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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

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Serif said:
That Digital Foundry T239 simulation used a 4 GB 2050, the Matrix demo wouldn't even boot with that little VRAM.

Would like to see a redo with the larger amount and bandwidth we're now aware of.
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I would bet they try it again once full details are out, close to release.


Also maybe I am confusing Nvidia for someone else, but didn't they have superhero names or is it both that and Norse myth names?
 
Lancelot said:
I get what you mean with the "can't compare them" argument but there's no question here, with significantly more memory bandwidth over the original Steam Deck model it's gonna rip (gpu wise) over any of these PC handhelds in the real world, this is the final confirmation we needed on that matter. If anything, these PC handhelds can't compete with the Switch 2, not the other way around.
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But don't you see, because the nominal amount is smaller than the Deck, Nintendo has no right to charge more than $400 and it's just like when they overpriced the 3DS.

🙄
 
Mango said:
I don't understand all this tech talk, but these specs are good, like guaranteed ports good right?
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As always it depends on the publisher more than anything.
But, it's closer to the Series S in terms of raw power than not, so it's definitely a possibility.
 
Mango said:
I don't understand all this tech talk, but these specs are good, like guaranteed ports good right?
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even if the system was stronger than Series X, it's not a guarantee

SirArthur said:
I would bet they try it again once full details are out, close to release.


Also maybe I am confusing Nvidia, but difnt they have superhero names or is it both that and Norse myth names?
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the norse names is for the mainboard, the superhero names is for the SoC
 
I haven't had a chance to read through everything, but nice job on all the sleuthing. If anyone finds an indication that the new pro controller has a headphone jack, let me know lol.
 
Serif said:
That Digital Foundry T239 simulation used a 4 GB 2050, the Matrix demo wouldn't even boot with that little VRAM.

Would like to see a redo with the larger amount and bandwidth we're now aware of.
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The only question though is how do you reliably do the test without making the hypothetical performance floor way too high? Let's say 10 GB of RAM is available to games. 8 GB goes to the GPU, 2 GB to the CPU (though I doubt it'll need that much.) Anything that would have 8 GB of VRAM would still be leagues beyond the Switch 2's capabilities even after downclocking and fucking with it to oblivion.
Lancelot said:
I get what you mean with the "can't compare them" argument but there's no question here, with significantly more memory bandwidth over the original Steam Deck model it's gonna rip (gpu wise) over any of these PC handhelds in the real world, this is the final confirmation we needed on that matter. If anything, these PC handhelds can't compete with the Switch 2, not the other way around.
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Oh 100%. In this instance, the Switch 2 is gonna eat the Steam Deck for breakfast, second breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Was just kinda making a general note on how difficult it is to compare bandwidth.
 
Serif said:
But don't you see, because the nominal amount is smaller than the Deck, Nintendo has no right to charge more than $400 and it's just like when they overpriced the 3DS.

🙄
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These people aside... It's a beast of a device already, I seriously didn't expect them to embrace LPDDR5X and actually use its higher speeds. This is shaping up to be the fastest GPU to ever be put on a handheld device by the time of release, before the Nvidia specific tricks. Docked mode also has much more of an opportunity to leverage its targeted 4 TFLOPS which is kinda insane, an actual PS4 Pro level device is now on the table... It's mindblowing.
 
Gerald said:
PS6 is Late 2028 based on reports, he just mean enter second half of life cycle
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I'm not sure what reports you are referring to, Mat Piscatella believes it will be coming in 2027. My personal view is that a late 2026 launch is likely if the PS5 Pro fails to make a splash in the market, and based on how Switch 2 does its first year. If Switch 2 is able to handle ports of Xbox Series X/PS5 games, that is going to hurt Sony a lot because they don't have a lower-priced console in the market.
ohlawd said:
I am getting flashbacks to "VRAM in 2020-2024: Why 10GB is enough" which is from 2020 and it's aged like milk. It's got GDDR6X it's fast as fuck boiii. I lived that life. my 3080 from 2020 was feeling dire by 2022. Deadweight in 2024. Turns out the speed that people thought would compensate ended up not. Yeah, it's not a directly related situation. But I got the same feeling of dread lol. I'm not even worried about Series X/PS5 ports. I'm sure it'll be fine there. it's the gen after that I think about. wonder if devs are gonna have to go out their way to miracle port their stuff for next gen which is probably like what 4 years away?
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That's what I'm saying, the Series X/PS5 gen has not met Microsoft or Sony's expectations and they're going to have to release the next generation sooner than they did with the XOne/PS4 generation. When that happens, they're going to have to massively upgrade the specs from this generation to make up for the shortfalls that are already being seen, and that could leave Switch 2 in the dust.
 
ILikeFeet said:
if there is a microphone in the joycon, I wonder if we would see the return of Just Sing

Just_sing_boxart.jpg
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You might be interested. Nintendo filed a new trademark for SiNG Party back in 2022 I believe.
 
