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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

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omniryu said:
Idk, whatever it is. I want no parts with the cloud.
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Do you use a computer or a phone? You're doing cloud things. All the cloud is is somebody else's computer. If you have two computers, try using steam link to play a game on one computer, but from another computer. The idea is the same, just the distance is different.
 
Lancelot said:
Cloud will never happen if cost cutting is what they're looking for, all the opposite. It'll destroy the little profits they're having at the moment... Just look at the streaming landscape and how much money those platforms keep bleeding after decades of existing, or just Gamepass even.
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What's even worse is that all the gaming subscriptions can't even beat Netflix and Disney combine.
Steve said:
If it means for better graphics and development cost, most likely.
I think we have reached a point with realism in games, that it's no longer unique. not saying it look bad, but that it'll become outdated real quick. I think horizon zero dawn is a good example
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I can't imagine a datacenter full of RTX 4090 and I9 Intel card where it is over 200w. Just for 80 million subscribers.
 
bmfrosty said:
Do you use a computer or a phone? You're doing cloud things. All the cloud is is somebody else's computer. If you have two computers, try using steam link to play a game on one computer, but from another computer. The idea is the same, just the distance is different.
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I really try my best not use any cloud service the best I can. Don't get me wrong. I studied to use Salesforce platform. So I know. But for me personally. I am stuck in my old ways.
Lancelot said:
Cloud will never happen if cost cutting is what they're looking for, all the opposite. It'll destroy the little profits they're having at the moment... Just look at the streaming landscape and how much money those platforms keep bleeding after decades of existing, or just Gamepass even.
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Yeah, that's what I am thinking now. Not too mention how games and TV shows and movies are consumed are totally different. Then we will have a gaming streaming wars.
 
omniryu said:
What's even worse is that all the gaming subscriptions can't even beat Netflix and Disney combine.

I can't imagine a datacenter full of RTX 4090 and I9 Intel card where it is over 200w. Just for 80 million subscribers.
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Just think of it as simultaneous players. Also think of it as putting hardware in standby when it's not in use and also make it regional. Also think about it as amortized over years.

omniryu said:
I really try my best not use any cloud service the best I can. Don't get me wrong. I studied to use Salesforce platform. So I know. But for me personally. I am stuck in my old ways.
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Do you think that famiboards rents or owns a server in a datacenter, or uses one or more cloud instances?
I don't know the answer.
 
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omniryu said:
What's even worse is that all the gaming subscriptions can't even beat Netflix and Disney combine.
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All that and they aren't even growing since a real while. PS Plus, Live, Nintendo Online, Geforce... All of them are in a rut, how could this possibly be a replacement to the traditional model? It doesn't make any sense, and advocating for this doesn't make any sense financially either.
 
Doctre81 said:
They announced it for Gamecube Wii and WiiU though
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I think the last time Nintendo directly revealed which process node was revealed was with the GameCube. Technically, IBM was the one who revealed the process node used for the Wii and the Wii U, not Nintendo. (Although IBM's press releases included comments from some people at Nintendo, but not with respect to the process node used.)

But I was talking about with respect to devkits, not in terms of public announcements. And the GameCube Architecture Guide and the documents written and provided by Nintendo for Wii devkits don't make any mention of process node. (I couldn't find official documents for Wii U devkits currently.)
 
bmfrosty said:
There's an interesting thought here for me that if the big new thing for the Switch 2 is that it's the big tech update that gets 4K and a bunch of third party games that have been absent because of porting issues, then why not talk about the specs? Talk about RAM and graphics capabilities and talk about it all being in a hand held form factor.
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Because specs mean nothing outside of fueling biased talks and non-knowledgeable conversations about the hardware. All Nintendo has to do is show the games and the games themselves will present the case for the tech leap. Experiences matter a lot more than paper specs.
 
Ghostsonplanets said:
Because specs mean nothing outside of fueling biased talks and non-knowledgeable conversations about the hardware. All Nintendo has to do is show the games and the games themselves will present the case for the tech leap. Experiences matter a lot more than paper specs.
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My 200W console that weighs 10lb can produce better graphics than my 15W tablet? Maybe even not Nintendo talking about it, but NVidia and a host of 3rd parties that are excited to be there?
 
