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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

That just sounds unnecessarily expensive & complicated for both Nintendo & the customer with a bevy of questions that would be raised. I think just offering the console only variant would probably be a better idea then this.
Well the problem is there isn't really a market for a console only variant without a "Hook".

Unless you make it 150-200$ and digital only, it needs another way to justify it's existence with how big and powerful and therefore likely expensive Drake is
 
Well the problem is there isn't really a market for a console only variant without a "Hook".

Unless you make it 150-200$ and digital only, it needs another way to justify it's existence with how big and powerful and therefore likely expensive Drake is
That is not a hook so much as being needlessly complex & basically a redundant product line. Nothing about that description screams justifying its existence.

And, yes a console only Switch would have to be just that:
  • 200$ (Same price as Lite. No more, no less)
  • Digital only ( unless they can figure out a way to get a cart reader in there)
  • Dock profile configuration (no extra power)
Considering Nintendo’s margins on the Lite was slim when it came out; I could see them doing something similar to a console only variant. The only justification the console only variant needs is if Nintendo thinks there is some slim consumer base they aren’t reaching with the Lite or hybrid. Or just as a “why the hell not” thing to cover all their bases. Not that I think it is happening since the numbers don’t add up in any favorable way for such a device.
 
There is only one TV only product I can imagine has a niche for Nintendo and that is if they shrink Mariko further to say 8nm and manage to get it running a docked profile in a TV stick format.

I can see this appealing to an audience with limited living space, having a switch TV stick you can plug in and forget about running off TV USB power. Would have to be a budget product and this is why I think it would fail, to get everything condensed down into such a small footprint would probably require game cube level engineering and the r and d probably wouldn't justify the number of potential customers.
 
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That is not a hook so much as being needlessly complex & basically a redundant product line. Nothing about that description screams justifying its existence.

And, yes a console only Switch would have to be just that:
  • 200$ (Same price as Lite. No more, no less)
  • Digital only ( unless they can figure out a way to get a cart reader in there)
  • Dock profile configuration (no extra power)
Considering Nintendo’s margins on the Lite was slim when it came out; I could see them doing something similar to a console only variant. The only justification the console only variant needs is if Nintendo thinks there is some slim consumer base they aren’t reaching with the Lite or hybrid. Or just as a “why the hell not” thing to cover all their bases. Not that I think it is happening since the numbers don’t add up in any favorable way for such a device.
Cart readers are tiny, and very cheap. Having it wouldn’t be a technical issue.

The reasoning for not having it, would be that it forces people to buy everything from the eshop, where Nintendos margins are higher.
 
Thinking about how "Drake" is being positioned, with tariffs being lifted and GPU prices coming down, normally I'd figure the OLED would be marketed as the new "base" Switch...

But what if, in fact, the OLED will become the new "budget tier", with another, more cut-down "Drake" unit being released alongside to act as a "base" Switch i.e. "cut-down" as in less gimmicks, akin to the Switch Lite, but perhaps still retaining its hybrid functionality? This is, of course, following a signifiacnt price cut to all Erista/Mariko Switches. Normally most people will rule out such an option, but if they want to keep the adoption rate and momentum of the Switch brand, and not to mention the system itself is entering its 6th/7th year, I could see them slashing the price by about $50-100 on all the non Drake models.

My reasoning is also because, even as a "Premium Tier" product, the "Drake" in some form will still need to be accessible pricewise for mass market appeal, and I don't think it will ever reach the costs of the other two current gen consoles. $400 might be the ceiling of an asking price for some, so one that doesn't have too many of the advanced or "gimmicky" features at $100 less might be enticing for those who just want to continue enjoying the current Switch library "at a higher definition" (even though we know this would probably require patching older games, and even then, it's likely not all will get an upgrade patch).

tl;dr
Mariko - $200 (assuming still sold)
OLED - $250
"base" Drake - $300-$350
"Premium" Drake - $400
 
Talking about only home console Switch revision, it has sense only like low price option similar to Switch Lite (so around $200), and hardly would have higher sale than Switch Lite.
On other hand, making basically full next gen hardware like only home console doesn't too much business sense when one of main reasons why Switch is so popular is hybrid nature, so in that case sales would be quite limited.
 
