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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

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darthdiablo said:
Just so I have some point of reference - what kind of wattage are we looking for that we want to be the limit (before it goes HAWT HAWT)?
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no idea, mind you this is just what i saw when i was running thraktors formula to see what kinda numbers we're lookin at so i view this as a very fuzzy estimate to begin with. i dont know where to even begin with to compare this (which i think is just the gpu) and the numbers ive seen from people measuring switch power consumption, which is the entire switch at once. and ive only ever seen anandtechs og switch measurements

late edit: im using what i found from thraktor here and here
 
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Aufhebung RPG said:
As discussed yesterday, his translation is wrong, and from my understanding of Japanese, Furukawa's phrase does not refer to the "successor to the switch concept", but merely repeats the word "successor".
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FWIW, it doesn’t sound like Gibson is referring to the tweet that got released to announce the Direct/Switch Successor announcement.

Seems like he is just retweeting to add additional context to what he heard afterwards during Nintendo’s earnings call that occurs after the FY earnings press release. Which is a normal occurrence for any company during their earnings announcements. With Furukawa answering a question that got asked of him which is what Gibson’s response seems to refer to.

I’ve not seen the Q&A if there was one that occurred. Or any of the discussion that got held online. But thats my interpretation of Gibson’s tweets phrasing. Gibson is also based in Tokyo so he could easily tune in for the earnings call that had occurred.
 
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I wake up (it's just before 7am in my time zone) and there are what feels like 100 new pages. Has something happened? Are there any new rumors/leaks? Could someone maybe tell me in 2 or 3 sentences what's going on? That would be very nice. 😅
 
GuardianStalker said:
I wake up (it's just before 7am in my time zone) and there are what feels like 100 new pages. Has something happened? Are there any new rumors/leaks? Could someone maybe tell me in 2 or 3 sentences what's going on? That would be very nice. 😅
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@LiC found out through shipment data that the system will have LPDDR5X RAM. Big news IMO.
 
shoichi said:
FWIW, it doesn’t sound like Gibson is referring to the tweet that got released to announce the Direct/Switch Successor announcement. Seems like he is just retweeting to add additional context to what he heard afterwards.

But an earnings call that occurs after the FY earnings press release. Which is a normal occurrence for any company during their earnings announcements. With Furukawa answering a question that got asked of him which is what Gibson’s response seems to refer to.

I’ve not seen the Q&A if there was one that occurred. Or any of the discussion that got held online. But thats my interpretation of Gibson’s tweets phrasing.
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The Q&A hasn’t been released yet, it usually takes 3-4 days for that to happen. But I agree with your message.
 
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shoichi said:
FWIW, it doesn’t sound like Gibson is referring to the tweet that got released to announce the Direct/Switch Successor announcement.

Seems like he is just retweeting to add additional context to what he heard afterwards during an earnings call that occurs after the FY earnings press release. Which is a normal occurrence for any company during their earnings announcements. With Furukawa answering a question that got asked of him which is what Gibson’s response seems to refer to.

I’ve not seen the Q&A if there was one that occurred. Or any of the discussion that got held online. But thats my interpretation of Gibson’s tweets phrasing. Gibson is also based in Tokyo so he could easily tune in for the earnings call that had occurred.
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Yes, but the answer was literally just Furukawa no-commenting to someone who asked him "is it meaningful that you called it the successor to the Switch? Does that mean it's similar to Switch?" Furukawa said he couldn't confirm anything about the hardware. Then he said "we decided to use the language 'the successor to Nintendo Switch' [for the tweet]" without elaborating. Gibson turned his no comment into a confirmation of the thing he specifically said he wasn't commenting on.
 
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The Chinese version was translated and released yesterday, and I can clearly say that Furukawa still hasn't discussed the concept of "successor," which simply means "next-gen Nintendo console."
 
ZonaiResearcher said:
Waiting for the official English translation so we don’t have to speculate about the meaning of certain words or phrases
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Individualised said:
Are there really no Japanese speakers here?
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This isn't a case where any words or phrases are in doubt. I don't think there's any ambiguity in this machine translation, where an investor is asking for details about the hardware based on their own (weird) understanding of what "successor" implies, and Furukawa simply declines to give them any such details.
 
Dizzle said:
Do you all only wear cargo pants? Is it a coat pocket in a parka? It wouldn't even fit in my shoulder bag. I legitimately cannot fathom it.
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I don't keep my Joy-Cons on my Switch, and I keep my Pro Controller in a laptop bag. Slips right into my jogger or jean pocket.
 
Aufhebung RPG said:
As discussed yesterday, his translation is wrong, and from my understanding of Japanese, Furukawa's phrase does not refer to the "successor to the switch concept", but merely repeats the word "successor".
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Sorry but one point of clarification. This guy refers to the earnings call, which is a tad different from the q&a we all read. The latter was edited, the former was not. Maybe he said it afterall. Like this tweet was produced before the Q&A was even out.

