BlueManifest
Bob-omb
I got it backwards they thought the launch switch was going to be 16 and it ended up being 20No, the current Switch is 12nm. The original was 20nm.
I got it backwards they thought the launch switch was going to be 16 and it ended up being 20No, the current Switch is 12nm. The original was 20nm.
Everyone did think the switch would be 16nm, instead we got an off the shelf tx1 at 20.Wasn’t 8nm always the rumor though?
I remember everyone thought the current switch would be 12nm for sure and it ended up at 16nm
If that’s true it could point to a stationary switch supplemental system, or a larger hybrid switch with bigger batteryEveryone did think the switch would be 16nm, instead we got an off the shelf tx1 at 20.
And yeah, 8nm was always the rumour for t239. What’s making that rumor borderline ridiculous is the Nvidia leak confirming 12sm. Seems way to big and power hungry for an 8nm handheld.
It’s actually wrong calling it a leak, it was straight up theft from nvidias server. So the veracity is indisputable.If that’s true it could point to a stationary switch supplemental system, or a larger hybrid switch with bigger battery
important to note that the names are marketing now. and because of such, 20nm/16nm/12nm are all very similar. also note that these names mean different things depending on the fabricator. but you are right that smaller is generally better. 8nm refers to samsung's 8nm, which is just an enhanced 10nm. samsung has a 5nm, but it's different than tsmc's 5nm. so it's why we list the fab alongside the node when not talking about a product in particularI think it may have been explained at some point at the old place (hell I very well might have asked and just forgotten), but what kind of differences/gains can be expected from the different sizes of 20nm/16nm/12nm/8nm/5nm?
I'm assuming something along the lines of smaller = better/more efficient, but for what purpose flies over my head, and what it means if it's smaller that something else can be fit in its place
12nm is 16nm, with minor improvements.Wasn’t 8nm always the rumor though?
I remember everyone thought the current switch would be 12nm for sure and it ended up at 16nm
In the Olden Days, this referred to, basically, how small your transistors were. That meaning is way fuzzier now, but the rough trend is the same - smaller process nodes means, at best, that the amount of electricity needed goes down, while the number of chips you can make out of the same wafer of silicon goes up, which makes the final product cheaper.I think it may have been explained at some point at the old place (hell I very well might have asked and just forgotten), but what kind of differences/gains can be expected from the different sizes of 20nm/16nm/12nm/8nm/5nm?
I could have sworn it was earlier but from what I’m digging it seems like people speculated that it would be some type of hybrid based on patents and the eurogamer report was the first actual piece of what the NX. So yeah it’s possible that a similar scenario can happen.Pretty sure we heard absolutely nothing about the Switch until July 2016.
People consider them announcing project NX at a conference in 2014 as them officially announcing the switch, others consider the October thing or January thing (whenever it was) as the official announcement.I could have sworn it was earlier but from what I’m digging it seems like people speculated that it would be some type of hybrid based on patents and the eurogamer report was the first actual piece of what the NX. So yeah it’s possible that a similar scenario can happen.
That being said I also recall that the next systems were usually mentioned far in advanced either saying “the next console is in development” or something of the similar but never in a glorified manner. As we knew it was coming in 2017.
The US chipmaker Qualcomm wants to buy a stake in Arm alongside its rivals and create a consortium that would maintain the UK chip designer's neutrality in the highly competitive semiconductor market.
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"We're an interested party in investing," Cristiano Amon, Qualcomm's chief executive, told the Financial Times. "It's a very important asset and it's an asset which is going to be essential to the development of our industry."
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He added that Qualcomm, one of Arm's biggest customers, could join forces with other chipmakers to buy Arm outright if the consortium making the purchase was "big enough". Such a move could settle concerns over the corporate control of Arm after the upcoming IPO.
"You'd need to have many companies participating so they have a net effect that Arm is independent," he said.
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Amon's intervention will give renewed momentum to the idea of a syndicate of chipmakers becoming cornerstone investors in Arm. Intel chief executive Pat Gelsinger suggested that the US chipmaker could support such a move earlier this year.
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"Arm has won everywhere because of the collective investment of the entire ecosystem, from companies like Apple and Qualcomm and many others, and that's because it was an independent, open architecture that everybody could invest in," said Amon, referring to the period before SoftBank purchased the company.
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Here's the archive to the Financial Times article if anyone wants to read it.Amon said Qualcomm had not spoken to SoftBank about a potential investment in Arm. He added that the Japanese group had been prioritising resolving an impasse at Arm's renegade China unit.
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Investing in Arm alongside rivals would "support a successful IPO and valuation" and ensure that the company continued "striving and investing", said Amon.