Talking about only home console Switch revision, it has sense only like low price option similar to Switch Lite (so around $200), and hardly would have higher sale than Switch Lite.
On other hand, making basically full next gen hardware like only home console doesn't too much business sense when one of main reasons why Switch is so popular is hybrid nature, so in that case sales would be quite limited.

And this is basically the gist of the whole thing I would say. People often cite the handheld only model, but there is a very specific reason why Nintendo was okay doing an portable-only model versus a console-only model and it comes down to this aspect of being able to easily take it anywhere and play it, where-as the main system can work as both as needed. That's something I don't think most people tend to get. Not only that, I feel if Nintendo were to do a system-only SKU, they would've done so by now.
 
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I think he mentioned it's about the Spartacus announcement?
Since he only wants to do something about Switch DLSS once when he has gathered enough new insights, I would not expect anything on the topic right now.
nate hasn't mentioned anything about his new postcast
 
Thinking about how "Drake" is being positioned, with tariffs being lifted and GPU prices coming down, normally I'd figure the OLED would be marketed as the new "base" Switch...

But what if, in fact, the OLED will become the new "budget tier", with another, more cut-down "Drake" unit being released alongside to act as a "base" Switch i.e. "cut-down" as in less gimmicks, akin to the Switch Lite, but perhaps still retaining its hybrid functionality? This is, of course, following a signifiacnt price cut to all Erista/Mariko Switches. Normally most people will rule out such an option, but if they want to keep the adoption rate and momentum of the Switch brand, and not to mention the system itself is entering its 6th/7th year, I could see them slashing the price by about $50-100 on all the non Drake models.

My reasoning is also because, even as a "Premium Tier" product, the "Drake" in some form will still need to be accessible pricewise for mass market appeal, and I don't think it will ever reach the costs of the other two current gen consoles. $400 might be the ceiling of an asking price for some, so one that doesn't have too many of the advanced or "gimmicky" features at $100 less might be enticing for those who just want to continue enjoying the current Switch library "at a higher definition" (even though we know this would probably require patching older games, and even then, it's likely not all will get an upgrade patch).

tl;dr
Mariko - $200 (assuming still sold)
OLED - $250
"base" Drake - $300-$350
"Premium" Drake - $400
Again this just seems unnecessary. What would they reduce the Lite to then if the Mariko is taking the 200$ slot. Why would they even reduce either the Mariko or OLED to such prices when instead they can just slowly shift the Mariko out of the market for the OLED; like what they did with the 3DS. Why even have a “base” Drake system when they will probably just have a Drake system?

As we see with the current gen of console adoption is probably going to be gradual with a lengthy cross gen period. You release the device & slowly over time phase out the OLED model for Drake, with software slowly becoming available only on Drake. They then have 3 products on the market: lite, regular, premium. Console only doesn’t exist for many a reason.
Cart readers are tiny, and very cheap. Having it wouldn’t be a technical issue.

The reasoning for not having it, would be that it forces people to buy everything from the eshop, where Nintendos margins are higher.
I wasn’t thinking anything technical rather if Nintendo would think it worth it for such a device. I guess if they just take the Switch, lay it flat, make a more enclosed design, but keep the fan placement & reader then I guess.
 
With inflation, rocketing oil and shipping prices, I think anyone expecting price cuts on anything is living on another planet.

In the recent Q&A, it was revealed the only reason there was Switch stock in Europe doing Christmas 2021 was because they were being shipped by airplane and that is a huge expense unto itself. Companies don't absorb those kinds of costs and also cut prices.

Some of the armchair business men in here need a business reality check.
 
I wasn’t thinking anything technical rather if Nintendo would think it worth it for such a device. I guess if they just take the Switch, lay it flat, make a more enclosed design, but keep the fan placement & reader then I guess.
Let’s be honest, higher margins of digital sales is the main motivation of ms and Sony too, for releasing an all digital sku.

