StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

[Crusters]

I'm a solid state physicist; actively researching on a related topic. While architectures aren't my thing, which I'm very much willing to admit, the limitations due to quantum physics definitely are. And you aren't going below De Broglie's wavelength, as whichever gains you'd get from miniaturization would be offset by the increased leakage current.
You see, trying to clash people online for sports is pretty dumb, because sometimes, you end up out of your own depth. Don't be dumb.

Feet always provides the disclaimer that nm has soley become a marketing term now and long been decoupled from an actual unit of measurement, because of this issue.

More importantly:

Length of time Bosintang participates in this conversation -> amount his posts can double for the Xeno franchise thread -> increase in Crusters satisfaction.

 

[Concernt]

The last time they made a trailer private was the Lite reveal before the OLED trailer dropped.

It is now July, the same month Nintendo Switch Lite and Nintendo Switch - OLED Model (né (OLED Model)) were revealed.

The trailer for the OLED Model has been made private.

Well, is it happening, or is this some wacky coincidence?

 

[Glio]

The last time they made a trailer private was the Lite reveal before the OLED trailer dropped.

It is now July, the same month Nintendo Switch Lite and Nintendo Switch - OLED Model (né (OLED Model)) were revealed.

The trailer for the OLED Model has been made private.

Well, is it happening, or is this some wacky coincidence?

As I have commented in another thread, the Lite video was actually made private after the OLED announcement, not before.

 

[Concernt]

As I have commented in another thread, the Lite video was actually made private after the OLED announcement, not before.

The last time they made a trailer private was the Lite reveal around the time the OLED Model trailer dropped.

 

[Dekuman]

The before/after could just be coincidence and timing.
It is interesting why they would private videos of a product on the market. It suggests there's something else coming they don't want to get interference from the old videos.

Could be nothing, but it may well be a new product. not necessarily new Switch, something as simple as Switch Lite OLED or Switch XL.

 

[Serif]

Whether after or before, the reasoning for privating videos is presumably to avoid confusion when people are querying YouTube for Switch hardware. So its possible it could be for a Switch model like a special edition or minor revision but not Switch Advance. I'm not necessarily convinced by the first two and not raising my hopes so high for the third but won't rule any of these out.

Either that, or the reasoning is entirely different, or it's an error. Making a trailer private for "no reason" is not too compelling to me, since I'm guessing they kind of need the OLED video up to, uh, market the OLED.

 

[Concernt]

The before/after could just be coincidence and timing.
It is interesting why they would private videos of a product on the market. It suggests there's something else coming they don't want to get interference from the old videos.

Could be nothing, but it may well be a new product. not necessarily new Switch, something as simple as Switch Lite OLED or Switch XL.

Switch XL? The OLED Model fills the boots of the old XL Models. The LITE OLED has no place in the market except existing LITE owners, which Nintendo would prefer to move to a console with Joy-Con to sell them more games and more controllers.

The markets of the Lite and XL are fulfilled. I don't see this going any way other than:

Super Nintendo Switch

Absolutely nothing.

And while I think "Absolutely nothing" is more likely, I am certainly hoping for Super Nintendo Switch.

 

[Concernt]

Whether after or before, the reasoning for privating videos is presumably to avoid confusion when people are querying YouTube for Switch hardware. So its possible it could be for a Switch model like a special edition or minor revision but not Switch Advance. I'm not necessarily convinced by the first two and not raising my hopes so high for the third but won't rule any of these out.

Either that, or the reasoning is entirely different, or it's an error. Making a trailer private for "no reason" is not too compelling to me, since I'm guessing they kind of need the OLED video up to, uh, market the OLED.

They never privated the Nintendo Switch LITE video for its special editions, or the original reveal for its special editions, etc.

 

[Dekuman]

could be as simple as matching metric for measurement. OLED trailer has been up for a year, maybe they want to compare viewer stats without it getting more views. But i assume they could take a snapshot without delisting/privating a video.

 

[Serif]

They never privated the Nintendo Switch LITE video for its special editions, or the original reveal for its special editions, etc.

That's why I'm not convinced it's a special edition, which would probably be announced in a direct anyway.

 

[Concernt]

could be as simple as matching metric for measurement. OLED trailer has been up for a year, maybe they want to compare viewer stats without it getting more views. But i assume they could take a snapshot without delisting/privating a video.

Interesting, isn't it?

 

[Deleted member 645]

Man the desire for this new switch is maybe at an all-time high. I can’t remember another console being so highly desired. People are reaching and looking for any info that can’t point to a new switch. You know what though, if Nintendo announces a OLED lite the world will burn. I will also laugh my ass off.

