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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

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Shareholder Chad said:
Fair. I enjoyed the steam controller but Nintendo will most likely take the cheaper method. Joy-cons are already packed and expensive. That said, Im willing to shell out extra cash and will be happy if they go that route.
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Trackpads would be welcome though I don't think the Joycon of all controllers would get the same benefits out of it. A key thing to point out about the trackpads was that they were made for explicit usage on PC as a replacement for the mouse that would be used in first person shooters. It made games like CS:GO, Team Fortress 2, MMOs and a large chunk of complex simulators work on controller for once. The Steam Deck also gets a lot of benefits out of them through the combination of gyro and "quick select" options through Steam's Control options, a lot of options that the Switch just doesn't need in the same way.

I will admit i'm curious about capacitive scrolling bumpers as they have a lot of potential in their own right, but trackpads themselves are just kinda unneeded.
 
Shareholder Chad said:
Fair. I enjoyed the steam controller but Nintendo will most likely take the cheaper method. Joy-cons are already packed and expensive. That said, Im willing to shell out extra cash and will be happy if they go that route.
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Huh? A capactive surface probably WOULD be the cheaper method nowadays - smaller, fewer materials, easier to engineer, far less mechanically complex.


Individual unit pricing COULD be cheaper for a school wheel, maybe, but when you account for all the additional support it needs inside and out, I don't see how that math works out in its favour. Consider how many appliances and devices have moved to capacitive input, they're not doing it out of the kindness of their heart.

A capactive strip used to scroll an in-game menu is what one might call... Lateral thinking with mature technology.
 
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SoldierDelta said:
Trackpads would be welcome though I don't think the Joycon of all controllers would get the same benefits out of it. A key thing to point out about the trackpads was that they were made for explicit usage on PC as a replacement for the mouse that would be used in first person shooters. It made games like CS:GO, Team Fortress 2, MMOs and a large chunk of complex simulators work on controller for once. The Steam Deck also gets a lot of benefits out of them through the combination of gyro and "quick select" options through Steam's Control options, a lot of options that the Switch just doesn't need in the same way.

I will admit i'm curious about haptic scrolling bumpers as they have a lot of potential in their own right, but trackpads themselves are just kinda unneeded.
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My "ideal" Joy-Con would probably have a capacitive pressure sensitive L/R and a pointing stick (a-la New Nintendo 3DS C-Stick). Pointing sticks are tiny, extremely cheap to manufacture, and give REALLY good pointer controls in a package not merely smaller than a trackpad, but as small or smaller than a face button. Also, a second stick for single Joy-Con play.
 
AshenMortality said:
I ve read that the Chinese leaker mentions that the upgrade to switch 2 will be a rather conservative one akin to a switch Pro….Do all the tech kids here share the same sentiment or it is just the leaker’s view?
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I think the general sentiment is something akin to the DS -> 3DS transition - no changes to the core design (clamshell dual screen), but improvements in other areas like the addition of the circle pad, glassless 3D, proper OS with a HOME button, etc., and of course the power increase.

Similarly, the Switch 2 would not change the core design (hybrid console with dettachable controllers and a dock), but has additions on top of it, which has been discussed to length here what those could be, and of course, the power increase. The recent discussion of magnets and the screen upgrade are examples of these "additions" I'm talking about, which the leak in question corroborates.

And IMO, that is a very smart move by Nintendo; they struck gold with the hybrid concept, which was very well accepted by the gaming community and casuals, found themselves in a very favorable position by partnering with Nvidia, who were scrambling for demand of their mobile chips, and arguably pioneered the handheld PC market we have today, so they can refer to all the solutions and ideas iterated by it since the Switch's launch to help design the new console.
 
ertaboy356b said:
Not necessarily, the button on the joycon can just mechanically push a switch where the rails is currently located.
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Leaver. Mechanically activating something the length of a joy con wakes a considerable amount of force. Don't underestimate that. I don't see it as an valid option. Especially from the joy con, making the leaver even harder.
 
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The additional button under the home button is interesting as it would remove the symmetry of the Joycons and having the same amount of buttons on each con.

I wonder if it’s something to do specifically with handheld mode.
 
