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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

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Adding my few cents to the name discourse.

While both Switch 2 and Super Switch are both acceptable and would work, I feel Switch 2 works better over Super Switch. Switch 2 leaves room for zero confusion, while Super Switch might confuse a few buyers.

Not saying one is better than the other, it’s just “Switch 2” is the most direct and least confusing option. Nintendo hasn’t named something “Super” or “Advance” for over 20 years, and to be honest, I’m glad that trend is over. Standardized naming conventions (Ps1, Ps2, iPhone 7, iPhone 8, quest 2, quest 3, etc etc) just fit better in this day and age.
 
Dimensio said:
Thor is going to have an Ada Lovelace GPU as opposed to Drake's Ampere GPU, so it can't be used.
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i'll have to defer to the experts on this but there's no way it could be cross-compatible if they wanted that to happen? i know from reading here that the reason BC is harder this time is because of the shaders thing but there's still an issue with future archs?

if some of the technical folk could chime in and explain why it's not possible i'm curious as it would surely relate to future BC, something I thought they would have anticipated.
 
I've always been partial to Switch Too

A little corny but I think it suits Nintendo

Plus abbreviation would be SWO or Swoo for short heh
 
This week is going to be interesting.

Microsoft being forced to talk about the rumours earlier than expected
Nintendo Investor Meeting
Maybe Direct announcement
 
HankyPanky said:
i'll have to defer to the experts on this but there's no way it could be cross-compatible if they wanted that to happen? i know from reading here that the reason BC is harder this time is because of the shaders thing but there's still an issue with future archs?

if some of the technical folk could chime in and explain why it's not possible i'm curious as it would surely relate to future BC, something I thought they would have anticipated.
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This isn't about BC, an Ada Lovelace GPU wouldn't be able to play Switch 2 games since Drake uses an Ampere GPU and architectures are not compatible with each other.
Thor can't be used and a node shrink wouldn't bring any significant performance/battery life improvements on top of being really expensive.
Switch 2 Pro isn't happening.
 
Dimensio said:
This isn't about BC, an Ada Lovelace GPU wouldn't be able to play Switch 2 games since Drake uses an Ampere GPU and architectures are not compatible with each other.
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In this day and age this isn't shouldn't be issue. PS5 can play PS4 despite being on different generations of AMD GPUs. New iPhones can play 64bit iOS games despite new SoC's each year. If Nintendo cannot figure out cross-generational compatibility with their OS for their future consoles, I do wonder what all that R&D money is doing.
 
HankyPanky said:
that's not true as Nvidia's next mobile SOC after Orin is Thor which is due as early as next year. perfect for a mid-gen refresh if Nintendo were to have their own custom gaming version again. and with Drake's emphasis on DLSS they could have this 'Pro' revision running the same software at higher presets, along with a better screen etc. many options available if refreshing the hardware more often became a thing, which i think it absolutely should after the success of the Switch.
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Assuming Drake's fabricated using TSMC's 4N process node, Thor's probably going to use the same process node Drake's using, since automotive SoCs have to be taped out and sampled in advance, considering obtaining ISO 26262 verification and validation is a time consuming process. (In fact, before Nvidia canned Atlan, Nvidia mentioned back during GTC 2021 that Atlan's planned to be sampled in 2023 and be used in automotive vehicles starting in 2025.) So there's probably no process node advantage with using Thor.

And going by the picture Nvidia provided of Thor, and going by Orin's estimated die size (~455 mm²), and assuming all of the hardware components on Thor that Nintendo considers unnecessary are removed, the SoC's probably still too big for Nintendo to use.

Outside of the Opacity Micromap Engine and the Displaced Micro-Mesh Engine present on Ada Lovelace's RT cores and not on Ampere's RT cores, Shader Execution Reordering (SER) present on Ada Lovelace's CUDA cores and not on Ampere's CUDA cores, a faster Optical Flow Accelerator (OFA) on Ada Lovelace GPUs compared to the one on consumer Ampere GPUs, and Ada Lovelace's L2 cache being larger compared to Ampere's L2 cache, Ada Lovelace is not that different from Ampere architecturally.

