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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

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Tamantayoshi said:
I'm a little behind on things, is the switch 2 really gonna be as powerful as the series s?
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As powerful, not really. But potentially close! It has more RAM and it could possibly do 3-3.5 TFLOPS (docked) compared to Series S's 4 TFLOPS, so it's within spitting distance. It should be able to run Series S games with some careful optimization.

But the big deal is that with DLSS it can render at much lower resolutions (giving it more room for rendering high-quality effects and lighting and such) and then let the upscaling take it to 1080p or even 4K.

So to the average consumer it'll probably look pretty comparable to the Series S, and potentially output at even higher resolution due to DLSS.
 
AceBandage said:
These are Vietnamese shipping orders that are tracked and the information is  mostly public. People have been using these for years, particularly for phone specs of upcoming models.
You just have to know how to use the system.
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I see.
 
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Serif said:
I don't think any PC handheld has LPDDR5X, even if most of them have 16 GB.

Truthfully I think they splurge on RAM because of their 'do as you wish' model of providing the user with enough resources to run as many applications as they want on the device and try to run any game they want, since these are PCs after all. Open up all the Chrome tabs while playing Starfield.

Meanwhile I doubt the Switch 2 will let you play YouTube and a game at the same time. Though I would appreciate other background applets like streaming or chat.
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I think chatting and streaming will be around this time. Didn't the 360 had party chat and they made the OS memory foot print 32 MB?
Anyway, we don't need a media app in the background. Everyone has smart TV for that.
JoshuaJSlone said:
Currently uses something close to 0.75 of a gigabyte, so somewhere between that and triple that (for triple the total RAM) are what I'd consider the extreme boundaries. Leaving 9.75-11.25 remaining.
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What specifically of the OS takes up the Switch 0.75GB memory?
 
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Lancelot said:
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LiC said:
Hidden content is only available for registered users. Sharing it outside of Famiboards is subject to moderation.
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Hidden content is only available for registered users. Sharing it outside of Famiboards is subject to moderation.
 
ZonaiResearcher said:
Switch 2 has to cost $400. Switch OLED is already $350 and the BOM for Switch 2 is going to be more than it is with Switch OLED. Plus Nintendo can't go with a $500 console because it won't be kid-friendly at that price, and then it ends up competing with Xbox Series X and PS5. One thing Digital Foundry has been pointing out with this generation is the lack of price cuts, PS5 had increased pricing in various markets and we've yet to see a permanent price cut in the U.S. apart from bundles or temporary promotions.
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My bet is anyway $399-449
 
AceBandage said:
As always it depends on the publisher more than anything.
But, it's closer to the Series S in terms of raw power than not, so it's definitely a possibility.
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ILikeFeet said:
even if the system was stronger than Series X, it's not a guarantee
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RedSpring said:
No such thing when even being one of most sold console ever doesn't guarantee ports. But yes, the specs are great.
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KeijiKG said:
I'd imagine even a port that requires a little extra work on the level of say -- Doom Eternal or The Witcher 3's Switch conversions could have shortened conversion time since they'll have less to water down if they even have to come to that.
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Thanks for the replies. Ultimately I'm hoping it's at least on par with the switch for third party support, as most of what I'd ever want to play has come to it.
 
Raccoon said:
still won't fit in my pocket like the OLED does

ironically the larger size will be a bigger issue for men since we have big luxurious pockets for our big dumb switch 1s that will be outmoded by the even bigger dumber switch 2
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march 2025 im setting a trend
images
 
Lancelot said:
Let's hope MLID was on the right all along and the dock will indeed have a fan plus target 4 TFLOPS, I think that's as good as it gets. That will also imply a 2 TFLOPS on handheld which would be excellent... Time to start hoping for 4N ya' all, it's the only piece of the puzzle left.
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Concernt said:
I certainly DON'T hope for a fan in the dock, but 2TF in handheld mode with 4N certainly tracks!
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i sure hope so because
wattage_estimate.png

whew thatd be HAWT HAWT HAWT in SEC8n
 
oldpuck said:
I'm not sure, just because there isn't a lot of data on the situation.

