StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

[Bosintang]

The physics engine (or at least, the extent of it) in BotW is a good example of something that new hardware enabled. And things like that are and will continue to be made possible -- or at least expanded in scope -- by new hardware. But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about gameplay concepts that can move a franchise like 3D Mario forward. "Lots of physics objects" is not a new gameplay concept, and the fact that Link has momentum and ragdolls around in BotW isn't what makes the game what it is.

Lots of physics can be a new gameplay concept. "Am I going to cross this river by cutting a tree? Stacking stones? Using this metal piece, my magnet, and a bit of troll physics?"

It's just that Nintendo killed the potentially endless possibilities offered by their strong physics simulation by giving us a parachute and making every surface climbable. In the end, the physics in botw became mostly just a nice little thing for funny YouTube videos and random testing, but it was rarely part of the gameplay except in some of the shrines.

But there are still glimpses of what could have been here and there, in eventide island or in the dlc for example. I personally have the feeling that the next Zelda isn't going to be a real progress in that direction, unfortunately.

 

[Nux]

Not strictly a hardware related question, but are people in here expecting Drake releases to be separate from Switch releases?

For example I’m personally hoping for just one version of TotK that works across both systems, and likewise for other games going forwards.

 

[Hermii]

Not strictly a hardware related question, but are people in here expecting Drake releases to be separate from Switch releases?

For example I’m personally hoping for just one version of TotK that works across both systems, and likewise for other games going forwards.

I agree. I believe it will work like a pro console/ ms smart delivery in that regard but you never know.

 

[Pokemaniac]

Not strictly a hardware related question, but are people in here expecting Drake releases to be separate from Switch releases?

For example I’m personally hoping for just one version of TotK that works across both systems, and likewise for other games going forwards.

Personally, I'm not expecting separate Switch and Drake releases for games that support both.

That said, it should be noted that we have very little information on this subject, so it's mostly speculation.

 

[9-Volt]

Not strictly a hardware related question, but are people in here expecting Drake releases to be separate from Switch releases?

For example I’m personally hoping for just one version of TotK that works across both systems, and likewise for other games going forwards.

Only for third party. Currently there are no indications that Nintendo will do Drake exclusive titles. They'll be enhanced for it but still be on base Switch too.

 

[Zaimokuza]

Not strictly a hardware related question, but are people in here expecting Drake releases to be separate from Switch releases?

For example I’m personally hoping for just one version of TotK that works across both systems, and likewise for other games going forwards.

A release like that would either just be the switch version on drake with a flag to enable higher resolution/frame rate or better effects or it would have to duplicate assets and textures.

The best scenario would be a smart delivery like mechanism that redownloads the entire game but made for drake, using the cartridge just as a drm check. That said, even drake should have a low amount of storage (128GB?) meaning that it wouldn't be ideal.

I'd prefer separated releases

 

[Terrell]

All generational leaps have yielded diminishing returns since N64 to GameCube, so even if that were true of the upcoming jump, it wouldn't be comparable in practical impact on games. But I think Wii to Wii U will still beat it out, both in terms of practical difference (most obvious in going from SD to HD) and even raw numbers (such as going from 80 MB of RAM to 1 GB available for games).

For the record, 1080p at best to 4K/2160p sounds pretty damn big to me, bigger than the jump from 480i (GameCube) to 480p (Wii) to 720p (Wii U) to 1080p at best (Switch). "SD" to "HD" is so vague, but looking at average resolution numbers of actual released first-party titles, this is the first time since the N64 to GameCube that screen resolution has doubled across hardware cycles. It may not get there in absolute raw performance, but I don't consider it relevant whether this achievement is by raw performance or a "trick" performed by hardware acceleration, because weird hardware trickery has been part of hardware development broadly for decades (and will undoubtedly figure into the development of the next consoles from Microsoft and SIE).

And that's without mentioning the CPU gains (from 3 cores usable for games to allegedly 7), how Tensor cores can assist those CPU cores with AI calculations if there's any headroom there after DLSS (both of which should mean universally-applied and highly effective rollback netcode in future games, for one thing, since you wanted an example of gameplay improvements @karmitt ), significant ray tracing acceleration for minimized GPU hit on a portable device... it all kinda adds up to one of the biggest performance jumps on Nintendo hardware in 2 decades.

Not strictly a hardware related question, but are people in here expecting Drake releases to be separate from Switch releases?