Alex Battaglia from Digital Foundry mentioned that DLSS 3 only starts to become beneficial when the game runs at ~80 fps (presumably ~40 fps before taking into account DLSS 3). So I don't think there's much benefit for DLSS 3 on a hybrid console.

And there's probably very miniscule cost savings migrating from TSMC's 4N process node to Nvidia's flavour of TSMC's N3E process node since the SRAM area on TSMC's N3E process node is the same as the SRAM area on TSMC's N5 process node family. TSMC's numbers are for a chip designed with 50% logic, 30% SRAM, and 20% analog, although SoCs are designed with 70% SRAM and 30% logic.
 
Dimensio said:
This isn't about BC, an Ada Lovelace GPU wouldn't be able to play Switch 2 games since Drake uses an Ampere GPU and architectures are not compatible with each other.
Thor can't be used and a node shrink wouldn't bring any significant performance/battery life improvements on top of being really expensive.
Switch 2 Pro isn't happening.
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eventually it will be about BC, you would think after whatever they've had to do to get Switch 1 titles working on Switch 2 (lets presume it's fully BC) things would be set up to guarantee titles work on future systems or hardware revisions. doesn't seem a problem cross-generation or with the Pro revisions on other recent systems either.
 
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John Omaha said:
lol. People will just get used to playing them on those other platforms. Moreover, I doubt MS will want to risk losing all those new customers for a chance to force them to buy their console.
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That’s a fair point.

Microsoft has historically never been good at 4D chess lol


I wonder then if the incentive becomes “selling” games on other platforms but for gamepass you still need an Xbox or PC

“Hey look you can buy Ori 3 on the switch 2, or Starfield on the PS5 Pro, OR you can just get an Xbox with the subscription and get ALL these games!”

Perhaps?
 
Dakhil said:
Assuming Drake's fabricated using TSMC's 4N process node, Thor's probably going to use the same process node Drake's using, since automotive SoCs have to be taped out and sampled in advance, considering obtaining ISO 26262 verification and validation is a time consuming process. (In fact, before Nvidia canned Atlan, Nvidia mentioned back during GTC 2021 that Atlan's planned to be sampled in 2023 and be used in automotive vehicles starting in 2025.) So there's probably no process node advantage with using Thor.

And going by the picture Nvidia provided of Thor, and going by Orin's estimated die size (~455 mm²), and assuming all of the hardware components on Thor that Nintendo considers unnecessary are removed, the SoC's probably still too big for Nintendo to use.

Outside of the Opacity Micromap Engine and the Displaced Micro-Mesh Engine present on Ada Lovelace's RT cores and not on Ampere's RT cores, Shader Execution Reordering (SER) present on Ada Lovelace's CUDA cores and not on Ampere's CUDA cores, a faster Optical Flow Accelerator (OFA) on Ada Lovelace GPUs compared to the one on consumer Ampere GPUs, and Ada Lovelace's L2 cache being larger compared to Ampere's L2 cache, Ada Lovelace is not that different from Ampere architecturally.

Alex Battaglia from Digital Foundry mentioned that DLSS 3 only starts to become beneficial when the game runs at ~80 fps (presumably ~40 fps before taking into account DLSS 3). So I don't think there's much benefit for DLSS 3 on a hybrid console.

