eye0h
"aggressively persue a multiplatform strategy"
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If this is a Tutor runs into their student situation I think my mind will break
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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)
- Thread starter Dakhil
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Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
What this sounds like is that the Gen 2 portion is barely visible at a distance, with the '2' (the crucial detail) being outsized by the Switch logo above it.
I think the Series X naming is clunky but there is at least a clear flashy new logo that's used on boxes. Maybe the Gen. could be rotated and we'd have the number 2 as the big visible element.
It'd be a lot of effort to avoid the simple 'Switch 2' name but if they went with it, they need to make it super obvious. If there's a giant 2 on the box I think people will get it. Like how the '3' in 3DS was highlighted, and the 'Advance' part of GBA took up 2/3 the space.
Well I tutor high school students so seems unlikely
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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The Series X logo is TINY on an Xbox game case, BUT, I do sort of like the idea of the 2 being bigger than the "generation" text.
However, if they go with a name like "Generation 2", then they don't WANT it to be distinct at a distance, they just want people to think "It's a Switch, that's a Switch game."
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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I'm strictly on an "as needed" basis with Latin. I know Homo Sapiens, don't need to know anything else right now.
Leviraps
Moblin
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SiG
Chain Chomp
I could actually see them doing something like this. Far better than just a usual "2" at the end.
Though I'm still biased and prefer Super Nintendo Switch with the "Super" part using the same SNES font.
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
It is tiny, but still visible at a glance. Like the PS5 logo. Even with these boxarts I shrunk where you can barely read 'Xbox Series X' on the Sonic Frontiers box, the logo is still visible.
I'll reiterate that I don't particularly like the Series X naming scheme and it's caused confusion. There are other examples.
The new names of console iterations (3, New, Advance, Super) have always been highlighted by Nintendo*, in combination with adjusting the positioning of the logo, adding 'Only For', and shrinking down extraneous parts like 'entertainment system'.
I've shrunk these down to a comical degree to illustrate how clear it is which devices these games are for.
*Done poorly on the Wii U boxart.
I also think Switch 2 will be the de facto Switch for the next 7 years. But I still think the clarity is necessary, even if it's for a better shelf presence or to avoid confusing grandparents accidentally buying Mario Universe for their grandson's Gen 1 Switch.
They would have known by 2020/2021 even that by 2024, 4N (5nm) would be a mature node, I think if that is the node choice then it was made way back then.
They knew this stuff years in advance and if you look at 2020 it's also when Furukawa starts to sound off on the Switch 1 having an aytpically long product cycle ("only entering the mid-cycle of it's life span" or something to that effect). Probably they made the decision in 2020 to go with 4N/5nm and knew full well Switch 2 was not coming any time soon.
If there was any debate internally, the massive sales boom in 2020 thanks to Animal Crossing probably made it an easy choice for Nintendo. Probably initially they were thinking about spring 2023 as a launch (6 year normal product cycle), but I think that changed in 2020 once they realized the Switch 2 chip would be much better off on the 4N/5nm node and that the Switch was performing way beyond expectations that they weren't going to need a successor and could afford to wait.
NateDrake
Chain Chomp
Workable? Sure. Though I'd suspect MH6 would be a late port vs day & date release alongside the other versions.
Giancarlo
Nintendo connoiseur
Nintendo will hint 3D Mario, show at least a major third-party game
darthdiablo
+5 Death Stare
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Semi-related - I was building a spreadsheet (for personal use and reference) the timeline of T239's development (mixing both "things we feel pretty good about" and rumors that is difficult to confirm).They would have known by 2020/2021 even that by 2024, 4N (5nm) would be a mature node, I think if that is the node choice then it was made way back then.
They knew this stuff years in advance and if you look at 2020 it's also when Furukawa starts to sound off on the Switch 1 having an aytpically long product cycle ("only entering the mid-cycle of it's life span" or something to that effect). Probably they made the decision in 2020 to go with 4N/5nm and knew full well Switch 2 was not coming any time soon.
If there was any debate internally, the massive sales boom in 2020 thanks to Animal Crossing probably made it an easy choice for Nintendo. Probably initially they were thinking about spring 2023 as a launch (6 year normal product cycle), but I think that changed in 2020 once they realized the Switch 2 chip would be much better off on the 4N/5nm node and that the Switch was performing way beyond expectations that they weren't going to need a successor and could afford to wait.
