Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
Thank you for the context, I was being careful since you indicated in your original sharing of that slide that the value may have changed.
I wouldn't rule out 0 GB of RAM though.
You are overestimating the Steam Deck.
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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)
- Thread starter Dakhil
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I wouldn't rule out 0 GB of RAM though.
sure. it's always great to have stupidly high bandwidth memory. but it would be very expensive. dram scaling pretty much stopped
Individualised
Bob-omb
Nate believes that the system will be overall stronger than Steam Deck, though a direct comparison cannot be made due to how wildly different the hardware designs are.
If the overall performance falls short of Steam Deck though then Nintendo are doing something wrong. There's simply not a chance, and you're either underestimating the Switch 2 or overestimating the Steam Deck.
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Graphically, pretty much, unless things like ray tracing really do push it beyond. CPU though, far faster.
Dark Cloud
Warpstar Knight
As long as you don’t forget Dark Cloud exists we’re good.
I will gladly eat up a serving of crow, I just have a feeling it won't stack up against these other handhelds in ways we want it to.
Individualised
Bob-omb
What is "the ways we want it to" in your view, and why do you feel that way?
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
Regarding the Steam Deck, keep in mind nothing is preventing you from running all settings at full blast and shredding your battery life. So yeah - super duper high settings and framerate for 90 minutes, yay.
When equalizing battery life I would expect Switch 2 to outperform. Switch 2 will be very efficient in comparison to how inefficient the Deck is, with its x86 architecture and compatibility layers. Though with the Deck OLED having a larger battery - maybe that will bring it closer? Even then you'd be comparing a ~$400 handheld with a $550 one.
And in docked mode - again, keep in mind Steam Deck targets 800p, that's where it shines. Try to raise those resolutions on an external display and you will run into issues with newer games. I can't even hit 1080p 30 on Elden Ring. I have been using FSR1 or 2 as much as possible. I don't think this will hold up compared to a console with DLSS that devs can specifically program native ports for.
When equalizing battery life I would expect Switch 2 to outperform. Switch 2 will be very efficient in comparison to how inefficient the Deck is, with its x86 architecture and compatibility layers. Though with the Deck OLED having a larger battery - maybe that will bring it closer? Even then you'd be comparing a ~$400 handheld with a $550 one.
And in docked mode - again, keep in mind Steam Deck targets 800p, that's where it shines. Try to raise those resolutions on an external display and you will run into issues with newer games. I can't even hit 1080p 30 on Elden Ring. I have been using FSR1 or 2 as much as possible. I don't think this will hold up compared to a console with DLSS that devs can specifically program native ports for.
Let me preface this by saying I was not in deep with tech analysis and hardware talks with other systems, but I did participate in forum hype cycles for every launch since Wii onwards. But when I mean "ways we want it to be" I mean powerful enough to receive PS5/XSX downports without devs questioning the effort needed behind it. No bottlenecks that hold back something like MHWilds being a sure thing, or games like Witcher 4. We need a fully modern device with powerful wifi (wifi 6 is the current hotness right?) or something where I can at least get a strong stable 100+mbps wifi connection. We need the magic DLSS sauce to give us great hi res gaming with minimal side effects. We need a batter life no worse than the OG Switch in 2017. It is still a handheld so I would expect it needs to be smaller and more portable than a Steam Deck. Etc. Etc.
I just feel like with everything everyone wants in this system, something has to give if Nintendo is going to sell a profitable mass market $400 - $450 device.
I feel this way because I feel like every time Nintendo has released a system, we have gone through the hype cycle of what it will be capable of and when the system actually releases the other shoe drops and we have to dial back our expectations and understanding of how powerful the system actually is and what it is really capable of. The reality sets it. This obviously happened with Wii, it happened with Wii U, 3DS was a great upgrade over DS but was a massive step down fro Vita in regards to power, and I remember Switch speculation before launch people were hyped for an Xbox One like device and we had to dial that one back big time. I just feel like we are walking into the same exact situation yet again.
Nintendo kinda did something similar in the past: they released the Gameboy Advance then a couple years after it released the DS.
Meelow
Koopa
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Just for you Dark Cloud back at E3 2019 I was hanging out with Level 5 employee and I told them we needed a Dark Cloud 3.
they laughed 
AxkilAvenger
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Yup fully aware of the leak. I've been paying attention everyday since rumours of switch 2/pro started years ago.
And i pride myself on being an optimistically glass half full type,
But until Nintendo themselves officially show the console shouldn't a bit skepticism be warranted when it comes to what it can actually do?
Individualised
Bob-omb
Not even nearly as much information about any of those systems was leaked pre-release than has been with the Switch 2.