 

[Concernt]

That's why I'm not convinced it's a special edition, which would probably be announced in a direct anyway.

I honestly don't see any point in privating it except for a revision, but it's important to note OLED Model took years of development for what was a fairly simple revision. ANOTHER revision that's the exact same under the hood but with a new shell would be absurd. But maybe Nintendo would do it anyway, because it's so absurd.

 

[BobNintendofan]

Man the desire for this new switch is maybe at an all-time high. I can’t remember another console being so highly desired. People are reaching and looking for any info that can’t point to a new switch. You know what though, if Nintendo announces a OLED lite the world will burn. I will also laugh my ass off.

Well it's because normally Nintendo has already announced a new console by this point. Their consoles typically last 5-6 years and they typically announce their next console at least a year in advance (as in, that they're working on a new console and a code name, not actually showing it).

 

[Deleted member 645]

Well it's because normally Nintendo has already announced a new console by this point. Their consoles typically last 5-6 years and they typically announce their next console at least a year in advance (as in, that they're working on a new console and a code name, not actually showing it).

That’s not it though. People have been dreaming of a more capable switch since 2019.

 

[Concernt]

Well it's because normally Nintendo has already announced a new console by this point. Their consoles typically last 5-6 years and they typically announce their next console at least a year in advance (as in, that they're working on a new console and a code name, not actually showing it).

I think this situation is probably pretty different. They did say they wanted the Switch to hold a 10 year life span, and to do so through new models (I think). If this is going to be part of the same family, even with a generational power jump, a small gap between reveal and release makes sense (Like New 3DS.)

 

[BobNintendofan]

I think this situation is probably pretty different. They did say they wanted the Switch to hold a 10 year life span, and to do so through new models (I think). If this is going to be part of the same family, even with a generational power jump, a small gap between reveal and release makes sense (Like New 3DS.)

A bit pedantic but I don't actually believe they said they want the switch to have a 10 year life span. Maybe they did and I missed it but I don't think so.

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

Feet always provides the disclaimer that nm has soley become a marketing term now and long been decoupled from an actual unit of measurement, because of this issue.

More importantly:

Length of time Bosintang participates in this conversation -> amount his posts can double for the Xeno franchise thread -> increase in Crusters satisfaction.

Not Feet, Dakhil.

~** → a marketing nomenclature used by all foundry companies~

He puts this on almost every post that talks about this!

 

[Concernt]

That’s not it though. People have been dreaming of a more capable switch since 2019.

People have been dreaming of a more capable Switch since November 2016

Remember the first factory leak of the Red and Blue Joy-Con? Same leak also said there was a 4K dev kit being tested. In 2016. Before the Neon Red and Blue Joy-Con were revealed.

It's been a long time coming. Heck, it's been rumoured for LONGER than the Switch, whose rumours began in 2014 about being a hybrid.

 

[Concernt]

A bit pedantic but I don't actually believe they said they want the switch to have a 10 year life span. Maybe they did and I missed it but I don't think so.

Nintendo plans to support Switch for 7 to 10 years

The head of Nintendo has said he wants to support the Switch for much longer than the usual five or six-year console life.

metro.co.uk

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2020/05/nintendo_switch_is_barely_in_the_middle_of_its_life_cycle (Barely in the middle at 4 years would imply in the middle at 5)

 

[BobNintendofan]

Nintendo plans to support Switch for 7 to 10 years

The head of Nintendo has said he wants to support the Switch for much longer than the usual five or six-year console life.

metro.co.uk

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2020/05/nintendo_switch_is_barely_in_the_middle_of_its_life_cycle (Barely in the middle at 4 years would imply in the middle at 5)

This is pretty vague. They can argue later over what they mean by "middle." Saying specifically 10 years would be a lot more definitive and so far they haven't gone that far. Gotta be careful with how marketers frame things.

 

[neil]

Man the desire for this new switch is maybe at an all-time high. I can’t remember another console being so highly desired. People are reaching and looking for any info that can’t point to a new switch.

I can’t remember being so hyped for a new console. I absolutely love my Switch, I’ve never bought so many games or had so much fun with a console. A new one with a big power bump is going to be just awesome. And this thread is totally feeding my hype

 

[Serif]

I honestly don't see any point in privating it except for a revision, but it's important to note OLED Model took years of development for what was a fairly simple revision. ANOTHER revision that's the exact same under the hood but with a new shell would be absurd. But maybe Nintendo would do it anyway, because it's so absurd.

