Th3rra
Rattata
And it is future proof. I wouldn't know what Nintendo would call a Switch 3 if we're coming from a Super Nintendo Switch. Numbers, on the other hand, could go on forever.
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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)
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Ghostsonplanets
Ghost in the Sales
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All of this, with current technology and 3nm node, is impossible to be put on a handheld form factor with decent size, cooling and battery life requirements. To not say that it would be extremely expensive.ya'll talking about XB4, but here I am wondering how X will look on it. XD
I honestly wonder how xb2 would have looked if it used the scaling tech from XB3..
Can we make a bet poll? I'm gonna guess Super Nintendo Switch. That or Switch 2. But Nintendo has never numbered their systems before..
How many people really think PS5 performance is actually possible anytime soon in a handheld?
Going back to that article that was posted here a few days ago.
New PlayStation Handheld Powered by AMD Is in Early Development; 18 CUs, 1.8 GHz or Slower GPU to Maintain Compatibility With PS4/PS5 Titles
A new PlayStation handheld console is in early development, according to rumors circulating online. It should be compatible with PS4/PS5 titleswccftech.com
This rumored handheld only has half the amount of Cus as the PS5 (36), and the GPU is downclocked from 2.23 to 1.8 GHz. So realistically, we're looking at a 3.8 to 4 TFLOPs GPU at best.
The CPU would be more interesting.. They would need the same amount of cores.. But what about clock speeds? They wouldn't need to reach 3.5Ghz.
If this handheld is actually really in production, the most likely it's going to be using a newer Ryzen GPU and a newer Zen Core CPU, which will punch above it's own weight per GHz vs PS5. Supposedly Zen Core 5 has a 30% IPC efficiency (not sure if vs vs 4 or an older model).
So who knows... If Sony wanted to make a handheld, perhaps a 3.5 to 3.8 GPU TFLOPs handheld with an 8 core 2.5-3.5 Ghz CPU and 16-32GB LPDDR6 (probably not) or LPDDR5T on a 3nm node. Question is if it would be 100% handheld or would it be like the switch. And of course, power draw.
Now how does that compare to Asus Rally, legion handhelds and other high end PC handhelds?
Besides, it would be basically Sony introducing a Series S in the middle of generation, requiring developers to patch their released software for compatibility with the new device and making in development games need to be re-escoped with this device in mind. Basically a non-starter.
Gingerbread Man
Paratroopa
We had Super Stable 3D relatively recently, though.
DLSS literally stands for Deep Learning Super Sampling.
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Switch 4K won't work because than it sounds like a regular switch that can now output at 4K.
As for Super Nintendo Switch or Nintendo Super Switch, it still sounds more like a PS4 Pro level upgrade and not a PS5. I am sticking with this, but I believe Switch 2 is the best name they can do because if they wanted to do an OLED model easily - Nintendo Switch 2 OLED. or Super Nintendo Switch 2/Nintendo Super Switch 2 for a Pro level upgrade and then restart the clock with Switch 3.
A Super Nintendo Switch OLED sounds confusing. Is it a more powerful regular Switch with OLED now? Same with Switch 4K OLED or Super Switch 4K.
HankyPanky
Like Like
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there better be a Switch 2 Pro (premium model with more improvements than just the screen) before there is a Switch 3 this time around pls Nintendo.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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Because Super Resolution was around in the 90s, huh?
Super isn't some inherently outdated word, it's just a word, a word Nvidia ACTIVELY and CONTINUOUSLY uses in marketing, as does Nintendo with Super Nintendo World, Super Mario Bros., Super Smooth Moves, and so much more.
Switch 4K is kind of meaningless, especially by comparison. Making it seem like nothing but a resolution bump sounds like a marketing trainwreck waiting to happen.
And frankly, people aren't that shallow? Something used in marketing in the 90s isn't incompatible with popularity in the now... Especially when the iDevice line started back then and now still dominates three categories.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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Super sounds like a "Pro" upgrade?
Like... The Super Famicom and Super NES? Or Super Mario Bros. being an enhanced port of Mario Bros.?
Come on, people aren't that head stuck in the dirt. I agree that numbers are flexible, but given what we know, Super is a totally reasonable option.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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We already know this! Ultra.
Supra et Ultra!
(Super means above, and ultra beyond, it's a pretty clear step above super. Thanks, Starfield!)