When there were rumors about the tablet and detachable controllers form factor for NX, that was a pretty big deal. But it's kind of impossible to have an equivalently notable story this time when it would probably be "Breaking: Next Switch form factor still the same!" We never heard anything about the Switch name until Nintendo told us.9 months in advance I'm looking for something a little stronger than an easily fakeable factory leak from some sketchy forum in China. We had so many leaks coming out at this point before the switch released. Same with the PS5 and Xbox. You cant hide something like a new console launch. We should be hearing about games coming to it, hearing about part orders, hearing rumors about the name and so many other things. But we're hearing nothing. We're getting far fewer leaks for this than for the switch pro which didn't even happen.
You forgot Ray Tracing too. Nintendo would never use that!People downplaying the DLSS leak as if it was a “given“.
No one knows that for sure and a lot people were screaming “Nintendo only use wither technology, they would never do something like that. They would never do 4k blah blah blah”.
I don't know if it's because of Nvidia. If anyone could figure out mobile RT that keeps within the limits of the power envelope it's probably going to be them.I don't think a lot of people were expecting RT in a switch 2 tbqh, including me. It takes up a lot of GPU performance and made DLSS a necessity since it cut performance by half. So at the time, something we guessed in ~2 TFLOP console a year or so ago, it didn't seem feasible to use it on such a relatively low power console when we have 6tflop turing RTX 2060 struggle with it.
And then I believe it was Nate who heard from someone that RT may be coming but they had to reduce the count of RT cores because it affected the power draw or something.
And then we hear about mobile tech using RT vis tech demos and actually see it being used in some capacity in action on Steam Deck, and all of a sudden it does seem doable..
I don't think a lot of people were expecting RT in a switch 2 tbqh, including me. It takes up a lot of GPU performance and made DLSS a necessity since it cut performance by half. So at the time, something we guessed in ~2 TFLOP console a year or so ago, it didn't seem feasible to use it on such a relatively low power console when we have 6tflop turing RTX 2060 struggle with it.
And then I believe it was Nate who heard from someone that RT may be coming but they had to reduce the count of RT cores because it affected the power draw or something.
And then we hear about mobile tech using RT vis tech demos and actually see it being used in some capacity in action on Steam Deck, and all of a sudden it does seem doable..
This didn’t actually happen.And then I believe it was Nate who heard from someone that RT may be coming but they had to reduce the count of RT cores because it affected the power draw or something
Where did you get 130 from?To be Frank, Drake should have a vastly superior Ray Tracing performance over Steam Deck thanks to its uArch.
RDNA2 Ray tracing performance suffers more than Nvidia Ray tracing with lower bandwidth.
Drake if it has 102GB/s bandwidth should be theoretically closer to 130GB/s thanks to it’s memory compression and more.
personally, I don't like taking theoreticals into contention too muchTo be Frank, Drake should have a vastly superior Ray Tracing performance over Steam Deck thanks to its uArch.
RDNA2 Ray tracing performance suffers more than Nvidia Ray tracing with lower bandwidth.
Drake if it has 102GB/s bandwidth should be theoretically closer to 130GB/s thanks to it’s memory compression and more.
When you're in the middle of the rumor phase, it never feels anything is enough or all the pieces make sennse
A lot of the Switch rumors only became credible after the reveal then we went back and retroactively said this one was true and look we knew about this detail X months before release!
In reality if you asked someone following the NX leaks in June 2016 how they felt about no NX news at E3 and likelihood of an early 2017 release, you may have gotten a much more conservative answer. Granted with the NX, we knew Wii U needed to be replaced and the NX codename itself was announced by Iwata a year prior, so there was perhaps a stronger sense 'this thing is coming'
Scott the Woz does a good breakdown of the major leaks and fake rumors leading up to the NX reveal. I leave it up to you guys to decide if we're in a similar situation or not.
i agree, and Nintendo at the time was pretty open there was a next console coming , but I think their motivation then was to reassure people they aren't going away. With a successfull product, their motivation now is more about maximizing sales and managing transition so people don't hold off purchases too early.The major difference between then and now, is these are much more uncertain times.
Back when Switch launch there wasn’t a chip shortage, Covid lockdowns in china and war in Europe.
Even if a rumor is 100% legit at the time, it might not turn out for reasons beyond anyones control.
This didn’t actually happen.
What happened was that there were battery concerns, but there wasn’t anything on RT cores being removed.
Nor is that easy.
And there isn’t any mobile hardware with RT hardware, if desktop hardware fit into a form that is small enough for laptops at best, a small NUC at worst.
ARM Mali GPUs use software ray tracing
Which is horrendously low in terms of performance.