For example I’m personally hoping for just one version of TotK that works across both systems, and likewise for other games going forwards.

Well, 2 separate SKUs at retail don't sound like a good idea to me, but we'll see how things go.

 

[Hermii]

A release like that would either just be the switch version on drake with a flag to enable higher resolution/frame rate or better effects or it would have to duplicate assets and textures.

The best scenario would be a smart delivery like mechanism that redownloads the entire game but made for drake, using the cartridge just as a drm check. That said, even drake should have a low amount of storage (128GB?) meaning that it wouldn't be ideal.

I'd prefer separated releases

How does the xbox do it? Duplicate assets?

 

[Hermii]

For the record, 1080p at best to 4K/2160p sounds pretty damn big to me, bigger than the jump from 480i (GameCube) to 480p (Wii) to 720p (Wii U) to 1080p at best (Switch). "SD" to "HD" is so vague, but looking at average resolution numbers of actual released first-party titles, this is the first time since the N64 to GameCube that screen resolution has doubled across hardware cycles. It may not get there in absolute raw performance, but I don't consider it relevant whether this achievement is by raw performance or a "trick" performed by hardware acceleration, because weird hardware trickery has been part of hardware development broadly for decades (and will undoubtedly figure into the development of the next consoles from Microsoft and SIE).

And that's without mentioning the CPU gains (from 3 cores usable for games to allegedly 7), how Tensor cores can assist those CPU cores with AI calculations if there's any headroom there after DLSS (both of which should mean universally-applied and highly effective rollback netcode in future games, for one thing, since you wanted an example of gameplay improvements @karmitt ), significant ray tracing acceleration for minimized GPU hit on a portable device... it all kinda adds up to one of the biggest performance jumps on Nintendo hardware in 2 decades.

Well, 2 separate SKUs at retail don't sound like a good idea to me, but we'll see how things go.

Honestly I dont really believe a lot of games will actually be 4k before I see it. Even after DLSS.

 

[Concernt]

Indeed, @ReddDreadtheLead is right, everything we learn about this new SoC, even it being a custom design no less, exceeded our low expectations. I know I came into this thread a year or so ago expecting an Xavier SoC variant. And if the goal was an iteration on Switch, IMO, an Xavier variant would have made a lot more sense. The only potential major disappointments left at this point are are clock speeds, I/O and maybe battery life.

I mean… have we not been talking about how Drake is looking to be the biggest leap in hardware from a prior hardware cycle since the N64-GameCube transition rather frequently ITT?

N64 just about broke the 1GFlop barrier, incredible performance for 1996, and was mainly limited by its storage format. Indeed, Wii only has about ten times as much RAM. GameCube by comparison eeked out not quite 10Gflops of performance, Wii about 15-20, but Wii U was a jump to 200-350Gflops, representing a MUCH bigger jump in raw power. However, since the jump from N64 to GCN, the power increases have resulted in diminishing returns as regards graphical fidelity.

 

[Concernt]

Honestly I dont really believe a lot of games will actually be 4k before I see it. Even after DLSS.

Nintendo's patents on AI upscaling describe their usecase as 720p to 4K, and I'd be shocked if many, if any, games fail to reach that 720p minimum before eating into the power requirements of DLSS. So I very much think the opposite, how COULDN'T games be 4K as standard when they're targeting Ultra Performance Mode at only 30 or 60 FPS?

 

[Hermii]

Nintendo's patents on AI upscaling describe their usecase as 720p to 4K, and I'd be shocked if many, if any, games fail to reach that 720p minimum before eating into the power requirements of DLSS. So I very much think the opposite, how COULDN'T games be 4K as standard when they're targeting Ultra Performance Mode at only 30 or 60 FPS?

Depends where devs will get the best tradeoff in perceived IQ, 720p to 4k reconstruction may not be ideal in every situation. A patent, and a working product are two completely different things (where is my supplemental computing device dammit!).

 

[ILikeFeet]

How does the xbox do it? Duplicate assets?

Smart delivery is just the console telling which version to download. So there aren't duplicated assets just two build options to download

 

[Hermii]

Smart delivery is just the console telling which version to download. So there aren't duplicated assets just two build options to download

But assuming the Xbox one version is on disc, there are 3 different patches for it? (One x, series s/x)? It doesn’t download the entire game if you have one of the above?

