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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)
- Thread starter Dakhil
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Stinky Horse
Bob-omb
It could be literally anyone who's met with a publisher that wants in on Nintendo's next system. why can't it be someone small?
As an example I randomly found this one that checks all the boxes:
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FF16 drops as low as 720p in performance mode
Immortals of Aveum is 720p standard
Avatar can go as low as 864p in performance mode
There are some more I might be forgetting that drops as low as 720p
redmutineer75
Bob-omb
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All Switch and no 2 makes Jack a dull boy.
redmutineer75
Bob-omb
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The problem is that the demographic of gamers willing to shell out over a grand on a 90-tier GPU every generation is a pretty small one. A lot of people got a 3090 Ti or a 2080 Ti, hell, even a 1080 Ti, are satisfied with it, and will continue to game on it well past its obsolescence. Sure, it's nice to have the latest and greatest, but for most people, that is by no means a necessity. I myself am looking to get a 4070 SUPER this year, and it'll be my gaming workhorse until I'm out of college.
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navierStokes
Octorok
720p internal resolution is primarily prevalent in performance modes with a 60fps target.
Thus the overall visual IQ can be lower depending on the title (e.g. certain post-processing effects are missing or shadow and lighting quality takes a hit). Moreover, consoles also often use bespoke optimisations that are not available on PC (e.g. running RT effects at quarter resolution or BVH's being lower in quality).
Most figures are taken from analyses on launch day or post-launch after a big patch.
Performance modes with a sub-1080p internal resolution:
- FF XVI: 720p internal resolution in battles with FSR1 upscaling to 1080p. Achieving near-perfect frametime consistency
- Remnant II: ~720p internal resolution with TSR upscaling & dynamic resolution scaling upscaling to ~1440p. Framerate is unstable to hit that 60fps target and thus high variance in frametimes when playing.
- Lords of the Fallen: 2048x1152p dynamic resolution with a lower bound of 1152x648p. Uses upscaling. Can't maintain its 60fps target in all areas.
- Avatar Frontiers of Pandora: dynamic resolution that goes as low as 720p. Uses FSR 2 upscaling to 1440p.
- Alan Wake 2: "Performance mode again uses FSR 2, but this time with an output of 1440p and an internal resolution of 847p". Generally can hit its 60fps target well, but dips below the target in outdoor areas.
- Jedi Survivor: Jedi survivor received a post-launch patch that removed RT effects in its performance mode. Previously it had a base resolution of around ~720p with an output target of 1440p with FSR2 upscaling. Now it's close to 1080p. With the newest version, it can hit its 60fps target quite well, whereas previously it could be well below 60fps with lows in the 30s.
- Skull & Bones: 720p with FSR2 upscaling to 1440p. Minor drops, but generally hits its target well.
- Dead Space: ~936p with FSR2 upscaling to 1440p.
- Forspoken: Launched with 720p in its performance mode, but after the latest patch that has been improved significantly. With the game looking better and even performing better, indicating its rough state at launch. Resolution is now roughly around 1080p with the lowest pixel count being 828p. Now meets its performance target with minor dips.
It can be observed that most UE titles are quite unstable with their performance target, whereas the ones made in proprietary engines are optimised to meet that 60fps target.
Moreover, two first-party exclusives are from Square Enix and I presume they still have certain technical debts in their tooling and engine. FF XVI is a title that will likely receive updates in the future so it's curious to see how it'll end up.
The conclusions regarding the bottlenecks vary, I think generally UE5 games that have been released target 30fps. Whether that'll improve in the future depends on the next wave of UE5 titles built on the latest version of the engine.
How it relates to the Switch 2 is another story, we've seen how some of these games are really rough on a handheld such as the Steam Deck or ROG Ally as they're bottlenecked by the CPU, GPU or memory bandwidth (combined). However, these handhelds run the PC build of the game, which is not a problem for the Switch 2 as it'll have its own bespoke build.
Moreover, the optimists in me hope that any of these titles built with UE5 right now, should appear on the switch in the latter half of the current generation (PS5 & Xbox Series) as they'll need to be "ported" over to the switch 2 with a later build of UE.