Where did you get 130 from?
personally, I don't like taking theoreticals into contention too much
When you're in the middle of the rumor phase, it never feels anything is enough or all the pieces make sennse
A lot of the Switch rumors only became credible after the reveal then we went back and retroactively said this one was true and look we knew about this detail X months before release!
In reality if you asked someone following the NX leaks in June 2016 how they felt about no NX news at E3 and likelihood of an early 2017 release, you may have gotten a much more conservative answer. Granted with the NX, we knew Wii U needed to be replaced and the NX codename itself was announced by Iwata a year prior, so there was perhaps a stronger sense 'this thing is coming'
Scott the Woz does a good breakdown of the major leaks and fake rumors leading up to the NX reveal. I leave it up to you guys to decide if we're in a similar situation or not.
oh yeah a battery issue. Could have sworn the rumor said something about less cores or disabling them.This didn’t actually happen.
What happened was that there were battery concerns, but there wasn’t anything on RT cores being removed.
Nor is that easy.
And there isn’t any mobile hardware with RT hardware, if desktop hardware fit into a form that is small enough for laptops at best, a small NUC at worst.
ARM Mali GPUs use software ray tracing
Which is horrendously low in terms of performance.
Where did you get 130 from?
Besides Nvidia compression that has helped tx1 somewhat (and maybe rasterization or tile based rendering or w/e), the increased cache from Orion (more than standard ampere) should help tremendously as well. It's going to be really interesting seeing switch 2 games going head to head with PS4.I was thinking of this Nvidia memory compression which should be updated/enhanced to get out more effective memory bandwidth compared to what Tegra X1 can
Besides Nvidia compression that has helped tx1 somewhat (and maybe rasterization or tile based rendering or w/e), the increased cache from Orion (more than standard ampere) should help tremendously as well. It's going to be really interesting seeing switch 2 games going head to head with PS4.
Weren't 50 GB/s GPU Turing cards already not breaking a sweat vs xbone games with similar GPU performance? I don't think we'll have to worry reaching ps4 parity and somehow getting bottle necked by bandwidth.
Sure, RAM is an important topic. Nintendo did have a problem with RAM latency with the N64’s Rambus DRAM (RDRAM).Can we talk about RAM latency for a second? I feel like that’s an important discussion to have.
For the record, GDDR has worse latency than DDR but it has higher memory bandwidth.
Granted, with the switch they’ll use LPDDR so it isn’t like GDDR with respect to latency, but I wonder if there’s a way they can reduce the latency as much as possible without being too complex.
I believe it was z0mbie who made that comparison on the older site. To be fair the 50 GB/s was the VRAM on the turing video cards that were around 1 TFLOP, and it doesn't account for separate RAM on a PC.Seeing how ”outdated“ the version is on tx1, latest version should be much more effective/efficient together with the other compressions introduced in the later uArchs. If Drake indeed has more cache it should theoretically stand toe to toe with PS4 GDDR5 bandwidth
I haven’t heard about 50 GB/s Turing not breaking a sweat but it should be true since it’s such a long gap generation wise from GCN to Turing (and all the advances made)
Devkits leaked October 2015 and the system released in 2017? That about lines up with this system dev kits leaking in 2020 and the system coming in 22 or 23I need a bit of time to process information and how it is being compared, see I was not there during the entire Nintendo switch pre-launch speculation. I was pretty much a very casual gamer that didn’t really pay much attention to online stuff at the time, online stuff like this that is. I was basically pretty much a Normie. All my gaming news came from my friends at the time.
However this is wild, Mochizuki reported apparently that there were Nintendo switch development kits that went out, yet a year to a year and a half later is when they were actual specs leaked of this device which ended up being the tegra X1 specs that were leaked.
Devkits October 2015, but spec leaks December 2016
Seems like the GPU would have 1024*1024*4 bytes of L2 cache and they can access the CPU L3 cache before going to the system RAM. But this last part is inherent to Tegra SOCs.Edit: and maybe a way to reduce latency is increasing CPU/GPU cache size to avoid going to RAM as much as possible, but that increases costs too.
Would that count as a leak really? Wouldn’t it be simply reporting from a financial news company?Devkits leaked October 2015 and the system released in 2017? That about lines up with this system dev kits leaking in 2020 and the system coming in 22 or 23
1024 * 1024 * 1, more likely.Seems like the GPU would have 1024*1024*4 bytes of L2 cache and they can access the CPU L3 cache before going to the system RAM. But this last part is inherent to Tegra SOCs.