Famicrono said:
I just hope magnet joycons are not the only innovation. I really want this console to be innovative.
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yohoopzcrazy said:
I think the general sentiment is something akin to the DS -> 3DS transition - no changes to the core design (clamshell dual screen), but improvements in other areas like the addition of the circle pad, glassless 3D, proper OS with a HOME button, etc., and of course the power increase.

Similarly, the Switch 2 would not change the core design (hybrid console with dettachable controllers and a dock), but has additions on top of it, which has been discussed to length here what those could be, and of course, the power increase. The recent discussion of magnets and the screen upgrade are examples of these "additions" I'm talking about, which the leak in question corroborates.

And IMO, that is a very smart move by Nintendo; they struck gold with the hybrid concept, which was very well accepted by the gaming community and casuals, found themselves in a very favorable position by partnering with Nvidia, who were scrambling for demand of their mobile chips, and arguably pioneered the handheld PC market we have today, so they can refer to all the solutions and ideas iterated by it since the Switch's launch to help design the new console.
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I think a general understanding has to be made that Nintendo's best efforts this generation have been from a purely "game" point of view, rather than anything to do with innovations in motion control game design, rumble and so on. We've seen this type of back and forth basically through the entirety of this generation. There are so many titles on Switch that are just great as games without needing to lean on gimmicks to get across their point. I mean, it's very obvious that the audience agrees also. This is easily Nintendo's most successful generation imo, not only in terms of sales but in terms of critical acclaim also. I'd like to see Nintendo keep up with the pursuit of making fun games that work by themselves.

An iterative console is actually something I'd prefer over innovative at this stage. I'd like to see Nintendo perfect what worked with the Switch 1 over trying to innovate and potentially break something that worked, and I think Nintendo agrees. Maybe with a Switch 3 or a brand new system series, Nintendo can branch out and try something a bit risky again, but I'm glad for them to stay where they are now and just experiment with what's great about a more powerful system.
 
Aether said:
The rotation mechanism is another mechanical part that is more complex then the current mechanical solution, having a mechanism that moves magnets on an axis length wise is also something that potentially needs service if it missaligns.
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"Rotation" doesn't necessarily mean physically. On an electromagnet, the polarization can be changed simply by changing the direction of the current through the coil.
 
redmutineer75 said:
"Rotation" doesn't necessarily mean physically. On an electromagnet, the polarization can be changed simply by changing the direction of the current through the coil.
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Class Action Lawsuit description: "The Joy-Cons of the system were suddenly shot away from it, clashing to the wall, leaving a hole in it."

Sorry, i couldn't resist. ^^
 
SoldierDelta said:
I think a general understanding has to be made that Nintendo's best efforts this generation have been from a purely "game" point of view, rather than anything to do with innovations in motion control game design, rumble and so on. We've seen this type of back and forth basically through the entirety of this generation. There are so many titles on Switch that are just great as games without needing to lean on gimmicks to get across their point. I mean, it's very obvious that the audience agrees also. This is easily Nintendo's most successful generation imo, not only in terms of sales but in terms of critical acclaim also. I'd like to see Nintendo keep up with the pursuit of making fun games that work by themselves.

An iterative console is actually something I'd prefer over innovative at this stage. I'd like to see Nintendo perfect what worked with the Switch 1 over trying to innovate and potentially break something that worked, and I think Nintendo agrees. Maybe with a Switch 3 or a brand new system series, Nintendo can branch out and try something a bit risky again, but I'm glad for them to stay where they are now and just experiment with what's great about a more powerful system.
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I think iterative can apply to improving the tech in motion and their rumble tech. Nintendo could also improve their IR camera.

Some great stuff came to being due to the already made improvements in Gyro tech from the Wii era, such as Arms, Labo, Ring Fit etc. It would be nice to have more games take advantage of further improvements into this generation.
 
redmutineer75 said:
"Rotation" doesn't necessarily mean physically. On an electromagnet, the polarization can be changed simply by changing the direction of the current through the coil.
Click to expand...
...but that was the solution for a permanent magnet to NOT need a electromagnet. Electromagnets need CONSTANT power, that's why the suggestion was to use permanent and change the allignment -> move them physically in rotation.

