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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

How much frequency reduction do we expect for LPDDR5X on switch2's portable mode? If we run at 7500MT/s in default docking mode
 
Joined the forums to read the hidden content but I'm too dumb to understand it. I only understand this stuff in terms of Gamecubes duct taped together :(
I also joined the forums for the same reason and even though I don't understand most of the tech talk I've always found it interesting. Huge thank you to oldpuck and all the others who sometimes take time out of their day to explain it!
 
12GB is a huge win, as is UFS 3.1 storage, and finally DLSS. I cannot wait to see how this runs and looks in docked mode, which is where I play 99% of my Switch.

What a great day today is thanks to these leaks, and for Nintendo giving us a meaty Switch 2. Launch day, whenever it is, cannot come soon enough.
 
Hi guys, do you think that with all the leaks recently, the Switch 2 will be able to run MH Wilds?
Capcom just needs to put in the work tbh, and I think they will. After Rise sold like 8 million copies on Switch iirc, they'd be stupid to leave that market out to dry. It won't be an easy port, but the Series S version has to exist, so there's a base version to work off.
 
I'm happy about the 12 GB of ram but also disappointed that we'll probably have a fairly basic UI again, as I can't see them allocating a lot of that to the UI.
They can allocate 2 gigs to the OS and still have 2 more gigs of RAM usable than the Series S. They don't need another 2 gigs to add themes. Unless Nintendo wants to be ultra stingy and give devs like 11 gigs to work with, I'm sure the console will have a bit more personality.
 
Capcom just needs to put in the work tbh, and I think they will. After Rise sold like 8 million copies on Switch iirc, they'd be stupid to leave that market out to dry. It won't be an easy port, but the Series S version has to exist, so there's a base version to work off.
I think they will make it happen. Though the CPU demands of Dragons Dogma 2 do have me concerned that open world RE Engine games might be to much for the Switch 2 to handle.
 
I think they will make it happen. Though the crazy CPU demands of Dragons Dogma 2 do have me concerned that open world RE Engine games may be to much for the Switch 2 to handle.
I've been under the impression that the Switch 2's CPU will at the very least be on par with the Xbox Series' and PS5's CPUs since they're pretty terrible. Not sure if I'm right about that, but I know for a fact their CPUs are bad.
 
So if the internal storage is UFS 3.1 and can do ~2 GB/s of I/O, doesn't that mean that the Switch 2 carts and any expansion storage slots also have to match that throughput?

If game installs to the internal drive aren't required, then it would be kind of a waste to have that kind of internal drive bandwidth if the cartridges and expansion slots are slower, right?
 
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I've been under the impression that the Switch 2's CPU will at the very least be on par with the Xbox Series' and PS5's CPUs since they're pretty terrible. Not sure if I'm right about that, but I know for a fact their CPUs are bad.
The CPU cores will have slightly higher IPC but will no doubt run at a lower clock speed. I just don't see the Switch 2 matching 8 3.5-3.8Ghz Zen 2 cores.
 
I'm happy about the 12 GB of ram but also disappointed that we'll probably have a fairly basic UI again, as I can't see them allocating a lot of that to the UI.
Question.

Do you have a PS5, Series X, or do you use Steam?

Well, let me tell you, I have a gaming laptop, a Series X, PS5, and a Switch. And beside the games (Nintendo games are my favorites), the Switch OS is absolutely my favorite.

No bloat, no annoying social features or complicated settings, no achievements/trophies. Just games. The main focus is the games.

Can it be better? Sure. But I hope they keep it as simple as possible.
 
Question.

Do you have a PS5, Series X, or do you use Steam?

Well, let me tell you, I have a gaming laptop, a Series X, PS5, and a Switch. And beside the games (Nintendo games are my favorites), the Switch OS is absolutely my favorite.

No bloat, no annoying social features or complicated settings, no achievements/trophies. Just games. The main focus is the games.

Can it be better? Sure. But I hope they keep it as simple as possible.
It’s most likely gonna be the same with just smaller differences, since the Wii U OS was eating the ram and I think Nintendo doesn’t want that to happen again.
 
Switch UI > Steam Deck UI, in my experience.

I very much enjoy being able to ping any of my friends on Steam however, I wish some kind of chat were an option on Switch. But I am aware of Nintendo's wariness of Pictochat predators.
 
Yeah that would be on the software end of things. We'll learn more from Nintendo themselves if that were the case unless there's some apparent modularity with the chips or something.

Games who had issues with dipping fps due to lack of hardware grunt should, at least, run stable on the Switch 2, and no more dynamic resolution being applied.

