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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

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The least favourite sibling gets the left joycon for Mario kart. Enjoy stretching your fingers over to the middle of the controller to hit "A", Gerald, you little shit.
 
Bowser Sr. said:
I kinda feel like Switch 2 WILL need a joycon and a dock design that do look suitably different from the current look, for the sake of making it easily visually distinct as a new console to the mass market. Like the screen will look about the same since there's only so many ways you can make a rectangle with a screen look different, so the burden of V I S U A L I D E N T I T Y kinda falls on the joycons.
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A joycon redesign is what I'm really curious about. What will that look like? Will Nintendo just add a curve to each side and call it a day?

One idea I had was that maybe they could make them curved sort of like a butterfly, which if colored correctly, could almost look like a 2 when held up next to each other. But that's not much.

I'm kinda leaning towards the idea that they'll mostly just change the colors on the front. Maybe it's time for something more complex than a single color? Patterns like zigzags, stripes, and polka dots could be fun. The joycons could store their designs as vector assets instead of simple color codes, which the OS could then render at whatever resolution a game wanted, so in-game joycon models could still show the player's actual joycons. Patterns could also make a lot of sense for the launch models now that gray and white have already been taken.

But tbh, they'd probably still want to change the silhouette. I don't like a lot of the options they have for that.
 
zestycrouton said:
Yeah, a lot of these fake Switch 2 designs seem to be forgetting that the joycon are supposed to be detachable and work independently as controllers. Many of these hypothetical designs wouldn't function that way, or else would be really clunky and awkward.
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Or even that they need to be light and slimline enough to be reasonably portable and fit in a bag/case. Some mock-ups look comfortable to use, but a pain to carry.

themagpieswarble said:
Agreed. Which bums me out because I wish the joycons were more ergonomic as a whole set. I almost never detach to play with one joycon as a single controller. Wonder if a lot of people do ...
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It's not how I usually play, but it's been useful if I want to give my cousins' kids a go of Mario Kart - they have little kid hands, and it saves me carrying around a heap of extra joy cons.

Also, if the number of people trying to play Smash exceeds my number of joy con pairs, it can be nice to have the flexibility.
 
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themagpieswarble said:
Agreed. Which bums me out because I wish the joycons were more ergonomic as a whole set. I almost never detach to play with one joycon as a single controller. Wonder if a lot of people do ...
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This is just a personal anecdote, but my nephews and a lot of their friends own a Switch, and they play this way all the time. It's very easy for them to transition from playing alone in handheld mode to handing over a Joy-Con to a friend and play in tabletop mode. I think a substantial number of people are underestimating the use of a single Joy-Con, and I don't foresee Nintendo wanting to move away from that capability. But I'm usually wrong about these sort of things, so...
 
Drake, as in the conceptual next Nintendo console (a misnomer), did not being development in 2019. And neither did Drake, as in the T239 SoC whose codename is actually "Drake." What began in 2019 was Nvidia's efforts to develop technology that would/will eventually be used in a new Nintendo console.

oldpuck said:
Grubb: “Hey, Marketing Person at NoA. How you doing?”

Source: “It’s tough! Trying to keep engagement up when you’re at the end of the gen is hard. Summer of Play is getting a good response but I’m having to travel for that and I’ve not seen my own bed in a month.”

Grubb: “That’s rough. Fall is looking alright for you? Any surprises?”

Source: “Obviously we’re going to do the direct, I’ve got translators booked for that but no idea what’s in it. But before that we’re probably going to drop Prime Echoes like I told you about before. Other than that, not much - were doing a Zelda thing but it’s not, like, Tears related at all - so no next gen announcement if that’s what you’re asking, lol”

Grubb: “I was trying to be subtle, haha. Alright man, I gotta run do the podcast. I’ll be in LA when summer of play swings through. In-n-Out?”

Source: “Absolutely”

I’m not saying it is the damn LEGO set, I’m just saying it could be literally anything. It's almost definitely not a game, because the fall slate is looking pretty good, so why drop a Zelda game within 6 months of Tears? Grubb told us he's got no idea what it is, so I think it's weird that folks would say Grubb would never report it if it were this or that.
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Bold of you to assume (theoretically) that Grubb has sources at Nintendo.
 