- [1]: https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfo...close-to-flawless-as-weve-seen-in-a-long-time
- [2]: https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfo...nreal-engine-5-nanite-and-a-current-gen-focus
- [3]: https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfo...unning-ue5-soulslike-with-ongoing-tech-issues
- [4]: https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2023-avatar-frontiers-of-pandora-optimised-settings
- [5]: https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfo...-the-bar-for-visual-accomplishment-once-again
- [6]: https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfo...performance-mode-we-should-have-had-at-launch
- [7]: https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfo...good-the-bad-the-ugly-and-the-utterly-bizarre
- [8]: https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfo...emake-ps5-xbox-series-xs-performance-analysis
- [9]:
Also, a general overview is collected by a user at Resetera:
PS5 Games Tech Details - Resolution, Frame Rate, Backwards Compatibility, and more
PLAYSTATION 5 PERFORMANCE THREAD Greatness Awaits Here's a list of PS5 games and Backwards Compatible PS4 games with their Resolution and Frame Rate. You can find information on PS5 Features and Enhancements such as 4K, 60 FPS, Ray Tracing, VRR, DualSense, HDR, 3D Audio and 120 FPS. Search for...
www.resetera.com
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Hosermess
Koopa
that job posting is all fluff...definitely a small studio...not sure the big ones need to go through a recruiter anyway
OctoSplattack
Chain Chomp
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All of Nintendo's studios have put so much work into their own internal engines that it would be odd to see any of them ditching what they currently have in favor of Unreal.
SoldierDelta
Designated Xenoblade Loremaster
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After sitting on it, I think my confusion was overblown yeah. It's likely just a smaller team using UE5. Not entirely sure about the next-gen comment but idk, there are weirder things on earth.
that job posting is all fluff...definitely a small studio...not sure the big ones need to go through a recruiter anyway
Another point to make is the comparison to other games. A AA-game comparing itself to games like Overcooked and Party Animals is very out-of-character for Nintendo, regardless of studio. I'll accept the L here.
I won't retract my accidental Canadian prejudice though. The out of context comment is funny.
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Well, the chances of actual seeing ReDraketed this summer turned a littlebit slimmer, Nintendo won't attend GamesCom 2024 as an exhibitor.
www.eurogamer.de
Hiobsbotschaft für die gamescom 2024: Dieser Big Player ist nicht dabei
Nintendo hat angekündigt, dass man in diesem Jahr nicht an der gamescom teilnehmen wird!
www.eurogamer.de
SirArthur
Kremling
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Yeah the quote from the spokeswoman was interesting:Well, the chances of actual seeing ReDraketed this summer turned a littlebit slimmer, Nintendo won't attend GamesCom 2024 as an exhibitor.
Hiobsbotschaft für die gamescom 2024: Dieser Big Player ist nicht dabei
Nintendo hat angekündigt, dass man in diesem Jahr nicht an der gamescom teilnehmen wird!
My guess is that they arent too happy about the leaks last year and/or their upcoming marketing and events budgets is for the switch 2 so going to Gamescom would be an additional expense
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I'm not concerned about that too much, it doesn't change things either way.Well, the chances of actual seeing ReDraketed this summer turned a littlebit slimmer, Nintendo won't attend GamesCom 2024 as an exhibitor.
Hiobsbotschaft für die gamescom 2024: Dieser Big Player ist nicht dabei
Nintendo hat angekündigt, dass man in diesem Jahr nicht an der gamescom teilnehmen wird!
If they announce this thing in the next few months, but then are not releasing it until 2025, they aren't going to be at any events.
They are probably going to announce the thing, then in January have a big blowout event, just like the original.
But at this point, I actually think they may copy the Switch cycle wholesale.
In the next few months, announce that it is coming. Maybe announce a few games that are coming to it(like Metroid Prime 4). They did the same thing with NX and BotW. But don't release any footage of the new hardware, or the games running on it. This also gives cover for third parties to actually acknowledge the thing.
October comes: have a short 3 minute teaser, showcase glimpses of new games coming to launch window.
January comes: Nintendo has a huge blowout event.
February comes, and Nintendo puts out a huge superbowl trailer
January-March, Nintendo attends every event possible, does a huge Blitz until launch.
Steve
Koopa
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navierStokes
Octorok
I don't think the rumours from Gamescom are a great concern for Nintendo as they're not grounded on the basis of leaked footage, but rather word-of-mouth. Combined with the rumours of the device having its target in early 2025.