May I ask what the CPU clocks were when you had the GPU at 1-1.3Ghz?I have a Steam Deck. The clocks vary depending on usage, but when I've been monitoring it for graphically intensive games the GPU is usually somewhere between 1.0GHz and 1.3GHz (which would be between 1Tflops and 1.3Tflops). I haven't seen it hit 1.6GHz, but I'm not using the overlay that shows clocks that often. I believe it's also possible to lock the GPU clock at 1.6GHz, but that would likely result in throttling of the CPU clocks, or reduced battery life, or both. I'm quite happy with the performance of it, so I don't really feel the need to tinker with it to squeeze out any extra performance.
Yeah if its coming spring 2023 a fall reveal is possible as to not mislead consumers going into the holiday. They will take a hit in sales for it.
I know the counter argument for a bait and Switch seems compelling but that's a one time deal, break the trust and you lose the customer forever.
Disappointing.1024 * 1024 * 1, more likely.
Thing is that Switch hardware and software are still selling great, and Q4 (Holiday season) is quarter when Nintendo usually have similar sales compared to 3 previous quarters combined, so I don't see announcement before or during Holiday season if new Switch hardware is not launching this year because it would effect on sales in their most important quarter.
Also, I dont think consumers would be mislead because we talking about more expansive hardware, even less that there would be lose of some kind of trust or loosing customers, especially now after 100m+ sold units or after things that Nintendo done in past where they really mislead consumers (saying there is no new 3DS hardware and couple weeks later they announced new 3DS hardware).
You nail the potential issue with which any company must wrestle when introducing new hardware.Thing is that Switch hardware and software are still selling great, and Q4 (Holiday season) is quarter when Nintendo usually have similar sales compared to 3 previous quarters combined, so I don't see announcement before or during Holiday season if new Switch hardware is not launching this year because it would effect on sales in their most important quarter.
Also, I dont think consumers would be mislead because we talking about more expansive hardware, even less that there would be lose of some kind of trust or loosing customers, especially now after 100m+ sold units or after things that Nintendo done in past where they really mislead consumers (saying there is no new 3DS hardware and couple weeks later they announced new 3DS hardware).
This is worth this thread, it’s 13 minutes though but it presents more on the logistics issue with a pro console from Sony or Microsoft:
I’m only going to add my few cents here, originally I remember talk about shortages being alleviated by the second half of 2022 in late 2020/early 2021.
Then in 2021 that moved to 2023 being the year the shortages resolve.
And now in 2022, it’s moved to 2024.
Despite that, other aspects of the semi shortages have the shortages ending/being gone probably by the next decade/ end of this decade.
Xbox One X outright flopped and the PS4 Pro sales were fairly weak, thats why you are not getting PRO consoles.
Couldn't Drake's manufacturing overcome some (not all) of the shortage issues because it's using a smaller tablet sized chip and could reuse components from the OLED like battery and screen?
To dismiss it, you have to believe it outright does not exist.I think a lot of the reasons to dismiss a PS5 Pro and Xbox Series XX also applies to why I've been so skeptical in a Switch Pro or Switch 4K within the next year. Digital Foundry brings up a lot of valid points here and I mean Steam Deck litterally had to delay the Steam Deck stand because they couldn't even get the parts for that.
Personally I'll be really surprised if we get a 4K Switch within the next year or so.
And crazy how devs had the OG switch devkits since 2015 and yet you didn’t get a leak until late 2016 3 months before the switch launched.Crazy how those 11 developers have had development kits since last year, some since 2020, and absolutely NOTHING has leaked regarding those games and the only solid evidence we have of a new machine is from a hack, which confirms that Nintendo and Nvidia are indeed working on a new system (no shit).
Can you do the basic effort of actually contributing to the thread instead of giving some smart Alec response? Because that’s all you’ve been doing in this thread.
Yes and no, well this new device will be much easier to manufacture than the Xbox series in the PlayStation5, but it will still be supply limited regardless if they launch it this year, next year, the year after or the year after that.
People that subscribe to the idea that a 2024 launch or 2025 launch for a chip that started in 2019/2020 because of shortages have to realize that
A) you either launch a new system during the shortages and deal with it as best as possible, B) you don’t launch anything at all.
I’m not sure of what the percent chance is of Nintendo completely canning a device like this that they have been working on since 2019/2020, but I suppose it depends on you as a person on what you believe the chances of Nintendo canning such a project that they spent perhaps $1 billion on already?
To dismiss it, you have to believe it outright does not exist.
And the steam deck only had a delay of 2 months.
Nothing except one of the devs being Zynga with their game being Star Wars Hunters.Crazy how those 11 developers have had development kits since last year, some since 2020, and absolutely NOTHING has leaked regarding those games and the only solid evidence we have of a new machine is from a hack, which confirms that Nintendo and Nvidia are indeed working on a new system (no shit).