so this is my phone's screenshot, basically you can turn off the GPU to get a baseline power reading, then turn on the GPU with 2, 3, 4, 7, or 8 TPCs (2SM each) since you can't just do 6TPCs for Drake, I put in all the numbers and carefully added the correct power draw estimates by linear math, the 7TPC and 8TPC are proof that the 5TPC and 6TPC line up correctly. The CPU you can't turn off, so I went with 2 cores and then to 10 cores, so per core power draw is shown there, also it's not worth paying too much attention to wattage that isn't in (x)'s because that includes Orin's board and 2 extra A78AE cores, memory which has 4 channels instead of 2 like drake will have...
So after this exercise what are your conclusions? 8nm is feasible but we’re looking at something around 2.3 TF docked and 1 TF portable?This is what the tool looks like, (don't mind the settings, this was taken before I created the chart) can't see it all on a 1080p screen, so this is my phone's screenshot, basically you can turn off the GPU to get a baseline power reading, then turn on the GPU with 2, 3, 4, 7, or 8 TPCs (2SM each) since you can't just do 6TPCs for Drake, I put in all the numbers and carefully added the correct power draw estimates by linear math, the 7TPC and 8TPC are proof that the 5TPC and 6TPC line up correctly. The CPU you can't turn off, so I went with 2 cores and then to 10 cores, so per core power draw is shown there, also it's not worth paying too much attention to wattage that isn't in (x)'s because that includes Orin's board and 2 extra A78AE cores, memory which has 4 channels instead of 2 like drake will have...
In simple terms, the 'nm' is the size of a transistor. Due to marketing, how to measure this has have become a bit complicated over the years but lets keep it simple an say just that. Now, the miniaturization of the transistors has been one of the main drivers of the technological explosion over the last decades; the so called Moore's law is based on this miniaturization. A chip with more transistors that can run at higher clocks and consume less power equals a more powerful chip for the same power consumption.Just for my clarification re: the whole #nm discussion: whether it's 8nm, 7nm or 5nm, it's mostly going to affect the battery life, right? All the other components are established to determine how much power this device will have, it's just the nm's will determine the clock speed and power use (or something like that)
Does this tool support the Tegra X1? just for some comparisons...This is what the tool looks like
CPU 1.5GHzSo after this exercise what are your conclusions? 8nm is feasible but we’re looking at something around 2.3 TF docked and 1 TF portable?
What do think the odds are they stuck with 8nm or went with a smaller (TSMC?) node?
I posted a picture of the tool, it doesn't have those options, and no I don't have access to TX1 via that tool, maybe if I had a TX1 jetson board?Does this tool support the Tegra X1? just for some comparisons...
edit: also, what about undervolting?
We aren't doing this until 2027 or 2028, it's in your contract.I'm going to vote that, from now on, we only speculate about the hardware to come after Drake. I'll start
Two words: Flesh controller
I'm going to vote that, from now on, we only speculate about the hardware to come after Drake. I'll start
Two words: Flesh controller
I'm going to vote that, from now on, we only speculate about the hardware to come after Drake. I'll start
Two words: Flesh controller
that is Switch 3, so hopefully 2030... I've had too much time speculating on hardware, besides Drake to Switch 3 will be much less needed, just like PS4 to PS5.Because of this, Nintendo should delay the machine by several years as punishment.
I'm going to vote that, from now on, we only speculate about the hardware to come after Drake. I'll start
Two words: Flesh controller
I'm thinking more of a slither8nvm 5nvm 4nvm 8nm
Now think of it rumbling in your hands...and also what the rumble pak would be.
I'm going to vote that, from now on, we only speculate about the hardware to come after Drake. I'll start
Two words: Flesh controller
I'm going to vote that, from now on, we only speculate about the hardware to come after Drake. I'll start
Two words: Flesh controller
half the Future Hardware thread vanishesWelcome to my special "good LAWD" ignore list.
I'm going to vote that, from now on, we only speculate about the hardware to come after Drake. I'll start
Two words: Flesh controller
I'm going to vote that, from now on, we only speculate about the hardware to come after Drake. I'll start
Two words: Flesh controller
shows that 8nm is already at the limits of scalingSo, as it turns out, the Jetson PowerEstimator can be conned into using 6 TPCs instead of 7. The API endpoint will accept any configuration, it's just that the front end only lets you submit actual valid Orin configs, and front end is very readable JS.
Dropping from 7TPC's @420MHz to 6TPC@420MHz with all other settings the same (8CPU cores @ 1.5GHz, DLA + PLA off, EMC Freq @3199, EMC load at low, CPU and GPU load at high) I save a grand total of .8 watt, exactly
I'm going to vote that, from now on, we only speculate about the hardware to come after Drake. I'll start
Two words: Flesh controller
Wait I've figured it out, "the endless now" was about Switch Pro rumors... Now I am having Noah like flash backs to all my hopes being dashed over and over.