Lancelot said:
These people aside... It's a beast of a device already, I seriously didn't expect them to embrace LPDDR5X and actually use its higher speeds. This is shaping up to be the fastest GPU to ever be put on a handheld device by the time of release, before the Nvidia specific tricks. Docked mode also has much more of an opportunity to leverage its targeted 4 TFLOPS which is kinda insane, an actual PS4 Pro level device is now on the table... It's mindblowing.
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It is a very forward thinking device. For comparison Google didn't upgrade to LPDDR5X on their Pixel line until late last year, the Switch 2 has the same RAM type and amount as the expensive Pixel 8 Pro. The Switch 2 will have better RAM than my current phone, the Pixel 7, which already feels quick and snappy. I really want Nintendo to just go beast mode with this device, there's literally nothing else like it on the hardware and software front.
 
lattjeful said:
Steam Deck has 16 GB of LPDDR5 6400 MT/s RAM VS. the Switch 2's alleged 12 GB of LPDDR5(X?) 7500 MT/s RAM. Breaking that down into bandwidth numbers, that's 88 GB/s for the Steam Deck and 120 GB/s for the Switch 2. On paper the Switch 2 has it beat in bandwidth, but not quantity. That being said...

As a general note, it's hard to compare them. Like, really hard. Their architectures don't handle memory bandwidth the same, and the environments are different too. One is a portable PC that plays games and another a game console with a closed ecosystem. I also don't know off the top of my head how much memory the Steam Deck allocates to the OS, nor do we know how much the Switch 2's OS will use. The Deck's extra RAM could matter or it could not if a bunch of its memory is going to the OS, the Switch 2's closed environment and higher level of accessibility/programming provided by NVN means that you can better optimize ports, or even optimize them in the first place compared to the Deck! Fun stuff like that.

Putting it in car terms, It's not so much comparing a sports car to a truck, but rather like comparing a Miata to a Honda S2K. Yeah they're both sporty vehicles, both convertibles, and at a surface level do the same thing of providing a fun experience (yay fast* cars, yay gaming), but everything from how it makes power/how the engine revs out, to the suspension of the cars, and to the design ethos is different.

*lol nah
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Minor correction but 6400MT/s for the deck translates to 102GB/s. 5500MT/s gives 88GB/s.
 
ZonaiResearcher said:
I'm not sure what reports you are referring to, Mat Piscatella believes it will be coming in 2027. My personal view is that a late 2026 launch is likely if the PS5 Pro fails to make a splash in the market, and based on how Switch 2 does its first year. If Switch 2 is able to handle ports of Xbox Series X/PS5 games, that is going to hurt Sony a lot because they don't have a lower-priced console in the market.
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Piscatella is only analysts, im based info on Tom Henderson who have 100% track with Sony, Also we don’t know Switch 2 price, and PS5 will most likely have cut in price before PS5 Pro premiere
 
For a console as big as the ROG Ally (I remember saying here I wanted something of that size (better weight distribution, and we should have bigger joy-cons for better ergonomics), and some people didn't like what I said at all LMAO), I can only think Nintendo is coming with a not so great node, or they are using 4N AND are gonna push clocks as much as possible (which I would love, of course)

My mind says to expect not so great node, but my heart is all in on 4N with the highest clock possible.

But it's also possible they went with 4N and will prioritize battery life to get like 5 hours even in games like the next mario kart.
 
Kise Ryota said:
For a console as big as the ROG Ally (I remember saying here I wanted something of that size (better weight distribution, and we should have bigger joy-cons for better ergonomics), and some people didn't like what I said at all LMAO), I can only think Nintendo is coming with a not so great node, or they are using 4N AND are gonna push clocks as much as possible (which I would love, of course)

My mind says to expect not so great node, but my heart is all in on 4N with the highest clock possible.

But it's also possible they went with 4N and will prioritize battery life to get like 5 hours even in games like the next mario kart.
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I’m think they will go with 5W for CPU and 5W for GPU on TSMC 4N
 
Also the specs should always take into consideration that they're trying to reach a certain price point.

I'd love 512 GB UFS 3.1 and an OLED screen, but I'd rather be in the world where we have guaranteed 12 GB LPDDR5X across all versions of the console from launch til sunset, stuff like the storage capacity and screen can be expanded or changed later, whether through expandable storage or new models. Meanwhile all developers from Day 0 will be targeting this RAM amount and bandwidth.
Kise Ryota said:
For a console as big as the ROG Ally (I remember saying here I wanted something of that size (better weight distribution, and we should have bigger joy-cons for better ergonomics), and some people didn't like what I said at all LMAO), I can only think Nintendo is coming with a not so great node, or they are using 4N AND are gonna push clocks as much as possible (which I would love, of course)
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The estimated dimensions are roughly ROG ally size in the X and Y dimensions, and a large part may be for the sake of a more ergonomic viewing experience with a 1080p screen. We have reason to believe it is still thinner based on case dimensions, possibly as thin as the original Switch.
 
