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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

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oldpuck said:
Counter point (to myself!). It's possible to customize the power curves of a chip - that's why Steam Deck performs better per watt than other PC handhelds using AMD chips which were designed for laptops.

Maybe Nintendo/Nvidia super optimize for handheld, and just need the extra power draw in docked to overcome the curve. Maybe you're right and the cooling doesn't need dramatic improvements to push the extra heat. So maybe yeah, a big-ass docked power draw.

Where I just get dubious - and this could totally be me not seeing something clearly - is a 3-5x power gap between the two modes. 2.5x? Sure. But 3x seems like a bad design choice, but I'm not a console designer, so what do I know?
Click to expand...

It does seem like a big gap, but the docked target resolution is 4x the handheld target resolution, vs the 2x of the Switch. DLSS muddies this a great deal since they could just rely more on upscaling when docked, but the resolution gap could be good motivation.
 
SoldierDelta said:
I don't think Pyoro can honestly be expected to verify it. A point made a while ago is that Pyoro hasn't done much in terms of hardware. If the Vandal article is to be believed (in addition to the Mochizuki speculation thing), then it was an in-person event. How is Pyoro to verify that? That's very hard to do unless he confirms it with multiple people who went to that event, which I imagine is very hard to do.

If someone can verify it, fine sure whatever, but it's not something that seems all too possible.
Click to expand...
OK, all the information we have now is that Famiboards Ninspider and Vandal's article and Mobapad's article and Pyoro's own private communication with his friends correspond or complement each other, so time will tell if the truth is so.
 
RennanNT said:
Money. They sell Pro Joycons and those looking for a better Switch are exactly their target audience. And with this leak, more of their target audience knows they exist.

99% of Switch accessories aren't licensed, the ones paying Nintendo a fee (like Hori, PowerA, Sandisk) will make sure you know they're licensed in the box and description. Mobapad is in that 99% and they didn't sign any contract with Nintendo, so they're most likely safe (their source would be in trouble if found though).
Click to expand...
I mean, maybe they aren't licenced for sure, but I assume that for Nintendo's own defence they make NDA's for everyone who wants to experience it, right? You can't close out people from NDA's who won't pay a fee, is what I'm thinking.
 
Apenknul said:
I mean, maybe they aren't licenced for sure, but I assume that for Nintendo's own defence they make NDA's for everyone who wants to experience it, right? You can't close out people from NDA's who won't pay a fee, is what I'm thinking.
Click to expand...
Yes. As I said, their source will be in trouble if Nintendo finds out who.

It was not someone at Mobapad who touched it. They just have contact with the people who did (and signed the NDA) and (supposedly) told them about.
 
RennanNT said:
Yes. As I said, their source will be in trouble if Nintendo finds out who.

It was not someone at Mobapad who touched it. They just have contact with the people who did (and signed the NDA) and (supposedly) told them about.
Click to expand...
Ah, okay. I see. This whole time I thought someone at Mobapad were the ones who touched it. Now it's being more clearly to me, thanks.
 
omniryu said:
It is ok, I will.

😲😲😲😲 your hands are beautiful 😍 🤩 !

That makes sense to me. You're selling an online service and you don't have a good way to offer voice communication? Just stick a mic on the controller and call it a day.
Click to expand...
Nintendo worry in adding in-voice communication on it next console,due to risk of creeps using this feature to attrack minors
 
BreakAtmo said:
It does seem like a big gap, but the docked target resolution is 4x the handheld target resolution, vs the 2x of the Switch. DLSS muddies this a great deal since they could just rely more on upscaling when docked, but the resolution gap could be good motivation.
Click to expand...
Its 4x as many pixels to use every pixel on the screen. I'm not sure it's 4x as many pixels to looks "basically as good as it does in my hand."

Just thinking out loud here - one way to think of it would be, if you suddenly had an 8k TV, just as far away from you as your current TV, at the same size of your current TV, would you want docked to be 8x as powerful?

I think you'd probably say "rendering at 8k is a waste, give me a prettier 4k image instead." So let's try asking a different question - is there a resolution that looks "as good" on the TV as the 1080p screen looks in my hand? Extra resolution might improve quality, or not, but really, what's the line where the experience is about the same.

