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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

Maybe I should've said "to add to the possibility that magnets are the gimmick" before describing a gimmicky use of magnets. That said, if magnets are used to attach controllers, Nintendo definitely will not have invented that.
Invented is maybe the wrong word, but I expect that they engineered a clever implementation.

If I recall, magnets were considered for Switch 1, but they for whatever reasons they coudnt make it work back then. So obviously they solved the problems they had back then.
 
Why, because joy cons attach to the system? Like they do on the current Switch, which is not named attach? Just using different/ improved tech to achieve that.

Imo, it's absolutely ridiculous to seriously entertain Attach being the real name.
I don't think it's real because the source is so ridiculous but it should be real
 
I think had they been scroll shoulder buttons we would have heard with these leaks? I’m guessing the 2 new buttons will be mappable per game, can’t imagine they would be 2 new buttons that are used mainly.

That new button under the home one though, interesting, some kind of share button……what if……it’s a Miiverse button and it makes its triumphant return and this button allows you to go straight to a games Miiverse page to post.
 
if that is the hook it will be broader reaching than simply being the mechanism the joycons attach by. there has to be further options the magnet stuff could open up with gameplay/controllers.
I cant even think of how magnets would be used in gameplay. Sincerely doubt it's the hook. It's just an improved attachment mechanism imo.
 
The 4K image output thing is totally just something they can put on the box, right? Realistically most won't reach that.
The majority of indie games, cross-gen/Switch titles and I guess a few PS4-era titles at a stretch, but that's the most I'm expecting. There's going to be a lot of titles that'll just end up being 1440p or 1080p. I don't expect titles to go lower than that thanks to DLSS, but we'll have to see.
 
I cant even think of how magnets would be used in gameplay. Sincerely doubt it's the hook. It's just an improved attachment mechanism imo.
nor can I but that's for Nintendo to surprise people, i don't see such innovations as less likely because people on a forum haven't figured it out yet.
 
To add to the magnet gimmick, Nintendo is obviously no stranger to selling game-altering physical trinkets with Amiibo. But where the player only taps an Amiibo, what if you could attach magnetic coins (or like pogs for those of us who are old af) with similar Ambiibo-like NFC functionality that could modify the game while attached? Imagine like SMB Wonder where you choose a badge by swapping out a physical coin on your controller. Or imagine an OoT remake where you toggle the iron boots by adding or removing a coin to your controller. I'm not convinced either of these are better than choosing those things in the game's software UI, but it does smell like a pretty Nintendo thing to do. If it really does end up being called Switch Attach, this also fits the theme. It'd give them another set of physical collectible trinkets to sell while not necessarily requiring them (in the same way that Amiibo functionality is optional).
Amiibo are bad enough as is for features, a physical trinket to change in-game mechanics sounds horrific unless it's included in the box. They're not "optional" they're "content you pay extra for despite paying full price", they're DLC with a retail box.

This idea was absolutely possible with Nintendo Switch, accessories that attach to the Joy-Con Rail and just use it like a USB connection, but there's reasons it didn't happen there either. Compatibility, what if the connectors differ between revisions? This came to pass, Nintendo Switch Lite.

So why not Bluetooth? Well, we saw that with Poké Ball Plus. USB? Hori Drum Controller. WiFi? Mario Kart

I think they'll stick to using the controller connection points for controllers for this reasons, it gives them flexibility with future releases.

Are they going to replace the iconic switch logo and sound? Will the logo come together horizontally instead of vertically? These are important questions
Honestly I don't expect it to change, it looks close enough and it's iconic. Maybe accented as such; it "clicks" into place, bounces back up with a second click, for being the second generation, then the subtitle or supertitle coming in with a new colour or colours. Maybe that constitutes a significant change. I don't expect attaching the controllers to be entirely free of "sliding them into place", just like the Lenovo Legion Go has to.

And yes, really, if they choose "Super Nintendo Switch", the word "Super" is literally a "Supertitle".
 
We do get to look forward to what little thought Nintendo may have put into the magnets, but I think the core new gameplay is in the added buttons.
 