As for enhancements, the rumoured Gamescom BotW 4k/60 demo gave us hope. I hope Nintendo delivers if they hope to continue the Switch ecosystem and continue to sell Switch software for the very long term.
 
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That seems unlikely; it seems it's possible it's between those BEFORE scaling, and notably with more GPU features than either, with faster RT. Post scaling comparisons are pointless; you can point to DLSS Ultra Performance mode and say it's like 2 PS5s taped together, which is nonsense.
This is exaggerating what the device is, I feel like the plot is being lost (again) and being taken and stretching architectural changes beyond what it should be viewed as. There’s “it’ll have an easier time performing X, Y, Z by 20% or so” and “there’s it’s basically a lot more powerful and does it all in 12W (not including the CPU or RAM)”

I know GCN is old, but A) T239 is literally a console chip and B) people should stop using the PS4 Pro and series S as points of comparison like this when it’s going to be severely power limited here.

Severely! A smaller GPU that runs within a smaller budget is not going to outdo a larger GPU that runs with a larger budget, sorry, that’s not how this is going to work. If it was, the Steam deck would be Steam rolling the switch 2 GPU 9 times out of 10.


If it was bigger I could see it. But it’s not bigger than the GPUs in the other two consoles.
Not sure if UFS 3.1 Storage would be that great for Nintendo since it is pretty outdated and already 4-5x slower than most PC SSDs. Pretty sure you can get 500gb NVMe with 2x this read/write speed for less than 50 bucks. Nintendo seems to have "cheeped out" on storage they could very likely get for less than 20 buck in bulk.
I’m confused by this line of thinking, you could A) get an NVMe drive in the system, clock it down significantly and reduce the overall performance or B) you can clock it down slightly and get most of the performance.
 
DF is convinced that it's Samsung 8 nm.

If Nate brings John onto the next podcast I hope they discuss this.

Is there anything from these recent findings that would have the potential to change John’s mind on the matter? I’ve not dug into things yet but I got the impression we’d only found out about RAM and Storage.
 
I'm happy about the 12 GB of ram but also disappointed that we'll probably have a fairly basic UI again, as I can't see them allocating a lot of that to the UI.
If the Wii U’s UI with all its flashiness used up 1GB, 2GB will be plenty for a UI that can be a bit better than basic but also quick.
 
With the hardware available, it can literally look like this:
Horizon_Forbidden_West_20220204150731_copy.jpg

god-of-war-ragnarok-ps4-performance.jpg

EdQnDdlWAAIV3R-

(PS4 Pro screenshots)

Obviously Zelda will have a different art style, but yeah it has the potential to look damn good.
DK_horizon.png
 
That sounds very pessimistic given what we know. That's 8nm talk.
Even on 4N you aren’t getting a 12 core GPU outclassing a 36 core GPU that easily, or a newer generation 20 core GPU.

Unless it does magic somehow or the others are clocked so obscenely low they aren’t even relevant.


Anyway, this is a console, the ps4 is a console, the 4 Pro is a console, the Series S is a console, these get bespoke work done to them and outdo what their specs entail. And most of these comparisons use a PC centric view at this when these aren’t traditional PCs! You ain’t getting the exact series S GPU, or Drake GPU, and sure as hell not getting any exact Sony implementation in PC. They are custom enough that it becomes a flawed comparison.


As an aside I don’t think consoles have been GPU limited in quite some time now.

Well, maybe now they are more so due to RT.
 
This is exaggerating what the device is, I feel like the plot is being lost (again) and being taken and stretching architectural changes beyond what it should be viewed as. There’s “it’ll have an easier time performing X, Y, Z by 20% or so” and “there’s it’s basically a lot more powerful and does it all in 12W (not including the CPU or RAM)”

I know GCN is old, but A) T239 is literally a console chip and B) people should stop using the PS4 Pro and series S as points of comparison like this when it’s going to be severely power limited here.

Severely! A smaller GPU that runs within a smaller budget is not going to outdo a larger GPU that runs with a larger budget, sorry, that’s not how this is going to work. If it was, the Steam deck would be Steam rolling the switch 2 GPU 9 times out of 10.


If it was bigger I could see it. But it’s not bigger than the GPUs in the other two consoles.

I’m confused by this line of thinking, you could A) get an NVMe drive in the system, clock it down significantly and reduce the overall performance or B) you can clock it down slightly and get most of the performance.
Using "lost plot" to describe a disagreement over something like this is a little extreme. I don't feel comfortable engaging with that rhetoric, sorry.
 
Hey all, been following this thread for what feels like forever now, but with the new info that's come out I can't help but feel incredibly optimistic regarding the next console.
I was always hopeful for the RAM and storage capacity, but actually feeling validated about it feels so surreal. I basically just need confirmation at some point that we're getting MH Wilds and I'll be set for the next couple years lol.
 