There is no hard and fast answer to that question, but here is one way to look at it. The further back from an object, the smaller it looks. I hold my Switch about a foot from my face, the Switch 2 screen is 8 inches diagonal, roughly, and 1080p. We can compute, roughly, how "big" a pixel on that screen looks in my view.

My TV is about 6.5 feet away from my couch, and it's 50 inches. At what resolution is a pixel on that screen as big as the pixel on my Switch? Well, this is a little outside my area, but there are calculators exactly for this, it's a common enough problem in graphic design, especially for large posters and the like, at far distances.

The resolution is... actually 1080p at that distance, believe it or not. But that's for static detail, our eye tends to pick up more information when an object is moving, blurry and fuzziness get worse. So let's be generous and call it 1440p.

For games to have about the same image quality on my big screen TV as on a handheld, you only need about 1440p res. Higher res will improve quality of course, but that's why devs so often don't hit 4k on even the PS5. There are other ways to improve the quality of an image (depth of field, anti aliasing, anisotropic filtering, ray tracing) than resolution - better ways for certain kinds of games and content.

Devs will make the same kinds of compromises on Switch 2 no matter how much power you deliver. If the gap between the handheld and the docked configuration is too large, then when games can't hit full 4k on TV, they might have decent res there, with great effects, but cutting it down by 1/4 for the handheld will result in a spectacularly bad image.

Inevitably games will look like shite on the device. I think Nintendo will opt for a configuration that helps ensure that games that look like shite stay that way whether or not it's handheld, and games that look good stay looking good in both modes.
 
Two things:

What are the odds that Ninspider is affiliated with Mobapad?

If Nintendo doesn't make any moves towards Mobapad's post, which is more likely:

1. Nintendo doesn't consider it to be particularly threatening to their console reveal

2. They know the information is false and will just stay silent on it until someone at the next investors' meeting asks them about that information so they can deny it.
 
seyfeselassie said:
Two things:

What are the odds that Ninspider is affiliated with Mobapad?

If Nintendo doesn't make any moves towards Mobapad's post, which is more likely:

1. Nintendo doesn't consider it to be particularly threatening to their console reveal

2. They know the information is false and will just stay silent on it until someone at the next investors' meeting asks them about that information so they can deny it.
Click to expand...

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seyfeselassie said:
Two things:

What are the odds that Ninspider is affiliated with Mobapad?

If Nintendo doesn't make any moves towards Mobapad's post, which is more likely:

1. Nintendo doesn't consider it to be particularly threatening to their console reveal

2. They know the information is false and will just stay silent on it until someone at the next investors' meeting asks them about that information so they can deny it.
Click to expand...
If Ninspider is related to Mobapad then the whole thing is even more interesting, Ninspider revealed the hardware details of the new host in that thread before Mobapad and Vandal's article, and if Mobapad is Ninspider I'm leaning towards a higher level of information credibility instead.
 
seyfeselassie said:
Two things:

What are the odds that Ninspider is affiliated with Mobapad?
Click to expand...
As Pyoro has said, all this info has been bubbling around for a bit. The world’s grumpiest Fami detective, @LiC, considers this to be a viral marketing campaign.

This is an industry where industrial espionage is rampant - that’s why there are so many device clones that seem to crop out of nowhere. Reused molds, leaked dimensions, and legit and illegal companies being run by the same three people are all extremely common.

All of this to say that it’s possible for this to be a marketing campaign based on wide spread industry chatter, and the most likely explanation is that if ninspider isn’t making it up, they heard it in the same rumor mill the pyoro did.
seyfeselassie said:
If Nintendo doesn't make any moves towards Mobapad's post, which is more likely:

1. Nintendo doesn't consider it to be particularly threatening to their console reveal

2. They know the information is false and will just stay silent on it until someone at the next investors' meeting asks them about that information so they can deny it.
Click to expand...
If it is false or true doesn’t matter, Nintendo will move if they think that they’re losing control of the story.

If the reveal is imminent and this doesn’t get more than passing mention in some place like Bloomberg? Nintendo will ignore it regardless of its validity.

If it gets a lot of press and Nintendo wants to hold out for a while, they’ll take some action. Again, no matter of its validity.

They’ve shut down the truth and ignored bullshit and vice versa before.
 