 

[ILikeFeet]

But assuming the Xbox one version is on disc, there are 3 different patches for it? (One x, series s/x)? It doesn’t download the entire game if you have one of the above?

I think for discs played on the series X, you still get the series version of the game unless you do some workarounds that are game specific. So regardless of how you get there, as long as you're on a series console, you get the series build

 

[ertaboy356b]

I think Nintendo should make every game moving forward Drake exclusive, make sure that the mistake during the 3DS era won't happen again. The N3DS potential wasn't used much considering it has 4x of everything. What a waste.

 

[Hermii]

I think for discs played on the series X, you still get the series version of the game unless you do some workarounds that are game specific. So regardless of how you get there, as long as you're on a series console, you get the series build

Yea, but my question was if there is a one s to series x patch, or if you download the entire file size.

There got to be plenty of code that’s common in every version of the game.

 

[Zaimokuza]

Yea, but my question was if there is a one s to series x patch, or if you download the entire file size.

There got to be plenty of code that’s common in every version of the game.

Realistically they reuse the code they wrote to automate delta updates on Windows but I've never had an xbox console nor am I interested in one, so I don't really know the details

 

[Concernt]

Depends where devs will get the best tradeoff in perceived IQ, 720p to 4k reconstruction may not be ideal in every situation. A patent, and a working product are two completely different things (where is my supplemental computing device dammit!).

DLSS is a much more modern, and much easier to implement, concept similar to SCD, since it quite literally uses supplementary computation.

As for res? I think it'll entirely depend on the dev, as you said, but the performance target will probably be 4K60 upscaled from 720-1080p. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe will probably use 1080p or even 1440p to 4K upscaled, while TOTK I'd bet will use 720p-1080p DRS range upscaling to 4K.

The image quality difference between 720p to 4K versus 1080p to 1440p wouldn't be ultra significant, and if a dev is DESPERATE for a 1080p source image, they could still do 1080p to 1440p DLSS + 1440p to 4K spacial reconstruction.

Due to this device's capability, and indeed, FOCUS, on upscaling techniques, I believe there are few if ANY excuses to not have a half-decent 4K reconstruction going on. The only exception might be games where reaction time matters so much that this extended reconstruction is detrimental, but fighting games and the like tend to be lighter titles, insofar as Ultimate's geometric detail is far from perfect because the focus is on a consistent 1080p60.

That said, any games on Switch which currently run at 1080p60 on Switch should run on the Drake Switch with a consistent 4K60- It's possible that Mario Kart 8 Deluxe and Smash Bros. go this route.

 

[Concernt]

But assuming the Xbox one version is on disc, there are 3 different patches for it? (One x, series s/x)? It doesn’t download the entire game if you have one of the above?

Smart Delivery is the model I fully expect Nintendo to take with this device. When you install an Xbox One disk that has a Series X version, barring exceptions like COD, the version installed is entirely downloaded, the disk is just a validation token. With Smart Delivery, ONLY the version for YOUR console is kept installed unless you intentionally disconnect it from the internet while installing from disk; in which case you'll get the Xbox One version installed and playable through backwards compatibility, but once you update it, it'll uninstall that version and install the Series X version.

This is about as smooth and optimised an experience as cross gen can be, and since I expect Drake to be positioned as less "next gen" and more "new, better Switch", I don't see how they could get away with doing it any other way. Many games on Xbox One X, PS4 Pro, Gameboy Color and New Nintendo 3DS don't even bother with separate versions at all, and simply have more features, or resolution, or performance, than the same game played on an Xbox One S/PS4/GB/2DS.

Edit: Due to storage limitations on a portable and the prevelance of physical media in the Switch ecosystem, I expect them to use the New Nintendo 3DS and Xbox One X approach of enhancements applied from patches for a lot of games. We already know Switch can patch together (pun not intended) a game split across its internal storage and Game Card interface. I'd say like New 3DS, games released after release with Drake in mind will probably have these "patches" already on the card, basically "if you're a Drake unit or above, use these textures, here's the RT data, and these resolution settings, otherwise, ignore this section."

 

[Link_enfant]

Smart Delivery is the model I fully expect Nintendo to take with this device. When you install an Xbox One disk that has a Series X version, barring exceptions like COD, the version installed is entirely downloaded, the disk is just a validation token. With Smart Delivery, ONLY the version for YOUR console is kept installed unless you intentionally disconnect it from the internet while installing from disk; in which case you'll get the Xbox One version installed and playable through backwards compatibility, but once you update it, it'll uninstall that version and install the Series X version.

