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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

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Thraktor said:
The Nintendo They.
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OMG
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yusufied said:
-Nintendo launches a new system
-New system name only has one character differentiating it from the previous system
-At a glance the system does not look too different from the previous system
-Lackluster launch lineup
-Nintendo has to address poor sales momentum with in the first 12 months
-System is the Nintendo 3DS
-Sold 75 million hardware units
-pic unrelated
800px-Wii_U_Console_and_Gamepad.png
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Bringing this back to dispel the hardware name concerns. It's all about delivering quality content. As long as people see a game they want to play they'll figure out what they need to buy.
 
redmutineer75 said:
Well, the Sega Saturn didn't have the advantage of being a portable device that's likely $100 cheaper than the competition, and as decades of Nintendo strategy have proven, outdated technology certainly isn't a dealbreaker so long as the games are there. In regards to cloud, I think Google Stadia proved pretty definitively that game streaming isn't going to be viable for another generation or two.
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Yeah I'm not afraid for Nintendo.
If AI really is the next big thing, the shift won't happened as fast as 2D/3D and Nintendo will always have their own niche regardless.
 
syrozz said:
Yeah I'm not afraid for Nintendo.
If AI really is the next big thing, the shift won't happened as fast as 2D/3D and Nintendo will always have their own niche regardless.
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But T239 has AI hardware... It would be the first AI accelerated console of its type...
 
Wii U wasn't a great name from the start but it could have worked. It was compounded by other issues with the marketing and presentation like not making the new part of the name, the 'U', visually prominent enough. It's smaller than the original Wii branding, and just kind of floating on the top right. I'm not surprised this came across as a tablet accessory to the uninformed person.

51iSxlUEOML._AC_UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg


Compare with the extremely prominent "Advance", "Super", "3", and "New". I shrunk the images but you could still see them at a distance. They inherited the name of their predecessors, even keeping the visual branding, but the new element is made as clear and distinct as possible along with striking images of the new device.

s-l1600.jpg
311376713_SuperNES-MarioSet.jpg.273b09261de4dcb8a040e5604804a379.jpg
71MQMKEmivL.jpg


They even did it right with the Super Game Boy 2, lol
s-l500.jpg
 
Ghostsonplanets said:
IMO a clear and defined Switch 2 is a much better naming strategy and less confusing for consumers than Switch Super or Switch Advance or Switch XL, whatever. Specially because names like Super, Ultra, XR, XL, etc are vastly used by smartphone manufacturers to denote increased specs models within the same generation. While numbers are used to denote a new generation family.

I know some Nintendo fans don't like a simple number because it's Sony way of naming their consoles. But, really, who cares.

Anyway, Nintendo will name it the way they want. Let's just hope it's not another We You or 3D DS/ 2D DS or New Nintendo.
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this just reminded me of the way reggie (terribly) explained the reason for the name "wii u" and it sent shivers down my spine...
 
rêverie said:
this just reminded me of the way reggie (terribly) explained the reason for the name "wii u" and it sent shivers down my spine...
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I've watched WiiU retrospective videos with that clip a number of times and I still can't figure out what the hell he was going on about.

"We thought about we...
And how that also means I...
But it's important to think they...
Which defines sie...
But really means minnasan...
And that's why we decided to name it kimi...
But also vous...
And so we present today...
But also you present today...
The Wii bokutachi...
Or something."
 
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Concernt said:
But T239 has AI hardware... It would be the first AI accelerated console of its type...
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I was thinking more along the lines of dedicated GPUs. That could be a thing pretty soon.
And again, I'm not afraid for Nintendo, I was just trying to stay remotely on topic lol.
 
Thraktor said:
The funny thing is that Microsoft's confusing console naming goes back to not wanting to use lower numbers than Sony (hence the 3 in Xbox 360, which was competing with PS3), but they could get away with just using the same numbering as Sony from next gen. They released two consoles this gen, so they could argue that the Series S and X were the fourth and fifth Xboxes, and call the next one Xbox 6.

