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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)
- Thread starter Dakhil
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CullenLX87
Cappy
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- He/Him
Playing a bit of Bayo 3 and 
. God, the new switch can’t come soon enough…
. God, the new switch can’t come soon enough…
manfromthedam
Semi Undercover Game Music Guy
Oh zoinks, that doesn't sound right at all. Kinda weird that I haven't read that in reviews so far. Might want to look into thermals for the models I was looking at, or: buying one, making it run Doom Eternal for a few hours to see if it holds up and maybe send it back if it throttles.
Thanks for the input! Not a fan of XSS because I also wanna play ye olde shooters like Unreal + Tournament + 2004, the Quakes and new Dooms with mouse and keyboard (or gyro, which XSS doesn't have).
Sigh... Switch 2 would've been perfect about now.
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Seeing a lot of Elden Ring responses, but I kind of think it might be beneficial to wait a bit longer on that one? The game already sold a ton, well beyond expectations and previous From sales. They might get more out of nostalgic double-dipping 2-3 years down. That’d be how long it would take for me to consider going back at least.
I think given 7R is older and has been locked up on PS this entire time, it’s a good candidate. New titles like RE4 Remake would be great as well.
So, thinking about the ARM thing a bit more, I think this substantially increases the chance Nintendo's next big upgrade after Drake will use an custom Nvidia-designed ARM core. This has seemed like a distinct possibility since the reference cores started dropping aarch32 and the Nvidia/ARM deal fell through, but if ARM is actually going to start locking down their reference cores, then it may be the only viable option to stick with the ISA.
OP
OP
Just to add, a custom derivation of Thor for Nintendo's next gen SoC (after Drake) is probably unlikely since Nvidia's confirmed that Thor's using Arm's Neoverse Poseidon AE design for the CPU.
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The bolded is what I find to be of particular note/very interesting. ORIN already supports UFS so it is possible that for a mobile device like this, they actually kept the UFS support. Not that they will, but it is possible they kept it for Drake since it already existed with the progenitor silicon.
D
Deleted member 887
Guest
I’m not sure that Poseidon is an awful choice. I’m a little unclear on what ARM’s future is for “constant perf” cores, and it might be the server arch replacing the C class cores.
But I don’t expect Thor anyway, because I suspect the timing would favor the Thor successor
Hartmann
Piranha Plant
Unrelated to the new model, Macronix expects demand for Nintendo next year to be about the same as this year.
money.udn.com
市場需求減緩 旺宏產能利用率調降逾2成 | 產業熱點 | 產業 | 經濟日報
因應市場需求減緩，旺宏產能利用率將調降20%至25%，今年資本支出也將下修至新台幣106億元，較原訂的140億元調降24...
Kevin
Chain Chomp
Unrelated to the new model, Macronix expects demand for Nintendo next year to be about the same as this year.
市場需求減緩 旺宏產能利用率調降逾2成 | 產業熱點 | 產業 | 經濟日報
因應市場需求減緩，旺宏產能利用率將調降20%至25%，今年資本支出也將下修至新台幣106億元，較原訂的140億元調降24...
I hope he is wrong. At this rate we won't get new hardware until Nintendo is basically forced to move on and that won't happen until consumers start moving on entirely.
kimbo99
Spirit Detective
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2024 is when I think we'll get it
When it comes to expandable storage, there's not really a significant backwards compatibility concern, especially when everything is encrypted per console to begin with. There's even already the concrete example of the New 3DS, which made the breaking change of switching from SD to micro SD, and that was on a system that was unambiguously of the same generation.
The reality of the situation is that SD is not unassailable. Quite the contrary, in fact. A faster SD standard hasn't really seen wide adoption since UHS-I ages ago, and it's far from clear that SD Express is finally going to be one to break their losing streak. Anything Nintendo picks for Drake that isn't the same old UHS-I is something that they'll be the primary adoption driver of in the near term, and frankly, some of the other options have some very appealing qualities in an environment like that, like how UFS card production could, on paper, ramp up super quickly.
Hardware makers aren't going to say anything that might reveal the details of partners. There is never change until there is
ShadowFox08
Paratroopa
Yeah it's going to go downhill from here.
Unlocked framerate makes thing easier for running on Drake..
Eldin Ring, some Cod game, Capcom games..
TheGreatMightyPoo
Like Like
Too late.