Aufhebung RPG said:
If Ninspider is related to Mobapad then the whole thing is even more interesting, Ninspider revealed the hardware details of the new host in that thread before Mobapad and Vandal's article, and if Mobapad is Ninspider I'm leaning towards a higher level of information credibility instead.
Click to expand...
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chocolate_supra said:
The 1967 Corvette:
21587902-1967-chevrolet-corvette-std.jpg


The 1966 Corvette it was directly replacing:
1966_chevrolet_corvette_convertible_163658866519a31e16d20b88caA-21-scaled.jpg


If this new system were identical to the current Switch but added a couple small new features, then yeah, give it the same name and an indication that it's a slight upgrade. Like Nintendo Switch Lite, or Nintendo Switch OLED.

But it's not just the same thing with a little upgrade. It's a new thing. And even if it's considered part of the same product line (which it very well may be and I almost expect) there are still much better, more creative, more interesting names to indicate a new generation in the product line besides "2."

Nintendo has almost never done that. The only time they ever did was on an obscure Super Gameboy upgrade that never made it out of Japan. It is very much unlike Nintendo to go that route, and the only game console manufacturer afaik who ever even has is Sony.

Granted, I'm not saying it's impossible for Nintendo to do it, just that 1) it'd be way out of character for them and 2) I'd personally hope for a name with a lot more personality. If they had done what Sony did then the Super Nintendo would be Famicom 2, the Nintendo 64 would be Famicom 3, the GameCube would be Famicom 4, like.. how bleak would that have been?? I just hope for better. I hope for fun. It's Nintendo fer chrissakes.
Click to expand...
wtf how did you get such good quality photos of the Switch 2?
 
Aether said:
Oh...ooooh. 7 years of engineering could solve that problem. And swing how well apple Handel's the magsave connector, there could have happened some cross pollination with accessory makers ...

(I know magsafe is not using elektromagnets. I still haven't figured out how much power they use)

Ok, found an example, an elektromagnet that has 1kg as a max limit, and power consumption of 400mA at 5v. That's about an hour with the batteries of the joy cons.

Now one can argue switch 2 won't be more then 500g, and you have 2 to hold, so they don't need that much strength.

3 problems arise: picking up the switch on one joy con, swaying the switch with to much force (since the 1kg is with gravity, 9.8m/s, so if the switch is moved faster in any direction proportionally the weight the magnet can hold reduces), and...what if the power is out? Battery dies, joy cons just fall of?

What I do think:
If they chose magnets, they'll chose permanent magnets and use a mechanical mechanism to "deactivate" them, for example:
www.hvrmagnet.com

Can A Permanent Magnet Be Turned Off? How? - HVR MAG

Can a permanent magnet be turned off? How to demagnetize it? Get answers for these and learn about a new type of permanent electromagnets.
www.hvrmagnet.com

Or they just have the magnets be always active. I actually don't know if it would be a problem or interfere with something 🤔

Am I overthinking the electromagnet part?
Click to expand...

My thoughts are that only one side of the system needs to be electro magnetically charged (which would be on the tablet where the joycons connect). Them mentioning in that article of the SL and SR buttons now being metal, would make for the perfect conduit to connect to the magnetized section on the tablet.

Similar to how this magnetic lock below is only receiving current on one side to connect to the metal base plate that would attach to a door.
If any of you have used a ID badge at work on a secure door, those use electro magnetic locks to seal the door shut.
Not saying what Nintendo are using are remotely close to this strength, but the lock below can withstand 600lbs of force when active.
I would think if Nintendo came up with a solution it can withstand up to 10-20lbs of force before falling off...

Rosslare%20LK-M12%20magnetic%20lock%20UL_2.jpg


Rosslare Security, LK-M06L Magnetic lock with Lock Status and Indicator, 600 LBS

Check out the deal on Rosslare Security, LK-M06L Magnetic lock with Lock Status and Indicator, 600 LBS at maglocks
www.maglocks.com www.maglocks.com
 
oldpuck said:
Its 4x as many pixels to use every pixel on the screen. I'm not sure it's 4x as many pixels to looks "basically as good as it does in my hand."