Switch 1 crossgen and very basic indies are your best bet. Everything else likely caps at 1440p (with dlss).
I doubt that. As has been pointed out, this system is closer to the current generation than Switch was to the 8th generation. Consider how many 1080p60 experiences happened on Switch anyway. Sure it isn't a MAJORITY of first party releases, but it's a number of them, and this system is even better equipped for 4K, especially after upscaling.

DLSS can apparently also be done concurrently with rendering the next frame, and may have a relatively low frame time cost depending on other factors, we don't know that part for certain. However, unless it's so slow it takes SEVERAL FRAMES to reach 4K, which I think is very unlikely, games with any portion of power left over have have reason to pick 4K as their output resolution, and let internal DRS bear some of the performance cost.
 
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Just had a thought for the new button under the home. I have no clue how the magnet system will work but that might be a button for "disengaging" the magnetization.
I just did say that apparently the buttons that contact the magnetic function are the disarm buttons that are on the switch now, and the added buttons should be brand new buttons
 
Just had a thought for the new button under the home. I have no clue how the magnet system will work but that might be a button for "disengaging" the magnetization.

Maybe it's just a friends menu button or an AI assistant (Like Siri)

AI could be the gimmick with an built-in voice assistant that you can use to launch games or ask for help in games
 
I doubt that. As has been pointed out, this system is closer to the current generation than Switch was to the 8th generation. Consider how many 1080p60 experienced happened on Switch anyway. Sure it isn't a MAJORITY of first party releases, but it's a number of them, and this system is even better equipped for 4K, especially after upscaling.

DLSS can apparently also be done concurrently with rendering the next frame, and may have a relatively low frame time cost depending on other factors, we don't know that part for certain. However, unless it's so slow it takes SEVERAL FRAMES to reach 4K, which I think is very unlikely, games with any portion of power left over have have reason to pick 4K as their output resolution, and let internal DRS bear some of the performance cost.
Well, you're already involving DLSS on there. This won't be doing native 1440p all that often with current releases unless said games fit within the cross gen/very low demanding sphere, hence "with DLSS". It's decently powerful, but not that powerful.
 
nor can I but that's for Nintendo to surprise people, i don't see such innovations as less likely because people on a forum haven't figured it out yet.
Even if this new magnet gameplay is the hook, why name the system after the attachment function? Attaching won't be the primary function of the magnets then.
 
Well, you're already involving DLSS on there. This won't be doing native 1440p all that often with current releases unless said games fit within the cross gen/very low demanding sphere, hence "with DLSS". It's decently powerful, but not that powerful.
...4K with DLSS does not need 1440p. That's practically DLAA.

It's not a case of "it's not powerful enough to do 4K, even with DLSS", that's just not true. It's like 1080p on Switch: it entirely depends on the game.
 
...4K with DLSS does not need 1440p.
Wait, you raised the target even further. I mean 1440p output resolution with DLSS, which in turn means something between 720p-1080p internally... I'd refrain from upscaled 4K output for the time being, we don't even know if it's possible considering the cost on "target hardware".
 
Why would they name the system after how the joy cons are attached?
I mean, the entire Switch branding is built around the Joy-Con click. I can argue for why you'd want to do this, but let me go on what seems like a tangent first.

But fundamentally we don't know what Nintendo's pitch for the generation is, and Nintendo is very good at building the whole product marketing around a clear pitch. To be clear I'm not talking about the pitch for the hardware. Nintendo doesn't sell hardware. They sell experiences, and the hardware is only part of it.

"Switch" told you right in the name what the core idea of the hardware is. But the "click" sound and the Joy-Con clicking in branding connects the most delightfully tactile part of the hardware to the experience of Switching. That click isn't just an iconic part of the hardware, it is the sound of hardware switching between modes.

The other part of the pitch was big, full fat, meaty, core gamer experiences. Not just on the go but from Nintendo. The name didn't just say "this hardware Switches" but also said "We've been making these couch co-op and casual experiences for a while, but this is a Switch". And also "have you gone to Microsoft and Sony for these kinds of games? Well, consider Switching."