So yeah it would be an additional expense as they really don't have anything grand to show.
SoldierDelta
Designated Xenoblade Loremaster
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Yeah, I think it's just that Nintendo doesn't want further leaks, especially since job post this morning heavily implied that Devkits have been sent out.
Confirmation that the Gamescom leaks were real is nice tho. That unknown Nintendo spokeswoman, you're the real hero.
navierStokes
Octorok
BTW when you say Drake you mean Drake @ 8nm not the cooler Drake with a smaller process node aka Drake @ 4nm .
afaik them Drake ain't the same.
afaik them Drake ain't the same.
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we flew too close to the sun, drake bros!
probably not too much point since they won't have much left for switch and Drake might be announced beforehand but not playable
Might really be a bad year for software. They're not shy to have a lot of demo stations for stuff like Everybody 1-2-Switch even if they have "exciting" new software just released or releasing sometime after Gamescom.
This feels like "We don't really have anything worthy to showcase and people will just complain if we do the casual stuff demos again."
Aether
Tingle
Yeah... That's actually grim. That could mean they also don't have many games to promote ..Well, the chances of actual seeing ReDraketed this summer turned a littlebit slimmer, Nintendo won't attend GamesCom 2024 as an exhibitor.
Hiobsbotschaft für die gamescom 2024: Dieser Big Player ist nicht dabei
Nintendo hat angekündigt, dass man in diesem Jahr nicht an der gamescom teilnehmen wird!
I'm really curious if they will wait till fall to show some H2 games or if they will have a showcase in the summer.
probably. the oft rumored Fire Emblem remake and Metroid Prime 4 are the only games after June that we reasonably know of. those aren't the best games for short demos
Steve
Koopa
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Hopefully the switch 2 Dev kit looks absolutely ridiculous, in which we can continue doom posting.
Something similar to the Ps5
SoldierDelta
Designated Xenoblade Loremaster
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An eshop demo for FE4R is probably the most we're going to get, if that.
still better looking than the PS5 we ended up withHopefully the switch 2 Dev kit looks absolutely ridiculous, in which we can continue doom posting.
Something similar to the Ps5
I am 100% sure this is absolutely nothing, for one big reason: this LinkedIn post is AI-generated text.
Game Recruiter on LinkedIn: #gamerecruiter #gamejobs #unrealengine #leadprogrammer #nintendo…
🎮 HIRING a Lead Unreal Engine Programmer! Our client is on a mission to create a groundbreaking casual, cooperative party game for Nintendo's next-gen…www.linkedin.com
I guarantee you it's nothing, and a Nintendo first-party studio wouldn't advertise through a third-party recruiter this way.
darthdiablo
+5 Death Stare
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(deleted dupe)
darthdiablo
+5 Death Stare
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This is hilarious. Is it me or are those vents really blowing hot hair back into the vents on the other side of that "wedge" shape?Hopefully the switch 2 Dev kit looks absolutely ridiculous, in which we can continue doom posting.
Something similar to the Ps5
omniryu
Like Like
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I am convinced 720p and gamecube controllers are vampires.
That's.... a very positive attitude.
kvetcha
hoopy frood
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might be passive.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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Six fans, three on either side, pulling air from the centre and out the sides. It's certainly not a quiet design, but it allows development kits to be stacked, I'm pretty sure. Xbox One X and Xbox Series X development kits are designed so they pull air in the sides and exhaust it out the rear for that reason. The left side of the "V" shape is the actual heat sink, the right side is the power supply.
navierStokes
Octorok
The patent reveals more details; https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2020111274
FIG 6 shows the fan and heatsink layout
MP!
Like Like
That’s the intake
It’s so you can stack them
darthdiablo
+5 Death Stare
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Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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The PS5 cooling system is surprisingly similar; if it was box shaped, they'd be stackable! Instead of two "wings", PS5 essentially just has the left wing (with a very similar heat sink layout) with a big intake fan.
Xbox Series X is like this, funnily enough. When laid on its side, it intakes from the left and exhausts on the right, straight through, and they can be stacked.
I don't think anyone thinks it's a first party study. It is quite likely that the studio are a medium or small independent studio that needs to hire a recruiter for finding workers.