In spite of a disc drive being a lot more expensive and spacious than a card slot.
 
Hi guys, I think I broke or fix something (depends who you ask). My oled switch just got homebrewd. Was testing some exclusive mariko OC apps but I think I got them bugged and as a consecuence of that I can OC my Oled switch In handheld mode (with NO USB/AC connected) to the same lvl of Erista switch (with oficial AC) 1750/921. I think the experience I have in some games is like a pro patch exclusive to handheld mode. For example XC2 is running at Dock profile 1224/921 it runs at solid 720p/30 in handheld mode so yes It looks awesome (achieveable before on Erista switches but with power cable connected only so no true handheld). My concern is that this can make my baterry explode? My fan speed goes up to 20% and my temps never go hotter than 41 C.
 
nate hasn't mentioned anything about his new postcast
He did: Sony announcements and Zelda delay.

 
He did: Sony announcements and Zelda delay.

but he doesn't say that the postcast will be just about that. He says that maybe he will also add that content.
 
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Talking about only home console Switch revision, it has sense only like low price option similar to Switch Lite (so around $200), and hardly would have higher sale than Switch Lite.
On other hand, making basically full next gen hardware like only home console doesn't too much business sense when one of main reasons why Switch is so popular is hybrid nature, so in that case sales would be quite limited.

In my opinion, I see possible an only home console for next years and final years' Switch life. I mean, if they create a new home console which supose a generational leap, that would imply an added value for playing. Furthermore, imagine that this new home console could be miniaturized in a few years at the end of Switch's life. So, we can have first the home console, and then in 2025-26 the hybrid or handheld system with backwards compatibility.

I guess that way would be easier for Nintendo to handle the production cost given that they don't rely on the screen, battery and dock for the home console. And I'm sure Drake's SoC will be cheaper next years.

Also, this isn't new. We have seen throughout gaming history. GBA was very similar to SNES. DS y 3DS received games from N64, GC and Wii. And Switch is actually a handheld WiiU (not technically, but similar in power as the others). So, if they can make a home console with certain characteristics that can be reused in the future, I would understand having an only home console next year.

This way, if they can choose a configuration that can be reused in the future in a hybrid configuration with the same CPU's speed, they could make a home console first. In addition, that would avoid cannibalizing the sales of the current Switch which due to its portability. But I guess this would suppose a colossal amount of work.
 
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Let’s be honest, higher margins of digital sales is the main motivation of ms and Sony too, for releasing an all digital sku.

In spite of a disc drive being a lot more expensive and spacious than a card slot.
Sure I’m not denying that they may just wanna do all digital. I just think that in addition to that they may think the slot is just pointless for how many people it would service.┐(´ー`)┌

I think it’s moot anyway since I don’t think this device is being made in any fashion.
 

@NateDrake is this real or is this an April fools joke? lol
With inflation, rocketing oil and shipping prices, I think anyone expecting price cuts on anything is living on another planet.

In the recent Q&A, it was revealed the only reason there was Switch stock in Europe doing Christmas 2021 was because they were being shipped by airplane and that is a huge expense unto itself. Companies don't absorb those kinds of costs and also cut prices.

Some of the armchair business men in here need a business reality check.
Mmm, are you referring to the investor Q&A of November?
 
Sure I’m not denying that they may just wanna do all digital. I just think that in addition to that they may think the slot is just pointless for how many people it would service.┐(´ー`)┌

I think it’s moot anyway since I don’t think this device is being made in any fashion.
Agreed.
 
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It's barely overclocked, the change is lost in the screen refresh rate. Also the Game Boy Color was released 10 years into the GB's life cycle.

The DSi, however, was released 4 years into the DS's life cycle, doubled the clock speed, 4x the RAM, plus cameras and access to the digital store. The DSi was launched while the DS was solidly healthy and had a good install base, because of a power war with the PSP.