Lancelot said:
All that and they aren't even growing since a real while. PS Plus, Live, Nintendo Online, Geforce... All of them are in a rut, how could this possibly be a replacement to the traditional model? It doesn't make any sense, and advocating for this doesn't make any sense financially either.
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This gaming crash needs to come sooner.
 
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I expect (and hope) that the attitude towards cloud gaming in the future will be similar to that of the current attitude towards generative AI. It is not a good thing and it should not be celebrated or defended.
 
Individualised said:
I expect (and hope) that the attitude towards cloud gaming in the future will be similar to that of the current attitude towards generative AI. It is not a good thing and it should not be celebrated or defended.
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The problem is that once you can offload compute in that way, it becomes an inevitability. Especially for games with $200,000,000 budgets where publishers fear pirates so much that they install denuvo and anti-cheat on everything.

There are definitely nightmarish things about it, but it's better to be prepared for it to happen than to wish that it won't.
 
Individualised said:
I expect (and hope) that the attitude towards cloud gaming in the future will be similar to that of the current attitude towards generative AI. It is not a good thing and it should not be celebrated or defended.
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"Cloud gaming is a bad gaming experience" is a take I get. "Cloud gaming is a moral bad that must be stopped at all costs, and even defending it is a moral bad" is beyond me.

Cloud gaming covers hundreds of technologies, many of which I'm fairly certain you don't object to. Can I ask what you mean by cloud gaming, and why you believe it to be an unredeemable moral evil?
 
Hearing a reveal timing rumor in tech circles that doesn't seem to have come up on the internet anywhere? It might be spontaneously occurring horseshit, but is there something going around the YouTube/Clickbait-sphere that I might have missed?
 
oldpuck said:
Hearing a reveal timing rumor in tech circles that doesn't seem to have come up on the internet anywhere? It might be spontaneously occurring horseshit, but is there something going around the YouTube/Clickbait-sphere that I might have missed?
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What’s the timing? All I’d seen was Brazil’s update that he’s heard of a Direct in April and a hardware reveal in May June.

Nate has yet to comment on new timings; He only said he’s looking into any impacts the delay to 2025 has had on the reveal timing.
 
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karmitt said:
What’s the timing? All I’d seen was Brazil’s update that he’s heard of a Direct in April and a hardware reveal in May.

Nate has yet to comment on new timings; He only said he’s looking into any impacts the delay to 2025 has had on the reveal timing.
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If I hear anything that comes from someone that might actually know something, and that it isn't just extremely game of telephoned, I'll share it. I don't want to create a rumor while also trying to confirm a rumor. Just wanted to make sure I hadn't missed something already in the ether.
 
karmitt said:
What’s the timing? All I’d seen was Brazil’s update that he’s heard of a Direct in April and a hardware reveal in May.

Nate has yet to comment on new timings; He only said he’s looking into any impacts the delay to 2025 has had on the reveal timing.
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hardware reveal in may?(unless is a PR for Nintendo stating the next generation of Nintendo console launch in Q1 2025, or codename launch in 2025, we will update about the future of Nintendo later
 
Giancarlo said:
hardware reveal in may?(unless is a PR for Nintendo stating the next generation of Nintendo console launch in Q1 2025, or codename launch in 2025, we will update about the future of Nintendo later
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I just checked - they said June not May. Updated.

famiboards.com

Nintendo Direct Speculation |ST7| It’s Showtime People! Famiboards Productions Proudly Presents: What Lies Beyond The Door? Act II - Rebirth

Wait did Pyroro just shoot down Endless Ocean? ☹️ Oh well least my disappointment is now instead of Wednesday. I may still be scared of the ocean but I still wanted it announced.
famiboards.com famiboards.com
 
karmitt said:
What’s the timing? All I’d seen was Brazil’s update that he’s heard of a Direct in April and a hardware reveal in May.