If you use electromagnets you just as well Skipp all that stuff and only have electromagnets, but then there's the problem what happens when the battery is drained.
 
zelda-mag.jpg
 
Concernt said:
One does not simply use an electropermanent magnet. Every option comes with its own engineering challenges. For instance, if the system and/or controllers run out of battery, should the magnets fail open, closed, or remain in the last state they were? How does that affect portability? If they fail open, the device falls apart in carrying cases, or can't be put together with the system dead.

There's bumps in this road no matter what. 😅
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Bonejack said:
Interviewer: "I see, your skills are amazing. Where did you study again?"
Interviewee: "Well, you see, i participated in the Famiboards Future Nintendo Hardware thread after all."
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There's a chance (and not that low) that this may be actually more reliable for someone's formation than some degrees out there.
 
Aether said:
...but that was the solution for a permanent magnet to NOT need a electromagnet. Electromagnets need CONSTANT power, that's why the suggestion was to use permanent and change the allignment -> move them physically in rotation.

If you use electromagnets you just as well Skipp all that stuff and only have electromagnets, but then there's the problem what happens when the battery is drained.
Click to expand...
The same principle applies to electropermanent magnets if you ensure that the magnetic impulse of the coil is enough to change the switchable "hard" magnets, but not enough to change the permanent magnet as a whole.
 
pelusilla6 said:
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That's ... Not an answer.

Snip ok I'm going on some research

Problem still stands: you need power to change the state, so how do you do that...when the power supply (battery) is dead?

There is a reason such mechanisms are rarely used: expensive and an engineering challenge.
 
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EdFiftyNine said:
The additional button under the home button is interesting as it would remove the symmetry of the Joycons and having the same amount of buttons on each con.

I wonder if it’s something to do specifically with handheld mode.
Click to expand...
Assuming that detail is true, then it would just mean it's a new function button, like screenshot or home. Those are already not "symmetrical" -- in terms of functionality -- when you divide up the controllers.
 
redmutineer75 said:
The same principle applies to electropermanent magnets if you ensure that the magnetic impulse of the coil is enough to change the switchable "hard" magnets, but not enough to change the permanent magnet as a whole.
Click to expand...
Ok, researched bit more...Kay, yeah, new developments , not clear when/how, and the name is also used for electromagnets in general, which is confusing.

From research it sounds like a rather expensive solution, that does still have the problem of the mechanical solution: change between states only possible when there is power.
 
Bonejack said:
Interviewer: "I see, your skills are amazing. Where did you study again?"
Interviewee: "Well, you see, i participated in the Famiboards Future Nintendo Hardware thread after all."
Click to expand...

11th_grade.png


I kid, but I love the information Ive learned about tech in this thread.
 
Aether said:
Ok, researched bit more...Kay, yeah, new developments , not clear when/how, and the name is also used for electromagnets in general, which is confusing.

From research it sounds like a rather expensive solution, that does still have the problem of the mechanical solution: change between states only possible when there is power.
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'My console is totally dead and there's no USB-C power source anywhere but I want to disconnect the JoyCons!' feels like such an edge case.
 
LiC said:
Assuming that detail is true, then it would just mean it's a new function button, like screenshot or home. Those are already not "symmetrical" -- in terms of functionality -- when you divide up the controllers.
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I don't think it's affecting the hardware due to where it is on the controller in addition to the fact that it's not on both controllers. A share button would be fine but it doesn't really make sense given sharing is already possible to do on Switch through Album (it's also on the right joycon that uses home, so why wouldn't they put it on the screenshot side). It's also unlikely to be a quick access menu because we already have one of those... on the home button. It could be for social activities like friends lists, but knowing Nintendo... come on really?
 
kvetcha said:
'My console is totally dead and there's no USB-C power source anywhere but I want to disconnect the JoyCons!' feels like such an edge case
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My console is broken and I can't disconnect, my battery is dead after playing tabletop and I can't connect the joy cons or especially on the go/train: let's play smash. Can you take your joy cons? No cannot, battery is dead.

But year, it for sure is an edge case. My "every edge case needs to be handled" developer mentality took over. May as well be that they decide it's fair (or that the solution actually is brute force and the support suggest praying it apart.
 
Aether said:
My console is broken and I can't disconnect, my battery is dead after playing tabletop and I can't connect the joy cons or especially on the go/train: let's play smash. Can you take your joy cons? No cannot, battery is dead.