Honestly, the low latency bandwidth probably helps the CPU more than the GPU. Low latency memory helps most in cases where you make lots of small reads, which is a pretty classic CPU situation.
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I think I remember you posting some numbers about comparing the bandwidth ratios of Nvidia cards and also comparing drakes…
but I can’t find it and don’t know what words to use to search it

I thought it explained the question of how a lower bandwidth for a mobile GPU of this size isn’t all that bad but maybe I’m not remembering correctly.

If you know what I’m talking about would you mind linking it? I’m trying to explain to a friend that 120GB/s isn’t worse than ps4’s 176 but I’m finding it difficult

Generally speaking I know that it’s not out of line for an nvidia product and matches up but I can’t remember the numbers and such


Edit:
I think this is it?
famiboards.com

Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

There's been years worth of R&D on AMD, Intel, and Nvidia's part to make rendering more bandwidth efficient (e.g. mesh shaders). You can't just slot in the numbers and directly compare them. There's only so much efficiency improvements can do, 102.7 GB/s from regular LPDDR5 are very constrained...
famiboards.com famiboards.com
 
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MP! said:
I think I remember you posting some numbers about comparing the bandwidth ratios of Nvidia cards and also comparing drakes…
but I can’t find it and don’t know what words to use to search it

I thought it explained the question of how a lower bandwidth for a mobile GPU of this size isn’t all that bad but maybe I’m not remembering correctly.

If you know what I’m talking about would you mind linking it? I’m trying to explain to a friend that 120GB/s isn’t worse than ps4’s 176 but I’m finding it difficult
Click to expand...
Search Terms Bandwidth
 
Tamantayoshi said:
I'm a little behind on things, is the switch 2 really gonna be as powerful as the series s?
Click to expand...
ROG Ally Extreme has the same 4TFLOPS as Xbox Series S. CPU performance is a question mark, comparing Geekbench scores of Zen 2 (which Series X/S and PS5 use) with Apple's A17 Pro, the A17 Pro has higher single core but slightly less multicore performance. Nvidia's chips won't have as strong a CPU as Apple and also won't be on 3nm. So CPU will be slower, but if it is using a 4N process, then the Nvidia could have reasonably strong CPU performance. Zen 2 is starting to get old, anyways.
 
ZonaiResearcher said:
Switch 2 has to cost $400. Switch OLED is already $350 and the BOM for Switch 2 is going to be more than it is with Switch OLED. Plus Nintendo can't go with a $500 console because it won't be kid-friendly at that price, and then it ends up competing with Xbox Series X and PS5. One thing Digital Foundry has been pointing out with this generation is the lack of price cuts, PS5 had increased pricing in various markets and we've yet to see a permanent price cut in the U.S. apart from bundles or temporary promotions.
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I think they were following Nintendo's lead. They notice they didn't get a price cut and they and Microsoft follow suit. Maybe they can't? They want to maximize profits?
 
Mango said:
Thanks for the replies. Ultimately I'm hoping it's at least on par with the switch for third party support, as most of what I'd ever want to play has come to it.
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It will have much better support than Switch 1,3P AAA same support like PS5 and XSX|XSS is very likely
 
omniryu said:
I think they were following Nintendo's lead. They notice they didn't get a price cut and they and Microsoft follow suit. Maybe they can't? They want to maximize profits?
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Famously, Nintendo makes profits on selling hardware while Microsoft and Sony sold their hardware at a loss. Nintendo has been selling gazillions of Switches and haven't had any pressure to drop pricing. On the other hand, Xbox and PS5 sales are falling, and if they dropped the price, they would sell more units. This would also squeeze Nintendo, because if a PS5 and Switch were closer in price, more people might pick up a PS5. The circumstances are very different for both of them.
 
ZonaiResearcher said:
ROG Ally Extreme has the same 4TFLOPS as Xbox Series S. CPU performance is a question mark, comparing Geekbench scores of Zen 2 (which Series X/S and PS5 use) with Apple's A17 Pro, the A17 Pro has higher single core but slightly less multicore performance. Nvidia's chips won't have as strong a CPU as Apple and also won't be on 3nm. So CPU will be slower, but if it is using a 4N process, then the Nvidia could have reasonably strong CPU performance. Zen 2 is starting to get old, anyways.
Click to expand...
probably much less actual real world performance than a Series S once you factor in it's essentially a portable PC ; a closed system like a console always has an advantage.
 