Steam Deck is already $400 so with Nintendo economy of scale and technology improvement. They gonna need to find stuff to add at this rate to hit $400 price point
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omniryu
Bob-omb
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I guess we really won't know what Nintendo will go for. I do know whatever comes out reflect on what lesson Nintendo learned or valued.
If Nintendo goes with 16, I guess that means they value third party more. 8 seems they probably heard the devs that asked for more but don't care wants people to work with it or don't.
But my thing is if Nintendo made their devkits for the Switch cheapest aside from Xbox one, almost ever. It shows they want everyone aboard. So doesn't that mean they value third party devs?
Also, what about the performance hiccup on their first party games, and I am including pokemon. Wouldn't a push for more ram help them or would they run themselves into a corner again?
What good does lateral thinking with withered technology do if it hinders you?
I think the new leads in Nintendo wants third party. Idk if this also matter but I see no one brings up Xbox lack of performance during the 8th gen era. Could Nintendo see this and be confident they can fill some of that role where Xbox is missing with third party?
If Nintendo goes with 16, I guess that means they value third party more. 8 seems they probably heard the devs that asked for more but don't care wants people to work with it or don't.
But my thing is if Nintendo made their devkits for the Switch cheapest aside from Xbox one, almost ever. It shows they want everyone aboard. So doesn't that mean they value third party devs?
Also, what about the performance hiccup on their first party games, and I am including pokemon. Wouldn't a push for more ram help them or would they run themselves into a corner again?
What good does lateral thinking with withered technology do if it hinders you?
I think the new leads in Nintendo wants third party. Idk if this also matter but I see no one brings up Xbox lack of performance during the 8th gen era. Could Nintendo see this and be confident they can fill some of that role where Xbox is missing with third party?
Mr Swine
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TL;DR: I'd take the RAM. Which I was going to say when you asked, but then I had to check a bunch of benchmarks to be sure, because I Have A Problem(tm).
This is another place where Steam Deck changed my mind. The OLED I bought has a nice bandwidth bump, and yes, it does improve performance, and it doesn't matter. It smooths out dropped frames in some games, in some places, but it doesn't make them go away. And it doesn't give a high enough performance bump for you to up the frame cap or increase visual quality.
The extra RAM means you that regardless of the frame rate, or even the resolution you're looking at highest quality textures. That's a definite win. But AMD and Nvidia are obviously different architectures, which is why I had to check benchmarks.
The 3070 is one of the more bandwidth starved cards in the RTX 30 line up. The 3070 Ti has only 6% more compute power, but it's got a whopping 35% more memory bandwidth, putting it on the high end for bandwidth. Digital Foundry has a bunch of benchmarks for these cards, and... it's 6% faster. Slightly higher on 4k games, but lower on 1080p games. Same on the RT benchmarks.
The 3080 has a 12GB version that is much the same. Only 3% different in TFLOPS, but a 20% increase in memory bandwidth... and a 6% improvements in actual games, disappearing quickly as you drop to 1080p.
I'm sure that software developers optimizing for the hardware could do amazing things with the extra bandwidth. But it doesn't look like existing engines are really hitting bandwidth limits on Ampere hardware, so staying in line with the rest of the RTX 30 series seems like 3rd parties will be in great shape. And as for first party stuff, Nintendo has the most bandwidth optimized engine on the market. What they're doing with Tears of the Kingdom and 25GB/s of bandwidth is insane.
Side Note: Since I have all these benchmarks and specs in a spreadsheet (I SAID I HAVE A PROBLEM AND THE FIRST STEP IS RECOGNIZING IT) I decided to look at the less sexy parts of the architecture. ROPS, TMUS, and the L2 cache. All of these systems interact in various ways to create the final efficiency of the system.
There are folks hoping for 4 MB of L2 cache, and not the 1 MB (as the leak is ambiguous). If you look at cache as a proportion of the memory bandwidth available, 1 MB is already more than any desktop card. 4 MB would be beyond generous, and likely pretty expensive. 1MB is already luxurious.
Texture mapping units are part of the SM design, so the ratio there always matches. Sufficient or insufficient, there is no way to tell, because it's locked into the Ampere/Lovelace design.
ROPs are a little different. They're by GPC, so sometimes you get extra ROPS relative to SMs after binning. With just one GPC, that isn't happening on T239, but it also doesn't seem to matter, Performance doesn't seem to track with ROPS in a way that indicates it would be a problem.