But year, it for sure is an edge case. My "every edge case needs to be handled" developer mentality took over. May as well be that they decide it's fair (or that the solution actually is brute force and the support suggest praying it apart.
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The easiest solution would probably be one that's already been mentioned here: have the console maintain a battery reserve and go into hibernation rather than allowing the battery to be run down completely. It's better for battery health and it takes care of most of the situations you've described. The only time power would be an issue is if a console in hibernation was allowed to run down completely, say in storage.
 
kvetcha said:
The easiest solution would probably be one that's already been mentioned here: have the console maintain a battery reserve and go into hibernation rather than allowing the battery to be run down completely. It's better for battery health and it takes care of most of the situations you've described. The only time power would be an issue is if a console in hibernation was allowed to run down completely, say in storage.
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It does already, and it would work in most cases, but when it still keeps being unplugged it simply keeps draining. And the older it gets, the harder it is to keep it responsive at low charge.
 
Steve said:
How are we feeling about cartridges to look like.
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Exactly the same with a tiny change to the ridge and locking mechanism on the rear so it doesn't fit in the old slot. Maybe even the same with just a software lock.

I think tabs are a short sighted move in case they want to continue the line, changing the locking mechanism slightly uses less plastic and they don't have to deal with a literal "build up" of tabs in future generations.
 
Concernt said:
Exactly the same with a tiny change to the ridge and locking mechanism on the rear so it doesn't fit in the old slot. Maybe even the same with just a software lock.

I think tabs are a short sighted move in case they want to continue the line, changing the locking mechanism slightly uses less plastic and they don't have to deal with a literal "build up" of tabs in future generations.
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Maybe the tab can get longer each generation and eventually look like a Doug Dimmadome Owner of the Dimmsdale Dimmadome hat edit after a point.
 
Aether said:
It does already, and it would work in most cases, but when it still keeps being unplugged it simply keeps draining. And the older it gets, the harder it is to keep it responsive at low charge.
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Yes, but again, I feel like that's very much an edge case, and not a design dealbreaker. USB-C power is ubiquitous.
 
Bonejack said:
Interviewer: "I see, your skills are amazing. Where did you study again?"
Interviewee: "Well, you see, i participated in the Famiboards Future Nintendo Hardware thread after all."
Click to expand...

It works for DIY car wrenchers all the time. Bring your car over to Bob down the road, supply him with a 24-pack of his favorite beer, and he'll have your car on the road faster than you can say, "I just wanted my tires rotated, not the entire engine rebuilt."

But that's Bob for ya. You may not request the work, but damn it if he'll do the best fucking job you've ever seen.

And then there's Nintendo Bob, but we never talk about Nintendo Bob...
 
kvetcha said:
Yes, but again, I feel like that's very much an edge case, and not a design dealbreaker. USB-C power is ubiquitous.
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That's what I thought before reading here there and on Reddit about "don't use other chargers" "Nintendos implementation is non standard, it could fry your switch!" And stuff like that...

(Ironically it's mostly people from the us... Maybe they sell way more crap chargers in stores? I still have tons of quality ones...)

Yeah, you convinced me.
 
Random thought about the magnet side of successor joycon connections - if say the SL and SR buttons had some sort of small elbow bend / hook (/ loop), that the console edge / rail or whatever could interface with and securely hold position with whichever form of magnet works out best from an engineering perspective, could that potentially be enough from a structural integrity perspective to not end up as an expensive OHS hazard? I’d guess that the form factor (from size mainly) may make this unduly fiddly with micro-parts doing the work, but I’m no engineer so this practical problem’s not in my scope.
 
Aether said:
That's what I thought before reading here there and on Reddit about "don't use other chargers" "Nintendos implementation is non standard, it could fry your switch!" And stuff like that...

(Ironically it's mostly people from the us... Maybe they sell way more crap chargers in stores? I still have tons of quality ones...)

Yeah, you convinced me.
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I'm assuming (perhaps unwisely) that Switch Next will adhere to USB-C PD standards. Switch Classic decidedly did not.
 