I feel like a lot of these mockups with "better" ergonomics and the inclusion of a D-pad forget that the Switch 2 will most likely still be a system where you can hand someone a singular Joy-Con and have them use it as a full controller.
 
ILikeFeet said:
a new system wouldn't be in the firmware however
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It is, but it's much less direct than what was the case with Copper, Iowa, Hoag, Calcio, and Aula.
e.g. The kernel supports mapping a DTB into your address space via svc::QueryIoMapping. However on NX this is completely unused since NX does not use device trees, thus this must for some other platform/device, indicating such a platform/device exists.
 
ZachyCatGames said:
It is, but it's much less direct than what was the case with Copper, Iowa, Hoag, Calcio, and Aula.
e.g. The kernel supports mapping a DTB into your address space via svc::QueryIoMapping. However on NX this is completely unused since NX does not use device trees, thus this must for some other platform/device, indicating such a platform/device exists.
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I just had chatgpt break down what you said. Quoting from Chatgpt here

"

Sure, let me break it down for you in simpler terms:

A kernel is the central part of an operating system. It directly interacts with the hardware of the computer, and provides services for the rest of the operating system, like file handling, memory management, and device control.

Mapping a DTB (Device Tree Blob) is like creating a guide or map for the system. The DTB is a data structure that describes the hardware components of a system (like what devices are part of the system, how they are connected, etc.). So, mapping a DTB is essentially making this information available to the system.

Address space refers to the range of addresses that the system can use. It's like the total area that a system has for storing data and instructions.

svc::QueryIoMapping is a function (a piece of reusable code) provided by the system, in this case, the kernel. This function allows you to request the kernel to map a DTB into the address space.

So, to put it all together in simple terms:

"The kernel, which is the core part of the operating system, has a feature that lets you map or 'lay out' a description of the system's hardware (the DTB) in your system's memory. This is done through a function called svc::QueryIoMapping."
 
There was a ton of talk about TSMC 5nm+ being the only node that made sense for the Switch 2, but it seems semi-possible that maybe Samsung's 5nm+++ nodes are energy efficient enough to work for Switch 2.

No one uses these chips so it's hard to tell, but the Switch 2 isn't releasing for a while still.

The rumor list still has:

"23 December 2022 → FamiBoards: One of the files in the illegal Nvidia leaks defined Samsung as the semiconductor foundry company being used for T239 (here, here, here, and here), which makes the likelihood of Nintendo and Nvidia choosing Samsung as the semiconductor foundry company of choice for fabricating Drake fairly likely."
 
ZachyCatGames said:
It is, but it's much less direct than what was the case with Copper, Iowa, Hoag, Calcio, and Aula.
e.g. The kernel supports mapping a DTB into your address space via svc::QueryIoMapping. However on NX this is completely unused since NX does not use device trees, thus this must for some other platform/device, indicating such a platform/device exists.
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QueryIOMapping has been in the firmware since 10.x.
 
LiC said:
But you can just ask the poster (or someone else who understands it) to explain, instead of crossing your fingers and hoping you get some correct sentences from a statistical text predictor.
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was any of it inaccurate? I find gtp to be pretty good at these things most of the time.

But yea, could have done that. But it would have taken up somebody else's time.
 
YugamiSekai said:
I feel like a lot of these mockups with "better" ergonomics and the inclusion of a D-pad forget that the Switch 2 will most likely still be a system where you can hand someone a singular Joy-Con and have them use it as a full controller.
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I'd be down with a hybrid D-Pad where the buttons are physically seperate but stretch in towards the middle of the diamond, like a Playstation D-Pad without the pivot.
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
There was a ton of talk about TSMC 5nm+ being the only node that made sense for the Switch 2, but it seems semi-possible that maybe Samsung's 5nm+++ nodes are energy efficient enough to work for Switch 2.

No one uses these chips so it's hard to tell, but the Switch 2 isn't releasing for a while still.