In other words, the tool is kinda worthless?In fact, you can pretty easily get the tool to spit out the numbers it uses internally for its estimates. It's a curve, but barely, there is so little variation it's close to a single constant.
I can make it estimate TPC draw for a GPU clock of 460MHz (load high), and just alter the number of TPCs from 2 to 7, one at a time, and you get a consistent 0.85W draw per TPC, which the UI rounds for you, creating the illusion of a power curve
You must yield. Did they not tell you?Wait I've figured it out, "the endless now" was about Switch Pro rumors... Now I am having Noah like flash backs to all my hopes being dashed over and over.
No individual SM is linear, the clocks are what create the curve, not how many individual cores you are turning on, it's the same with CPU cores.In other words, the tool is kinda worthless?
You can only pick 15 Switch games to get a free complete Remaster level upgrade for drake, which ones you picking? Games releasing in 2023 and beyond are not eligible.
For Me:
Astral Chain
Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3
Xenoblade Chronicles 3
Xenoblade Chronicles 2/Torna
Kirby and the Forgotten Lands
Mario Odyssey
Metroid DREAD
Warframe
Bayonetta 3
Crysis 3
Luigi Mansion 3
Monster Hunter Rise/Sunbreak
Witcher 3
Nier Automata
Mario and Rabbids Sparks of Hope
I will probably edit my list once I see what you guys have down lol
In other words, the tool is kinda worthless?
Yeah, just confirming what @Z0m3le says here. If you know what 1 TPC @460MHz will draw, you know pretty close to what 2 will draw. But knowing what a TPC draws at @460MHz will tell you a lot less about how much the same TPC will run @920MHz.No individual SM is linear, the clocks are what create the curve, not how many individual cores you are turning on, it's the same with CPU cores.
You can only pick 15 Switch games to get a free complete Remaster level upgrade for drake, which ones you picking? Games releasing in 2023 and beyond are not eligible.
If I understand correctly what that's trying to show, the two shadows come from two different types of extrapolation. One is from pure motion extrapolation of the image (the shadow which ends up too far back) and one is a newly generated shadow based on extrapolated geometry. The larger "DLSS3" system aims to be smart enough to know what to do when these two different types of extrapolation disagree.If it was an extrapolative model, wouldn't both of the shadows be warped to be behind the motorcycle? To me, this is an indictor that it might be interpolation.
You can only pick 15 Switch games to get a free complete Remaster level upgrade for drake, which ones you picking? Games releasing in 2023 and beyond are not eligible.
For Me:
Astral Chain
Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3
Xenoblade Chronicles 3
Xenoblade Chronicles 2/Torna
Kirby and the Forgotten Lands
Mario Odyssey
Metroid DREAD
Warframe
Bayonetta 3
Crysis 3
Luigi Mansion 3
Monster Hunter Rise/Sunbreak
Witcher 3
Nier Automata
Mario and Rabbids Sparks of Hope
I will probably edit my list once I see what you guys have down lol
You can only pick up to 15 Switch games to get a free complete Remaster level upgrade for drake, which ones you picking? Games releasing in 2023 and beyond are not eligible.
For Me:
Astral Chain
Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3
Xenoblade Chronicles 3
Xenoblade Chronicles 2/Torna
Kirby and the Forgotten Lands
Mario Odyssey
Metroid DREAD
Warframe
Bayonetta 3
Crysis 3
Luigi Mansion 3
Monster Hunter Rise/Sunbreak
Witcher 3
Nier Automata
Mario and Rabbids Sparks of Hope
I will probably edit my list once I see what you guys have down lol
You can only pick up to 15 Switch games to get a free complete Remaster level upgrade for drake, which ones you picking? Games releasing in 2023 and beyond are not eligible.
For Me:
Astral Chain
Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3
Xenoblade Chronicles 3
Xenoblade Chronicles 2/Torna
Kirby and the Forgotten Lands
Mario Odyssey
Metroid DREAD
Warframe
Bayonetta 3
Crysis 3
Luigi Mansion 3
Monster Hunter Rise/Sunbreak
Witcher 3
Nier Automata
Mario and Rabbids Sparks of Hope
Coincidentally the Jetson Orion nano models are using 1.5 GHz for CPU as well.. But only 6 core A78s, 625 Mhz for GPU and 68 GB/s LPDDR5 bandwidth. The higher end nano module uses 1024 cuda cores and maxes out at 15 watts..CPU 1.5GHz
GPU portable 1.3TFLOPs, docked 2.3TFLOPs
One of the big problems we've been having with these 8nm numbers is we are using high loads, and comparing that to Erista's medium loads, which is why I put both in the chart for Orin, Erista's SoC can consume ~7.5w when portable, it's just that we've been using Zelda botw which is only a medium load, so much lower ~5.4w power consumption, however 3 hours of gameplay for botw vs 2 hours of game play for the most demanding games on the platform, points out to us that the CPU and GPU draw much more power in those game
I'll only list the games I feel like deserve a remaster (enhanced resolution, textures, lighting etc.. and framerate) the most.You can only pick 15 Switch games to get a free complete Remaster level upgrade for drake, which ones you picking? Games releasing in 2023 and beyond are not eligible.