Do we have any theories/hypotheticals about something Brainchild mentioned on Resetera around July 9, 2021, about things not being taped out, goals not being met, etc? The quote was:
I'm curious about this - I don't know what he was responding to (Brainchild has deleted the post but the content was still quoted by others, visible). Would this be more about shooting down the rumors of Switch Pro maybe? Anyway, if we were to believe this, this tells me Nintendo has not taped out Drake yet mid-2021. Making mid-2022 much more likely for the Drake tapeout.
Presumably if what Brainchild said was true, this makes me think Nintendo was waiting for 4N due to specific needs (power draw, size, heat concerns, those kind of things)
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
They rejected me despite my straight 100s in Latin smh
Dark Cloud
Warpstar Knight
September the Nintendo Switch 2 will launch with open world 3D Mario. October Metroid Prime 4 will release and Pokémon in November. Mario Kart X will release Half 1 of 2025. Tons of third party will sprinkle through.
D
Deleted member 5146
Guest
Would somebody like Tom Henderson have the sources to give an idea of the expected commercial release? Because that sounds like he's expecting Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft to all be shooting for autumn and winter of 2024
Is this chart from 2018?They would have known by 2020/2021 even that by 2024, 4N (5nm) would be a mature node, I think if that is the node choice then it was made way back then.
They knew this stuff years in advance and if you look at 2020 it's also when Furukawa starts to sound off on the Switch 1 having an aytpically long product cycle ("only entering the mid-cycle of it's life span" or something to that effect). Probably they made the decision in 2020 to go with 4N/5nm and knew full well Switch 2 was not coming any time soon.
If there was any debate internally, the massive sales boom in 2020 thanks to Animal Crossing probably made it an easy choice for Nintendo. Probably initially they were thinking about spring 2023 as a launch (6 year normal product cycle), but I think that changed in 2020 once they realized the Switch 2 chip would be much better off on the 4N/5nm node and that the Switch was performing way beyond expectations that they weren't going to need a successor and could afford to wait.
darthdiablo
+5 Death Stare
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When doing reverse image search on the chart, I clicked on a link that was dated 2021.
It's not the same chart but I noticed N4 was originally slated for late 2021.
I wonder if that explains some of the rumors in the past (successor or Switch Pro rumors that never manifested) because TSMC wasn't ready at the time
Blue Monty
Inkling
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He has leaked a lot of Ubisoft/Sony/EA stuff (western companies in general), so he probably knows stuff these companies know. He is that one that leaked PS5 pro and PS Portal btw
Dark Cloud
Warpstar Knight
Yes, he would know these things. He has good inside sources
D
Deleted member 3433
Guest
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
I think the joy con are intended to fulfill the customization aspect but I wouldn't say no to official dock and backplate personalization options.
N4 is not the same as 4N, which is an Nvidia specific branch of 5nm and what Lovelace is on.
I hope it's called Nintendo 8
darthdiablo
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Where does it say 4N? The chart shared earlier says N4, and the chart I found from 2021 in reverse image search says N4. In my text I say N4 as well. Can you point out where it says 4N?
redmutineer75
Bob-omb
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eye0h
"aggressively persue a multiplatform strategy"
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I don't know how I forgot about Joycons but a Joycon backplate combo would be so insane omg
It doesn't say 4N. I was just pointing out that 4N is not in the chart.
darthdiablo
+5 Death Stare
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I'm sorry, I'm still not following. haven't it always been the question of whether it is SEC8N, or TSMC N4?
yes, I'm aware TSMC N4 includes 5nm (optimized, rather). I'm not sure what you're getting at though.
I am not an expert in this area though, wanted to make sure I'm not overlooking something.
This is indeed super confusing, but the question has always been about SEC8N or TSMC N4, which is an Nvidia specific branch of 5N and separate from 4N. @Dakhil did I get that right?
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
8 GB of RAM, 8nm, 8 MB of storage
darthdiablo
+5 Death Stare
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Did you mean to say TSMC 4N? lol. (I noticed you also say TSMC N4).
Either way, I think I see what you mean, N4 and 4N is apparently different. According to Wikipedia, both have the same production timeframe (2022).