Serif said:
It is a very forward thinking device. For comparison Google didn't upgrade to LPDDR5X on their Pixel line until late last year, the Switch 2 has the same RAM type and amount as the expensive Pixel 8 Pro. The Switch 2 will have better RAM than my current phone, the Pixel 7, which already feels quick and snappy. I really want Nintendo to just go beast mode with this device, there's literally nothing else like it on the hardware and software front.
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And the GPU arch in it is still better than Qualcomm's and Apple's and even Intels in 2024/25.
 
Lancelot said:
These people aside... It's a beast of a device already, I seriously didn't expect them to embrace LPDDR5X and actually use its higher speeds. This is shaping up to be the fastest GPU to ever be put on a handheld device by the time of release, before the Nvidia specific tricks. Docked mode also has much more of an opportunity to leverage its targeted 4 TFLOPS which is kinda insane, an actual PS4 Pro level device is now on the table... It's mindblowing.
Click to expand...
Reminder that the Switch 2019 revision featured LPDDR4X at a time when the latest MacBook Pros were using LPDDR3 or DDR4 and those didn't gain LPDDR4X until 2020.
 
Serif said:
It is a very forward thinking device. For comparison Google didn't upgrade to LPDDR5X on their Pixel line until late last year, the Switch 2 has the same RAM type and amount as the expensive Pixel 8 Pro. The Switch 2 will have better RAM than my current phone, the Pixel 7, which already feels quick and snappy. I really want Nintendo to just go beast mode with this device, there's literally nothing else like it on the hardware and software front.
Click to expand...
Let's hope MLID was on the right all along and the dock will indeed have a fan plus target 4 TFLOPS, I think that's as good as it gets. That will also imply a 2 TFLOPS on handheld which would be excellent... Time to start hoping for 4N ya' all, it's the only piece of the puzzle left.
 
Lancelot said:
Let's hope MLID was on the right all along and the dock will indeed have a fan plus target 4 TFLOPS, I think that's as good as it gets. That will also imply a 2 TFLOPS on handheld which would be excellent... Time to start hoping for 4N ya' all, it's the only piece of the puzzle left.
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I certainly DON'T hope for a fan in the dock, but 2TF in handheld mode with 4N certainly tracks!
 
Serif said:
The estimated dimensions are roughly ROG ally size in the X and Y dimensions, and a large part may be for the sake of a more ergonomic viewing experience with a 1080p screen. We have reason to believe it is still thinner based on case dimensions, possibly as thin as the original Switch.
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It's basically my Switch V1 + Hori Split Pad Pro, so nothing new to me (except the extra height)
Anyway, like I said, it was unthinkable here when I suggested a console the same size of the Ally, even keeping the same thickness :ROFLMAO:

All I can say is that I'm happy to probably have a good handheld experience out of the box this time around (unless they keep small buttons and short travel distance sticks, then I'll need help from 3rd parties again)
 
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I am leaning 4N additionally due to the estimated thickness of the console / controllers from shipping data, being around Switch 1 thickness. I suppose 8 is still possible with those dimensions but then there's the whole question of why design a chip like this for a thin console, incorporate the latest RAM type, yet use that node. Then there's the Gamescom rumors from last year which make additional sense with this new context. I am choosing to feel optimistic, if one can call it that.

The records of course do not confirm a size but I'm also inclined to believe Nintendo will not ship a significantly thicker device concerning their audience and style. In my experience with the Deck, it is mainly the thickness and weight that make it feel more cumbersome, the length and height have mattered less.
 
Serif said:
I am leaning 4N additionally due to the estimated thickness of the console / controllers from shipping data, being around Switch 1 thickness. I suppose 8 is still possible with those dimensions but then there's the whole question of why design a chip like this for a thin console, incorporate the latest RAM type, yet use that node. Then there's the Gamescom rumors from last year which make additional sense with this new context. I am choosing to feel optimistic, if one can call it that.
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Optimistic is not the antithesis of realistic.

And I think you're being realistic. 😉
 
Instro said:
I haven't had a chance to read through everything, but nice job on all the sleuthing. If anyone finds an indication that the new pro controller has a headphone jack, let me know lol.
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I just need it to have better bluetooth audio quality to begin with. And I’m pretty sure we’ll get it.
 
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Gerald said:
Piscatella is only analysts, im based info on Tom Henderson who have 100% track with Sony, Also we don’t know Switch 2 price, and PS5 will most likely have cut in price before PS5 Pro premiere
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Switch 2 has to cost $400. Switch OLED is already $350 and the BOM for Switch 2 is going to be more than it is with Switch OLED. Plus Nintendo can't go with a $500 console because it won't be kid-friendly at that price, and then it ends up competing with Xbox Series X and PS5. One thing Digital Foundry has been pointing out with this generation is the lack of price cuts, PS5 had increased pricing in various markets and we've yet to see a permanent price cut in the U.S. apart from bundles or temporary promotions.
 
Mango said:
I don't understand all this tech talk, but these specs are good, like guaranteed ports good right?
Click to expand...
I'd imagine even a port that requires a little extra work on the level of say -- Doom Eternal or The Witcher 3's Switch conversions could have shortened conversion time since they'll have less to water down if they even have to come to that.
 
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