I can see devs optimizing PS5/XBSX ports by having a larger chunk of memory for objects, larger levels and so on even if the fidelity is on par with series S or a tad below it. More ram also allows for multiplat that receives DLC to come to Switch 2
I dont really think Nintendo needs to be too worried about competing directly with Steam Deck in terms of raw specs
The steam deck is already at a disadvantage power wise even if it sits at the same power bracket, Because it is running games that are most likely designed to run on a huge range of hardware with various quirks, Some may run better than others but the performance is gonna be more variable
Where as games for the Switch 2 will be built with that specific set of hardware inside so they will always be able to end up squeezing way more out of that than any game ever will on the Steam Deck
The steam deck is already at a disadvantage power wise even if it sits at the same power bracket, Because it is running games that are most likely designed to run on a huge range of hardware with various quirks, Some may run better than others but the performance is gonna be more variable
Where as games for the Switch 2 will be built with that specific set of hardware inside so they will always be able to end up squeezing way more out of that than any game ever will on the Steam Deck
omniryu
Bob-omb
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What do you mean DLC?
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
Skepticism is fine I'm just addressing your point since you brought up 'the way Nintendo operates' so I invoked the Switch as a recent example which outperformed the 360/PS3. With zero leaks one might reasonably expect a Switch 2 to outperform last gen, instead of the 'base PS4 or under' as you suggested in your initial post.
People were skeptical about the Tegra X1's performance when it was revealed to be the Switch's chip and those expectations have been consistently trounced over the last couple of years.
Nothing is proven until they show off the console but I get the feeling some folks are afraid of being disappointed and are tempering their expectations for that reason instead of being based on the available information. The common refrain I see is "we've done this for every Nintendo console" but I'd like to think context and time matters. I don't remember much overinflation of spec expectations prior to the Switch, especially coming off the Wii U, and especially when we learned it would be a portable console. As for now, the prevailing opinion outside this thread for the Switch 2 is "I hope it's at least a PS4".
Idk just the idea of this console having DLSS is enough to excite me. The rest is just gravy.
Mr Swine
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There are few Switch games that won’t r receive the new DLC because of the lack of ram. Having plenty of ram will alleviate that
omniryu
Bob-omb
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I tell ya. If I made merchandise on "because Nintendo" I can buy me a tesla now.
redmutineer75
Bob-omb
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We do have a guy whose pfp is fucking Man, so this isn't too much of a stretch.
I'm pretty much in agreement, The only thing consistent about Nintendo is the fact that their consoles tend to always outperform the previous generation
Gamecube > PS1
Nintendo 64 > Whatever came before it
3DS > PSP
Wii > PS2
Wii U > PS3
Switch > Wii U (An outlier if you consider Nintendo Switch to be a seperate generation, Which many seem to consider it the same Generation as PS4/XO)
It is basically expected to outperform PS4/Xbox One
Hajeman
Handheld
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Back to square one again for Switch Pro likes PS4 Pro. So tired. When no official information, this will happen
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It actually kinda is hard to understand, though. Third party games were given to studios like Panic Button when those games were already done and built and those teams were off to work on the next game, that's why those ports were outsourced, not because the teams that made those games couldn't figure out how to downport them.
It sounds like what you're saying is that when Larian couldn't get Baldur's Gate to work with Series S that what they shoulda done is just given it to a different studio. It's just an odd thing to frame as a simple fix.
omniryu
Bob-omb
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The original Xbox was more powerful than the Wii.
Toasty
Rattata
I'm assuming there was more to this reply originally.
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
Worth noting the PC handhelds don't need to care about getting ports. The point of them is that you can load up your existing PC library. Which is swell. And you'll find that people are willing to accept settings like a locked 24 FPS on Baldur's Gate 3 just to play the game portably. After all it's just a game in your Steam library, you could buy stronger hardware to play the game at higher settings if you wanted to. People are satisfied with the Deck because it's powerful enough to run a decent chunk of games well and the outliers like Starfield are just that, outliers. Cool if you want to brute force it, but it's whatever if you don't. There are other games to play.
The Switch 2 needs to be designed around comfortably getting ports. Higher expectations since there's an actual docked mode for this console, so games need to target higher resolutions, and have consistent performance and visual settings across both modes. And you have to convince red-blooded gamers to buy these new ports for $60-$70 to build up their new Switch 2 gaming library. So 'locked 24 FPS' Baldur's Gate 3 is a non-starter here.
The good news is that the Switch 2 doesn't need to hit those 'on-paper' gigahertz flopwatts per microsecond specs as the PC handhelds because it will get native software and have a lean OS. The theme here is efficiency. This will give us more performant games at lower power consumption.
It'd be fun to compare how the Switch fares to contemporary handhelds in 2016/2017 like the GPD Win 1 / 2, but I don't actually know how the Intel chips on those compare to the Tegra X1.