Nate has yet to comment on new timings; He only said he’s looking into any impacts the delay to 2025 has had on the reveal timing.
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Unless Brazil followed up with more recent rumors, he mentioned General Direct in April, with IndieWorld before that (maybe March).

Hardware reveal June.

He did clearly state things can change.

Edit: Sorry, just saw your reply, after I posted.
 
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Could we possibly see any leaks come from AAA developers making their games for the Switch 2 at the GDC? That might clear up some of the negative atmosphere going around the past few weeks.
 
Steve said:
Would y,all either prefer a chunky switch 2 something akin to the steam deck or something that’s familiar to the current model.
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Something similar to the OLED model
Dimensio said:
Nate said this on the reveal timing:
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I think they might just mention that they're releasing a new console by next march then we won't see it till june or worse...
 
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seyfeselassie said:
Could we possibly see any leaks come from AAA developers making their games for the Switch 2 at the GDC? That might clear up some of the negative atmosphere going around the past few weeks
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Theirs a high possibility of developers gossiping which games their currently developing for the switch 2

Also I wouldn’t say there’s negative atmosphere, more like stressful. I mean the forum for the NX was in my opinion the absolute bottom I ever seen a community be in with the WII U. Overall I think 80% of people discussing the switch 2 are excited especially since they won’t change the hybrid style of the switch and also the inclusion of ray tracing and DLSS and the first 4K Nintendo system is extremely exciting to think about.

Lastly the best way to the switch 2 to succeed is having a banger line ups of exclusives something akin to Botw and Mario odyssey.

Overall Nintendo are currently the best they have ever been historically and are also the video game company with the highest profit margin.

The only way I can see them screw up would be that they just decided to create a brand new system that’s isn’t a hybrid (which is 0% because of all the leaks and rumor of it still having the same concept of the switch)
 
bmfrosty said:
My 200W console that weighs 10lb can produce better graphics than my 15W tablet? Maybe even not Nintendo talking about it, but NVidia and a host of 3rd parties that are excited to be there?
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they'll talk about how good the tech is and how it allows them to work with other versions. but tech discussion isn't a selling point all that much
 
oldpuck said:
8nm is going to be around a long time, by design. Why is a little complicated, but the short answer is just that no, foundries don't want to move on to newer nodes rapidly, and neither do many of their customers.

Not all sections of a chip benefit equally - or even at all - from node improvements. If your chip size is dominated by something that doesn't improve well with a node shrink, the advantage of moving on is small, but the cost is high.

Plenty of chip customers don't need semi-annual redesigns. For example, the WiFi/BlueTooth chip in the Switch. It's power draw isn't dominated by the chip, but by the Wifi signal itself, so there aren't significant power savings by moving on. There isn't a new major WiFi standard every year, and what minor changes occur can be handled with new firmware.

Nowadays, new nodes aren't just smaller versions of the previous node, but new tech. That means customers need to redesign their chips to move to the newest node, and the setup cost for a new node is much higher.

And because it's new tech, it takes longer and longer for nodes to get really mature. Yields go up, power efficiency tends to improve. And there are opportunities for "half nodes." Half-nodes being pure backwards compatible shrinks of an existing node, that don't require significant redesigns or new tech.

So plenty of customers don't want to move on, foundries would love to squeeze as much money out of their existing investment as possible, and there is a long tail of small improvements that let foundries push margins up and costs down.

8nm is technically a "half node" - it's a shrunk down 10nm class node. At the time, it was competing against TSMC's 7nm, a "true" next-gen node. 10nm class nodes were built around Deep Ultra Violet, or DUV, lithography. 7nm class nodes were set to use the successor, Extreme Ultra Violet (EUV) lithography. At the time, EUV machines were extremely rare (there were like, 4 of them, and TSMC owned 3), cost more to run (they require 10x the electricity), and they also required chip designers to rebuild their chips entirely.

Samsung decided to position their 8nm node as the long term DUV node. As long as there are customers with DUV designs, SEC8 will be the best node available to you. Right now, that positioning might not be looking great, which is why Samsung is incentivized to offer great deals.
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Huh interesting! Didn't realize this. Guess that actually means we have more reason not to completely rule it out.
 
