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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

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Everyone here agrees that the switch pokemon games look and run like poopoo, so better off without this disussion.

The switch 2 could be as powerful as the ps5 pro and the games will continue to look like appstore shovelware.
 
darthdiablo said:
Edit: I realize with premium subscription to shipment data one can see number of units, I guess that's how they were able to tell it's 2x of. Makes sense.
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Does anyone have premium subscription?

Even without evidence, just from a common sense perspective the likelihood of it being 6, 18 or 24 is just not worth considering imo.
 
Hermii said:
Does anyone have premium subscription?

Even without evidence, just from a common sense perspective the likelihood of it being 6, 18 or 24 is just not worth considering imo.
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Yes, I know LiC (or at least one in his circles) do. We've discussed that before.

It's actually not expensive either. Like $7 a month. I've considered it before, but decided not to opt for it.

Agree it's a common sense scenario - also why I didn't question the 12GB in the last 18 hours since the discover.

Then it occurred to me, LiC doesn't normally make claims without explicit proof, so I guess he was able to determine it from # of units in shipments.
 
darthdiablo said:
Yes, I know LiC (or at least one in his circles) do. We've discussed that before.

It's actually not expensive either. Like $5 a month or so. I've considered it before, but decided not to opt for it.

Yes, I agree it's a common sense scenario - also why I didn't question the 12GB in the last 18 hours since the discover.

Then it occurred to me, LiC doesn't normally make claims without explicit proof, so I guess he was able to determine it from # of units in shipments.
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Ah I thought it was thousands a year. And not possible to opt in for a few months. I looked into it once we started looking at shipments. Must have been another thing I looked at.
 
ILikeFeet said:
These specs aren't anything out of the ordinary. You get phones with these specs for the same price. And that's with the expensive stuff like modems and whatnot
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I argued with that the last few years. The fact ist: you cant compare 1:1, a) 12GB ram are not the same in all devices (bandwidth, quality control), the SOC will be way more expensive then at those devices you can find in that price range with those specs.

Then you have the fact that many of the cheaper ones don't have UFS 3.1 but often still use 2.1-3.0.
Next: its 5 devices, 2 are the joy cons with their own battery board and mechanical components, 1 is the console, 1 the dock, and 1 the power supply.

i know, modem and camera are expensive parts, but the overall assembly will not be 1:1 comparable to cheap phones with high specs. And unlike phones it don't think it can ship without charger and dock, except they managed to get it to work with the old one. Then i could see a "upgrade" sku with just the switch2 and new joy cons, and a full one for 100$ more, the dock and charger (and maybe more storage or 6 months of nintendo online or something like that).

Then it would be the Wii U situation again...
 
Hermii said:
Ah I thought it was thousands a year. And not possible to opt in for a few months. I looked into it once we started looking at shipments. Must have been another thing I looked at.
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Yeah I remember that "thousands of dollars" mention too - must have been for a different one. Or a top tier membership. The $7 per month was for bottom tier (and monthly, don't have to pay up for like a year upfront)
 
For comparison the Google Pixel 8a (which is available for pre-order, so not released yet), is $559 for 256 GB UFS 3.1 storage and 8 GB LPDDR5X storage.
However - there's also two cameras (64 MP and 13 MP), a 1080x2400 120 Hz Gorilla Glass OLED HDR screen, 5G connectivity, fingerprint sensor, wireless charging, and so on. The Pixel 8 Pro has 256 GB UFS 3.1 and 12 GB LPDDR5X RAM like the Switch 2, with a $1000+ pricetag. But there's like a bunch more cameras and other bells and whistles.

Aside from the IR sensor(s) on joy con, I don't expect a camera like the one on the 3DS. We anticipate the screen to be 7.91 inches LCD with HDR support. And I don't expect a surplus of extra features on the tablet or joy-con. So I think $400 - $449 remains reasonable. I don't really know how much all those extra components on a phone cost vs. the tech in the joy con and dock.
 