This is about as smooth and optimised an experience as cross gen can be, and since I expect Drake to be positioned as less "next gen" and more "new, better Switch", I don't see how they could get away with doing it any other way. Many games on Xbox One X, PS4 Pro, Gameboy Color and New Nintendo 3DS don't even bother with separate versions at all, and simply have more features, or resolution, or performance, than the same game played on an Xbox One S/PS4/GB/2DS.

The issue is that having a downloaded version rather than playing from the cartridge will take a lot of space on the internal storage/SD card. I can't imagine most big games having both versions on the cartridge at the same time, so it'd imply a potentially big download either for old gen Switch or Drake users, which would ruin one of the main benefits of physical Switch games.
Of course this is a non issue for digital versions (in most if not all cases, one purchase should give you both), but I really wonder how Nintendo will deal with this.

 

[Dakhil]

Not strictly a hardware related question, but are people in here expecting Drake releases to be separate from Switch releases?

For example I’m personally hoping for just one version of TotK that works across both systems, and likewise for other games going forwards.

I think that depends on the publisher.

As for Nintendo, I expect at the very least most games to work on both the Nintendo Switch and Nintendo's new hardware.

 

[MP!]

I expect carts that have base switch game and a download patch for the drake versions

I mean that's almost how most games are anyway already, why would it be any different?

 

[Hermii]

I expect carts that have base switch game and a download patch for the drake versions

I mean that's almost how most games are anyway already, why would it be any different?

According to concert two posts above you, that’s not how Xbox work.There is no one s to series x patch, you have to download the entire damn game.

 

[Hermii]

I’m

Smart Delivery is the model I fully expect Nintendo to take with this device. When you install an Xbox One disk that has a Series X version, barring exceptions like COD, the version installed is entirely downloaded, the disk is just a validation token. With Smart Delivery, ONLY the version for YOUR console is kept installed unless you intentionally disconnect it from the internet while installing from disk; in which case you'll get the Xbox One version installed and playable through backwards compatibility, but once you update it, it'll uninstall that version and install the Series X version.

This is about as smooth and optimised an experience as cross gen can be, and since I expect Drake to be positioned as less "next gen" and more "new, better Switch", I don't see how they could get away with doing it any other way. Many games on Xbox One X, PS4 Pro, Gameboy Color and New Nintendo 3DS don't even bother with separate versions at all, and simply have more features, or resolution, or performance, than the same game played on an Xbox One S/PS4/GB/2DS.

Edit: Due to storage limitations on a portable and the prevelance of physical media in the Switch ecosystem, I expect them to use the New Nintendo 3DS and Xbox One X approach of enhancements applied from patches for a lot of games. We already know Switch can patch together (pun not intended) a game split across its internal storage and Game Card interface. I'd say like New 3DS, games released after release with Drake in mind will probably have these "patches" already on the card, basically "if you're a Drake unit or above, use these textures, here's the RT data, and these resolution settings, otherwise, ignore this section."

Is it different if say a game that previously ran through bc gets series support? I’m having a hard time believing they can’t just patch it in a lot of cases, not requiring you to reinstall the whole game.

 

[MP!]

According to concert two posts above you, that’s not how Xbox work.There is no one s to series x patch, you have to download the entire damn game.

well i meant switch carts ... but yeah that's weird... well not that weird... and I hope Nintendo has a good solution either way

 

[ILikeFeet]

I’m

Is it different if say a game that previously ran through bc gets series support? I’m having a hard time believing they can’t just patch it in a lot of cases, not requiring you to reinstall the whole game.

that sounds like what Digital Foundry calls "backwards compatibility plus", where there's a third option for series/ps5 that offers higher bounds than a One X or PS4 Pro would have, but it's still the One/PS4 build of the game

 

[Hermii]

I kn

that sounds like what Digital Foundry calls "backwards compatibility plus", where there's a third option for series/ps5 that offers higher bounds than a One X or PS4 Pro would have, but it's still the One/PS4 build of the game

i knew Sony didn’t, but I really thought MS had a solution to patch in native support.

But if they don’t, then I doubt Nintendo will figure it out and imo dedicated Drake SKUs sounds like the most likely option for physical games.