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So DF has confirmed that the PS5 uses 6.5 cores for games, and brought the closest comparison they can being the Ryzen 3600 at 4GHz (not 4.2, or 4.4GHz) to the PS5. However, noting that it has higher cache (32MB L3) so it’s a looser comparison.
That said, it lowers the CPU requirements needed a bit more.
As in, it’s not as high for games for the next gen systems and presumable Drake.
That said, it lowers the CPU requirements needed a bit more.
As in, it’s not as high for games for the next gen systems and presumable Drake.
ertaboy356b
Resident Troll
Most of these reviews are only like what? 2 days, or a month at most? Those are from the devices "prime". Give it a year or more and the device gradually turns to shit.
Edit: The only good gaming laptops in my experience are those with 17 inch screen because it is big enough to not overheat.
ezidro3
Moblin
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Frankly I’ve had no problems with my 14 inch G14 that has a 3060 in it. Played through Guardians of the Galaxy at 1080p60+ with ray tracing and DLSS on and it was flawless. Control with DF’s optimized settings at 1080p runs really great as well. Had it for over a year too at this point
Compromising the version most people will play for the benefit of unreleased hardware is a ridiculous idea.
It really surprises me the ps5 is using as many cores as the ps4 for OS. In reality that like 4 times more power.
Honestly thought they would get by with half a core or something.
ShadowFox08
Paratroopa
Lowers the bar by 7%. Interesting. If switch 2 uses 1.7 GHz for 7 cores towards gaming, single thread performance would be a little less than 2x in speed.
Just like the PS4.. heh.
is xbone ne and x series also using 6.5 for gaming?
Might not be the primary reason, but Yeah but it doesn't surprise me if devs used unlocked framerate for an easy boost for Drake without a patch needed. There were rumors of this for 2 years now. What else could they do... lock it to 30 fps?
Looks like Bayonetta 2 situation on Wii u, which wasn't even that bad to me. it was playable.
Yes. or if they absolutely want to futureproof, have a toggle in the settings.
Thraktor
"[✄]. [✄]. [✄]. [✄]." -Microsoft
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Thanks, I wasn't aware of that. Although I wouldn't say it really impacts my point any more than the existence of USB SD Express readers do. The SD Express slot would have been added with the intent to allow users to read files from SD Express devices like cameras, which don't exist. You could hypothetically use SD Express as a removable storage device for your laptop, but there's not much point when USB flash drives exist that are cheaper, faster and universally supported.
My assumption is that they would have accounted for this when setting out the initial specifications of the SoC, as if you've got a custom file decompression engine in silicon, you'll want to make sure that it has the performance necessary to not bottleneck your choice of storage. They would also want to make sure they have enough lanes for UFS, as if they were to use both eUFS as embedded storage and UFS cards, they'd either need additional lanes to support both, or add some kind of switch/multiplex onto the motherboard, which would increase cost and complexity.
Arguably CFexpress is simpler, as it's literally just a PCIe interface, which Drake will probably have excess of. TX1 has 4 lanes of PCIe 3.0 (I believe one of these is used for WiFi/Bluetooth in the Switch), and my guess is Drake will have 4 lanes of PCIe 4.0 (Orin has 22 lanes) even if Nintendo doesn't necessarily need them. A CFexpress Type A reader should be just a matter of wiring one of those PCIe lanes up to a socket.
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Orin chips come with 2 lanes for UFS already (or so I'm led to believe), so they could in theory go with eUFS 3.x and UFS Card 3.0 and each uses its own single lane. It all depends what the price difference is between eUFS 2.x and eUFS 3.x; if it's negligible, then they could do that. It's all about which ends up being the cheaper option, using eUFS 3.x or adding 3rd lane.
The major downside of CFExpress is its price, its size and how different sizes have different max speeds.
Most CFExpress cards on the market now are Type B (because that's what the cameras and video recorders use), while the smallest is Type A, but even the smallest size is twice the size of a microSD card, nearly 3 times the thickness and has a max speed of 1000MB/s, under the speed available to UFS Card 3.0. Type B is 2000MB/s, but it requires an additional PCIe lane to get there and is also 4 times the thickness of microSD and larger than a standard (as in non-micro) SD card.
And as for price, the cheapest I found was 128GB Type B for $100 on Amazon. Meanwhile, Samsung was selling a 256GB UFS Card 1 for $60.
You're not wrong about CFExpress having a similar ease of implementation, but it's other downsizes (bulkier and more expensive cards) make it the less than ideal choice, IMO.