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I still expect Nintendo to say something when the next FY outlook goes out in March/April. it preempts the questions they'll get at the meeting in May
 
I'm going to get beat up for this (I'll know who to put on ignore!), but what are the drivers for a Switch 2?

I've only got a couple of thoughts.

1. Excited game nerds (us!).
2. Big third parties that make games that just won't fit on OG Switch.
3. Maybe Zelda and Xeno? I don't know of any other Switch exclusives from Nintendo that really pushed the hardware.

I suppose there's the idea of Switch gamers seeing Playstation and Xbox games and going ooh shiny and wanting to abandon their Switches in droves, but that hasn't happened in the 7 years the Switch has been around.

Is the market for video game consoles significantly bigger than the ~156,000,000 that we top out at every so often?
 
bmfrosty said:
I'm going to get beat up for this (I'll know who to put on ignore!), but what are the drivers for a Switch 2?
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What do you mean, drivers? Drivers of what?

The biggest driver of a new Switch’s existence is Nintendo, who is running out of people to sell hardware to.
 
So MLID is back again and he is doubling down on his Switch 2 will be 8nm information in his live-stream...
He also reiterated that his sources told him that there was a 5nm version but Nintendo still went with the 8nm Samsung production.

He even goes on to claim (much similar to our specs here) that Nvidia are able to achieve better than Steamdeck performance in handheld (by 20-30% no less @ 500-800MHz GPU clock) and he's expecting 3-4TFlops docked 900Mhz-1.3Ghz GPU clock(on 8nm).

He talks about the CPU only being comparable to XboxOne X(Lol) and that this new Switch will be able to achieve these handheld performances for the low price of 5-8w... Please tell me what kind of Blackmagic has Nvidia and Samsung figured out since the Ampere cards?

Switch 2 stuff is closer to the beginning of his stream.
 
bmfrosty said:
I'm going to get beat up for this (I'll know who to put on ignore!), but what are the drivers for a Switch 2?

I've only got a couple of thoughts.

1. Excited game nerds (us!).
2. Big third parties that make games that just won't fit on OG Switch.
3. Maybe Zelda and Xeno? I don't know of any other Switch exclusives from Nintendo that really pushed the hardware.

I suppose there's the idea of Switch gamers seeing Playstation and Xbox games and going ooh shiny and wanting to abandon their Switches in droves, but that hasn't happened in the 7 years the Switch has been around.

Is the market for video game consoles significantly bigger than the ~156,000,000 that we top out at every so often?
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4. A generation and a half worth of a power increase, enough to make everything we've seen on the Switch to date look and feel ancient. Pretty much every Nintendo game has pushed the hardware to unhealthy levels (with those that haven't being Wii U ports), resolutions and framerates generally sucked as well as basically everything else. Again, one can't understimate the jump taking place here and no other publisher can benefit from it as much as Nintendo, because of the circumstances they put themselves into for over a decade.
 
NineTailSage said:
So MLID is back again and he is doubling down on his Switch 2 will be 8nm information in his live-stream...
He also reiterated that his sources told him that there was a 5nm version but Nintendo still went with the 8nm Samsung production.

He even goes on to claim (much similar to our specs here) that Nvidia are able to achieve better than Steamdeck performance in handheld (by 20-30% no less @ 500-800MHz GPU clock) and he's expecting 3-4TFlops docked 900Mhz-1.3Ghz GPU clock(on 8nm).

He talks about the CPU only being comparable to XboxOne X(Lol) and that this new Switch will be able to achieve these handheld performances for the low price of 5-8w... Please tell me what kind of Blackmagic has Nvidia and Samsung figured out since the Ampere cards?

Switch 2 stuff is closer to the beginning of his stream.
Click to expand...

I saw his livestream but I decided just to watch a different world instead. A 5nm switch?
 