The 3DS was a "successor" 3 years later. It struggled because it was marketed as a successor, but didn't have great launch titles and lots of folks were happy with their DS. Their install base was so huge it was actually a problem. It was a 3 core device, two ARM 11 CPUs, and one ARM9 for DS compatibility, retained the DSi's cameras, and replaced the custom 3D accelerator inhouse developed by Nintend with a PICA200

The New 3DS, 3 years later, was a quad core device instead of dual core, ran at over 3x the orginal's clock speed, double the ram and auto stabilized the 3D feature. This was a significant bump in power, though the ARM11 arch was retained, and the GPU didn't run any faster.

The Switch would release 3 years later.

And of course, the DS itself was launched 3 years into the GBA's lifecycle, which was itself 3 years after the GBC. Every iteration retained backwards compatibility with the previous, but dropped compat for the one before it. Nintendo has launched a new, more powerful handheld, every 3-4 years for 20 years. Releasing revisions halfway through a consoles life cycle is the norm for their handhelds.

I think it's also pretty clear that they have bungled most of those. Nintendo needs regular revisions of their handhelds to cover the long gaps between their home consoles - that's why they didn't retire the GBA immediately when the DS released (calling it the "third pillar") so if the DS line tanked they could retreat to the GameBoy. And they did the same for Switch, if it bombed, ready to return to the 3DS. But now they don't have a separate handheld line from their TV line to sustain each other, and unlike MS and Sony they don't have a large independent empire with which to weather a bad year or two.

We can argue about what's a good idea for Nintendo, but regular refreshes is their trend, and they're under extra pressure in the Switch line because they no longer have two independent lines of hardware business. If the "New Switch" is a failure, they'll recoup to the Classic Switch, and retrench for the successor. If it succeeds, they'll phase over to the New Switch and run with that as long as the Switch "family" can go, just like they did with the DS.
GBC/DSi are all die-shrunk variants of the original hardware and benefited from overclocking.
new3DS is kind of an inbetween scenario as it used the same CPU/GPU combo but increased CPU core coount from 2 to 4 and increased the clocks.
The Mariko TX1 would have been the closest analog to those hardware refreshes.

Whatever this new hardware is the furtherest detached from new3DS/GBC/DSi
 
Hi guys, I think I broke or fix something (depends who you ask). My oled switch just got homebrewd. Was testing some exclusive mariko OC apps but I think I got them bugged and as a consecuence of that I can OC my Oled switch In handheld mode (with NO USB/AC connected) to the same lvl of Erista switch (with oficial AC) 1750/921. I think the experience I have in some games is like a pro patch exclusive to handheld mode. For example XC2 is running at Dock profile 1224/921 it runs at solid 720p/30 in handheld mode so yes It looks awesome (achieveable before on Erista switches but with power cable connected only so no true handheld). My concern is that this can make my baterry explode? My fan speed goes up to 20% and my temps never go hotter than 41 C.
I think your switch will fine. The power savings are much better on the Mariko chips than the original. I don't recall v2 ever getting hacked.

Would be cool if you could test the battery life with docked specs. you are able to go back to regular handheld clocks, right?
 
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GBC/DSi are all die-shrunk variants of the original hardware and benefited from overclocking.
new3DS is kind of an inbetween scenario as it used the same CPU/GPU combo but increased CPU core coount from 2 to 4 and increased the clocks.
The Mariko TX1 would have been the closest analog to those hardware refreshes.

Whatever this new hardware is the furtherest detached from new3DS/GBC/DSi
Yeah, it’s a new move technologically, no question. It’s not a new move business wise, is what I was getting at, and the unification of their TV and handheld console lines means their reasons for doing it are even higher stakes
 
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computer-refresh.gif
 
Thinking about how "Drake" is being positioned, with tariffs being lifted and GPU prices coming down, normally I'd figure the OLED would be marketed as the new "base" Switch...