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Does it really mean much? You seem to read into it "nothing is changing", but "we don't expect a big drop in year 7" could equally be a sign of a smooth transition.
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You're correct. Macronix supplies 3 CMOS flash chips for hardware. Otherwise, the entirety (and the overwhelming majority) of Macronix's business with Nintendo is Game Card chips. So all that report is effectively saying is "we expect Nintendo will require an equal amount of chips for game production". And considering how much software is being sold right now, that's not a bad thing and does not tell us as much about Drake as one might think.
Rogue Agent
Octorok
Off-topic butSlightly offtopic: After debating getting a PS5 or XSX, I'm probably getting a gaming laptop. More expensive, yes, but sort of mobile like the Switch and an open platform would complement the Switch nicely.
I probably wouldn't have considered doing this if Switch was updated earlier - and I'll get a Switch 2 launch day, like the first - but I just want to have something modern at this point. I coerced my MacBook to run Unreal Tournament '99 and want more of that high refresh rate action without going to ridiculous lengths to get stuff running on mac xD.
So if anyone has recommendations for a sub-€1500 gaming laptopI wouldn't mind getting some in an offtopic spoiler tag.
There's a good topic on ResetEra where you can ask for recommendations based on your budget, location, etc. The Gaming Laptop Discussion thread. It's where I got mine and it turned out to be good.
Thraktor
"[✄]. [✄]. [✄]. [✄]." -Microsoft
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I'd still say UFS cards are the better choice, but I wouldn't completely rule out CFexpress. The Type A is bigger than a microSD or UFS card (everything is), but it's smaller than a standard SD card, and actually about 20% smaller than a Switch game card, so hardly too big for a device like the Switch. I'm not too concerned with performance past 800MB/s or so, because I don't expect much more from internal storage, with commonly available UFS 2.1 at around 800MB/s being about as high as I expect on that front. That said, unless they roll back Drake's PCIe support to 3.0 (which would be a bizarre decision), it would be compatible with the inevitable PCIe 4.0 CFexpress cards, which would be a 2000GB/s link speed for Type A (probably 1.6/1.7GB/s real world).
And, although CFexpress cards are absurdly expensive at the moment, I'm actually not particularly concerned at how much they would cost were they actually widely used in a mass-market consumer device. Currently the only users of CFexpress cards are either professional photographers or videographers, or they're amateurs who are willing to spend thousands of dollars/euros/pounds on a camera, and as much again on lenses. That is, they're not exactly a price-conscious audience. However, the underlying technology is literally just a NVMe BGA SSD wrapped in plastic, I would assume in most cases using exactly the same chips as M2 2230 SSDs, but with fewer lanes connected and none of the SATA/USB/etc pins that M2 connectors have. In fact, you can literally put an M2 2230 SSD in a CFexpress housing if you want.
This is why I brought up the Xbox Series X/S expansion card, which is just a slightly modified CFexpress Type B card, but targeted at a much more price-conscious audience. The 1TB card at $220 is about half the price of equivalent CFexpress cards, despite using a more expensive PCIe 4.0 SSD. That $220 almost certainly includes a very healthy profit margin too, as it's a proprietary accessory, so there's no reason mass-market CFexpress cards targeting a similarly price-conscious audience couldn't offer 1TB cards at a sub-$200 price point, which wouldn't be far off the price 1TB microSD cards go for at the moment.
I'd be more concerned about power consumption. With eUFS built for phones and NVMe SSDs built for PCs, the former should have more reliably low power consumption than the latter. Given that UFS cards and CFexpress cards would leverage existing eUFS and NVMe manufacturing respectively, I would therefore expect UFS cards to have lower typical power consumption, and also more consistent power consumption across cards, than CFexpress. The max 1.7W of the CFexpress Type A card I found isn't terrible, but it's higher than you'd probably want for a device like the Switch, and as far as I can see there's nothing stopping other cards pulling 3-4W.
Smash Kirby
Bob-omb
Interesting video about the limitations of the current Switch. I assume Nintendo is working addressing these issues.
cw_sasuke
Octorok
The biggest single player ones in terms of technical showcases would be Capcom RE Engine games in general, RDR2 and Cyberpunk.
In terms of of online and service games Warzone/Warzone 2, GTA Online, Genshin Impact would be the most important.
I suppose he is using an Erista here, Mariko can clock the memory bandwidth to 33mb if I remember correctly, along with push the gpu and cpu further.
cw_sasuke
Octorok
If Nintendo can't convince Capcom to bring SFVI over we really have a problem. It's a PS4 game, this really should be a no brainer now that the series is multiplatform on consoles again.