If I understand correctly what that's trying to show, the two shadows come from two different types of extrapolation. One is from pure motion extrapolation of the image (the shadow which ends up too far back) and one is a newly generated shadow based on extrapolated geometry. The larger "DLSS3" system aims to be smart enough to know what to do when these two different types of extrapolation disagree.
I did a quick Twitter search and found some things from an NVIDIA guy (or so says his bio).
Ooh, yea, the future of dedicated video game systems gets interesting.Thinking beyond the launch of this device, I’m very interested to see how/if the industry shifts if the power increase causes Nintendo to encroach upon the market share of the other 2 major platform holders. If this thing is able to reach near parity on major 3rd party ports like COD/Warzone, NBA2K, Madden, Assassin’s Creed, I wonder how many consumers will start to look at Drake as a truly viable Primary console.
I’m sure everyone in the industry has been keeping a close eye on it with how Switch moves software. And Now we’re seeing bigger focus on the PC handheld releases despite those existing for a while now. SteamDeck 2 is pretty much a given now well the current iteration is doing.
It gonna do great regardless but it just seems like generally the Switch’s success is a potential major plot twist to where the Industry is headed fast. Trends that are taking over like hardware agnosticism for software, and death of physical media, the Switch seems to go against all of that as it’s extremely strong in those areas. Sure technically, Switch games can easily be played elsewhere but people don’t want to play them elsewhere. Don’t really think the industry expected people to enjoy a hybrid experience so much and want to see what Drake does and if they really need to make a move to serve that market as well.
Astral Chain. Bayo 3. Metroid Prime 4. BOTW 1. Monster Hunter Rise. Mario and Luigi Sparks of Hope. Metroid Dread. Xeno 3. Super Mario Odyssey. Xeno 2. tbh i dont think there are many options lol.You can only pick up to 15 Switch games to get a free complete Remaster level upgrade for drake, which ones you picking? Games releasing in 2023 and beyond are not eligible.
For Me:
Astral Chain
Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3
Xenoblade Chronicles 3
Xenoblade Chronicles 2/Torna
Kirby and the Forgotten Lands
Mario Odyssey
Metroid DREAD
Warframe
Bayonetta 3
Crysis 3
Luigi Mansion 3
Monster Hunter Rise/Sunbreak
Witcher 3
Nier Automata
Mario and Rabbids Sparks of Hope
I will probably edit my list once I see what you guys have down lol
Lots of folks play exclusively on the Tee Vee. Many people here have been surprised I don't own a 4K set and, in fact, haven't played on a TV in years. I have to work to remember there are people who enjoying playing on a giant screen.Now for the questions.
- what can a big stationary box offer to the mass market, relative to a hybrid?
- can this box meet both the energy and cost restraints?
I think it's hard to tell what the next feature will be. It will likely be hardware accelerated AI, but it might not be. Or it may get so rapidly integrated that by the next gen, that is a given and there is a leap beyond that one. There are likely to be innovations in cloud streaming, VR, and massive procedural generation over the next generation as well, and while a hybrid can theoretically offer all these possibilities, not only are set top boxes generally better positioned, they're better positioned across the board on these things.
- what does this box offer to game design, again relative to a hybrid? Are we at a point with mobile/hybrid hardware (Drake being the particular example for this) where it has caught up just enough with game design, such that going forward, the progression of mobile tech keeps up well enough with the evolution of game design? In other words, at so and so time, sure, a big stationary box has the power to unlock higher complexity in game design, but would it be significantly/meaningfully more?
- You can only pick up to 15 Switch games to get a free complete Remaster level upgrade for drake, which ones you picking? Games releasing in 2023 and beyond are not eligible.
For Me:
Astral Chain
Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3
Xenoblade Chronicles 3
Xenoblade Chronicles 2/Torna
Kirby and the Forgotten Lands
Mario Odyssey
Metroid DREAD
Warframe
Bayonetta 3
Crysis 3
Luigi Mansion 3
Monster Hunter Rise/Sunbreak
Witcher 3
Nier Automata
Mario and Rabbids Sparks of Hope
I will probably edit my list once I see what you guys have down lol
You can only pick up to 15 Switch games to get a free complete Remaster level upgrade for drake, which ones you picking? Games releasing in 2023 and beyond are not eligible.
For Me:
Astral Chain
Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3
Xenoblade Chronicles 3
Xenoblade Chronicles 2/Torna
Kirby and the Forgotten Lands
Mario Odyssey
Metroid DREAD
Warframe
Bayonetta 3
Crysis 3
Luigi Mansion 3
Monster Hunter Rise/Sunbreak
Witcher 3
Nier Automata
Mario and Rabbids Sparks of Hope
I will probably edit my list once I see what you guys have down lol