 

[My Tulpa]

I think Nintendo should make every game moving forward Drake exclusive, make sure that the mistake during the 3DS era won't happen again. The N3DS potential wasn't used much considering it has 4x of everything. What a waste.

They are going to sell 20+ million Tx1+ Switch consoles this year right before Drake launches. What you are suggesting is just not reality.


The ps4 was already down to ~13 million being sold that year right before the ps5 dropped. And even they can’t commit to making 20% of their output ps5 exclusive, let alone 100% lol

 

[kimbo99]

And of course, how Nintendo presents the new hardware to third party developers isn't necessarily how Nintendo's going to present the new hardware to consumers.

This has always been my take, but also my concern. How on earth can they build upon or equal the success of the Switch without breaking the line? Nintendo has yet to have a successor in their console or handheld line that had maintained or surpassed success unless they hugely innovated on the previous line.

GBA --> DS, no need to tell the story here. DS was a huge increase but was pure innovation
DS --> 3DS, we know what happened

GCN --> Wii, huge success with innovation
Wii --> Wii U, we all know the story here.

I work in Sales and know that Marketing to your B2B fellows is important, and I think what we currently know about Switch 2 will get those B2B fellows on board. The real unknown is, what innovation does Nintendo have up it's sleeve to continue the Switch's success to Consumers?


Perhaps I am overthinking this, and a simple Switch 2 moniker with similar functionality, just stronger performance and more reliable controllers/internet and throw in some other features for a little 'razzle dazzle' will do the trick to continue the success of the Switch line.

 

[Pokemaniac]

Yea, but my question was if there is a one s to series x patch, or if you download the entire file size.

There got to be plenty of code that’s common in every version of the game.

I could be wrong, but my understanding is that the two builds of the game are entirely separate and the console just picks the appropriate one to install. I think, in principle, it is possible to include both versions on the disc, but I don't know how common that is. If it's just the Xbox One version, then I believe it does just download the whole game.

I’m

Is it different if say a game that previously ran through bc gets series support? I’m having a hard time believing they can’t just patch it in a lot of cases, not requiring you to reinstall the whole game.

There's a separate thing where games running in Xbox One mode can detect that they're running on Xbox Series and adjust accordingly, but I think going fully native means redownloading the whole game.

A release like that would either just be the switch version on drake with a flag to enable higher resolution/frame rate or better effects or it would have to duplicate assets and textures.

The best scenario would be a smart delivery like mechanism that redownloads the entire game but made for drake, using the cartridge just as a drm check. That said, even drake should have a low amount of storage (128GB?) meaning that it wouldn't be ideal.

I'd prefer separated releases

Smart Delivery is the model I fully expect Nintendo to take with this device. When you install an Xbox One disk that has a Series X version, barring exceptions like COD, the version installed is entirely downloaded, the disk is just a validation token. With Smart Delivery, ONLY the version for YOUR console is kept installed unless you intentionally disconnect it from the internet while installing from disk; in which case you'll get the Xbox One version installed and playable through backwards compatibility, but once you update it, it'll uninstall that version and install the Series X version.

This is about as smooth and optimised an experience as cross gen can be, and since I expect Drake to be positioned as less "next gen" and more "new, better Switch", I don't see how they could get away with doing it any other way. Many games on Xbox One X, PS4 Pro, Gameboy Color and New Nintendo 3DS don't even bother with separate versions at all, and simply have more features, or resolution, or performance, than the same game played on an Xbox One S/PS4/GB/2DS.

Edit: Due to storage limitations on a portable and the prevelance of physical media in the Switch ecosystem, I expect them to use the New Nintendo 3DS and Xbox One X approach of enhancements applied from patches for a lot of games. We already know Switch can patch together (pun not intended) a game split across its internal storage and Game Card interface. I'd say like New 3DS, games released after release with Drake in mind will probably have these "patches" already on the card, basically "if you're a Drake unit or above, use these textures, here's the RT data, and these resolution settings, otherwise, ignore this section."