Just thinking out loud here - one way to think of it would be, if you suddenly had an 8k TV, just as far away from you as your current TV, at the same size of your current TV, would you want docked to be 8x as powerful?

I think you'd probably say "rendering at 8k is a waste, give me a prettier 4k image instead." So let's try asking a different question - is there a resolution that looks "as good" on the TV as the 1080p screen looks in my hand? Extra resolution might improve quality, or not, but really, what's the line where the experience is about the same.

There is no hard and fast answer to that question, but here is one way to look at it. The further back from an object, the smaller it looks. I hold my Switch about a foot from my face, the Switch 2 screen is 8 inches diagonal, roughly, and 1080p. We can compute, roughly, how "big" a pixel on that screen looks in my view.

My TV is about 6.5 feet away from my couch, and it's 50 inches. At what resolution is a pixel on that screen as big as the pixel on my Switch? Well, this is a little outside my area, but there are calculators exactly for this, it's a common enough problem in graphic design, especially for large posters and the like, at far distances.

The resolution is... actually 1080p at that distance, believe it or not. But that's for static detail, our eye tends to pick up more information when an object is moving, blurry and fuzziness get worse. So let's be generous and call it 1440p.

For games to have about the same image quality on my big screen TV as on a handheld, you only need about 1440p res. Higher res will improve quality of course, but that's why devs so often don't hit 4k on even the PS5. There are other ways to improve the quality of an image (depth of field, anti aliasing, anisotropic filtering, ray tracing) than resolution - better ways for certain kinds of games and content.

Devs will make the same kinds of compromises on Switch 2 no matter how much power you deliver. If the gap between the handheld and the docked configuration is too large, then when games can't hit full 4k on TV, they might have decent res there, with great effects, but cutting it down by 1/4 for the handheld will result in a spectacularly bad image.

Inevitably games will look like shite on the device. I think Nintendo will opt for a configuration that helps ensure that games that look like shite stay that way whether or not it's handheld, and games that look good stay looking good in both modes.
Click to expand...

All fair points. My hope would be that developers would focus on making the games look as good as they can on handheld at 1080p DLSS with a dynamic 720p internal resolution, and for the docked mode simply go for the highest internal resolution the system allows, with a 2160p DLSS target because it matches most modern TVs, I might be more worried about upscaling artifacts than necessary but that's what I think. It may be because my TV experience is a bit different, I stand right up close to a 55" 2160p OLED.
 
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oldpuck said:
As Pyoro has said, all this info has been bubbling around for a bit. The world’s grumpiest Fami detective, @LiC, considers this to be a viral marketing campaign.

This is an industry where industrial espionage is rampant - that’s why there are so many device clones that seem to crop out of nowhere. Reused molds, leaked dimensions, and legit and illegal companies being run by the same three people are all extremely common.

All of this to say that it’s possible for this to be a marketing campaign based on wide spread industry chatter, and the most likely explanation is that if ninspider isn’t making it up, they heard it in the same rumor mill the pyoro did.
Click to expand...
The funny thing is that even though I think Mobapad is pretty blatantly pulling a marketing stunt, it doesn't really have any bearing on the credibility of the underlying info in this case. By the same token that the multiple places sharing it don't count to me as real corroboration -- because they've all just seen the same set of bullet points circulated by the same source -- the fact that one of those places is turning it into a shameless marketing ploy doesn't necessarily discredit the info, either.

But being the grumpy detective I am, I don't need reasons to disbelieve something, I need reasons to believe it in the first place, and right now we don't have those for this information. Better to assume it's as made up as the spate of "camera gimmick" rumors from the last time certain sources were trying to pretend they had knowledge of the hardware.
 
LiC said:
The funny thing is that even though I think Mobapad is pretty blatantly pulling a marketing stunt, it doesn't really have any bearing on the credibility of the underlying info in this case. By the same token that the multiple places sharing it don't count to me as real corroboration -- because they've all just seen the same set of bullet points circulated by the same source -- the fact that one of those places is turning it into a shameless marketing ploy doesn't necessarily discredit the info, either.
Click to expand...
Yes, that is exactly my opinion as well.