Yeah. An announcement video for a new model should have some justification for being made e.g. the Mariko 2019 revision with better battery did not have an announcement video. Lite was an entirely new form factor so they showed off its portability (and d-pad!) in its reveal. OLED had the new larger display, new kickstand, speakers, and LAN port.

An announcement video for an OLED Lite... I personally don't see the point of it unless it has a more drastic redesign, like if it were smaller and had circle pads with a metal shell (my not-so-hidden wishlist for a future Lite).

People have been dreaming of a more capable Switch since November 2016

Remember the first factory leak of the Red and Blue Joy-Con? Same leak also said there was a 4K dev kit being tested. In 2016. Before the Neon Red and Blue Joy-Con were revealed.

Do you have a link because I don't recall this, I only remember original Switch devkit leaks and speculation about it "possibly" being more powerful, and I don't think there would have been any realistic possibility of a Switch 4K devkit in 2016 before DLSS matured as a technology. I don't think DLSS was even in RTX cards until 2018.

 

[Concernt]

Yeah. An announcement video for a new model should have some justification for being made e.g. the Mariko 2019 revision with better battery did not have an announcement video. Lite was an entirely new form factor so they showed off its portability (and d-pad!) in its reveal. OLED had the new larger display, new kickstand, speakers, and LAN port.

An announcement video for an OLED Lite... I personally don't see the point of it unless it has a more drastic redesign, like if it were smaller and had circle pads with a metal shell (my not-so-hidden wishlist for a future Lite).


Do you have a link because I don't recall this, I only remember original Switch devkit leaks and speculation about it "possibly" being more powerful, and I don't think there would have been any realistic possibility of a Switch 4K devkit in 2016 before DLSS matured as a technology. I don't think DLSS was even in RTX cards until 2018.

I do not! Feel free to ignore me if that's not good enough. However what I remember was it was based on the GTX 1060, and that that was the performance target. If that was true, I imagine it was a case of Nvidia telling Nintendo "Games should look as good as a 1060 in our next mobile processor, so until we can get the final chip to you, use that, then scale down and use DLSS", but again, could be talking out of my ass here. Maybe it was revealed to me in a dream.

 

[Serif]

I do not! Feel free to ignore me if that's not good enough. However what I remember was it was based on the GTX 1060, and that that was the performance target. If that was true, I imagine it was a case of Nvidia telling Nintendo "Games should look as good as a 1060 in our next mobile processor, so until we can get the final chip to you, use that, then scale down and use DLSS", but again, could be talking out of my ass here. Maybe it was revealed to me in a dream.

I can indeed believe that Nvidia demoed their future chips and DLSS to Nintendo a while ago. There were rumors of the 3DS being Tegra powered so I have no doubt they floated numerous ideas with each other before and after the Switch contract.

 

[Instro]

People have been dreaming of a more capable Switch since November 2016

Remember the first factory leak of the Red and Blue Joy-Con? Same leak also said there was a 4K dev kit being tested. In 2016. Before the Neon Red and Blue Joy-Con were revealed.

It's been a long time coming. Heck, it's been rumoured for LONGER than the Switch, whose rumours began in 2014 about being a hybrid.

It's been a while, but I think the specifics were something like there was some data or information regarding a larger chip being considered/tested alongside the chip used in the Switch. Seemingly for possible use in a stationary console SKU that was never actually made/released. Maybe someone else remembers though.

I think that was part of the reason the Pro rumors started along so early, since it seemed like Nintendo was already tinkering with the idea of a higher performance Switch.

 

[Concernt]

It's been a while, but I think the specifics were something like there was some data or information regarding a larger chip being considered/tested alongside the chip used in the Switch. Seemingly for possible use in a stationary console SKU that was never actually made/released. Maybe someone else remembers though.

I think that was part of the reason the Pro rumors started along so early, since it seemed like Nintendo was already tinkering with the idea of a higher performance Switch.

To be fair, Switch was the first time there was a jump on their ARM platform that didn't have to support the previous generation. 3DS and DS both had to have the predecessor's CPU integrated into it. The more iterations you do, the more you russian doll your CPU, the more dev time it takes to address every core because they use different versions of ARM.

With Switch, they have a clean break onto fully modern ARM, meaning they have far more wiggle room to upgrade without breaking compatibility. Especially since now they're using higher level ways of working with the Switch in the form of the NVN(2) API(s). It's just a more scalable platform than 3DS.

 

[Kaiseraullirio]

I know I'm not adding much, but I definitely remember the 1060-in-a-dock talk... it was the reason I waited for 2060 laptops to come out because I didn't want to get a laptop that would be less powerful than my Switch... I don't remember how much I actually believed the talk, but it was a good reason to not spend money the moment.