You don't have to worry about AAA third party support on Switch 2... we're fine guys
I'm curious to see the NVIDIA tech applied to those games
 
darthdiablo said:
Yes, I know LiC (or at least one in his circles) do. We've discussed that before.

It's actually not expensive either. Like $7 a month. I've considered it before, but decided not to opt for it.

Agree it's a common sense scenario - also why I didn't question the 12GB in the last 18 hours since the discover.

Then it occurred to me, LiC doesn't normally make claims without explicit proof, so I guess he was able to determine it from # of units in shipments.
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Not necessary. The specific RAM module from Micron mentioned in the data (this one) has a bus width of 64 bits. We know from the Nvidia hack that the T239 memory controller is 128-bit, ergo the maximum is 12 GB.
 
Serif said:
For comparison the Google Pixel 8a (which is available for pre-order, so not released yet), is $559 for 256 GB UFS 3.1 storage and 8 GB LPDDR5X storage.
However - there's also two cameras (64 MP and 13 MP), a 1080x2400 120 Hz Gorilla Glass OLED HDR screen, 5G connectivity, fingerprint sensor, wireless charging, and so on. The Pixel 8 Pro has 256 GB UFS 3.1 and 12 GB LPDDR5X RAM like the Switch 2, with a $1000+ pricetag. But there's like a bunch more cameras and other bells and whistles.

Aside from the IR sensor(s) on joy con, I don't expect a camera like the one on the 3DS. We anticipate the screen to be 7.91 inches LCD with HDR support. And I don't expect a surplus of extra features on the tablet or joy-con. So I think $400 - $449 remains reasonable. I don't really know how much all those extra components on a phone cost vs. the tech in the joy con and dock.
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Isnt Steam Deck much better for comparison than mobile phone?
 
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Thought this site got Nintendo ninja'd. (was getting 503'd for a bit)
 
darthdiablo said:
famiboards.com

Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

They really need to stop using a web browser for it and instead make a proper client lmao They can sell it like it is a gimmick that comes with Redacted
famiboards.com famiboards.com
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Thank you, but I have already seen that. However, it is not clear to me what is meant by "March shipment data". Are these shipments from suppliers? If so, where does such information come from?
 
JetstreamRorschach said:
I know the ScarVio games are utterly broken, what I'm trying to say is that a new game with this artstyle and a budget higher than Famiboards server costs could look good.

ScarVio in original hardware is one of the worst experiences I've paid for.
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I...honestly dont even like the artstyle. Arceus kinda worked, but i really dont think the artstyle looks that great...for the sorroundings. For the mons it works, for the main characters it works, even if i prefered the old more anime oriented one.
But characters where never the problem with S/V, the sorroundings just dont...look that good.
Serif said:
For comparison the Google Pixel 8a (which is available for pre-order, so not released yet), is $559 for 256 GB UFS 3.1 storage and 8 GB LPDDR5X storage.
However - there's also two cameras (64 MP and 13 MP), a 1080x2400 120 Hz Gorilla Glass OLED HDR screen, 5G connectivity, fingerprint sensor, wireless charging, and so on. The Pixel 8 Pro has 256 GB UFS 3.1 and 12 GB LPDDR5X RAM like the Switch 2, with a $1000+ pricetag. But there's like a bunch more cameras and other bells and whistles.

Aside from the IR sensor(s) on joy con, I don't expect a camera like the one on the 3DS. We anticipate the screen to be 7.91 inches LCD with HDR support. And I don't expect a surplus of extra features on the tablet or joy-con. So I think $400 - $449 remains reasonable. I don't really know how much all those extra components on a phone cost vs. the tech in the joy con and dock.
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Yeah. 400€ can be realistic, but it will be hard to hit, 450€ sounds reasonable, 500€ possible.
And while you mentioned aspects the phone has but not the switch: the switch has joy cons, dock and charger.
Buy a charger from any of the reputable big providers that delivers 45W+ over usb, and you're at 35-40$ retail price alone.
Yavga said:
Bringing back the discussion to hardware...