Is there anything from these recent findings that would have the potential to change John’s mind on the matter? I’ve not dug into things yet but I got the impression we’d only found out about RAM and Storage.
The presence of LPDDR5X has more folks leaning towards 4N, Thraktor mentions one possible reason.
Well, more bandwidth is always more better, even if you don't strictly need it.

The one thing which has me thinking this points more towards 4N is that Nvidia has an LPDDR5X memory controller that they could use for this; the one used on Grace. Grace taped out at around the same time as T239, and is manufactured on 4N. Admittedly it's not impossible that they separately developed a LPDDR5X controller for 8nm (or any other manufacturing process), but it does line up with my prior expectations on 4N and LPDDR5X.
And from my understanding the higher bandwidth provided by the RAM would serve a 4N system better as you could clock the SoC at higher speeds and avoid a bottleneck. On 8nm you wouldn't opt to clock as high and the higher bandwidth isn't as necessary.

Then there is the fact that LPDDR5X is newer, recent mobile devices like the M4 iPad and the Google Pixel line have just moved to using 5X RAM. So Nintendo are being conscious and forward thinking with their components - this mindset could extend to the process node, and 4N would set them up better for the long term.
 
Please do not dismiss a member's discomfort with your wording by using infantilizing language. - Lord Azrael, meatbag, MissingNo.
Using "lost plot" to describe a disagreement over something like this is a little extreme. I don't feel comfortable engaging with that rhetoric, sorry.
Girl you always do this.
 
Hey all, been following this thread for what feels like forever now, but with the new info that's come out I can't help but feel incredibly optimistic regarding the next console.
I was always hopeful for the RAM and storage capacity, but actually feeling validated about it feels so surreal. I basically just need confirmation at some point that we're getting MH Wilds and I'll be set for the next couple years lol.
Switch 2 will have enough GPU horsepower to run Monster Hunter Wilds. What we don't know if it will have enough CPU power. We have learned with Dragons Dogma 2 that open world RE Engine games are very hard on the CPU.
 
81yZjpOQC1L._AC_UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg

Kena4.jpg

Kena reminds me a bit of Zelda as well.

i would hope so, as its the studio that brought us this amazing piece of art


A lot of these UE5/4 demos of Nintendo properties just look like glossy CG renders and even some of the screens shared of next-gen/current-gen games don't impress me. They will look dated when the tech moves on.

I hope Nintendo evolves the Cell shaded look of BOTW , increase, foliage and geometry density and slather it with good lighting engine, RT , etc etc and that's all i need.
 
Question.

Do you have a PS5, Series X, or do you use Steam?

Well, let me tell you, I have a gaming laptop, a Series X, PS5, and a Switch. And beside the games (Nintendo games are my favorites), the Switch OS is absolutely my favorite.

No bloat, no annoying social features or complicated settings, no achievements/trophies. Just games. The main focus is the games.

Can it be better? Sure. But I hope they keep it as simple as possible.
I've got steam. I don't need a ton of useless bells and whistles, I just want themes and a more unique layout beyond the quick menu the Switch has.

...tho I wouldn't say no to another Weather Channel app, like that glorious one on the Wii.
If the Wii U’s UI with all its flashiness used up 1GB, 2GB will be plenty for a UI that can be a bit better than basic but also quick.
I thought the Wii U was 2 GBs, though tbh I didn't much care for the Wii Us UI, as it always looked lifeless imo.
 
I've got steam. I don't need a ton of useless bells and whistles, I just want themes and a more unique layout beyond the quick menu the Switch has.

...tho I wouldn't say no to another Weather Channel app, like that glorious one on the Wii.

I thought the Wii U was 2 GBs, though tbh I didn't much care for the Wii Us UI, as it always looked lifeless imo.
Wii U had 2GBs total. One for games, one for the OS.
 
This is exaggerating what the device is, I feel like the plot is being lost (again) and being taken and stretching architectural changes beyond what it should be viewed as. There’s “it’ll have an easier time performing X, Y, Z by 20% or so” and “there’s it’s basically a lot more powerful and does it all in 12W (not including the CPU or RAM)”

I know GCN is old, but A) T239 is literally a console chip and B) people should stop using the PS4 Pro and series S as points of comparison like this when it’s going to be severely power limited here.

Severely! A smaller GPU that runs within a smaller budget is not going to outdo a larger GPU that runs with a larger budget, sorry, that’s not how this is going to work. If it was, the Steam deck would be Steam rolling the switch 2 GPU 9 times out of 10.


If it was bigger I could see it. But it’s not bigger than the GPUs in the other two consoles.