 

[Dekuman]

1060 is 4.4 teraflops, but it's also fairly old , same generation as Switch's X1. Even at 2TF docked, the Drake chip with DLSS and other modern features would likely make up the gap easily. But since we don't know exactly what configuration that new chip will come in, the 2TF is just a wild guess based on old guesstimates of target performance for the next Switch. Could be a bit higher than 2.

 

[Eradicate]

All this talk about yesteryear got me looking around, and I saw this link that had a rundown of rumors from before the Switch was revealed. Wow, what a trip! Mockups, survey leaks, all sorts of things!

 

[TheCongressman]

All this talk about yesteryear got me looking around, and I saw this link that had a rundown of rumors from before the Switch was revealed. Wow, what a trip! Mockups, survey leaks, all sorts of things!

Mockups are my favorite aspect of console speculation. I really miss that. After the first wave of pro rumors, I haven't seen a single mockup. Now, I think most people are expecting the exact same formfactor with maybe a different material or finish, but it's still fun to imagine wild design changes.

 

[Crusters]

Not Feet, Dakhil.


He puts this on almost every post that talks about this!

Ah, forgive me Dakhil!

 

[CypressFX]

@NateDrake

Yo Nate, have you seen some smoke in regards to the Pro already?

 

[Deleted member 1324]

I tend to take them at their word when they say they don’t know anything - if for no other reason than their frustration at “DF said” articles is so palpable.

He’s said that several times before then later admitted he did. PS4 Pro, Xbox One X, Series consoles, Switch Lite and OLED.

 

[byDoS]

@NateDrake

Yo Nate, have you seen some smoke in regards to the Pro already?

 

[Brofield]

@CypressFX

Mmmm, not the joke you think it is. No need to tag and harass insiders for more leaks

 

[Vash_the_Stampede]

I'm a solid state physicist; actively researching on a related topic. While architectures aren't my thing, which I'm very much willing to admit, the limitations due to quantum physics definitely are. And you aren't going below De Broglie's wavelength, as whichever gains you'd get from miniaturization would be offset by the increased leakage current.
You see, trying to clash people online for sports is pretty dumb, because sometimes, you end up out of your own depth. Don't be dumb.

I’m not saying you’re dumb. I’m saying Keller knows more and he doesn’t share this pessimistic view. And I’m gonna go with him on this one.

 

[lexony]

The winking smiley was a mistake. It‘s the true evil in the world.

 

[chocolate_supra]

The winking smiley was a mistake. It‘s the true evil in the world.

@Thugstas you're being called out

 

[Deleted member 645]

People have been dreaming of a more capable Switch since November 2016

Remember the first factory leak of the Red and Blue Joy-Con? Same leak also said there was a 4K dev kit being tested. In 2016. Before the Neon Red and Blue Joy-Con were revealed.

It's been a long time coming. Heck, it's been rumoured for LONGER than the Switch, whose rumours began in 2014 about being a hybrid.

You are right I was just trying to be fair to the fans. Not everyone was on board. It’s been a long time coming.

 

[Thugstas]

@Thugstas you're being called out

I’m here like Mr Ouija… Winckman incoming !

 

[Bosintang]

I’m not saying you’re dumb. I’m saying Keller knows more and he doesn’t share this pessimistic view. And I’m gonna go with him on this one.

It's not a pessimistic view, it's a literal limitation of physics. It doesn't matter what you want to go with, or what I want.

From a physics perspective, you can't go below 10-ish nm before having serious quantum tunneling issues. If that gentleman, who I don't know, was there, he would agree with me.

I know some people are trying to circumvent those issues by changing material stacks and architectures, but it will probably take some time (i.e. 10+years). In the meantime, whatever improvement we will get will have to be made around those limitations, yet I fully expect future processes to be labelled as "0.5 nm, 0.2nm" etc. Which I pointed out in the message to which you felt compelled to answer with an uncalled for snark.

When factoring those limitations with the looming resource scarcity and growing world instability, the current consensus in the field is that we're going toward a relative stalling in processing power unless a breakthrough is made, like unifying memory and CPU units.

As for me, as a scientist who isn't an expert on the specific topic, I'm going with the consensus of the community; and I respectfully recommend you to do the same for whichever field you're not an expert in.

 

[Eradicate]

Mockups are my favorite aspect of console speculation. I really miss that. After the first wave of pro rumors, I haven't seen a single mockup. Now, I think most people are expecting the exact same formfactor with maybe a different material or finish, but it's still fun to imagine wild design changes.