But they won't, they'll call it something silly like Xbox Zero.
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It's also weird that both the number 4 and color black are considered unlucky in Japan because they are to close to symbolism of death and yet neither of those things effected the PS4 at all... lol
 
Dakhil said:
I don't really see the point of announcing specs 3 years ago, considering the specs were, for the most part, probably not finalised until 1H 2022 (here and here). (I say for the most part, because I imagine the CPU, GPU, and RAM frequencies, and the amount of RAM and internal storage, can be continuously adjusted until the last possible moment.)
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I worded that poorly. I meant specs being announced like now. (Not 3 years ago).

Ghostsonplanets said:
The industry used to be like this. Then they realized that announcing things years in advance was doing them no good and actually creating greater pressure and lack of room for adjustment of plans. Behind the scenes, a lot of games are in development then cancelled, lot of technologies changes happen, lots of pitches that may or not bear fruit, etc. Nintendo itself has an egregious example with Metroid Prime 4, which was announced early on Switch lifecycle, then changed development studios and was rebooted, prompting Nintendo to issue an clarification about the game development status, and still hasn't been released. Had Nintendo not announced anything back in 2017, they would have room to cancel the game, change target platforms, reboot the title silently, etc without the public knowing and having an outcry about it.

The game industry isn't like movie industry and shouldn't adopt their processes.

Indeed. Game consoles development are a very hard task where changes can be done at eleventh hour. PS4 itself doubled the RAM amount last hour, 3DS GPU choice was changed less than 2 years before launch, etc. There's a lot of back and forth and adjustments to a console specs until closer to launch.
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Fair criticism but I’m ok with how Metroid prime 4 has been handled. Not only that, but I’d imagine Nintendo is not holding back any decision based on the fact they announced it early. They let us know when development was reset. All I want is a target year and if they delay it past that then that’s ok.

I also understand most people aren’t patient nor understanding making this a difficult thing.
 
syrozz said:
I was thinking more of dedicated GPUs. That could be a thing.
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Why would a console need a "dedicated GPU", one of the benefits of a console is the ability to have a purpose built SOC? T239 is an SOC design, but its not like its GPU isn't independent, even if it isn't physically seperate.
 
yusufied said:
-Nintendo launches a new system
-New system name only has one character differentiating it from the previous system
-At a glance the system does not look too different from the previous system
-Lackluster launch lineup
-Nintendo has to address poor sales momentum with in the first 12 months
-System is the Nintendo 3DS
-Sold 75 million hardware units
-pic unrelated
800px-Wii_U_Console_and_Gamepad.png
Click to expand...
Fun fact the Xbox one failed to outsell the 3ds and at the rate things are going the series x won’t either
 
Shareholder Chad said:
I worded that poorly. I meant specs being announced like now. (Not 3 years ago).



Fair criticism but I’m ok with how Metroid prime 4 has been handled. Not only that, but I’d imagine Nintendo is not holding back any decision based on the fact they announced it early. They let us know when development was reset. All I want is a target year and if they delay it past that then that’s ok.

I also understand most people aren’t patient nor understanding making this a difficult thing.
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Honestly, I agree with you. Beyond the financial aspect, I mean you can argue about the impact of shareholders on the economy, but generally happy shareholders happy Nintendo, but as a customer I want to know my device is going to be supported for years to come. They make these small, imprecise statements like, "until at least March 2025", while with Microsoft I know that eventually, I'll probably get to play Fable and Elder Scrolls 6. It may be a little risky, but it builds trust and confidence in a brand.

As for specs, I don't think 3 years is absurd; a company SHOULD know its TARGET performance years before release, especially since Nintendo's technology is so deeply intertwined with Nvidia and will be using a chip in 2024 they were developing for far longer than 3 years ago. Internally, they SHOULD know the broad strokes of target performance before they start work on the chip, so knowing it good enough to tell investors a few months out from chip production seems totally feasible. It also settles the market and prevents the at times toxic and unhelpful whirlwind of rumours Switch 2 currently faces. Target specs told to investors isn't going to Osborne Effect their current device, everybody who cares to check financial reports is well aware Nintendo's working on new hardware all the time.
 
This is so broken.

Nintendo Switch AI, but for the logo put "AI" in a heart shape.

ai is a japanese word for love.

Much broken.

It's the type of word play thing that led to Wii U. Someone in Japan would think they're so clever with the naming.
 