ZonaiResearcher said:
ROG Ally Extreme has the same 4TFLOPS as Xbox Series S. CPU performance is a question mark, comparing Geekbench scores of Zen 2 (which Series X/S and PS5 use) with Apple's A17 Pro, the A17 Pro has higher single core but slightly less multicore performance. Nvidia's chips won't have as strong a CPU as Apple and also won't be on 3nm. So CPU will be slower, but if it is using a 4N process, then the Nvidia could have reasonably strong CPU performance. Zen 2 is starting to get old, anyways.
Click to expand...
We don’t have unfortunately tests for A78C, but is at least same IPC like Zen2
 
0
MP! said:
I think I remember you posting some numbers about comparing the bandwidth ratios of Nvidia cards and also comparing drakes…
but I can’t find it and don’t know what words to use to search it

I thought it explained the question of how a lower bandwidth for a mobile GPU of this size isn’t all that bad but maybe I’m not remembering correctly.

If you know what I’m talking about would you mind linking it? I’m trying to explain to a friend that 120GB/s isn’t worse than ps4’s 176 but I’m finding it difficult
Click to expand...
I don't recall the link, but I can explain the situation on how the lower bandwidth on Switch 2 isn't bad compared to PS4/Pro (at least from my understanding).

PS4 (and Pro) needed high bandwidth because they still did traditional rendering into the main buffers in main RAM. Systems like the Xbox 360, Wii U, Xbox One, and Switch did things differently. Both the Wii U and Xbox One had 32MB of separate RAM, the former having eDRAM and the latter having eSRAM. These could hold full 1080p buffers and were much faster than main RAM, so rendering was done in those. The Xbox 360 had 10MB of eDRAM, but that wasn't enough for full buffers, so MS's approach was to split the main buffer into tiles, and render them in the fast eDRAM before copying back to the main RAM. This sped up rendering time considerably because it doesn't have to do numerous reads/writes per pixel in the slower main RAM. The Switch uses a similar approach in tile-rendering, except instead of having a separate RAM bank, it used cache on the die instead, making for quick communication with the GPU. That same technique is likely to be used with Switch 2, so even with just 120GB/s of RAM bandwidth compared to PS4's 176GB/s of RAM, Switch 2 is mainly using that bandwidth for reading in data into cache, and then writing completed tiles back.
 
bmfrosty said:
What's left that we don't think we know. Lithography process? Amount of RAM dedicated to the OS?
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I think display type, is it LCD or OLED? That was a big part missing.
www.mk.co.kr

8년만의 닌텐도 신작 '메이드 바이 삼성' - 매일경제

핵심 두뇌인 칩셋 제조하고5세대 V낸드 메모리 탑재"갤럭시폰 출시 효과 맞먹어"
www.mk.co.kr www.mk.co.kr
Are we disregarding this source? It claims the lithography is going to be Samsung 7LPH. It also suggests Samsung 5th generation V-NAND, not Kioxia.
 
bmfrosty said:
What's left that we don't think we know. Lithography process? Amount of RAM dedicated to the OS?
Click to expand...

Full CPU and GPU stuff, but we have some rough estimates on the latter, (almost) none on the former, other than CPU configuration (which I believe is 8 core).
 
Discostew said:
I don't recall the link, but I can explain the situation on how the lower bandwidth on Switch 2 isn't bad compared to PS4/Pro (at least from my understanding).

PS4 (and Pro) needed high bandwidth because they still did traditional rendering into the main buffers in main RAM. Systems like the Xbox 360, Wii U, Xbox One, and Switch did things differently. Bot the Wii U and Xbox One had 32MB of separate RAM, the former having eDRAM and the latter having eSRAM. These could hold full 1080p buffers, so rendering was done in those, separate from the main RAM. The Xbox 360 had 10MB of eDRAM, but that wasn't enough for full buffers, so MS's approach was to split the main buffer into tiles, and render them in the fast eDRAM before copying back to the main RAM. This sped up rendering time considerably because it doesn't have to do numerous reads/writes per pixel in the slower main RAM. The Switch uses a similar approach in tile-rendering, except instead of having a separate RAM bank, it used cache on the die instead, making for quick communication with the GPU. That same technique is likely to be used with Switch 2, so even with just 120GB/s of RAM bandwidth compared to PS4's 176GB/s of RAM, Switch 2 is mainly using that bandwidth for reading in data into cache, and then writing completed tiles back.
Click to expand...
Right
Thanks I did remember the tile based rendering factor