Earlier I asked whether a wifi/sattelite chip would fit in a JoyCon. What I was going for was thinking about how Streetpass could work without taking the entire console along, or is Streetpass basically replaced by the smartphone apps while being connected to your account?
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Ah, thats what you meant. I mean, sure. I hope with satelite you don't mean a real satelite connection (then we could expect double the planned price). But wifi, could work. The question is more: why.

First: it already has bluetooth, so you can use bluetooth low energy for that and have the same effect with less bandwidth/range (but a couple meters indoor and 100 meters outdoor should be plenty...)

then you need a small microcontroller that constantly comunicates.

So... i think technically with a firmware update they could have implemented that with the current joy cons (there is a tiny amount of storage, if you do "dry" runs with the ring from ringfit it can count up a number and then transmits to the game later what you did.).

But as you sad, with everybody having their phone with them all the time, i dont think its to be expected.
 
GuardianStalker said:
Thank you, but I have already seen that. However, it is not clear to me what is meant by "March shipment data". Are these shipments from suppliers? If so, where does such information come from?
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Publicly available customs data. Shipments between suppliers and buyers, yes.

"March shipment data" is because the customs data operate on a 2-month delay. We won't be seeing April shipment data until early June.
 
It seems like we’ve been regularly having issues during this window the last few days which points to some other issue, trying to figure it out still.
 
toki98 said:
thanks to all of you for the amazing work on the shipment data. 12 gb was always the safest bet.
Is lpddr5x power hungrier than lpddr5?
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LPDDR5X is more efficient per clock, no?

This thing seems to be very power efficient all around, and not particularly thick, so more reason to think 4N.
 
Simba1 said:
Isnt Steam Deck much better for comparison than mobile phone?
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arguably not, phones are way closer to the sell through rate that nintendo is aiming for then the Steam Deck.

It took maybe a year or so for valve to announce 3M sold, i expect more then that in the launch month.
 
darthdiablo said:
Hey, on the bright side, maybe Pokemon games would actually look better on Switch 2?

I looked over recent shipment discussion - wondering what made us think it's 12GB, as opposed to say, 18GB? Just 12GB is more realistic scenario?

Edit: I realize with premium subscription to shipment data one can see number of units, I guess that's how they were able to tell it's 2x of. Makes sense.
Click to expand...
The SoC has a 128-bit bus. The 6GB module is 64-bit. If they only put one, you waste half of the bus which wasn't free and get half of the bandwidth.

To use more than 2 you would need some complex engineering to switch RAM modules on the fly. It's simpler and cheaper to use 2 of a higher capacity like 8GB or 12GB.

And the Steam Deck uses 4x 32-bit 4GB modules, which is another option, in case anyone is wondering.
 
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GuardianStalker said:
Thank you, but I have already seen that. However, it is not clear to me what is meant by "March shipment data". Are these shipments from suppliers? If so, where does such information come from?
Click to expand...
Such data is usually from Nintendo Co., Ltd. in Japan to Hosiden Viet Nam Co., Ltd. (their main console manufacturer), and shipments like these have to be publicly disclosed. They just don't count on people like us knowing the codes for everything.
 
darthdiablo said:
Hey, on the bright side, maybe Pokemon games would actually look better on Switch 2?

I looked over recent shipment discussion - wondering what made us think it's 12GB, as opposed to say, 18GB? Just 12GB is more realistic scenario?

Edit: I realize with premium subscription to shipment data one can see number of units, I guess that's how they were able to tell it's 2x of. Makes sense.
Click to expand...
Don't even need that premium subscription. We know from the Nvidia hack that T239 has a 128-bit memory bus. Two 64-bit 6 GB sticks of RAM = 128-bit memory.
 
Serif said:
I am directly comparing LPDDR5X to LPDDR5X and UFS 3.1 to UFS 3.1, the Steam Deck uses LPDDR5 RAM and an NVMe SSD.
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Yes, but those those two things make much smaller difference than comparing with phone that has "64 MP and 13 MP, 1080x2400 120 Hz Gorilla Glass OLED HDR screen, 5G connectivity, fingerprint sensor, wireless charging, and so on"...
 