But what if, in fact, the OLED will become the new "budget tier", with another, more cut-down "Drake" unit being released alongside to act as a "base" Switch i.e. "cut-down" as in less gimmicks, akin to the Switch Lite, but perhaps still retaining its hybrid functionality? This is, of course, following a signifiacnt price cut to all Erista/Mariko Switches. Normally most people will rule out such an option, but if they want to keep the adoption rate and momentum of the Switch brand, and not to mention the system itself is entering its 6th/7th year, I could see them slashing the price by about $50-100 on all the non Drake models.

My reasoning is also because, even as a "Premium Tier" product, the "Drake" in some form will still need to be accessible pricewise for mass market appeal, and I don't think it will ever reach the costs of the other two current gen consoles. $400 might be the ceiling of an asking price for some, so one that doesn't have too many of the advanced or "gimmicky" features at $100 less might be enticing for those who just want to continue enjoying the current Switch library "at a higher definition" (even though we know this would probably require patching older games, and even then, it's likely not all will get an upgrade patch).

tl;dr
Mariko - $200 (assuming still sold)
OLED - $250
"base" Drake - $300-$350
"Premium" Drake - $400
I think Switch Lite will remain the budget option until a new one is made containing Drake or a die shrink thereof. The only potential other option I see is a TV only Mariko box, which would be a super cheap Wii mini style revision.
 
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Nate is saving his Drake info for his in-person press conference during the week that would've been for E3. It's a special globally streamed event called Drakeworld.
 
I assume waiting for more concrete details beyond the NVIDIA Leak itself?

The leak, while interesting, mostly corroborated what had been reported previously. There is certainly plenty of room for speculation in regards to clocks and such, but that's not something we want to delve into. We don't want to make an episode that is purely regurgitation of prior information: devkits existing, being distributed, being worked with by third-party studios, etc... All that info remains accurate and nothing has changed on that front.

Getting more final kit information and an update on timing for production and introduction of hardware would prove more beneficial than the leak & that's the type of information I want to tie loose ends up on before running an episode. Otherwise, I may as well republish the episode from October.

Nate is saving his Drake info for his in-person press conference during the week that would've been for E3. It's a special globally streamed event called Drakeworld.
I'll have to get in touch with GK so he can book my show for his Game Fest.
 
If I could just know we’ll see this thing in the flesh by March ‘23 then I honestly think I’d be satisfied. That’s a fine wait. I’m hopeful.

(That’s not a comment at you, Nate, just a comment in general)
 
0
The leak, while interesting, mostly corroborated what had been reported previously. There is certainly plenty of room for speculation in regards to clocks and such, but that's not something we want to delve into. We don't want to make an episode that is purely regurgitation of prior information: devkits existing, being distributed, being worked with by third-party studios, etc... All that info remains accurate and nothing has changed on that front.

Getting more final kit information and an update on timing for production and introduction of hardware would prove more beneficial than the leak & that's the type of information I want to tie loose ends up on before running an episode. Otherwise, I may as well republish the episode from October.


I'll have to get in touch with GK so he can book my show for his Game Fest.
So if you are focusing on Sony, then anything about the rumours of them buying Fromsoft or Capcom?

Or are those completely off-base
 
So if you are focusing on Sony, then anything about the rumours of them buying Fromsoft or Capcom?

Or are those completely off-base
I think both are off-base:
  1. FromSoftware is owned by Kadokawa so Sony would have to either buy the company wholesale or pry them off.
  2. Capcom I don’t think want to sell since they have affirmed they want to keep it familial. Plus with their current financials I’m not sure what Sony can offer them outside of western growth, which they have committed to doing so on PC.
 
Just got a 3060 upgrade for my PC. My life is now Deep Learned Super Sampled (or Deep Learned Anti Aliased, depending on which method).

Playing Control at max settings + max ray-tracing with DLSS is definitely an eye opener. Yes, there is the "DLSS fuzziness" that graphics snobs often highlight, but given the game already has tons of post processing like film grain and seeing it run at ridiculous framerates, I really don't mind the trade off since, if anything, it's actually free anti-aliasing. And that's not even getting into DLAA, which is basically what we could see should "Drake" ever manage to hit 4k60 native for some titles. My guess is it would be very useful for games like Mario Kart which don't rely on too many fancy post-processing and lighting effects (Tensor Cores acting as the hardware accelerated AA).