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Okay. But we live in a world where everything's confusing, and there are upgrades. Unlike the 90's, there weren't pro versions of consoles. It was just Nintendo Entertainment System -> Super Nintendo Entertainment System and Sega Megadrive -> Sega Genesis. Things were more straightforward at that point.
As for what the other user said, numbers provide future proofing. What would the Switch 3 be called? Ultra? That doesn't fully mean it's a successor to the Super Switch.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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What? That's just not true; things were super confusing in the 90s and mid-gen upgrades were planned for every relevant console except the PS1. Sega CD32X games existed whether they should have or not.
Super has never been used for a mid-gen upgrade; the closest being New 3DS using some SNES branding, but that's a stretch.
Numbers would need marketing too, but the difference between Super and Ultra is not particularly obscure; it was literally part of the original name for the SNES' successor.
I think if it's not a number, Super is the obvious answer, super obvious, but if it's numbers... Well, just because it's "2" doesn't mean it'll be labelled "Nintendo Switch 2" and not something drier like "Nintendo Switch - Generation 2"- I can't help but think there's a risk they use that naming scheme and keep the logo the same.
Like I agree there's a chance at 2, numbers are flexible, easy, clear, but they're not PERFECT, they're a little boring, uninspiring and don't indicate much new. But I am definitely saying "Super implies mid gen upgrade" is untrue, because historically, it is.
2 perfectly indicates that its conceptually the same, but improved. Which is what we expect this to be.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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SiG
Chain Chomp
But what you expect could be wrong. (i.e. itterative, "no gimmick")
I agree but it's just not Nintendo's thing. They just don't do it. Nes -> SNES, Gameboy ->Gameboy Advance, DS -> 3DS, Wii -> Wii U.
Right. I do like Super Nintendo Switch, but I worry that that's just a nostalgia thing for me. Switch 2 can't be mistaken for something else unless Nintendo really fumbles on the messaging.
I'd love it if the language includes thing like "six times the power in the palm of your hands".
Switch 4K could also work, but I don't know if that really notes that it's a followup system.
Individualised
Bob-omb
And they'll get ever so slightly more nonsensical every time new customs data comes in, too.
"FLUX CAPACITOR HOUSING FOR TESTING THE SHAPESHIFTING CAPABILITIES OF A GAME CONSOLE"
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Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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It's a new Nintendo, so much has changed since then.
Just please, not "New Nintendo Switch".
I think the three candidates in order from most boring to least would be
Generation 2(/Gen 2), 2, and Super.
They all work in their own ways and I doubt Nintendo wants to do a "risky" name like "Nintendo Switch C" or "Nintendo Fuse", rather than tacking on a clear indicator of superiority to the existing name.
Super isn't particarily original either. And its very 90s.
If we are all collectively dead wrong about what this thing is, I fully expect the name to be related to the new hook.
A pattern is a pattern, until it isn't.
Shareholder Chad
FORMER Nintendo Shareholder
Whats the entire point of a company? To make money.
What if you reach 30% more (throwing a nice low number) customers by releasing on a platform (PC) that has an install base of 750 million globally vs. your 130ish million? I think this is a safe estimate and easily achieved.
What if that extra revenue more than offsets any opportunity cost of customers who would have bought your console if it wasnt for the fact that you released whatever games on PC? We know Nintendo fans will buy Nintendo consoles. That will never disppear. Not all games need to utilize the console gimmick either and not all games need be ported. Throwing out those 2-3 million sellers for some extra cash on PC while leaving the big fish for the console is just GOOD business. Very few buy a switch for clubhouse games or Fire emblem.
These are the questions Nintendo must answer to shareholders when and if Sony/Microsoft are successful with putting their games on other platforms.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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Nostalgia; is that really something Nintendo has historically avoided in marketing?
There are a lot of other great names. Sometimes the new names have worked better than others.
I'm not arguing what I think Nintendo would do. I'm arguing what I think they should do. Personally I think they will keep it simple with something like 2, but that's not what I'm arguing.
At one point I had thought that the Famicom V would have been a great name for the successor to the GameCube. Obviously the Wii marketing worked though.
You need to be kind of old to have Nostalgia for Super. Including myself in that.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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WHAaaat?
Fire Emblem fans are something else!