Xbox Smart Delivery is a good solution compared to Sony's "just release the game twice, lol" approach, but it only really makes sense if you're in an environment where every game has to be installed anyway, and the offline experience is something that's only supported begrudgingly. The approach makes some pretty stark trade-offs, and it's not really appropriate for a hybrid console. For Drake, I'd expect Nintendo to try to allow the reuse of as much data between the versions as possible, in order to better fit both of them on cartridges, leading to two main ideas for how they'd handle it:

• Nintendo goes with their historical approach of having a single build that differentiates entirely at runtime. This would minimize the wasted space, but would require a slight bit more technical overhead and make it so that downloading Drake assets will most likely be required, regardless of your hardware, for digital copies.
• The other approach is to have a special class of "patch" that includes Drake-specific data. This increases file size bloat, but would eliminate any potential overhead from runtime checks, and allow for some additional flexibility in what data gets installed. For additional data flexibility, they could even do a Switch-specific "patch" in addition to a Drake one.

I think either of those approaches could work well if Nintendo decides to go with them.

 

[Zaimokuza]

I could be wrong, but my understanding is that the two builds of the game are entirely separate and the console just picks the appropriate one to install. I think, in principle, it is possible to include both versions on the disc, but I don't know how common that is. If it's just the Xbox One version, then I believe it does just download the whole game.

There's a separate thing where games running in Xbox One mode can detect that they're running on Xbox Series and adjust accordingly, but I think going fully native means redownloading the whole game.


Xbox Smart Delivery is a good solution compared to Sony's "just release the game twice, lol" approach, but it only really makes sense if you're in an environment where every game has to be installed anyway, and the offline experience is something that's only supported begrudgingly. The approach makes some pretty stark trade-offs, and it's not really appropriate for a hybrid console. For Drake, I'd expect Nintendo to try to allow the reuse of as much data between the versions as possible, in order to better fit both of them on cartridges, leading to two main ideas for how they'd handle it:

• Nintendo goes with their historical approach of having a single build that differentiates entirely at runtime. This would minimize the wasted space, but would require a slight bit more technical overhead and make it so that downloading Drake assets will most likely be required, regardless of your hardware, for digital copies.
• The other approach is to have a special class of "patch" that includes Drake-specific data. This increases file size bloat, but would eliminate any potential overhead from runtime checks, and allow for some additional flexibility in what data gets installed. For additional data flexibility, they could even do a Switch-specific "patch" in addition to a Drake one.

I think either of those approaches could work well if Nintendo decides to go with them.

You only have to do the console version check once, I wouldn't say that's expensive. Sure, that means you, at worst, would need another level of indirection but come on, in 2022 no one is programming Rollercoaster Tycoon.

The problem with asset duplication is that Switch cartridges get really expensive really fast compared to blue rays and 4k textures take up a lot of space

 

[My Tulpa]

We didn't get those leaks because those products were already announced before they were shipped out to retailers and wholesalers.

The ps4 pro was announced 2 months before it released.

Shouldn’t something have leaked about the pro being mass produced/boxed/shipped/retailers making plans like…in like July or August?

So, I think we can say it’s possible for that stuff to not be disseminated much until 1-2 months before a launch of a new model of an existing system.

We could reeeeeally use some insider info right now...
On a side note: according to vgchartz, the switch is nearing 114mi units sold. November and December are peak months with iirc, more than double the average sold each month. I can totally see it surpassing the PS4 in mid~late December.

It will pass it sometime in November, I’m sure.

We would have much more leaks and infos from multiply sources if Drake hardware would be releasing in around one month

lol ok, how about around 2 months?

Let say Drake releases in March 2023. When do you expect these types of “leaks” then? Gotta be before January or February because you are saying that’s too late?

also, Nintendo would want to announce it at least around 2-3 months before launch like they were doing with every revision before,

That lead time for previous revisions had more to do with wanting to announce in June around E3 than about when the release date was. It’s not like they NEED 2-3 months buffer between announcement and release for a new model revision of an existing system.

Again, even if it’s a March 2023 release, they aren’t going to announce it till mid/late January at the earliest. That’s still a 1-2 month announcement to release scenario.

What you are describing as “usual” above is suggesting Nintendo is going to save the announcement for around the end of June for a fall 2023 launch…I think that’s way to late considering what we know about the development.

especially now because its basically next gen Switch hardware so they would want people know about it.

They won’t want people to see this new model as anything other than a device that plays the Switch library with better graphics/performance for those who are interested in that that.

At this point, we can say that launch or even announcement this year is not realistic option any more.

Probably true.

Counting that launch is 1st half of next year, announcement most likely will be January-February.

Ah, so you are imagining the new model will launch alongside ToTK. You certainly wouldn’t be suggesting it releasing after.