Edit: I see this was discussed in the subsequent messages. My point is i would not take the Q&A at face value.
 
casualreader said:
Sorry but one point of clarification. This guy refers to the earnings call, which is a tad different from the q&a we all read. The latter was edited, the former was not. Maybe he said it afterall. Like this tweet was produced before the Q&A was even out.

Edit: I see this was discussed in the subsequent messages. My point is i would not take the Q&A at face value.
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You wouldn't take this part of the Q&A, where Furukawa responds directly to someone asking him "does the wording you chose mean the hardware is like the Switch?" with "I'm not going to tell you anything about the hardware," at face value? So he secretly did say "next Switch model" or something on the call, confirming it is like the Switch, instead of just saying that the pre-prepared PR phrase was the appropriate way to describe it, and they just edited that out and made him say the opposite?
 
Was looking at the reddit post about today's information again. Saw a guy telling others to expect another shitty wifi chip again so 10mbs down would be the max. Is there any truth to this? I didn't think any data was found relating to this.
 
oldpuck said:
Yes
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umm...No?

Yes, RDNA2 On Desktop has a notable advantage....when 2CUs outperform 1SM.

BUT that is due to Infinity Cache and their super high clocks. The reduction in stalling it provides combined with the raw cycles it can output in a given time due to the clockspeed allow it to overtake Ampere as 2CUs become more efficient than 1 Ampere SM (Same Shader count with 64 per CU in RDNA2 and 128 per SM in Ampere)

However, Series S has NONE of that


No Infinity Cache, No High Clocks (Series S is1.56-ish GHz vs the well excess of 2GHz of the rest of RDNA2's stack).

So the super low Warp/Scheduler count pretty much gets stuck behind a solid wall whenever you give it any major workload.

Meanwhile Ampere (and Switch 2 especially) has the width RDNA2 lacks. Meaning it can get a larger workload and work through it with the bottlenecks being inner-GPU Stalling and raw compute time versus a raw size limit that RDNA can run into easily (and attempts to bruteforce via high clocks and Infinity Cache)

So, Switch 2, at what is increasingly appearing to be at 1.3GHz docked, will pretty much have everything going for it


T239 GPU: 576 Warps, 48 Schedulers, 1536 Shaders, 12 RT cores, and 48 Tensor cores to spread workload within a warp on, RT Cores are so fast the bottleneck is the shaders delivering the final result ironically, Tensor cores can work with Mixed-Precision workloads and INT-Focus workloads. Half each SM's Shaders can also work in INT32 Mode to further accelerate RT.

Series S GPU: 640 Warps, but only 40 Schedulers. With only 1280 Shaders in isolation to spread work onto. Doubly hurt by the fact that RDNA2 RT devotes a full CU of Shaders/Warps to that task (literally turns off the TMUs in the CU). So Not only does it lack Tensor Core hardware to offload things like Upscaling, Denoising. But RT especially saps resources more than it is maximizing them. That is before you consider how AMD's Ray Accelerators in RDNA2 are so slow that A SINGLE NVIDIA RT Core at 1GHz can outpace every Ray accelerator in the PS5 combined.

So Switch 2 can do more work more efficiently than Series S as it has more resources to spread work across and it can "plan" ahead of time more.

If Series S had Infinity Cache, it'd probably outpace Switch 2 (outside of RT). But without it? RDNA's stalling problem comes in to play again and with a vengeance with the lower-than average clockspeed (lower than even Steam Deck's peak clock).


If you wanted to match Switch 2 consistently (again sans RT) with a IC-less RDNA2 GPU, you'd need 24CUs at minimum. Which we sort of see with Series X having a lower clock but going for a very wide layout to try to avoid the overallocation problem to an extent (meanwhile PS5 falls more in-line with Desktop RDNA2's sensibilities of Narrow and High Clocked)
 
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Not sure why some folks are confused. Furukawa's word on "successor" seems like he meant something like Game Boy -> Game Boy Advance or DS -> 3DS. Wanting to keep what made the Switch great (hybrid console) and just improve on it with even better hardware.
 
nyaako said:
Not sure why some folks are confused. Furukawa's word on "successor" seems like he meant something like Game Boy -> Game Boy Advance or DS -> 3DS. Wanting to keep what made the Switch great (hybrid console) and just improve on it with even better hardware.
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This isn't about an interpretation. Gibson posted a tweet claiming Furukawa had said a certain thing, and therefore that Furukawa had confirmed the new hardware was like the Switch. But Furukawa didn't say that, which means Furukawa didn't confirm that. And in fact it was the opposite, what Gibson is trying to quote here was Furukawa refusing to confirm anything about the nature of the hardware. So that's what I'm hung up on. Gibson's tweet is factually incorrect. What anyone else thinks "successor" means, or the announcement tweet's wording means, isn't the question here.
 