SoldierDelta said:
I don't think it's affecting the hardware due to where it is on the controller in addition to the fact that it's not on both controllers. A share button would be fine but it doesn't really make sense given sharing is already possible to do on Switch through Album (it's also on the right joycon that uses home, so why wouldn't they put it on the screenshot side). It's also unlikely to be a quick access menu because we already have one of those... on the home button. It could be for social activities like friends lists, but knowing Nintendo... come on really?
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A social button would be cool, like opening up a small menu where you can invite friends over to your game. And maybe they won't have Voice Chat, but a normal chat function is still what I miss on current Switch. Miiverse on Wii U had such feature, which was cool. But expand it to also have group chats would be lovely aswell. As of Voice Chat, it's something that Nintendo implemented it via the phone app, but having it Directly into the controller, so no phone use would be so much better. Someone mentioned a mute button for the microphone, which is cool.

If it ain't a social button, I dunno what it could be. But ultimately, I really would like Nintendo to make a Stereoscopic 3D or VR headset, and with the press of that button, it connects and streams the gameplay to the headset.
But we haven't heard of something of any kind of headset, only that they showed a patent in late 2022.
 
Ephram said:
Nintendo should include some sort of "use Docked HQ settings for handheld mode" setting, which would make every Switch 1 game look better instantly when played in HH. This should be optional because you lose touch screen functionality in some games.
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Some games do not disable their touchscreen in docked mode actually 🙂

At least in Bowser’s Fury, you can “touch” the screen in docked mode in an emulator and everything still works like portable mode
 
ezidro3 said:
Some games do not disable their touchscreen in docked mode actually 🙂

At least in Bowser’s Fury, you can “touch” the screen in docked mode in an emulator and everything still works like portable mode
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For all we know it's all games. Impossible to test this without an emulator.

Would be cool if all games just ran in docked mode.
 
Supposing they really replaced the rails and that the new Joycons are wider, I wonder if they can just make the SR/SL bigger and non-flat, basically having a "joycon with strip" form factor as soon as you detach them.

Alongside the bigger screen and better-than-OG kickstand, not having to carry around strips nor do the extra setup would be a very nice improvement to tabletop mode and single joycon multiplayer. Keeping 4 joycons charged, in particular, is much more of a hassle than it needs to be if you want to use the strips for playing.

Concernt said:
Maybe even the same with just a software lock.
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That's my expectation too. The DS didn't have an OS which could be updated to detect and handle a 3DS card gracefully. They would either have some generic error about the software being incompatible or include in the 3DS game something which can be executed on the DS and show an error message.

Compared to a physical tab, a soft locks means:
  • They can explain properly why you can't play this game, rather than hoping people will read the manual or ask someone/google instead of just asking for a refund.
  • They have a chance to advertise the new system and what else it offers besides "it can play the game you bought"
  • They can gather analytics about how often and with which audiences this is happening
 
ezidro3 said:
Some games do not disable their touchscreen in docked mode actually 🙂

At least in Bowser’s Fury, you can “touch” the screen in docked mode in an emulator and everything still works like portable mode
Click to expand...
Hermii said:
For all we know it's all games. Impossible to test this without an emulator.

Would be cool if all games just ran in docked mode.
Click to expand...
Part of the reason for that could be that 3DW+BF already has a built-in touchscreen substitute where you move a cursor with gyro and press a button to tap, so they probably already had shared code paths for it that needed to be available in both handheld and docked. But yes, in general, nothing stops a game from accepting touch input in docked mode. It's the hardware/OS that stops reading touches when docked. And I think forcing docked mode would be a perfectly good solution in ~95% of cases, even if there are touch screen issues, since that's an auxiliary feature at best in most games.
 
Aether said:
I do hope we get it in some form, but if I need to click something in place, then I don't care for an initial alignment. It also opens up for "ups I forgot to lock it and now the switch fell" scenarios. Then it's no better then the rails. We'll see.
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It wouldn't have to be a manual lock. Switch 1 has a button for disconnecting, but you don't need to use it for it to connect to begin with.
Jenn. E Tails said:
That and half of the battery life
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Since we'd expect BC stuff to be among the lower end of battery cost to begin with, probably not a huge loss.
 
Scrawnton said:
I'm down for it only if we can apply one of the following personalities to it:

Navi
Midna
Captain Toad
Olimar
Rusty
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Master, I feel like the absence of Fi here was … 95% intentional…? (Tbh it’s kinda funny how the mode of your suggestions comes from LOZ)
 
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