The rumor list still has:

"23 December 2022 → FamiBoards: One of the files in the illegal Nvidia leaks defined Samsung as the semiconductor foundry company being used for T239 (here, here, here, and here), which makes the likelihood of Nintendo and Nvidia choosing Samsung as the semiconductor foundry company of choice for fabricating Drake fairly likely."
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Considering thr quality of Samsung nodes, we'd be better off on TSMC 6nm

Concernt said:
Eh, the new system's FEATURES have been in the firmware for ages and ages, from next gen patches, to resolutions, to data speeds and memory bus.
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That has yet to be the case for Switch games though
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
"23 December 2022 → FamiBoards: One of the files in the illegal Nvidia leaks defined Samsung as the semiconductor foundry company being used for T239 (here, here, here, and here), which makes the likelihood of Nintendo and Nvidia choosing Samsung as the semiconductor foundry company of choice for fabricating Drake fairly likely."
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I think its still very much on the table. Since we do not know for sure what it will be, many of us here are hopeful for 4N and it makes a lot of sense since the RTX40 cards are all done on 4N. The Nvidia leak does point to Samsung though, so it certainly shouldnt be dismissed. The energy efficiency and density is good enough to git the bill. Clock speeds will be lower than they would be at 4N, but still good enough to be well north of base PS4.

ILikeFeet said:
Considering thr quality of Samsung nodes, we'd be better off on TSMC 6nm
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Unless Samsung is giving they a tremendous deal. Samsung has been playing second fiddle to TSMC and could probably use a big win. Even if margins are low for Samsung with Drake, it will be tens of millions of units with the possibility of it going over a hundred million units. Who knows, perhaps the poor yields back in 2021 for Samsung 5nm were an additional contributing factor for Nintendo to pump the brakes on bringing Redacted to market. In 2024 when yields are north of 85% along with an aggressive deal from Samnsung, and it can start to make a lot of sense.
 
ILikeFeet said:
Considering thr quality of Samsung nodes, we'd be better off on TSMC 6nm
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Goodtwin said:
Unless Samsung is giving they a tremendous deal. Samsung has been playing second fiddle to TSMC and could probably use a big win. Even if margins are low for Samsung with Drake, it will be tens of millions of units with the possibility of it going over a hundred million units. Who knows, perhaps the poor yields back in 2021 for Samsung 5nm were an additional contributing factor for Nintendo to pump the brakes on bringing Redacted to market. In 2024 when yields are north of 85% along with an aggressive deal from Samnsung, and it can start to make a lot of sense.
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I may be misremembering, but hasn't it been established that Samsung nodes are not that far from equivalent TSMC nodes for low-powered devices?
Samsung nodes are way worse for data centers or desktops which target max clocks, or for phones which work in short bursts at max clocks.
But for a device like the Switch with sustained performance at half the max clocks at most, it's not that bad.
 
zestycrouton said:
Yeah, a lot of these fake Switch 2 designs seem to be forgetting that the joycon are supposed to be detachable and work independently as controllers. Many of these hypothetical designs wouldn't function that way, or else would be really clunky and awkward.
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I think some people just don't care about that part and prefer to design what they wish Joy-Cons were, which is more of what the Horis of the world gets up to.
 
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DariliumA said:
Probably 2030 for the next big mainline one, I can see another smaller title like 2D or remaster in 2026.
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We will probably see a remake of a mainline Zelda game before we see the next big one. My curiosity is this, how would Nintendo use RT to improve game play mechanics? Has RT ever been used in a game as a mechanic to improve gameplay? I do appreciate improved visuals but at times I don't find RT to be worth using if it affects performance and often times than not I felt that RT in this current console gen not worth using at all.
 
Cybergatuno said:
I may be misremembering, but hasn't it been established that Samsung nodes are not that far from equivalent TSMC nodes for low-powered devices?
Samsung nodes are way worse for data centers or desktops which target max clocks, or for phones which work in short bursts at max clocks.
But for a device like the Switch with sustained performance at half the max clocks at most, it's not that bad.
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Samsung nodes are pulling more watts at a given clock speed, so it limits the potential clock speeds for an SOC that will probably be consuming around 5 watts in portable mode and around 10-12 watts in docked mode. Power draw doesnt scale in a linear fashion, so you are probably correct that in portable mode where power draw is kept low for battery life, the performance deficit for Samsung 5nm compared to TSMC 4N wont be huge, but as power draw goes up for docked mode, we could see the performance gap widen considerably, I believe estimates were around 35-40%.
 