The folks who think that Switch 2 is a terrible, sterile name (most loudly, but certainly not exclusively @Raccoon) and the folks who think it is the only name or the company will sink - I would just say that I think both are missing what Nintendo can and likely will do. Nintendo will almost certainly not just pitch this as a sequel to Switch, even if that's what the hardware is, because that doesn't mean Nintendo games will be sequels to their Switch versions. And Nintendo can pick Switch 2 and have that name reflect so much more than "joyless upgrade".

Let me pitch you a trailer for Nintendo's next hardware:

OPEN ON: woman, 30s, sitting on her couch, holding a video game controller in her hand

REVERSE SHOT: the television screen. MARIO is driving go-cart... behind him BOWSER shoots a cannon, the track destroys underneath Mario, reconfiguring the race permanently. This is our first shot of Mario Kart X.

SHOT ON: The door, enter a guy, boyfriend, home from work. He sits beside her.

SHOT ON: The controller, in her hand. She SPLITS IT IN HALF, the two Joy-Cons splitting seamlessly and effortlessly. She hands one half to the boyfriend.

SHOT ON: The game becomes split screen in an instant, and without restarting the game, the boyfriend is controlling Bowser.

LOGO: The Switch's iconic JoyCon logo splits in half and forms a roman numeral 2. Totally rad music plays

CUT TO: Teenager in an outdoor mall-like location. She's playing on an all metal gaming handheld. She looks up. Another teen with a skateboarder holds up her handheld. The first teenager glances down at her screen. It says "SKATEBOARDER WANTS TO PLAY!" Teen taps the screen "Share Splatoon 4"

SHOT ON: the two teenagers playing Splatoon 4 over local wifi connection. The shot pulls out as their two bodies align with the logo

LOGO: Switch II

CUT TO: Man playing sports game in beanbag chair. Friend enters shot from behind, and sits down beside him. Friend pulls out a Switch II controller.

REVERSE SHOT: The large screen television. We see Beanbag guy tap button on his controller. The TV says "Sign in as Beanbag?" on the left hand side. Friend taps his controller, a second window slides in on the right. "Sign in as BestFriend?" We see their teams load for Mario Mega Sluggers load in from the cloud automatically.

SIZZLE REEL: Woman on train, playing Mario Universe in single player. Man on couch playing Deathloop in an online match. Cut to woman losing that same match, but grinning, while she plays in handheld from a campground.

CUT TO: back to the couch and Mario Kart. Boyfriend has fallen asleep on the couch. Woman takes the half controller from him, and immediately locks it magnetically in place to the other half, and leans back to continue playing Mario Kart.

LOGO: Switch II

Now, I'm not saying any part of this is what we'll get or what Nintendo wants. But I think you can see how a wishlist of random features: Cartless mutliplayer from the DS, magnetic Joy-Cons, a more modern account system - can be connected with game design - drop in multiplayer - to create a cohesive system that emphasizes a single clear idea. "Make sharing your game as easy as sharing your chocolate bar."

And you can see how the name "Switch 2" becomes slightly cheeky, playful, saying two things at once. "Yes, it's more Switch, but also, it's a new kind of Switching. Switching from single player to multiplayer, seamlessly." And you can see how the name (written Switch II) and the logo (Two joy cons, splitting into pairs) and the branding (the sound of the 2-Cons snapping apart, the logo splitting into two parts) all connects the physical feel of the console to the gameplay experience that Nintendo wants to deliver.

Which comes back to Switch Attach. Nintendo probably doesn't want to name their console just after the Joy-Con rail. But if they could find a way to talk about the games they wanna make, and the OS features they've added by referencing the rail, then I think they might. "Attach" can mean a lot of things, after all
 
I think your placing way to high fate in concurrency.

Not saying there couldn't be some use, but it almost definitely can't 100% hide the frame time.
Since when was optimism negotiable?

I don't expect it to hide the frame time much at all, it adds a frame of delay, nothing is being hidden. That's if it needs to do it concurrently at all, which we certainly don't know.