Sharp and Innolux were never integrated as this article suggested. That was an analyst opinion that didn’t pan out. IMHO it was a weird prediction from the start. Sharp has many lines of business outside of displays and TVs, such as home appliances and office automations (including this little robot), therefore Innolux would be ill-equipped to integrate with Sharp. If an integration actually occurred, there would’ve been a lot of news coverage, especially on the Japan side. Actually the recent Japanese reports alledged a frosty relationship between Sharp and Hon Hai (Foxconn); some believed that Sharp was saddled with a money-losing subsidiary due to Hon Hai founder’s dirty dealing.I still think its the Switch 2. Sharp and Innolux are basically the same company when it comes to displays, and sources indicate it will have an innolux display,
Sharp and Innolux to integrate their display business - with a focus on IGZO and OLEDs | OLED Info
A few weeks after Sharp agreed to sell a two-thirds stake to Foxconn (Hon Hai Precision) for $3.5 billion, the Taiwanese company is starting to integrate Sharp's display business with Innolux, Foxconn Taiwanese display arm.Innolux AMOLED prototype, 2012Today we hear a report from Taiwan that...www.oled-info.com
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Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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Unfortunately there are very clear technical reasons this wouldn't be possible.
Was looking at the Xbox Series 'Wraps'
Instead of Full on Special Editions how would you feel about Nintendo Brining back faceplates?
Personally I thought my 3DS feeling like wood was the coolest thing ever.
New 3DS (Non-XL) is my FAVOURITE console, ever, in terms of its design, full stop. Now part of that is unlike lots of people, I LOVED the C-Stick, since I'm used to ThinkPoint (still better than a trackpad don't @ me). Using C-Stick to move the camera comes SO naturally if you're used to mouse controls, and even moreso if you say, played Minecraft for hours on end with TrackPoint... but...
ThinkPads and New Nintendo 3DS share more than just a pointing stick technology. They have REDUNDANT SPACE. Of course they do! ThinkPads are hard-wearing business laptops designed to be thrown around 8-12 hours a day and still work six years from now, they're built out, and that gives them LOTS more room to have their own personality than the modern day menagerie of unibody aluminium boxes.
New 3DS on the other hand stands on a node shrink of already withered technology. It needed no cooling system, no fan, its "SOC" was so small the MicroSD Card laid beside it DWARFS it. The bulk of the PCB space is taken up by controller inputs and break-outs to the various cables its many lovely little fiddly bits needed to function.
But wait- how is any of this relevant to replaceable shells? Well! It means the core motherboard could be TINY, and extremely SLIM. But you need to be able to hold it comfortably, so it gets thickened up for the sake of comfort, and I suppose, the battery... By time you're done with that you have several millimetres of redundant plastic which serves only two functions, look good and feel good. At that point, why NOT let people replace them?
Basically, New Nintendo 3DS, an already larger than launch model with an even smaller set of ICs, had zero premium on space, allowing safe, easy changes to its outer shell.
The Nintendo Switch is FIT TO BURST. There simply is not enough room inside to do so safely and easily. The air channels it uses for cooling are formed by a plastic backplate and a moulded metal midplate. These parts are already extremely thin, especially as far as ABS goes, and we know that they MAY have pushed the thinness too far, with reports of cracking, strain, etc. The replacement plates would be extremely large and comparatively delicate, and it would mean the whole system has to become less integrated, and so you use more of your internal space to have users be able to clip it in, or screw it in, and NOT have those holes pull any secondary duty, lest the consumer destroy their device.
When Nintendo FOUND that additional space, when it became eminently possible, they didn't waste it on prettification, they went with FUNCTION. The smaller MoBo allowed for the Lite to be so much smaller and more comfortable, and for them to fit a metal frame, a huge kickstand and big, chunky hinges into the OLED Model.
With NG Switch looking to use similar levels of power, wattage wise, to the original Switch, but having an even bigger screen, we're likely looking at a device that can't spare a PENNY of its thickness- because that thickness will add weight, and kids need to be able to lug this thing around. If the cooling system needs to AT LEAST as big as the original Nintendo Switch, which seems likely, while the length and width are destined to increase by some amount, I just don't see where the redundant space could be found, balancing the need for it to be light enough to be comfortable with its inherent size. Either you get a sleek device, sleek being relative, wherein Nintendo Switch (HAC-001) meets our standards, with a fixed backplate, OR you get a bulky, plastic-imbued brick with a removable plate.