LiC said:
But being the grumpy detective I am, I don't need reasons to disbelieve something, I need reasons to believe it in the first place, and right now we don't have those for this information. Better to assume it's as made up as the spate of "camera gimmick" rumors from the last time certain sources were trying to pretend they had knowledge of the hardware.
Click to expand...
I considered it a compliment. :)
 
Funnily enough I bought the Mobapad Switch controller with Hall effect after getting tired of analog drift garbage.

oldpuck said:
Its 4x as many pixels to use every pixel on the screen. I'm not sure it's 4x as many pixels to looks "basically as good as it does in my hand."

Just thinking out loud here - one way to think of it would be, if you suddenly had an 8k TV, just as far away from you as your current TV, at the same size of your current TV, would you want docked to be 8x as powerful?

I think you'd probably say "rendering at 8k is a waste, give me a prettier 4k image instead." So let's try asking a different question - is there a resolution that looks "as good" on the TV as the 1080p screen looks in my hand? Extra resolution might improve quality, or not, but really, what's the line where the experience is about the same.

There is no hard and fast answer to that question, but here is one way to look at it. The further back from an object, the smaller it looks. I hold my Switch about a foot from my face, the Switch 2 screen is 8 inches diagonal, roughly, and 1080p. We can compute, roughly, how "big" a pixel on that screen looks in my view.

My TV is about 6.5 feet away from my couch, and it's 50 inches. At what resolution is a pixel on that screen as big as the pixel on my Switch? Well, this is a little outside my area, but there are calculators exactly for this, it's a common enough problem in graphic design, especially for large posters and the like, at far distances.

The resolution is... actually 1080p at that distance, believe it or not. But that's for static detail, our eye tends to pick up more information when an object is moving, blurry and fuzziness get worse. So let's be generous and call it 1440p.

For games to have about the same image quality on my big screen TV as on a handheld, you only need about 1440p res. Higher res will improve quality of course, but that's why devs so often don't hit 4k on even the PS5. There are other ways to improve the quality of an image (depth of field, anti aliasing, anisotropic filtering, ray tracing) than resolution - better ways for certain kinds of games and content.

Devs will make the same kinds of compromises on Switch 2 no matter how much power you deliver. If the gap between the handheld and the docked configuration is too large, then when games can't hit full 4k on TV, they might have decent res there, with great effects, but cutting it down by 1/4 for the handheld will result in a spectacularly bad image.

Inevitably games will look like shite on the device. I think Nintendo will opt for a configuration that helps ensure that games that look like shite stay that way whether or not it's handheld, and games that look good stay looking good in both modes.
Click to expand...
My uneducated guess would be that most games will target a base 720 resolution on handheld and base 1080 in the dock, similar to the Switch, with DLSS upscaling to a more ideal output (1:1 1080p for handheld, 1.5-2K for dock).
 
Steve said:
That’s actually a good question, I’m curious if it would keep cost down by a couple of buck's.

like if Nintendo were to remove them, their wouldn’t be much far cry since every day more and more companies are using Bluetooth instead.
Click to expand...
I will always hate the fact that Apple did away with the traditional headphone jack, leading to basically every phone brand doing the same.LMAO
 
Branduil said:
My uneducated guess would be that most games will target a base 720 resolution on handheld and base 1080 in the dock, similar to the Switch, with DLSS upscaling to a more ideal output (1:1 1080p for handheld, 1.5-2K for dock).
Click to expand...
I'm thinking we'll see more 540p in handheld and 720p in docked. but since DLSS supports dynamic, these will probably be the floor for most games

Steve said:
That’s actually a good question, I’m curious if it would keep cost down by a couple of buck's.

like if Nintendo were to remove them, their wouldn’t be much far cry since every day more and more companies are using Bluetooth instead.
Click to expand...
unless they're using the newest version of BT, that's a no-go. people found out he hard way why you don't see bt headphone support on gaming consoles with the switch
 
Steve said:
That’s actually a good question, I’m curious if it would keep cost down by a couple of buck's.

like if Nintendo were to remove them, their wouldn’t be much far cry since every day more and more companies are using Bluetooth instead.
Click to expand...
I don‘t believe that it would have much of an influence on the production cost. Also the next console will for sure be thick enough that something like that would have no influence on the design. If they decide against it, I think it would have to do more with that they found a major partner that is interested to sell Nintendo branded Bluetooth Headphones.
 
chocolate_supra said:
The tone of that post read as a joke to me. Like he was saying it'd be funny if that ended up being the case, not that that was the case.
Click to expand...