And I don't know where you get that the text is made with AI, I don't see any signs of that.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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I don't expect to see major changes in the cooling layout of the next system, they pretty much got it right first try with Switch then refined it on OLED Model. I could see them going with additional intakes. Say, a wraparound kickstand with two slots above it and two slots below it. This would also line up with the intake slots on the Nintendo Switch Dock with LAN Port. I'd expect fan size to be closer to Nintendo Switch than OLED Model, same for cooling pipe and heat sink. It's a pretty good design. I'd like to see the exhaust redesigned again, just for fun.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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What? That logic doesn't follow.
If they have a new console to reveal, it wouldn't be at GamesCom, and if it's not out for nearly a year, they wouldn't be up to demoing it ar GamesCom. If anything this means they're pulling back from events where they'd normally push Nintendo Switch.
GamesCom just isn't a good fit for a new console that isn't even out yet. Nintendo would much prefer to control their own demonstrations of it, control their own marketing, and depend on no-one else. Once it's out in the wild, then show it off at next GamesCom.
Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
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Source on this? Seems to go against everything we heard about the "delay".
I work with this sort of stuff on a daily basis and can instantly tell (way too heavy utilization of adjectives), but you can also use tools that check writing for signs of being AI-generated like GPTZero and immediately see that it's absolutely written by AI. GPTZero, in this case, is highly confident that it is AI-written.
If that's not enough, though, one look at the profile tells you that they utilize AI-generated imagery in many posts, and their website is rife with AI-generated garbage.
The posting was written by AI and is unimportant in the larger conversation about Nintendo's next gen.
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You have a source for this?
It would be really weird for Nintendo to tell partners to prepare for launch this year, then tell partners it's delayed, only to change plans that it's actually coming this year. Unless they are actively trying to muddy waters and prevent leaks(which isn't out of the realm of possibility). But that's pretty unlikely.
darthdiablo
+5 Death Stare
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Oh how I wish..
darthdiablo
+5 Death Stare
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Did he frame it as speculation on his part, or did he state that with complete certainty?
Truno
Koopa
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His discussion around pricing (believes it’ll be $399) sounded like speculation. His answer on power sounded definitive
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When I was young
I never needed anyone
And making love was just for fun
Those days are gone
Livin' alone
I think of all the friends I've known
When I dial the telephone
Nobody's home
All by myself
Don't wanna be
All by myself anymore
Hard to be sure
Sometimes I feel so insecure
And love's so distant and obscure
Remains the cure
All by myself
Don't wanna be all by myself anymore
All by myself, I don't wanna live
Don't wanna be all by myself anymore
When I was young
I never needed anyone
And making love was just for fun
Those days are gone
All by myself
Don't wanna be all by myself anymore
Ohh... ohhhh
All by myself, don't wanna live
Ehh, eh eh... ehhhh
Don't wanna live by myself, by myself anymore...
By myself
I never needed anyone
And making love was just for fun
Those days are gone
Livin' alone
I think of all the friends I've known
When I dial the telephone
Nobody's home
All by myself
Don't wanna be
All by myself anymore
Hard to be sure
Sometimes I feel so insecure
And love's so distant and obscure
Remains the cure
All by myself
Don't wanna be all by myself anymore
All by myself, I don't wanna live
Don't wanna be all by myself anymore
When I was young
I never needed anyone
And making love was just for fun
Those days are gone
All by myself
Don't wanna be all by myself anymore
Ohh... ohhhh
All by myself, don't wanna live
Ehh, eh eh... ehhhh
Don't wanna live by myself, by myself anymore...
By myself
i just expect Nintendo to follow Switch's pattern.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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- She/Her
In terms of CPU, I have no doubt he's correct. In terms of FLOP, in handheld mode, I think it's complicated. I think NG Switch will have "more" but, there's a difference between an Nvidia and an AMD FLOP.
Then there's DLSS and the fact it's a dedicated console.
It's not going to cleanly fit into ideas of more or less powerful, from what we know.
Then there's DLSS and the fact it's a dedicated console.
It's not going to cleanly fit into ideas of more or less powerful, from what we know.
Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
Oh, maybe I didn't express myself accurately, sorry, I meant my speculation, Nintendo obviously wanted to circumvent the draw of gamescom on gamers' attention and chose not to participate in gamescom, so the most reasonable guess would be that the closest month to gamescom such as September would be the month where Nintendo would most likely be able to tease the outside world of the new console
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