SiG said:
Ah, so they're copying THE BATMAN

Kind of like how Palystation 3 copied SpiderMan, font and all.

I don't know what superhero the Switch successor should base it's logo on.
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Guardians of the Galaxy, announced alongside a sequel to the Eidos GOTG game
 
syrozz said:
Yeah, they have already 'lost' this generation. They could want to be proactive a shorten this cycle.
And based on the leak, they want to heavily focus on AI (and cloud?) with dedicated hardware and an ARM based cpu.

It's a huge gamble but it makes sense.

(warning: wild speculation ahead lol) With Microsoft cloud and research in AI, they are in a position of taking that kind of bet and Sony would have a hard time catching up. And AI really has the potential to be the next big shift, especially in videogame ('sentient' NPC, interactive world that evolve alongside the player, etc). If it pan out, it could be a 2D to 3D type of leap forward.

Bethesda and Blizzard are empty shells now, so I'm just very skeptical on their ability to produce software to support this new paradigm. Especially as early as 2026 but thing are moving exponentially fast in that field so who knows.

If it somehow works out, it could be bad for Nintendo tho. The next switch could be in a weird 'Sega Saturn' positioning and could age fast.
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I think with the case of Microsoft, it’s admitting that they can’t hold off the last two years in a 7-8 year console cycle and have to go for a 6 year console cycle this time because otherwise it’s detrimental since they have no gain and only loss in that absent last two years with no new major event. That they don’t have to keep into the PlayStation cycle to compete, that being in an off year cadence is as competitive if they can deliver whatever it is to support their platforms in the long term
and that 7 year cycle being the norm isn’t guaranteed, yet again
.



The Series is in a sense the Wii U of Microsoft, and the XB1 is the Wii, where the console came a bit too late, could have been a better success had it come a bit earlier. As in, it could have had a higher potential ceiling by taking advantage of the momentum it had.


If this pans out, it’s another console not doing a 7-8 year cycle though.

GCN->Wii 2001 to 2006, 5 years.
OG XB~> 360 would be ~4 years
Wii~>Wii U is about 6 years
DS to 3DS was about 6 ish years?
PS2>PS3 about 6.5 years I think
WiiU->NSW is about 4.5 years.
Or conversely, 3DS to NSW was about 6 years.
Series ~> XBOX NEXT(???) 6 years?


GBA I’m not gonna count, or the PS1. I feel like that’s cheating a bit, but they were around 6 or less :p

Cool to notice lol
 
Concernt said:
Honestly, I agree with you. Beyond the financial aspect, I mean you can argue about the impact of shareholders on the economy, but generally happy shareholders happy Nintendo, but as a customer I want to know my device is going to be supported for years to come. They make these small, imprecise statements like, "until at least March 2025", while with Microsoft I know that eventually, I'll probably get to play Fable and Elder Scrolls 6. It may be a little risky, but it builds trust and confidence in a brand.

As for specs, I don't think 3 years is absurd; a company SHOULD know its TARGET performance years before release, especially since Nintendo's technology is so deeply intertwined with Nvidia and will be using a chip in 2024 they were developing for far longer than 3 years ago. Internally, they SHOULD know the broad strokes of target performance before they start work on the chip, so knowing it good enough to tell investors a few months out from chip production seems totally feasible. It also settles the market and prevents the at times toxic and unhelpful whirlwind of rumours Switch 2 currently faces. Target specs told to investors isn't going to Osborne Effect their current device, everybody who cares to check financial reports is well aware Nintendo's working on new hardware all the time.
Click to expand...

Agreed with both of you. I like knowing stuff years in advance.
 
Serif said:
Wii U wasn't a great name from the start but it could have worked. It was compounded by other issues with the marketing and presentation like not making the new part of the name, the 'U', visually prominent enough. It's smaller than the original Wii branding, and just kind of floating on the top right. I'm not surprised this came across as a tablet accessory to the uninformed person.

51iSxlUEOML._AC_UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg


Compare with the extremely prominent "Advance", "Super", "3", and "New". I shrunk the images but you could still see them at a distance. They inherited the name of their predecessors, even keeping the visual branding, but the new element is made as clear and distinct as possible along with striking images of the new device.

s-l1600.jpg
311376713_SuperNES-MarioSet.jpg.273b09261de4dcb8a040e5604804a379.jpg
71MQMKEmivL.jpg


They even did it right with the Super Game Boy 2, lol
s-l500.jpg
Click to expand...