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So, I guess we will have to wait until release date and then wait for X-Rays to get information about the lithography process?

Is that information that Nintendo/Nvidia publicly provided for the Switch 1?
 
darthdiablo said:
Publicly available customs data. Shipments between suppliers and buyers, yes.

"March shipment data" is because the customs data operate on a 2-month delay. We won't be seeing April shipment data until early June.
Click to expand...
redmutineer75 said:
Such data is usually from Nintendo Co., Ltd. in Japan to Hosiden Viet Nam Co., Ltd. (their main console manufacturer), and shipments like these have to be publicly disclosed. They just don't count on people like us knowing the codes for everything.
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Thank you very much. Now I understand it a little better.(y)
 
Jake said:
Do you think the Switch 2 will support the microSD cards from Switch 1 or will we have to buy new ones made specifically for Switch 2?
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Usually MicroSD readers on these things are "retrocompatible". Meaning, you can use a very old MicroSD on a very new reader, it just won't be super fast because it will be held back by the own MicroSD's tech limitations. You should be fine with the one you have
 
Serif said:
For comparison the Google Pixel 8a (which is available for pre-order, so not released yet), is $559 for 256 GB UFS 3.1 storage and 8 GB LPDDR5X storage.
However - there's also two cameras (64 MP and 13 MP), a 1080x2400 120 Hz Gorilla Glass OLED HDR screen, 5G connectivity, fingerprint sensor, wireless charging, and so on. The Pixel 8 Pro has 256 GB UFS 3.1 and 12 GB LPDDR5X RAM like the Switch 2, with a $1000+ pricetag. But there's like a bunch more cameras and other bells and whistles.

Aside from the IR sensor(s) on joy con, I don't expect a camera like the one on the 3DS. We anticipate the screen to be 7.91 inches LCD with HDR support. And I don't expect a surplus of extra features on the tablet or joy-con. So I think $400 - $449 remains reasonable. I don't really know how much all those extra components on a phone cost vs. the tech in the joy con and dock.
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gsmarena shows 273 results for phones with 256GB storage, 12GB RAM from 2017 to 2024
 
Given the Steam Deck limits the memory bandwidth available to the CPU to 25 GB/s to prioritise GPU bandwidth, it may be possible to use a CPU bandwidth estimate to 'work back' to the GPU's reserved bandwidth, its estimated TFLOPs, and thus, its clock speed.

Based on Oldpuck's Ampere bandwidth/TFLOP chart, we can assume an Ampere GPU has on average 25.38 GB/s per TFLOP
Hidden content is only available for registered users. Sharing it outside of Famiboards is subject to moderation.
 
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FernandoRocker said:
So, I guess we will have to wait until release date and then wait for X-Rays to get information about the lithography process?

Is that information that Nintendo/Nvidia publicly provided for the Switch 1?
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To know for sure yes. But if we know clock speed we can make a very educated guess.

They just aren't going to get 600mhz working on 8nm. Probably not on any node worse than 4nm.
 
Simba1 said:
Yes, but those those two things make much smaller difference than comparing with phone that has "64 MP and 13 MP, 1080x2400 120 Hz Gorilla Glass OLED HDR screen, 5G connectivity, fingerprint sensor, wireless charging, and so on"...
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People were questioning how the revealed specs would impact a potential $400-450 pricepoint. I compared with mass market mobile devices that have that RAM type and storage to see a price ballpark. The point of my post is that the bells and whistles on a phone would drive up the cost.

I've already made comparisons with the Steam Deck pages ago. The base OLED Steam Deck is $550 with 16 GB LPDDR5 RAM and 512 GB NVME SSD with an OLED HDR 90 Hz display.
 
I see some people in Fami worried about the heat output for the Switch successor. I'm confident Nintendo has been seriously considering the temperature of the console in handheld and in docked mode, especially since this is a console that children will be handling for extended amounts of time.
 
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