Quailman said:
We will probably see a remake of a mainline Zelda game before we see the next big one. My curiosity is this, how would Nintendo use RT to improve game play mechanics? Has RT ever been used in a game as a mechanic to improve gameplay? I do appreciate improved visuals but at times I don't find RT to be worth using if it affects performance and often times than not I felt that RT in this current console gen not worth using at all.
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Traditional lightning techniques can look almost as good, but it takes untold man hours to get there. RT can significantly reduce budgets and dev cycles.
 
Rumours that the PS5 is getting a sale here in the UK down to £400 (looks like 15% off)

I imagine it would be a risk to have the successor be more expensive than the PS5
 
BloodMoon said:
Rumours that the PS5 is getting a sale here in the UK down to £400 (looks like 15% off)

I imagine it would be a risk to have the successor be more expensive than the PS5
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People keep bringing this up but at the time of its release, the Switch was more expensive than the PS4 Slim.
 
Hermii said:
Traditional lightning techniques can look almost as good, but it takes untold man hours to get there. RT can significantly reduce budgets and dev cycles.
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And a fuck load of processing power.

Knowing Nintendo, they would probably use RT for some stuff, and conventional techniques in other areas. It would depend I think more about the look, and art style they’re going for than simply, “this’ll be cheaper, and faster for us.”
 
Hermii said:
was any of it inaccurate? I find gtp to be pretty good at these things most of the time.

But yea, could have done that. But it would have taken up somebody else's time.
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In general, asking an LLM a question you don't already know the answer to is unlikely to be productive. They don't understand things, it's just probabilistically stringing words together. Sometimes they may coincidentally land on a correct answer, but you have no way of knowing if that happened if you're genuinely asking the question.

If you need someone to clarify something, just ask. Device trees are a standardized way to describe the hardware available in a system and how the kernel should communicate with it. As said above, the Switch doesn't use one, but the firmware recently got support for leveraging them. This is part of what's been discussed in this thread in the past about how the last several firmware updates have been adding a bunch of new features which don't, and in some cases can't, seem to do anything on current hardware.
 
Quailman said:
We will probably see a remake of a mainline Zelda game before we see the next big one. My curiosity is this, how would Nintendo use RT to improve game play mechanics? Has RT ever been used in a game as a mechanic to improve gameplay? I do appreciate improved visuals but at times I don't find RT to be worth using if it affects performance and often times than not I felt that RT in this current console gen not worth using at all.
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as long as they hit their performance targets, what is loss in performance doesn't matter

Shoulder said:
And a fuck load of processing power.

Knowing Nintendo, they would probably use RT for some stuff, and conventional techniques in other areas. It would depend I think more about the look, and art style they’re going for than simply, “this’ll be cheaper, and faster for us.”
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they'll use as much RT as they can fit into their rendering budget. and that's quite scalable. RT doesn't inherently change the look, it's a method of rendering, not an art style
 
bellydrum said:
I did. How does apbmisc_base or SD express mode relate to Redacted?
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The code was updated to not unmap the apbmisc_base registers on T239, a.k.a. Drake, a.k.a. the SoC for Redacted.

It's not immediately clear what apbmisc_base is (quick google search more or less just returns various versions of this code), but the commit message suggests that it is needed for SD Express support, the newest and fastest (but also very immature) SD card interface.
 
Report by Tom Henderson:

keytogaming.com

PlayStation 5 Pro ‘Project Trinity’ Details And Release Date

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Although the Pro's specs were difficult to pin down, admittingly due to my lack of technological prowess, sources have stated that Trinity with have 30 WGP and 18000mts memory.

As for the consoles performance targets and as to be expected, the PlayStation 5 Pro will be targeting improved and consistent FPS at 4K resolution, a new 'performance mode' for 8K resolution, and accelerated ray tracing.

Whether or not a PlayStation 5 Pro console is desired enough in the current market remains to be seen, but as of writing, the PlayStation 5 Pro is in development and is targeting a November 2024 release date.
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Trinity appears to be PlayStation’s last bits of major hardware for this generation and after reporting on almost everything from the DualSense Edge Controller (via Try Hard Guides), to Project Q and PlayStation’s new wireless earbuds (via Insider Gaming), the next time you hear on a PlayStation hardware report from me will likely be on the PlayStation 6 – Which is currently targeting a 2028 release date.
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They've got a great track record concerning Sony's hardware.


We're officially in the timeline where the release date for the PlayStation 5 Pro is more concrete than Nintendo's next-gen console
 
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