To make the Wii U, Nintendo took the previous console, and made a...rounder, and bigger...Wii. :unsure: Slapped some new internals, throw in the Gamepad, and it's no wonder consumers felt it was just a Wii accessory. It was doomed from the start, but most of us were too naïve to realize it.
 
Makes me wonder if Frame Generation could allow for external GPUs without the need of Thunderbolt.

Most eGPUs require high speeds due to communicating directly with the CPU. Which is why thunderbolt is basically a necessity.

However, some aspects of eGPUs are limiting because communication needs to be as instantaneous as possible with a CPU, and aspects such as cord length can actually affect the communication times. Thus limiting the amount of performance you can possibly get.

With frame generation, once/if its quirks get ironed out, I wonder if it could add to an image with lesser amounts of data? It'd obviously need things like motion vectors and such. But that might take less bandwidth than say, direct communication with the CPU. Which maybe means external hardware wouldn't need the speeds required by thunderbolt?
 
epicmartin7 said:
Makes me wonder if Frame Generation could allow for external GPUs without the need of Thunderbolt.

Most eGPUs require high speeds due to communicating directly with the CPU. Which is why thunderbolt is basically a necessity.

However, some aspects of eGPUs are limiting because communication needs to be as instantaneous as possible with a CPU, and aspects such as cord length can actually affect the communication times. Thus limiting the amount of performance you can possibly get.

With frame generation, once/if its quirks get ironed out, I wonder if it could add to an image with lesser amounts of data? It'd obviously need things like motion vectors and such. But that might take less bandwidth than say, direct communication with the CPU. Which maybe means external hardware wouldn't need the speeds required by thunderbolt?
Click to expand...
i think why having the dlss/framegen occur outside the tablet wouldnt work, is that dlss/framegen are not done at the end of frame. they work in the middle of frame creation and there is post processing stuff that needs to be done before the frame is sent out. thats how things like ui, motion blur are done so they dont mess with the end result.
 
7hatDeadCat said:
i think why having the dlss/framegen occur outside the tablet wouldnt work, is that dlss/framegen are not done at the end of frame. they work in the middle of frame creation and there is post processing stuff that needs to be done before the frame is sent out. thats how things like ui, motion blur are done so they dont mess with the end result.
Click to expand...
Good point. Frame Gen does interpolate. Although intel seems to be experimenting with extrapolation techniques. Which could be pretty interesting.
 
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epicmartin7 said:
Makes me wonder if Frame Generation could allow for external GPUs without the need of Thunderbolt.

Most eGPUs require high speeds due to communicating directly with the CPU. Which is why thunderbolt is basically a necessity.

However, some aspects of eGPUs are limiting because communication needs to be as instantaneous as possible with a CPU, and aspects such as cord length can actually affect the communication times. Thus limiting the amount of performance you can possibly get.

With frame generation, once/if its quirks get ironed out, I wonder if it could add to an image with lesser amounts of data? It'd obviously need things like motion vectors and such. But that might take less bandwidth than say, direct communication with the CPU. Which maybe means external hardware wouldn't need the speeds required by thunderbolt?
Click to expand...
My only hang up here would be latency. It's already pretty noticeable as is, even with Nvidia Reflex/AMD Anti-Lag or whatever it's called. Having to do a trip to and from the eGPU every frame would probably take frame gen from "Playable but kinda sluggish" to "This shit is unplayable."
 
ReddDreadtheLead said:
I think with the case of Microsoft, it’s admitting that they can’t hold off the last two years in a 7-8 year console cycle and have to go for a 6 year console cycle this time because otherwise it’s detrimental since they have no gain and only loss in that absent last two years with no new major event. That they don’t have to keep into the PlayStation cycle to compete, that being in an off year cadence is as competitive if they can deliver whatever it is to support their platforms in the long term
and that 7 year cycle being the norm isn’t guaranteed, yet again
.