I’m confused by this line of thinking, you could A) get an NVMe drive in the system, clock it down significantly and reduce the overall performance or B) you can clock it down slightly and get most of the performance.
I definitely agree people should temper their expectations in comparison to the series S, but are you saying docked switch 2 won't even be able to match PS4 Pro just from a raw horsepower perspective?
 
The presence of LPDDR5X has more folks leaning towards 4N, Thraktor mentions one possible reason.

And from my understanding the higher bandwidth provided by the RAM would serve a 4N system better as you could clock the SoC at higher speeds and avoid a bottleneck. On 8nm you wouldn't opt to clock as high and the higher bandwidth isn't as necessary.

Then there is the fact that LPDDR5X is newer, recent mobile devices like the M4 iPad and the Google Pixel line have just moved to using 5X RAM. So Nintendo are being conscious and forward thinking with their components - this mindset could extend to the process node, and 4N would set them up better for the long term.
Looking at the post you quoted, and looking at the post it linked to, and then looking at the post it quoted (confusing enough for you?),
So... should the clocks end up such that they nail a balance of both energy and silicon cost efficiency, how are you feeling about the odds of 7500 MT/s LPDDR5X to properly feed the thing? :p
This was quite prescient.
 
I tihnk the biggest obstacle to a sequel to Astral Chain is Platinum's current state and if they are able to get over the departure of Kamiya

Taura was in charge of AC, if I remember correctly part of Taura's team was working with Square on FFXVI combat system. So, i believe they'll be fine without Kamiya, it's not like his hands where in everything like people think, which is good IMO. Now ff xvi is done and AC2 can continue its way (I think the sequel is a given, since the success of the first one!!!).
 
Does the shipping info confirm the rumor about scroll wheel buttons in Switch 2? or nah?
Not to that kind of detail, no. But in general, we know there's a L and R controller still yes. Tablet, joycons, and all. Magnet on side of each joycon, and 2 magnets on the tablet, one for each side.

I think "holder" shipment entries we saw would be for rails part (so both rails and magnet hold the joycon in place).
 
It's strange that no one ever seems to discuss the "horsepower" comparison criteria, it's true that we are most likely inferior to the ps4pro when it comes to floating point performance, but we all seem to recognize that the new graphics features (dlss) as well as ray tracing bring us 9th gen advanced rendering and lighting technology, .The only "horsepower" comparison criteria left seems to be polygon count, since the switch2 has fewer shaders compared to 9th gen consoles like the xss, but I really don't think the switch2 will have less polygons than the ps4pro.
 
I'm not the biggest fan of estimates given in terms of last gen consoles like PS4-like or whatever. I know it has its use, but there's just so many differences in architecture, RAM type and capacity, storage, GPU feature set... there are certain PS4 titles that the Switch 2 would eat for breakfast. And it's also weird when a common comparison is to a Pro console, which had no exclusives and its raster power was used to render PS4 games at higher resolutions, so the discussion just gets muddy. Like if we're saying 'its a PS4 in handheld but much better CPU, more RAM, better GPU' then the comparison starts to lose its potency. But I also personally don't like when the Switch is called a portable Xbox 360, so I'm particularly finicky.

These comparisons have been useful in the context of this thread where there's an ongoing consensus but now that they've been regurgitated across the Internet without the benefit of having others clarify, there's just been a mess of expectations. That and we don't even have clock speeds yet to further ground these estimates.
When casuals ask me about the Switch 2 I will now refer to it as a "PS5 mini".
 
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Not to that kind of detail, no. But in general, we know there's a L and R controller still yes. Tablet, joycons, and all. Magnet on side of each joycon, and 2 magnets on the tablet, one for each side.

I think "holder" shipment entries we saw would be for rails part (so both rails and magnet hold the joycon in place).
Ah, I see, so there is no information about the details of each joycon (like trigger button, A/B/X/Y buttons etc) but rather only information that there will be joycons regardless its specifications?

For "holder" it kinda makes sense considering the leaked information that said Switch joycon can be used in Switch 2. But it will be hilarious if the magnet is actually for vertical grip like this:

Flip Grip - Fangamer
 
When docked the Switch will be better than the PS4 Pro. With DLSS enabled and in games that are more RAM hungry it will beat the Series S.

The Series S is really held back by RAM.
This is still an optimistic statement, by 9th gen standards, while switch2 has a separate ray tracing core and NVIDIA's custom graphics features, the significant gap in shader count will make switch2 not have enough polygons to compare to 9th gen consoles, and even though it is stretched to a higher resolution via dlss, the resolution is the resolution, it still doesn't change the shaderThe number lags behind resulting in actual visuals that are inferior to 9th gen consoles.
 
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