And there's probably very miniscule cost savings migrating from TSMC's 4N process node to Nvidia's flavour of TSMC's N3E process node since the SRAM area on TSMC's N3E process node is the same as the SRAM area on TSMC's N5 process node family. TSMC's numbers are for a chip designed with 50% logic, 30% SRAM, and 20% analog, although SoCs are designed with 70% SRAM and 30% logic.
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thanks for the explanation. so we are looking quite a ways off before there's anything new Nintendo could use for a more advanced handheld?

and i know this idea is scoffed at regularly but it would be nice to have some alternatives on the hardware front like a home only version, then you could easily have a beefed up GPU with higher quality settings. i guess what i'm pointing at is Nintendo could be leveraging the Nvidia angle to provide more hardware options than they did this generation with the v2 variants all being locked to the same baseline.

there were comments about Nintendo bringing their games to PC but surely it's preferable to have a Nintendo box before they go down that route. especially as they have the perfect partner to branch out with hardware.
 
ExoticSpice said:
PS5 can play PS4 despite being on different generations of AMD GPUs.
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AMD mentions that RDNA is backwards compatible with GCN. And the GPU on the PlayStation 5's APU used RDNA as the foundation, with hardware features from RDNA 2 being added (e.g. ray tracing, etc.).

I don't believe Nvidia makes any mention of newer GPUs being backwards compatible with older GPUs on a hardware level. But saying that, I don't see why Nintendo and Nvidia can figure out GPU backwards compatibility from a software level, especially with the rumour that Nintendo's new hardware could have a backwards compatibility translation layer/workaround to achieve backwards compatibility.
 
ExoticSpice said:
PS5 can play PS4 despite being on different generations of AMD GPUs.
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Because AMD keeps compatibility between generations, Nvidia doesn't.
ExoticSpice said:
If Nintendo cannot figure out cross-generational compatibility with their OS for their future consoles, I do wonder what all that R&D money is doing.
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Developing an emulation layer is not easy, it's a hard and complex task that takes a lot of time, resources and money.
They are doing it right now to get Switch 1 games running on the Switch 2 and (we hope) they will do that for Switch 3 or whatever, but they would absolutely not do that just for a pro model.
 
Pokemaniac said:
The shader code that Switch games submit to the GPU is going to be architecture-specific regardless of the API in use. The BC system will need to account for this.
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So more or less like the switch emulators out there. Probably can be done ahead of time and downloaded with the game.
 
Im going to be honest even if we do get a general direct this week, i am going to be completely bummed if Nintendo still refuses to acknowledge the Switch having a successor at the investors meeting
 
Slam Tilt said:
But why? It's like saying "Donald Trump is a tax fraud", everyone knows it's a true statement even if they refuse to acknowledge it.
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Even with your example I gotta say it gets really frustrating the longer they refuse to acknowledge it, even though we do already know it. 😅
 
Slam Tilt said:
But why? It's like saying "Donald Trump is a tax fraud", everyone knows it's a true statement even if they refuse to acknowledge it.
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Because it seems like we been hearing about a new more powerful Switch since like 2020 and im just ready for it to finally be a reality and put us out of our misery
 
bmfrosty said:
So more or less like the switch emulators out there. Probably can be done ahead of time and downloaded with the game.
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It's an easier task than what Switch emulators have to do, since (a) there's only one target GPU you need to worry about, (b) that GPU is also in a SoC with similar architecture instead of being in some Windows desktop PC, (c) Nvidia are the ones who made both the original and new GPU, and (d) there should be some headroom for translation since you're running less demanding last-generation games on strictly upgraded hardware. However, it can't be done ahead of time, because shaders can be created on the fly and sent to the GPU from anywhere, anytime. Even for the majority of shaders, which are precompiled rather than created on the fly, there's no consistent place in the game ROM image to find them.

This and the API issue are solvable problems. And they've surely already been solved.
 
I wonder if the recent rumblings will have any effect on that xbox handheld which was supposedly planned.

If xbox titles ended up on the switch successor it would basically fulfill that role already!

Unless the xbox handheld ends up being a cheaper tablet made specifically for streaming gamepass games
 
Jahranimo said:
Just enjoy the ride and play those games you haven't finished yet. This is nowhere near misery, again that was Wii U in 2016 lol.
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I'm playing Mario + Rabbids: Sparks of Hope and even loading in and out of the menus takes 3 seconds lol. Gets the next gen pining going for me alright :LOL:
 
Saturnman789 said:
I wonder if the recent rumblings will have any effect on that xbox handheld which was supposedly planned.