The Series is in a sense the Wii U of Microsoft, and the XB1 is the Wii, where the console came a bit too late, could have been a better success had it come a bit earlier. As in, it could have had a higher potential ceiling by taking advantage of the momentum it had.


If this pans out, it’s another console not doing a 7-8 year cycle though.

GCN->Wii 2001 to 2006, 5 years.
OG XB~> 360 would be ~4 years
Wii~>Wii U is about 6 years
DS to 3DS was about 6 ish years?
PS2>PS3 about 6.5 years I think
WiiU->NSW is about 4.5 years.
Or conversely, 3DS to NSW was about 6 years.
Series ~> XBOX NEXT(???) 6 years?


GBA I’m not gonna count, or the PS1. I feel like that’s cheating a bit, but they were around 6 or less :p

Cool to notice lol
Click to expand...
Switch to switch 2 would be 7 years which is nintendos longest for a console I think
 
lemonfresh said:
Switch to switch 2 would be 7 years which is nintendos longest for a console I think
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Longest since the Famicom to Super Famicom (which was also 7 years, 1983 to 1990). Overall, the Game Boy still holds that title with the 12 years between it and the GBA (or 9 years if you count the GBC).
 
Oh I have a good name for the next Xbox. The Xbox Series Zzzzzzzz.

Because it’ll put you to sleep since by the time you get a chance to play it in your adult life, it’ll be too late in the evening due to your other adulting tasks of your career, spouse, kids, chores, bills, loans/mortgage, etc. And by that point, it’ll be time for bed, ready for the cycle to repeat itself the next day. Forever.

The Xbox Series Zzzzzz: A helpful reminder you’re not a child anymore. “Let’s make this quick because we know it’ll not last long.”

😭
 
I know most people won't like hearing this, but if Microsoft and Sony haven't publicly announce specs 3 years in advance thus far, then Nintendo most certainly won't publicly announce specs 3 years in advance.
 
Dakhil said:
I know, but there are at least some people here who want Nintendo to publicly announce specs far in advance, which is different from publicly announcing specs after launch.
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oh yeah I'm agreeing with you saying that it's very very unlikely for them to ever do it, just throwing an additional reason in there is all 😅
 
It’s crazy how there’s been 100k posts here and we still know virtually nothing. Nintendos internal secrecy is so impressive. Even more so with all of the recent leaks. It really makes me wonder how they’re so good at containing things. I’m sure their terrifying legal department plays a role in that 😂
 
gnetc said:
It’s crazy how there’s been 100k posts here and we still know virtually nothing. Nintendos internal secrecy is so impressive. Even more so with all of the recent leaks. It really makes me wonder how they’re so good at containing things. I’m sure their terrifying legal department plays a role in that 😂
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Well, there was perhaps the greatest leak in console manufacturing history that happened, but that was on Nvidia's end, not Nintendo's.
 
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gnetc said:
While I agree there is a ton of info that has been dug up by some amazing people none of that is concrete. The stuff leaking from Microsoft and Insomniac is completely true info that can’t be refuted.
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I'd say the Nvidia leak that this thread's work is significantly based on is pretty concrete since Nvidia themselves admitted it was legit, and it contained (as far as I know) far more detailed info about the Switch 2 than is typically leaked ahead of any Nintendo launch.

Stuff about launch timing, tapeout, button colors (I still believe) and things like that, yeah I agree is not concrete even where compelling evidence has been found, but I think part of the issue of feeling like there's an info drought lately is because that first initial confirmed leak was so huge and so early that by now we're just kinda waiting around for a few missing pieces (just RAM and clock speeds, right?) because the leak contained almost everything else.

plank said:
Nintendo could make it so that the system would run on only one of the 8 cpu core for all we know.
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Okay I'll admit I'm not knowledgeable in the field but if they were only gonna use one of the 8 cores then why would the chip have 8 cores? 😅 I feel like that can be pretty confidently ruled out, can't it? That sorta seems to be out there with the "Switch 2 won't do raytracing even though it has dedicated RT cores" arguments from a while ago. If this chip was customized by Nvidia to suit Nintendo's needs then I'd expect things that are on the chip would be in use.

But if I have this wrong then I'm genuinely interested in hearing the reasons why.
 
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