I don’t see why they would feel like they need to wait till May to release this new model. It doesn’t need ToTK to sell or be noticed. You would think they would want more new hardware in the hands of people by the time ToTK releases. (Assuming ToTK usage of the new hardware is significantly noticeable)

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

They are not gonna make a potential +20m seller exclusive to Drake, let alone in its first year or with the Mario IP.

I understand the advantages of cross-gen games, but it's not like they haven't repeatedly launched major Mario games the first year of most of their major hardware. They still ended up doing pretty decent numbers.

Not strictly a hardware related question, but are people in here expecting Drake releases to be separate from Switch releases?

For example I’m personally hoping for just one version of TotK that works across both systems, and likewise for other games going forwards.

If the versions are substantially the same, yeah, doing it like non-exclusive Game Boy Color games makes sense. If it's one of those miracle ports with enough distinct parts that it'd either end up shoving two unique versions on one game card or forcing a full-game download for the new hardware, separate might make sense.

 

[Deleted member 887]

The ps4 pro was announced 2 months before it released.

PS4 Pro was announced 6 months before release. Before E3, Sony put out a statement that said, yes, we have a PlayStation, yes, it runs 4k games, no, it will not have exclusives, yes we will continue to sell the classic PS4, yes it will cost more, no we're not showing it to you at E3, because the hardware is ready but we're patching games till the last minute and we don't have enough footage for you yet.

 

[Pokemaniac]

You only have to do the console version check once, I wouldn't say that's expensive. Sure, that means you, at worst, would need another level of indirection but come on, in 2022 no one is programming Rollercoaster Tycoon.

The problem with asset duplication is that Switch cartridges get really expensive really fast compared to blue rays and 4k textures take up a lot of space

It's not that the check itself is expensive, it's that its existence can limit the compiler's ability to optimize things that depend on it. Games, especially on console, typically have all their compiler driven optimization happen at build time rather than runtime, and the more information you have at that point in time, the better job it can do. It's hard to say how big of a problem this would be, but the Switch is not exactly a platform with an excess of performance.

Plus, as they say, the fastest code is that which does not run.

 

[ITSMILNER]

How long will Nintendo continue supporting Switch though? If this is seen as the successor to Switch, surely they need to drop OG Switch 2/3 years max after launch of Drake. It will be Nintendo games that sell Drake at the end of the day so the quicker they have exclusives the better.

 

[niconiconick64]

How long will Nintendo continue supporting Switch though? If this is seen as the successor to Switch, surely they need to drop OG Switch 2/3 years max after launch of Drake. It will be Nintendo games that sell Drake at the end of the day so the quicker they have exclusives the better.

1.5~2 years seems reasonable enough

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

How long will Nintendo continue supporting Switch though? If this is seen as the successor to Switch, surely they need to drop OG Switch 2/3 years max after launch of Drake. It will be Nintendo games that sell Drake at the end of the day so the quicker they have exclusives the better.

No good reason some things still couldn't support base Switch in 2029, unless their stats show less than 5% of people are still using one or whatever.

EDIT: Releases (not counting old ports) from the past few years that probably would've worked fine in a lesser mode for weaker hardware, if there was a "Switch 0" the current Switch was backwards compatible with and people were still buying for: Famicom Detective Club, WarioWare, Metroid Dread, Big Brain Academy, Advance Wars 1+2 if it it ever reappears.

 

[Gyemknight]

I'll be honest here is my take on the new switch.

1.) It will release in March or April next year with an announce in January.

2.) None of the games for 3-2 years from release will be drake exclusive.

3.) It will not be a next gen console, but a hardware iteration.

4.) The console will have some cool upgrades to it from the OG switch.

5.) It most likely won't release with a game but if it does, it will release with a 3d mario game.

p.s. If you don't agree with me I don't care because this is what is most likely going to happen and also it is my opinion so

 

[9-Volt]

How long will Nintendo continue supporting Switch though? If this is seen as the successor to Switch, surely they need to drop OG Switch 2/3 years max after launch of Drake. It will be Nintendo games that sell Drake at the end of the day so the quicker they have exclusives the better.

If this is a successor, it should be out in late 2024 or early 2025. Expect Switch to be supported +2 years after that. It'll likely be done around 2026-2027.

If Drake is a Pro iteration, it'll prolong Switch life by 2-2.5 years. So Switch will get support well into 2028.