Mind, my reply about input resolution's relationship to output resolution, where concurrency isn't the question at hand.
 
Amiibo are bad enough as is for features, a physical trinket to change in-game mechanics sounds horrific unless it's included in the box. They're not "optional" they're "content you pay extra for despite paying full price", they're DLC with a retail box.
I don't necessarily think what I described is a good idea. But it doesn't have to be DLC with a retail box (although it would probably be that too). It could also serve as a way to toggle the state of something using a physical mechanism instead of (or more likely, in addition to) an in-game software mechanism. In the example use cases I floated (swapping out physical trinkets to choose a different badge in SMB Wonder or adding or removing a physical trinket to put on or take off iron boots in OoT), the trinket is optional because it's a different (debatably easier or more intuitive) way to do something you can already do in the menu.

Most (all?) buttons on game controllers to this point are momentary - you take your finger off, and the button releases. Now that I think about it, it's weird that nobody seems to have explored positional switches (basically on/off switches) on game controllers. Momentary buttons are good to trigger discrete events (fire a gun, jump, etc). But positional switches are good for setting a state (put on armor, choose a weapon, activate some sort of buff, etc), and a magnetic trinket could act like a positional switch. But instead of just being off or on, it could be off or any number of other states depending on which trinket is attached.

Again I'm not necessarily arguing this is a good idea. At best, having to keep track of a bunch of necessarily small trinkets seems like a nightmare. But it's a gimmick that would be optional (probably you could still do most trinket-enabled things in a software menu), and it'd give Nintendo an opportunity to sell more collectible trinkets, and it'd fit right into a hypothetical magnet gimmick theme.
 
Wait, you raised the target even further. I mean 1440p output resolution with DLSS, which in turn means something between 720p-1080p internally... I'd refrain from upscaled 4K output for the time being, we don't even know if it's possible considering the cost on "target hardware".
Yes, we do. We don't strictly know if it's possible without concurrency at sixty frames per second. That's an awful lot of caveats to say "Doesn't do 4K". It MAY struggle to do 4K after upscaling at 60FPS. That's not a surprise.

But the fact is, Mariko can do 4K. It's bad at it, sure, but it can do it. Drake is simply put, an awful lot better.

Modern games struggle on PS5 sometimes, no surprise if third party titles do struggle with resolution on NG Switch.

But 4K CAPABLE? Capable of doing 4K after upscaling in plenty of games? NATIVE with some? Absolutely.
 
Cannot really get a node process confirmation without doing die shot analysis which can be expensive. However we can make estimates based on clock speed which should be easier to figure out

I agree, because we already know so much about t239 the clock speeds should tell us quite a bit.

I'm guessing we'll get clock speed either from game developers and the game they're making, from a leak or even from Nintendo themself.

Like the olny estimate we can go around would be the matrix demo, but that doesn't tell us much really... Whelp, we'll somehow hear something tomorrow.
I'm hoping so too, once upon a time Nintendo use to tell the CPU and GPU frequencies.
So here's hoping a developer tell us this information first.

I thought every insider said it’s coming in 2025. Why is 2024 a discussion?
I think hearing movement or conversations happening in the manufacturing space on possible hardware details pertaining to controllers this early would lead many to believe that mass production must be around the corner then.

1080p is not good news. Not many games will reach that level and they won't look good. 720p should have been much better, less burden on the processor, more games to be native res and save on the battery life. It's difficult to tell 1080p from 720p on mobile devices anyway.

They must feel confident enough in the hardware specs to take advantage of a 1080p display and or just believe these will be easier and cheaper to source for the next 6-7 years.

Why would they name the system after how the joy cons are attached?
I agree with you and feel that people are over thinking the Switch name possibly changing.
The system is named the Switch because of going from home console to mobile device on the fly.
As long as this remains the primary functionality of the new Switch, then it should just stick with that name...
 
Let me pitch you a trailer for Nintendo's next hardware:
Nintendo's marketing teams:
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Yes, we do. We don't strictly know if it's possible without concurrency at sixty frames per second. That's an awful lot of caveats to say "Doesn't do 4K". It MAY struggle to do 4K after upscaling at 60FPS. That's not a surprise.