Oh man, you've got that right! I LIVED for mockups for every console speculation discussion, haha! Just saw this super-image of a bunch of "NX" mockups, but putting it in a spoiler button incase it expands the whole image, haha!:

Spoiler

Mine is in there too!

I WISH there was a design change for sure! I'd love to hear a rumor that the new one has a different dock design, or it'll be a clamshell, or just anything that could warrant some mockups having to be made, haha!

 

[Concernt]

Mockups are my favorite aspect of console speculation. I really miss that. After the first wave of pro rumors, I haven't seen a single mockup. Now, I think most people are expecting the exact same formfactor with maybe a different material or finish, but it's still fun to imagine wild design changes.

What I honestly expect:

The Nintendo Switch Dock with LAN Port in black.

Black Joy-Con with little to no changes.

All metal exterior (OLED Model is over 50%, this just makes sense.), polished or brushed metal finish instead of black.

Wrap-around kickstand extending from the top edge.

OLED Model style vents (Slots with fabric mesh), just more of them (I'm expecting four to six), with two to four where the V1 had them (four slots instead of two gaping holes?) and two where the OLED has them. This lines up with intake locations on the Nintendo Switch Dock with LAN Port, which as explored has overbuilt air intake for the current models.

The exact same screen as the OLED Model
Logo same size as OLED Model but moved to centre of back since the stand isn't in the way.

 

[Crusters]

It's not a pessimistic view, it's a literal limitation of physics. It doesn't matter what you want to go with, or what I want.

From a physics perspective, you can't go below 10-ish nm before having serious quantum tunneling issues. If that gentleman, who I don't know, was there, he would agree with me.

I know some people are trying to circumvent those issues by changing material stacks and architectures, but it will probably take some time (i.e. 10+years). In the meantime, whatever improvement we will get will have to be made around those limitations, yet I fully expect future processes to be labelled as "0.5 nm, 0.2nm" etc. Which I pointed out in the message to which you felt compelled to answer with an uncalled for snark.

When factoring those limitations with the looming resource scarcity and growing world instability, the current consensus in the field is that we're going toward a relative stalling in processing power unless a breakthrough is made, like unifying memory and CPU units.

As for me, as a scientist who isn't an expert on the specific topic, I'm going with the consensus of the community; and I respectfully recommend you to do the same for whichever field you're not an expert in.

I thought quantum tunneling started to occur at below 4 nm?

 

[Vash_the_Stampede]

It's not a pessimistic view, it's a literal limitation of physics. It doesn't matter what you want to go with, or what I want.

From a physics perspective, you can't go below 10-ish nm before having serious quantum tunneling issues. If that gentleman, who I don't know, was there, he would agree with me.

I know some people are trying to circumvent those issues by changing material stacks and architectures, but it will probably take some time (i.e. 10+years). In the meantime, whatever improvement we will get will have to be made around those limitations, yet I fully expect future processes to be labelled as "0.5 nm, 0.2nm" etc. Which I pointed out in the message to which you felt compelled to answer with an uncalled for snark.

When factoring those limitations with the looming resource scarcity and growing world instability, the current consensus in the field is that we're going toward a relative stalling in processing power unless a breakthrough is made, like unifying memory and CPU units.

As for me, as a scientist who isn't an expert on the specific topic, I'm going with the consensus of the community; and I respectfully recommend you to do the same for whichever field you're not an expert in.

I just said that I’m pretty sure he know more than you. You agreed too - and yet that’s considered snarky? If it makes you feel better: I think he knows more than me too.

Go watch his speeches on the topic if you’re interested. His perspective isn’t consensus but he is a wunderkind and he does believe in break through. Semiconductor industry is littered with examples of “physical limitations” before they are broken.

Anyway, this topic is beyond the scope. Sorry you felt attacked. You PhD types are very sensitive about your perceived intellect

 

[Crusters]

I’m here like Mr Ouija… Winckman incoming !

Mr..... Ouija.......?

OMG!!!! Thugstas just confirmed Geist 2 for drake!!!!

 

[Thugstas]

Mr..... Ouija.......?

OMG!!!! Thugstas just confirmed Geist 2 for drake!!!!

 

[Skittzo]

Mr..... Ouija.......?

OMG!!!! Thugstas just confirmed Geist 2 for drake!!!!

Not Eternal Darkness 2?

 

[Crusters]

Not Eternal Darkness 2?

Unfortunately, it would seem Xel'lotath has taken an interest in too much of the staff of silicon knights.....