 

[Pennington]

Devil's advocate: Perhaps Nintendo has a long-term strategy to alternate between smash hit consoles and 'flop' consoles. The console generations which don't do too well serve to increase demand for the next generation where Nintendo apparently rights the boat. They have the resources to weather the adverse conditions during the flop cycle. Humor me here.

 

[Truno]

What's the point of going all out on these specs if the console won't have any significant exclusives for years? Surely you don't need such a boost in power to run Switch games at a higher and more consistent fidelity

 

[RennanNT]

What's the point of going all out on these specs if the console won't have any significant exclusives for years? Surely you don't need such a boost in power to run Switch games at a higher and more consistent fidelity

Why do you think Halo, GoW and the vast majority of the games being released in the other consoles are cross-gen?

Nintendo have a 100+ million user base buying their games and it will take them 3 years to manufacture half as much consoles. It's to their benefit to keep selling software and maintaining engagement with the userbase which didn't upgrade until the console is readily available for those wanting to upgrade.

 

[Cybergatuno]

What's the point of going all out on these specs if the console won't have any significant exclusives for years? Surely you don't need such a boost in power to run Switch games at a higher and more consistent fidelity

Get more third-party support. Elden Ring, RDR2, Cyberpunk, COD are just examples that would print money for Nintendo.

For first-party, Patch BotW (or any game really) with high-quality assets, improve draw distances and make it 60fps, maybe with RT. A little hardware bump wouldn't be enough.

 

[Truno]

Why do you think Halo, GoW and the vast majority of the games being released in the other consoles are cross-gen?

Nintendo have a 100+ million user base buying their games and it will take them 3 years to manufacture half as much consoles. It's to their benefit to keep selling software and maintaining engagement with the userbase which didn't upgrade until the console is readily available for those wanting to upgrade.

So... Nintendo went out of its way to spend more money on specs when they could've accomplished the same (running Switch games better) for much less?

I'm fully in the camp that believes that this machine is the next-gen Nintendo console, but it'll have a longer cross-gen period with a couple of exclusives. Comparing this machine to the likes of the PS4 Pro or New Nintendo 3DS doesn't make much sense to me.

Get more third-party support. Elden Ring, RDR2, Cyberpunk, COD are just examples that would print money for Nintendo.

For first-party, Patch BotW (or any game really) with high-quality assets, improve draw distances and make it 60fps, maybe with RT. A little hardware bump wouldn't be enough.

Do you think that Nintendo's current customer base would be enticed by a console whose value proposition was, "enhanced Switch games and third party ports"? I know that enthusiasts would love this type of machine, but I don't see Nintendo spending so much money on this specific subset of the market.

 

[karmitt]

What's the point of going all out on these specs if the console won't have any significant exclusives for years? Surely you don't need such a boost in power to run Switch games at a higher and more consistent fidelity

If Nintendo does not need the new hardware to realize an idea, why would they restrict it to the new platform? We’re approaching year 3 for cross-gen titles on PS5/XSX; Third parties definitely could use the extra power given how they typically develop for other platforms, but Nintendo could easily and competently continue to develop great titles that play well enough on 2017 hardware. Maybe we stop seeing games hitting 1080p or 60fps on Switch?

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

If Nintendo does not need the new hardware to realize an idea, why would they restrict it to the new platform?

I think it unlikely that they will suddenly need it for most games 2 years after launch if they couldn't think of a single use for it up until then.

 

[Serif]

But Nintendo could easily and competently continue to develop great titles that play well enough on 2017 hardware. Maybe we stop seeing games hitting 1080p or 60fps on Switch?

I'm expecting more Bowser's Fury scenarios, where it ended up being 30 FPS handheld.

Hopefully the cutbacks would just be restricted to portable. Even though I'll probably own Drake by then, I'd have secondhand disappointment if Prime 4 weren't 60 FPS docked on original Switch, even if it has to be 720p 60.

 

[Pokemaniac]

What's the point of going all out on these specs if the console won't have any significant exclusives for years? Surely you don't need such a boost in power to run Switch games at a higher and more consistent fidelity

The point is that the exclusives will come, and to a larger initial install base than they otherwise would have gotten, while avoiding the sorts of development pipeline issues that Nintendo had in the Wii/DS -> Wii U/3DS transition by moving things over more gradually. The additional continuity of ecosystem also seems likely to help them retain their existing momentum goin into new hardware.