In short, while I think it's prudent to temper expectations (DLSS doesn't come free, after all, and there's the bandwidth constraints too), I think I'm sufficiently excited to see this tech being utilized in a low powered handheld.
 
Just got a 3060 upgrade for my PC. My life is now Deep Learned Super Sampled (or Deep Learned Anti Aliased, depending on which method).

Playing Control at max settings + max ray-tracing with DLSS is definitely an eye opener. Yes, there is the "DLSS fuzziness" that graphics snobs often highlight, but given the game already has tons of post processing like film grain and seeing it run at ridiculous framerates, I really don't mind the trade off since, if anything, it's actually free anti-aliasing. And that's not even getting into DLAA, which is basically what we could see should "Drake" ever manage to hit 4k60 native for some titles. My guess is it would be very useful for games like Mario Kart which don't rely on too many fancy post-processing and lighting effects (Tensor Cores acting as the hardware accelerated AA).

In short, while I think it's prudent to temper expectations (DLSS doesn't come free, after all, and there's the bandwidth constraints too), I think I'm sufficiently excited to see this tech being utilized in a low powered handheld.
Yeah, had an RTX card since 2019, and there is a reason I am so excited about the prospect of DLSS on Drake.

And I'm not even on Ampere (Started on a 2070 Super, got my Dad's 2080Ti when be upgraded to a 3080).

And Drake should be more advanced uArch wise than Ampere (If for the cache alone) performance-wise.

And DLAA honestly has a very interesting use case for portable mode as it likely is the best of both worlds between DLDSR or just running pure Native 720p.

I do say the number of games that hit 720p portable mode will be higher than the number of games that can hit 4K without DLSS when docked, thus why DLAA in portable mode would be more interesting IMHO, at least for Quality Modes (As I assume Drake will implement a Quality/Performance/RT/Performance RT selection in a number of games).
 
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Like before the podcast will explain the available rumors and discuss the latest news from Nintendo but not reveal anything new…
 
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I think both are off-base:
  1. FromSoftware is owned by Kadokawa so Sony would have to either buy the company wholesale or pry them off.

I don’t think that’s out of the question, though. Buying all of Kadokawa wouldn’t be like buying all of Konami or Namco Bandai, where Sony would end up with either large health club/gambling businesses or a large toy business that they have seemingly little interest in. Kadokawa fits in rather nicely with Sony Music’s growing interest in anime and manga, which has been an area of growth for the company. In a lot of ways, a Kadokawa acquisition for Sony would make a lot of sense even if Kadokawa didn’t own FromSoftware at all. Throw in the fact that Kadokawa does own From, and they just released the biggest game of the year, and they focus on a popular genre that PlayStation has lost a lot of ground in due to Microsoft buying Bethesda and Obsidian, and the acquisition only seems like an even better fit.

I’m not saying it’s for sure going to happen. For one thing, Kadokawa/From doesn’t own the Elden Ring IP, which does diminish their luster. But Sony did buy Insomniac, a developer with precious little valuable IP of their own, simply because they wanted to lock up a well-regarded and consistent development studio.

I certainly wouldn’t dismiss a Sony-Kadokawa tie-up because Sony would have to buy all of Kadokawa. That would make sense for Sony anyway.

I don’t like to cheerlead corporate acquisitions. But if Sony was going to buy someone, I’d much rather it be Sony Music buying Kadokawa/From than SIE buying Konami or something. If Kadokawa fell under Sony Music, there’s even a decent chance that From’s games would remain multi platform. Heck, Sony Music’s Aniplex brand just released a game that was exclusive to Xbox and PC.
 
Please read this staff post before posting.

Furthermore, according to this follow-up post, all off-topic chat will be moderated.
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