So yeah im expecting it.
Charamiwa
Bob-omb
For online games FF14 would be huge too, but there might be something going on with Sony there.
cw_sasuke
Octorok
Yeah, i only listed what i found to be realistic and reasonable - XIV isnt happening anytime soon when they still cant get it on Xbox so many years in, let alone early in Drakes lifecycle.
ShadowFox08
Paratroopa
Cod too.
cw_sasuke
Octorok
I consider Warzone to be the biggest and most likely iteration of CoD that could come to Nintendo systems - outside maybe of some older Remasters or whatever but in terms of player base and revenue Warzone and its update/sequel are the important ones.
ShadowFox08
Paratroopa
I kinda lost all hope for cod on switch. We could have gotten cod mobile or older remasters by now.. Really hoping Drake gets cod. Sttorage size is gonna be an interesting major issue though.. It's one major thing already what game card sizes will be available and their cost to devs, it's also a other interesting Nintendo forces them to decrease their size/compress or will just let them release with 100GB and all. Not to mention Drake will come with a paltry 128 or 256 GB of storage, which will fill up fast with the AAA games.
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Yea, the only hope is for new leadership (ms) to shake things up.
Which I do see a possibility for, as ms doesn’t really see Nintendo as direct competitors (unless they launch a handheld of their own).
D
Deleted member 1324
Guest
RDRII is still a launch / launch window game the last I heard.
I’d imagine most big Square and Capcom AAA games they never natively ported so FFVX Royal Edition, FFVII Remake, MH World Iceborn, RE 2+3 Remake, REVII+VIII (with their third person modes), RE4 Remake. Street Fighter VI and MH World 2 in terms of new games.
Drake should be able to handle anything outside of maybe Ubisoft PS5/SeriesSX exclusive open World games so the next Assassin’s Creed, Watch Dogs and Farcry.
I want to believe you, but to me you are just a random person on the internet.
Will definitely play red dead on it, if it’s legit though
Nux
The artist formerly known as Xun
Hopefully we'll just see one SKU for the majority of Nintendo games, aside from perhaps a few exclusives that need to take advantage of the extra hardware capabilities.
ShadowFox08
Paratroopa
I want two SKUs. Will gladly pay for higher end model for more storage space. Lower end at $400 with $256 GB (lol watch us get cheapened out with 128GB) storage or something and $450-$500 for 512GB-1TB. The increased storage shouldn't be that expensive. They will make their profit with the higher end.
Got my $500 gift card from bestbuy on my desk waiting to be used ._.
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Resident Evil 2,3,4,7,8, Street Fighter VI, Devil May Cry V, Final Fantasy VII, Final Fantasy XV, Kingdom Hearts III, Wo-Long, Wild Hearts, Elden Ring, Red Read Redemption 2, Grand Theft Auto V, Call of Duty, Cyberpunk, Genshin Impact, and whatever Ubisoft can port to it.
Thugstas
Bob-omb
Yup and Konami will be there too …
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I don’t think that’s possible since they aren’t using a very simple OS. It’s very bloated. Uses like 3.5GB of memory at launch for the OS too, unlikes series which uses 2.5GB.
It would be more than 7%. I think (especially due to smaller cache) it would be more like 15% or more. It’s slower and has a lot less cache, shares memory pool with the GPU (though it doesn’t consume much but still). The 3600 in reality should perform better than the PS5 CPU in most cases even at 4GHz, when it can clock higher.
3.5GHz is 14% slower than 4GHz example, but it has less cores so it wouldn’t be 14% better there, but it has a lot more cache so it could help it perform Better still. That said, this game is single threaded leaning and not really multi threaded, so it’s not really indicative of what the ps5 is doing MT wise. But otherwise it should be better than the PS5.
Series uses 2 threads (doesn’t seem like an actual core, but balances it across cores) out of the 16 threads it has, but XBox One/X used 6.5 for games like the PS4.
YolkFolk
Tingle
You’ve said several times the system has the power of PS4 in handheld mode and can run games like RDR2. You’ve also said the image quality will be a huge leap forward.
Why then say the system could be weaker than expected with a real successor possibly in 2025? Is the PS4 power comment not accurate now? Seems unlikely they’d release a pro at this point in the systems life for €400 with exclusive games and then drop a successor 2 years later.
Not having a go, always happy to see your posts. Just clarifying your power comments.
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