Oh, and finally, this thing uses Joy-Con-like controllers and a dock, right? Why not have special editions that include a dock and a Joy-Con (2.0) pair? Honestly that's what I expected them to do for Nintendo Switch, and I'm still quite baffled they didn't go with it.
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Sol
Moblin
I also want to see past big 3rd party games that the Switch already missed out on come to the Switch 2.
Elden Ring, Baldur's Gate 3, Armored Core VI, Cyberpunk, RE 4 Remake, etc.
Ghostsonplanets
Ghost in the Sales
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Early this year. April, to be more specific. TSMC basically confirming that N4/N5 family will be mainstream/cheaper nodes starting from next year. AKA: They expect N5 family to be used for more commodity devices rather than premium ones due to failing wafer prices and node maturity.
The article only suggested they would integrate their display business. Here is another article quoting
"Today we hear a report from Taiwan that Innolux's chairman Tuan Hsing-chien has resigned from his roles at Innolux, and will head to Sharp to help integrate the two display makers. "
Sharp and Innolux to integrate their display business - with a focus on IGZO and OLEDs | OLED Info
A few weeks after Sharp agreed to sell a two-thirds stake to Foxconn (Hon Hai Precision) for $3.5 billion, the Taiwanese company is starting to integrate Sharp's display business with Innolux, Foxconn Taiwanese display arm.Innolux AMOLED prototype, 2012Today we hear a report from Taiwan that...
www.oled-info.com
Even if they never fully integrated, they are not entirely separate as they are both owned by Foxconn.
But yea, maybe a stretch that the Sharp rumour was about Nintendo Innolux panels.
Edit: Here is another article about Sharp and Innolux working together. May not be that much of a stretch.
Innolux to back Sharp OLEDs - Taipei Times
Bringing Taiwan to the World and the World to Taiwan
www.taipeitimes.com
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OP
OP
There are rumours about Nintendo starting mass production in late 2023 (here, here, and here). So a 1H 2024 launch is still possible.
kopite7kimi mentioned that TSMC's 4N process node is based on TSMC's N5P process node.
But Dylan Patel said that die shots (presumably ones hidden behind a paywall [e.g. TechInsights]) show TSMC's 4N process node is a custom variation of TSMC's N4 process node.
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Teal'c
Shriekbat
I mean, the question is what Nintendo knew in 2019 when they started working on Drake.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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That's the kind of bravery I respect.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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Most likely, given who they are and who they work with.
Nvidia's N4 still seems by far the most likely process.
Uncle Squingis
Shriekbat
I think this is the most likely outcome. Put Mario first, then give Metroid the spotlight immediately after.
I was thinking about the rumored BotW demo with no load times, and it made me think open world Mario could work quite well if they filled the world with warp pipes or launch stars. It would also make sense given the long dev cycle they've had. Even if it's not open world, it's going to be an ambitious title.
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D
Deleted member 3433
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Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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A high price and less appealing design could dampen that, but let's hope!
Ghostsonplanets
Ghost in the Sales
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TSMC gives guidance for this every year and Nvidia would be keenly aware of their roadmap. If Nintendo was always targetting a 2024 launch, they would have know that N5 family would be cheap by then. Would make sense for them to make such a big chip if it was supposed to be fabbed on a very dense and power efficient node from start.
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Paraspikey
Boo
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If we're meant to take this literally, wouldn't this imply no reveal until September? If we're only going to start seeing developers confirm a Switch 2 launch in 12-18 months, that implies that a reveal wouldn't be until then, no? Developers confirmed their games would be on the NX and the Switch before it's release. I'm not entirely sure why people are now thinking he means this is when the release window is.
Despite my own speculation, though, a September launch is my expectation. I'm just not sure why people are jumping the gun, assuming this means this is when it releases when, if anything, it implies we won't see anything until next September, at least if we were to take it literally.
I think they meant to say something like "within the next 12-18 months", it doesn't make much sense for a developer to hold off on announcing their stuff UNTIL it launches.
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