Edit: hey I think I found it

https://famiboards.com/threads/futu...staff-posts-before-commenting.55/post-1022503
 
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ZonaiResearcher said:
I think display type, is it LCD or OLED? That was a big part missing.
www.mk.co.kr

8년만의 닌텐도 신작 '메이드 바이 삼성' - 매일경제

핵심 두뇌인 칩셋 제조하고5세대 V낸드 메모리 탑재"갤럭시폰 출시 효과 맞먹어"
www.mk.co.kr www.mk.co.kr
Are we disregarding this source? It claims the lithography is going to be Samsung 7LPH. It also suggests Samsung 5th generation V-NAND, not Kioxia.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I believe most here have disregarded that one. They're not going to release in 2H of this year. Thraktor also says because this one made the V-NAND claim, he is confident in disregarding the source (I don't understand V-NAND stuff, but I am confident Thraktor does)

Also, I think it's widely believed the display type will be LCD.
 
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ZonaiResearcher said:
I think display type, is it LCD or OLED? That was a big part missing.
www.mk.co.kr

8년만의 닌텐도 신작 '메이드 바이 삼성' - 매일경제

핵심 두뇌인 칩셋 제조하고5세대 V낸드 메모리 탑재"갤럭시폰 출시 효과 맞먹어"
www.mk.co.kr www.mk.co.kr
Are we disregarding this source? It claims the lithography is going to be Samsung 7LPH. It also suggests Samsung 5th generation V-NAND, not Kioxia.
Click to expand...
I just think that litho process will be one of the very last things we know unless NV or someone else starts talking about it. I think we'll first get some inference by someone who disassembles and tests the electronics, and it will be eventually backed up by someone willing to ruin a switch 2 to shave down a CPU and take photos/xrays or whatever is needed to get that sort of detail out of it.
 
omniryu said:
Now that will be great.

I don't think it was an assumption of "Not enough" but more of "It makes too much sense." While the cartoony games will get a big jump in visuals, the more realistic games will be the more eye opener. Like I said before, can you imagine you're going through the obligatory lava area and you see the ray trace reflection on Samus suit?
Maybe when Samus takes off her suit and we see the poor on her face or the subscatter surface effect on her ears.

I just see this as another zelda situation. Delay the Switch version and have a simultaneous release.


I think they will but bring something different. I think we will have multiple planets to travel to again. One where it will be more story oriented and the other will be more exploration oriented.
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I mean it can work, the problem was te cheap sci-fi story of MP3 and the cheap looking designs. That's why I'm curious how they handle the more narrative focused elements. Visually I don't expect them to go after halo.
 
Discostew said:
I don't recall the link, but I can explain the situation on how the lower bandwidth on Switch 2 isn't bad compared to PS4/Pro (at least from my understanding).

PS4 (and Pro) needed high bandwidth because they still did traditional rendering into the main buffers in main RAM. Systems like the Xbox 360, Wii U, Xbox One, and Switch did things differently. Both the Wii U and Xbox One had 32MB of separate RAM, the former having eDRAM and the latter having eSRAM. These could hold full 1080p buffers and were much faster than main RAM, so rendering was done in those. The Xbox 360 had 10MB of eDRAM, but that wasn't enough for full buffers, so MS's approach was to split the main buffer into tiles, and render them in the fast eDRAM before copying back to the main RAM. This sped up rendering time considerably because it doesn't have to do numerous reads/writes per pixel in the slower main RAM. The Switch uses a similar approach in tile-rendering, except instead of having a separate RAM bank, it used cache on the die instead, making for quick communication with the GPU. That same technique is likely to be used with Switch 2, so even with just 120GB/s of RAM bandwidth compared to PS4's 176GB/s of RAM, Switch 2 is mainly using that bandwidth for reading in data into cache, and then writing completed tiles back.
Click to expand...
The Wii U eDRAM was god-tier, the most technically advanced feature in that system by far. 563.2GB/s as compared to the 109 GB/s for the eSRAM on the Xbox One.
 
Aether said:
I mean it can work, the problem was te cheap sci-fi story of MP3 and the cheap looking designs. That's why I'm curious how they handle the more narrative focused elements. Visually I don't expect them to go after halo.
Click to expand...
It did had a bit of cringe to it.
 
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