I can't see Nintendo giving an inch as regards PC (or other console) releases; their argument is straightforward, not every game needs to sell consoles, but every console sells games. A Nintendo Switch user is more likely to consume MANY Nintendo games than a PlayStation user with Nintendo games available on it. And they can always point to what it did to Sega...
I think you're right on them wanting to you know, make money, but I don't think their strategy will change unless they are completely certain it would definitely bring in far more revenue than their current strategy of building walled gardens around people. Maybe a Wii U style failure or two.
OctoSplattack
Chain Chomp
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The 18-35 demographic is not nostalgic for Super. They are nostalgic for cubes. Advance ones even. That are duct-taped together.
Also, why is everyone calling Xbox the "new 3DO"? What did I miss?
Spyder
Shriekbat
Don't forget Microsoft's investment into AI. Nintendo is the only one who would never touch AI generated code and art but if they go under expect a whole slew of AI generated games on Gamepass.
It's already happened with High on Life.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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Excuse me?
The 18-35 demographic includes, well, 35 year olds, who would have been young children for the SNES' prime, so, not sure how that tracks.
For everyone else, myself included, Nintendo and Nvidia have been using Super in marketing and product names for decades, SNES or no SNES.
Super Mario!
RTX Super!
Super Nintendo re-releases (which a LOT of that demographic would have been exposed to on GBA).
Super is both clear AND nostalgic, and not just for one demographic, they literally used SNES marketing cues in New 3DS, a family discontinued all of three years ago
I could see a future where the next few Switch consoles are Super, Ultra, Cubed, Revolution and Café, if Nintendo is brave!
Like I'm not arguing 2 can't happen, I'm saying it's absolutely a possibility that Super can happen.
HotelSyrup
Piranha Plant
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I want them to move on from the Switch name. Not feeling Switch 2 or Super Nintendo Switch.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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Gah! Please, anything but that! I'd take Switch U over that! Spare us Nintendo, use Switch like a good corporate entity! I am scared of change!
Shareholder Chad
FORMER Nintendo Shareholder
It won't take Wii-u type failures. It will only take looking at how much Sony and Microsoft are making off of the deal. FOMO will kick in for Nintendo's business heads and shareholders. This is EXACTLY why Nintendo went to mobile. All you gotta do switch out Microsoft/Sony for Tencent, Zynga, Niantic, Cygames, etc.
I will agree there is a major line in the sand for putting games on Playstation or Xbox. That wont happen. PC is easy and safe. Id bet serious cash it happens in the next 7 to 10 years.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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I think it's short sighted to think of those markets as at all comparable, and the mobile market was and continues to be far, far larger and more significant than console gaming, financially at least.
And again that fails to account for the value of their walled garden approach- something that's kind of difficult to quantify.
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You could disagree with me all you want. I'm just telling you my opinion.
OctoSplattack
Chain Chomp
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I have no strong feelings one way or the other, I just wanted to jump in with a terrible joke and ended up getting my math wrong. Have mercy. <_<
ExoticSpice
Shriekbat
If Nintendo goes PC as well, I would think they would first put older games first and 2-3 years later port the current gen games. But Nintendo is not focusing on that rather their focus is movies, theme parks and merch/muesums. Thats their expansion, the mario movie and Nintendo IP is a huge money maker and thus their efforts are better focused on the movie industry.
We'll see but for Switch 2, I don't think games will be on PC due to the success of Switch.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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Super sorry.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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Super slim, even.
Shareholder Chad
FORMER Nintendo Shareholder
Pure control always is but it doesn't beat the howling made by shareholders and business types.
Again though, IF Microsoft/Sony make a load of money. It doesn't matter if it doesnt match up to the massive scale of mobile as long as its a significant amount in its own right. I think the question that needs to also be asked is, How much more millions of copies does Nintendo sell of Fire Emblem Three houses if it releases on steam, Windows store, and Epic games store?
What do you all think? Me personally, 3 extra million. It sold 4Million on Switch. Even 50% more sales makes this all easily worth it. (Edit: I'd say 2 million but Im adding a bit due to the buzz of being one of the first Nintendo PC games)
For the switch 2 generation, I agree. This is more of a next next gen kind of thing. I also believe they will test with older games but not with their big selling properties like Mario and Zelda. Fire emblem and Pikmin are literally the perfect series and its not close.