I read it as a joke as well.

However I thought most here assumed Ninspider was affiliated with Mobapad, guess that might not be the case. I could have swore Ninspider was hinting info was coming (like an article from Mobapad for example), but I might be misremembering.
 
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Giancarlo said:
Nintendo worry in adding in-voice communication on it next console,due to risk of creeps using this feature to attrack minors
Click to expand...
well, it woukd have to be the same on the original switch, per game basis. You know mario kart 9 has random voice chat in it? Through the app of course but still.
Aufhebung RPG said:
If Ninspider is related to Mobapad then the whole thing is even more interesting, Ninspider revealed the hardware details of the new host in that thread before Mobapad and Vandal's article, and if Mobapad is Ninspider I'm leaning towards a higher level of information credibility instead.
Click to expand...
It seems kinda useless now if no other separate party can debunk or support this claim. Also, the question I asked several days ago still stand (not to you aufhebung, but to everyone):

What was the purpose of coming here? Ninspider threw out a one word post and just bounced. Like why couldn't Ninspider just say it? Is this the place that discover magnet being used in the Switch?

It is also isn't hard to know that the Switch 1 was about to use magnets but it failed. I am not a magnet guy but don't some magnets get worn out after years? How is that more reliable?

This is a real question, I have external hard drives for My other consoles. Should I worry about the magnet interfering with them? Can the hall effect joystick interfere with the magnets "rail"?
 
Party Sklar said:
Question for the people who know more about hardware manufacturing than I do: is it common for a video game company to disclose details about their next system to accessories makers months before said system goes into production?
Click to expand...
Unless they want there to be no accessories from licensees anywhere near launch, what's the alternative? They need time to go through their own design, testing, manufacturing processes.
TamazonX said:
Mobapad are Switch accessory makers but they are not licensed by Nintendo, and they're out of China. If anyone was gonna leak info it does make a lot of sense to me it would be an unlicensed accessory maker.
Click to expand...
Can't decide whether it's more ballsy or stupid that they essentially put up a big story saying "Hi! We've been engaging in corporate espionage to start getting the necessary details to more quickly make products to compete with official Nintendo licensees, and we're ready to tell you some of what we found!"
 
Steve said:
he will most likely just talk about the latest rumours, but if he got some new information I’ll be pleasantly surprised.
Click to expand...
Yeah I expect nothing about the gimmick or the announcement date tbh. Will probably just be them mentioning the rumours, saying they heard similar things. An hour long version of Pyoro's tweet lowkey LOL (jk)
 
eye0h said:
Yeah I expect nothing about the gimmick or the announcement date tbh. Will probably just be them mentioning the rumours, saying they heard similar things. An hour long version of Pyoro's tweet lowkey LOL (jk)
Click to expand...
With that he’ll retract his statement/speculation of the joy-cons not being removable… well I think it was that guy from digital foundry that had the idea.
 
Steve said:
That’s actually a good question, I’m curious if it would keep cost down by a couple of buck's.

like if Nintendo were to remove them, their wouldn’t be much far cry since every day more and more companies are using Bluetooth instead.
Click to expand...
Aufhebung RPG said:
I will always hate the fact that Apple did away with the traditional headphone jack, leading to basically every phone brand doing the same.LMAO
Click to expand...
The Switch doesn't have the space limitations of an iPhone, nor the concerns about being dropped in water. Getting rid of it will require Nintendo beef up support for BT headphones which I imagine will cost more than the jack does.
 
oldpuck said:
The Switch doesn't have the space limitations of an iPhone, nor the concerns about being dropped in water. Getting rid of it will require Nintendo beef up support for BT headphones which I imagine will cost more than the jack does.
Click to expand...
I was hoping LC3 would have decently low latency for gaming, does anyone have experience with this?

Regardless, I certainly hope the headphone jack sticks around. It's so much more convenient to have more options, especially on devices that include children in their target audience.
 
0
eye0h said:
Did he say that for certain or was that just a discussion point?
Click to expand...
Just speculation about possibilities. A lot of the things he and MVG discuss on their show are speculation and/or things they think would be interesting.
 
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