LiC said:
You wouldn't take this part of the Q&A, where Furukawa responds directly to someone asking him "does the wording you chose mean the hardware is like the Switch?" with "I'm not going to tell you anything about the hardware," at face value? So he secretly did say "next Switch model" or something on the call, confirming it is like the Switch, instead of just saying that the pre-prepared PR phrase was the appropriate way to describe it, and they just edited that out and made him say the opposite?
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There is such a gap between the two versions, i want to give the guy who reported the benefit of the doubt, especially as there is no reason (alas) for Nintendo to make the device anything other than a switch.
Besides how can we be sure both statements refer to the same question? I would think there was more than 8 questions asked, I can be wrong.
 
casualreader said:
There is such a gap between the two versions, i want to give the guy who reported the benefit of the doubt, especially as there is no reason (alas) for Nintendo to make the device anything other than a switch.
Besides how can we be sure both statements refer to the same question? I would think there was more than 8 questions asked, I can be wrong.
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Gibson: "Switch next model is the appropriate way to describe it."

Machine: "We decided that it would be best to use the expression 'successor to the Nintendo Switch.'"

It's the same response, except that the first one is doing the opposite of what Furukawa said (confirming something about the hardware), and the second one is just reiterating the clearly pre-prepared PR phrase from the announcement tweet like you would expect them to.

But I give up. If people don't care that Gibson reported something untrue -- regardless of whether the reality is the hardware being like the Switch or not -- then I guess I can't convince them to care.
 
ZonaiResearcher said:
16GB for now but PS6 and next-gen Xbox are coming sooner now that MS/Sony have both admitted their consoles flopped this gen. No doubt we’ll have more RAM in those which could be a problem for Switch 2 to keep up with.
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PS6 is 2028 at this moment, this means + 3 years and half from Switch 2 release.

Then, games will be cross gen for at least 2 years, so this is gonna be “”a problem”” in 2029/2030, waiting Switch 3.
 
So would we assume that by being taped-out around the time of Lovelace, while most likely using the Grace memory controller.
TSMC's 4N is looking more likely than ever one might think?
 
LiC said:
I don't have time to compile the details, but, from the shipment listings:

The console has 12 GB RAM, from two 6 GB 7500 MT/s LPDDR5 (LPDDR5X? it's unclear) modules. The internal storage is 256 GB of UFS 3.1.

Thank you to several other people who have been sharing in the research on these listings to determine this.

Edit: I put this in hide tags without thinking because it's shipment stuff, but this is going to get out no matter what, so I might as well remove them.
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Im still catching up with this thread and bam you just dropped the bomb of all bombs :)

Also Fami Fam its very safe to say we are not in that dreadful February no more
 
carbvan said:
Was looking at the reddit post about today's information again. Saw a guy telling others to expect another shitty wifi chip again so 10mbs down would be the max. Is there any truth to this? I didn't think any data was found relating to this.
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Probably nintendooming. It isn't just the chip it is purposely capped down because of resources like memory and network.

Which made sense. I remember playing smash bros ultimate years ago on WLAN and I still would get the screen freezing on me.
 
LiC said:
Gibson: "Switch next model is the appropriate way to describe it."

Machine: "We decided that it would be best to use the expression 'successor to the Nintendo Switch.'"

It's the same response, except that the first one is doing the opposite of what Furukawa said (confirming something about the hardware), and the second one is just reiterating the clearly pre-prepared PR phrase from the announcement tweet like you would expect them to.

But I give up. If people don't care that Gibson reported something untrue -- regardless of whether the reality is the hardware being like the Switch or not -- then I guess I can't convince them to care.
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If we're pitting a machine translation against a human one I'd err on the side of the human translation. Especially for something that's JP->EN.
 
It finally feels like we're getting somewhere, not just because of Nintendo's announcement but also because of the shipment data. I've skimmed the thread and gotten to the post, and my excitement flew through the roof.

It's happening, finally, and the machine looks like such a beast.

It looks like a very iterative successor, and i'm more than fine with that. To hell with the OLED screen if not having it reduces costs.

Give me those 12 GB LPDDR5 and 256 GB of storage, baby!
 
Toad King said:
If we're pitting a machine translation against a human one I'd err on the side of the human translation. Especially for something that's JP->EN.
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We don't need a translation to know what he said. The phrase Furukawa and the investor both used is, specifically, the phrase from the announcement tweet. But that's not what's even important. I only posted that comparison because someone asked me how I can be sure Gibson's (mis)quote and the Q&A answer were the same response.

The investor asked "does this phrase mean the hardware is like the Switch." Furukawa replied "I'm not going to confirm anything about the hardware." So Gibson is reporting incorrectly by saying Furukawa said something that confirms the hardware is like the Switch. End of story.
 
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