If xbox titles ended up on the switch successor it would basically fulfill that role already!

Unless the xbox handheld ends up being a cheaper tablet made specifically for streaming gamepass games
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I truly believe that if that third-party Xbox-branded consoles happen, that's what was approved. Not MS making a handheld.
 
Meelow said:
I truly believe that if that third-party Xbox-branded consoles happen, that's what was approved. Not MS making a handheld.
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If they allow third parties to manufacture Xbox, they definitely have to take advice from EA, they‘ve experience with the 3DO./s
 
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Meelow said:
I truly believe that if that third-party Xbox-branded consoles happen, that's what was approved. Not MS making a handheld.
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Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if we ended up getting what is essentially an xbox branded "steam deck" sorta device. Would play games from both xbox and potentially PC, with its own custom OS made specifically for comfortable use in handheld (probably built from Windows 12).

Either someone like Philips or Dell I could see being the main producers of it. Mainly Dell because alienware already fits in with the xbox branding thematically, and they showcased a gaming handheld back in 2020 but it has gone nowhere. Shows that they at least are or were interested in the "portable pc" market.
 
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Dimensio said:
They won't not just because the switch brand is really popular, but simply because the next console is an iteration of the switch concept.
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It's hard to imagine Nintendo ever releasing hardware that's not a console/handheld hybrid again. Not unless the next system is a flop or mobile gaming becomes unpopular in the future.
 
HotelDrink said:
It's hard to imagine Nintendo ever releasing hardware that's not a console/handheld hybrid again. Not unless the next system is a flop or mobile gaming becomes unpopular in the future.
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I can very easily see them go to a non hybrid after their next console (Switch 2)

they love changing things up and if there is an idea they feel can only be executed with a home console they will go for that
 
HotelDrink said:
It's hard to imagine Nintendo ever releasing hardware that's not a console/handheld hybrid again. Not unless the next system is a flop or mobile gaming becomes unpopular in the future.
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Interesting, what do you think would happen if the latter came true?
 
I wonder if Nintendo would benefit from trying to pull the ReDraketed announcement earlier due to XBOX basically imploding to third party?

Anyway, lot's of pages since friday, anything interesting that i missed? (Outside of the XBOX drama!)
 
N 2 Deep said:
I can very easily see them go to a non hybrid after their next console (Switch 2)

they love changing things up and if there is an idea they feel can only be executed with a home console they will go for that
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They would have to separate their teams for 2 consoles again.

I'd call that pulling a WiiU.
 
I‘d be surprised but I could imagine that we hear nothing about Switch 2 or anything next hardware tomorrow. With the Museum and Themepark they will have enough to talk about anyway (from their perspective). What do you think?
 
Darknut85 said:
We still have hundreds of investors meeting that century, so no reason to worry.
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I don‘t worry, I just think it feels like the wrong approach to be so secretive about it if they really plan it to release this year. But guess will see.
 
Nintendo could keep being silent or just do a fairly lowkey "plans regarding next gen hardware is progressing smoothly" without going into specific details if any questions arise, would obviously raise some attention but it's also fairly likely as production of the next gen hardware is underway we'll hear more and more reputable sources talking about it and maybe leaked marketing details which then will closely be followed by an official reveal.

We're already hearing dealings regarding the LCD screens so it'll only get worse when the full product is made by the millions.
 
chocolate_supra said:
Even with your example I gotta say it gets really frustrating the longer they refuse to acknowledge it, even though we do already know it. 😅
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At some point, it stops being "just sound business strategy, never play your cards too soon" and feels more like they're treating people like fools. Everyone knows a successor is coming!

And on that topic I'd like to think the era of gimmick names is behind us now. Switch 2 is just a massively clearer and better name than Switch Pro, Switch Advance or Super Switch.
 
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