Steve said:
Would y,all either prefer a chunky switch 2 something akin to the steam deck or something that’s familiar to the current model.
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I want 8" for the screen, so something bigger than the OLED model is necessary anyway. I really don't care that much for the size of it, just the ergonomics that I hope will be leagues better than what I got with the current model (which I can only use as a handheld with 3rd party controllers that, in the end, make it to be almost as big as a Steam Deck)
 
Procheno said:
Pick one:

16gigs Ram
64gigs storage
8nm

10gigs ram
1TB storage
8nm

8gigs ram
256gigs storage
4nm
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16gigs.

Even if it's "overkill" for a tablet, I can easily eat that for the cost of the fastest SD card the kit can support and while 4nm could be sweet, 8gigs is fish food these days.
 
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omniryu said:
Idk, whatever it is. I want no parts with the cloud.
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As far as current infrastructure goes, the only thing the cloud is reliable for is account-dependent saves.
Anything beyond that is a pipe dream if you don't live in a Googleville-type metropolitan area where the fiber optic flows like water.
 
KeijiKG said:
As far as current infrastructure goes, the only thing the cloud is reliable for is account-dependent saves.
Anything beyond that is a pipe dream if you don't live in a Googleville-type metropolitan area where the fiber optic flows like water.
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I live within a (literal) stone's throw from a major exchange and get fibre to the home, and I can tell ya, Google Stadia FELT like native. It genuinely was good enough for rhythm games, it was AMAZING.

A lot of this was software and Google's data centres, Stadia being well designed, because over the same connection, Xbox Cloud Gaming has a screen tearing issue at the best of times.

For Nintendo, I think the cloud approach will be more novel, more distributed. Less the whole game running on one side and more like a bit of both. We've seen this in online games forever, but some good Nintendo examples are Splatoon 3, which has stores, menus, (some small) textures, etc. all rely on the network, ergo the cloud, and FZ99 which basically does the whole thing server side with users merely interfacing.

It's unclear if F-Zero 99 could even run entirely natively with 99 humans, it depends on the cloud to keep track of 99 individual players in a way a Nintendo Switch host (which also has to run a client for its user) on a huge LAN network probably just couldn't.
 
NineTailSage said:
So MLID is back again and he is doubling down on his Switch 2 will be 8nm information in his live-stream...
He also reiterated that his sources told him that there was a 5nm version but Nintendo still went with the 8nm Samsung production.

He even goes on to claim (much similar to our specs here) that Nvidia are able to achieve better than Steamdeck performance in handheld (by 20-30% no less @ 500-800MHz GPU clock) and he's expecting 3-4TFlops docked 900Mhz-1.3Ghz GPU clock(on 8nm).

He talks about the CPU only being comparable to XboxOne X(Lol) and that this new Switch will be able to achieve these handheld performances for the low price of 5-8w... Please tell me what kind of Blackmagic has Nvidia and Samsung figured out since the Ampere cards?

Switch 2 stuff is closer to the beginning of his stream.
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For someone who’s not smart with technology is this fantastic or mid. Since it’ll still be using 8nm

Might it be a modified 8nm?
 
Steve said:
For someone who’s not smart with technology is this fantastic or mid. Since it’ll still be using 8nm

Might it be a modified 8nm?
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Not sure how much "modified" can help us out here if it's 8nm.

8nm isn't end of the world - it's just that 8nm seems kinda iffy if T239 has 12SMs. 8nm would make the device bigger, and work harder to keep itself cool. Bigger power drain overall, etc.

If you haven't had a chance, read Thraktor's excellent writeup on why TSMC 4N makes a lot more sense than SEC8N.
 
I have a question to ask. I posted on gamefaqs, but here it is:

Let's read this:



As used in this subsection —

(A) to “circumvent a technological measure” means to descramble a scrambled work, to decrypt an encrypted work, or otherwise to avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or impair a technological measure, without the authority of the copyright owner; and
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I never used Yuzu but does this make sense:

Yuzu although doesn't comes with any keys. It still uses those keys to execute the encryption with those keys? It sounds like you can frame it as encryption as an action and not a part they need like the keys as the focal point.

Would that be something Nintendo can claim and what would there chances Would be?
 
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