The Switch 2 needs to be designed around comfortably getting ports. Higher expectations since there's an actual docked mode for this console, so games need to target higher resolutions, and have consistent performance and visual settings across both modes. And you have to convince red-blooded gamers to buy these new ports for $60-$70 to build up their new Switch 2 gaming library. So 'locked 24 FPS' Baldur's Gate 3 is a non-starter here.
The good news is that the Switch 2 doesn't need to hit those 'on-paper' gigahertz flopwatts per microsecond specs as the PC handhelds because it will get native software and have a lean OS. The theme here is efficiency. This will give us more performant games at lower power consumption.
It'd be fun to compare how the Switch fares to contemporary handhelds in 2016/2017 like the GPD Win 1 / 2, but I don't actually know how the Intel chips on those compare to the Tegra X1.
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lol. that post is saying they’re releasing a pro that’ll last 2 years and change - and after the base console is quickly losing all relevance from major third parties *edit: and consumers. We’re in a sales decline. And I’m aware that PS4 Pro had a short life but it dropped when PS4 was super popular and apparently only sold 15(?) million. That just doesn’t seem like a sensible move.
how does one reconcile that decision making? i’m not confident you can. maybe if they saw an important new technology in 2026/27 that they wanted to be at the forefront of? grasping at straws.
how does one reconcile that decision making? i’m not confident you can. maybe if they saw an important new technology in 2026/27 that they wanted to be at the forefront of? grasping at straws.
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BreakAtmo
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To be clear, do you mean the RAM pricing is similar after taking inflation into account, or is it a similar amount of literal dollars?
Thanks for the data. So yeah, personally I think that 15min drop from the higher refresh rate would easily be worth it, with 45fps@90hz beating 60fps@60hz. My personal hope is that the Switch 2 goes with 90hz - basically a 1080p, 16:9 version of the SD OLED display. 60fps@120hz would be really cool and have notable benefits for fighting games, so I hope we see it in docked mode, but for handheld? 90hz would be my preference. VRR would also be a great addition, devs could let you just unlock the framerate and it would allow for automatic upgrades in a Switch 2 Pro, if that ever comes around.
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You, the games and actual dark clouds shall not be forgotten.
kvetcha
hoopy frood
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Because Nintendo, of course.
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#igotthatreference
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Simple Trolling. People like to be pessimistic about Nintendo in the sense that they are never doing what we want (whoever "we" is) and that poster knows how to feed this sentiment.
omniryu
Bob-omb
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Well, from what I remember. That people were saying that tegra X1 weren't well and that Nintendo got a deal from them. And as far as the shield. I never heard of any information about they got a deal with with from nvidia.
CalmMind
Unconventional wisdom
50% of all software sold on the Switch is 3rd party software. Anything that low would be a disservice to their prolonged growth in that area.
Maybe they are assuming that NVIDIA had to offer a deal to Nintendo to supply the chip for the console because other console manufacturers didnt want to touch NVIDIA after PS3 (I heard something about NVIDIA giving Sony a bad deal with the PS3 Chips?)
Dark Cloud
Warpstar Knight
Why y’all keep letting this dude bring back this storage and RAM conversation. Aren’t you tired of it? They’re doing it for trolling
Kartina
theprocessbroke
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I find it funny how the predictions that are more optimistic that come from leaked data are derided and criticized for setting themselves for disappointment while extremely pessimistic predictions (i’ve heard stuff like the next switch being xbox one level but weaker than a base ps4) based on vibes and “Nintendo is always cheap” are accepted as realistic.
This is what I call the “Because Nintendo difference”
This is what I call the “Because Nintendo difference”
Langstonboy
Yes
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Already been debunked multiple times.
omniryu
Bob-omb
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As far as I know, no deal. Maybe there is something in the leaks we can use to find out.
BDGAME
Octorok
16? Amazing! 128? Ok, not so good. Hope that is easy to expand the memory. Easier than steam deck at least. But I hope for 256 as a possible option, that or a fucking aggressive compress for make bigger games possible in 100 GB or less.
according to Semi Accurate, tegra division were desperate for a win. and Nvidia threw in full software support for the Switch for next to nothing
omniryu
Bob-omb
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I said it before, " because nintendo". Also, a lie will spread further than the truth. Just know that more is to come. Which is great as when the games comes out we will see more "miracle ports"
omniryu
Bob-omb
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That's the part I heard was a myth. But then again, I don't have the source on me.
Dimensio
Piranha Plant
The Gamecube was more powerful than the PS2, and the N64 was more powerful than the PS1.
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