But the fact is, Mariko can do 4K. It's bad at it, sure, but it can do it. Drake is simply put, an awful lot better.

Modern games struggle on PS5 sometimes, no surprise if third party titles do struggle with resolution on NG Switch.

But 4K CAPABLE? Capable of doing 4K after upscaling in plenty of games? NATIVE with some? Absolutely.
Concurrency can only help so much is the thing, (superclocked) Mariko does 4K with Switch titles and often caps out at 1440p with some others... Using it as an example is stretching stuff thin, as I'm aware that does confirm Drake will be able to render native 4K with switch 1 specced titles and everything that goes with it, but modern and even last gen titles are a completely different history. Let's be careful with the resolutions claims, this is still a 3.4 TFLOPs device with reduced memory bandwidth and expectations need to be tempered.
 
Since when was optimism negotiable?

I don't expect it to hide the frame time much at all, it adds a frame of delay, nothing is being hidden. That's if it needs to do it concurrently at all, which we certainly don't know.

Mind, my reply about input resolution's relationship to output resolution, where concurrency isn't the question at hand.
Apologize l, misread your post.

I just asssumed you meant concurrency, because the frame time cost of 4k dlss will likely be to high to be practical otherwise.
 
Let's be careful with the resolutions claims, this is still a 3.4 TFLOPs device with reduced memory bandwidth and expectations need to be tempered.
Pessimistic is not the same thing as realistic, and games exist outside of the realm of "pushes PS5 to its knees".
 
Let me pitch you a trailer for Nintendo's next hardware:

OPEN ON: woman, 30s, sitting on her couch, holding a video game controller in her hand

REVERSE SHOT: the television screen. MARIO is driving go-cart... behind him BOWSER shoots a cannon, the track destroys underneath Mario, reconfiguring the race permanently. This is our first shot of Mario Kart X.

SHOT ON: The door, enter a guy, boyfriend, home from work. He sits beside her.

SHOT ON: The controller, in her hand. She SPLITS IT IN HALF, the two Joy-Cons splitting seamlessly and effortlessly. She hands one half to the boyfriend.

SHOT ON: The game becomes split screen in an instant, and without restarting the game, the boyfriend is controlling Bowser.

LOGO: The Switch's iconic JoyCon logo splits in half and forms a roman numeral 2. Totally rad music plays

CUT TO: Teenager in an outdoor mall-like location. She's playing on an all metal gaming handheld. She looks up. Another teen with a skateboarder holds up her handheld. The first teenager glances down at her screen. It says "SKATEBOARDER WANTS TO PLAY!" Teen taps the screen "Share Splatoon 4"

SHOT ON: the two teenagers playing Splatoon 4 over local wifi connection. The shot pulls out as their two bodies align with the logo

LOGO: Switch II

CUT TO: Man playing sports game in beanbag chair. Friend enters shot from behind, and sits down beside him. Friend pulls out a Switch II controller.

REVERSE SHOT: The large screen television. We see Beanbag guy tap button on his controller. The TV says "Sign in as Beanbag?" on the left hand side. Friend taps his controller, a second window slides in on the right. "Sign in as BestFriend?" We see their teams load for Mario Mega Sluggers load in from the cloud automatically.

SIZZLE REEL: Woman on train, playing Mario Universe in single player. Man on couch playing Deathloop in an online match. Cut to woman losing that same match, but grinning, while she plays in handheld from a campground.

CUT TO: back to the couch and Mario Kart. Boyfriend has fallen asleep on the couch. Woman takes the half controller from him, and immediately locks it magnetically in place to the other half, and leans back to continue playing Mario Kart.

LOGO: Switch II
good visualization, i could really see that trailer. when i think of the magcons logo, instead of the up down click of the joycons, its the magcons clicking together
 
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Overestimating dlss is no more brilliant than underestimating dlss.Even DF's tests warned several times that the frame time cost of 4k is expensive for games with larger specs, I don't doubt that 4k resolution games will exist, but most games are still safest at 1440p with dlss added.
 
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