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HankyPanky
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if Nintendo was to fully leverage the Nvidia partnership they could be making all types of hardware & develop their own ecosystem akin to Apple. but they'll need to think bigger than currently ie producing one new generation every 7-8 years like console makers traditionally have. the others have already moved past this with regular iterations and PC is well PC.
NintenDuvo
Bob-omb
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Nintendo Switch 2 just makes the most sense, while it is boring and safe it is the right move to do especially for a follow up to a very successful device. They could even go to the Apple route and call it Nintendo Switch Second Generation Model.
Wii lasted 11.
Threeman
Cappy
Nintendo Shareholders are mostly japanese, japanese doesn't play PC - as of now (even though it's a growing market, it's still very niche) - while they do play a shitload of mobile games.
Shareholder Chad
FORMER Nintendo Shareholder
Shit. Your right. I totally didn't know that. I completely reverse my entire opinion. Silly me.
ziggyrivers
thunder
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Not everything has to be an ecosystem. And if it were, the ecosystem doesn't have to be started from the get go. Rather, release a model, then wait to years to release the cheaper, and wait another two years for the more premium version. This worked with the Switch, so it could work with the Switch 2. Or it could not.
Other than that, there's the reality of mobile tech not advancing at a fast pace. And even if they were to advance, what would not advance as fast is the lower costs.
You're comparing an ecosystem of convenience, smartphones, with a dedicated device to play video games: the Nintendo Switch.
Plus you're comparing an ecosystem with an entry cost of $799 (formerly waaay less), to a handheld device that's almost half of that.
OP
OP
I wasn't trying to say that the GPU's the only factor to why I don't think PlayStation 5 performance is happening on a handheld without major compromises.
The reason why I mentioned the GPU is that RDNA 3 isn't well known for being a power efficient GPU architecture. The AMD Ryzen Z1 Extreme (RDNA 3) is generally less performant than Van Gogh (RDNA 2) and AMD Ryzen 6800U (RDNA 2) at ≤10 W, and the AMD Ryzen 6800U at ≤15 W. And the AMD Ryzen Z1 Extreme only starts to outperform Van Gogh at ≥15 W, and the AMD Ryzen 6800U at ≥20 W. Considering that the AMD Ryzen Z1 Extreme was fabricated using TSMC's 4 nm* process node whereas Van Gogh and the AMD Ryzen 6800U were fabricated using TSMC's 7 nm* process node and TSMC's 6 nm* process node respectively, that shows how not power efficient RDNA 3 is as a GPU architecture, and simply using a more advanced process node won't automatically provide major power efficiency improvements.
But yes, I agree that the CPU and the RAM are much bigger bottlenecks than the GPU. But I don't think the GPU can be completely discounted, especially when the GPU architecture's concerned.
* → a marketing nomenclature used by all foundry companies
CAMM2/LPCAMM2.
But I don't think LPCAMM2's viable for space constrained electronics (e.g. handhelds, etc.), because although LPCAMM2's indeed much smaller than SODIMM, LPCAMM still take up more space vs soldering LPDDR modules next to the SoC, especially if die shrunk LPDDR modules were used.
snorkellingfish
Cappy
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I agree with this. While I'd expect 4K to be a part of the marketing, I don't expect it to be the primary point.
After all, if you tell people that they should upgrade to play 4K, then you imply the converse: that you don't need to upgrade if you're not worried about 4K.
That's not only relevant to those of us who don't have 4K TVs yet. It's also relevant to handheld play on a (rumoured) 1080p screen. And switching between modes, and having a great experience on either, is a pretty central part of Switch marketing.
(I'm fine with either Switch 2 or Super Switch, but I recognise that I'm a 90s kid who does have some nostalgia for the super name.)
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Well, we know a good 13.56 million of them are pretty reliable. The other 100+ million, less so.
Marketing, no, but identity of your primary product for the next decade is going to be a bit more considered. Every time there's been new system name discourse over the years someone suggests something based around Nintendo Entertainment System for the same reason and that's never happened either.
Dimensio
Tektite
There won't be, because there is no technology on the horizon that would allow for it to happen.
They won't not just because the switch brand is really popular, but simply because the next console is an iteration of the switch concept.
Also Switch 4K, Switch second model all sounds like pro model names even more than Super Switch.
I still don't think it will be called Switch 2 but I have to admit that I really can't think of a word they could put after Switch that clearly communicates that it's new console.
Switch Advance and Super Switch are the best I can think of.
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