Amiibo will never have a good middle ground, either people complain they dont do enough, or they do too mucbSony is bad, but NIntendo isnt that great I mean didnt they paywall upgrades for multiple games behind amiibo. Yeah not so hot
Amiibo will never have a good middle ground, either people complain they dont do enough, or they do too mucbSony is bad, but NIntendo isnt that great I mean didnt they paywall upgrades for multiple games behind amiibo. Yeah not so hot
What leak?The “new” leak sounds fake/ Smart guess at best, being superficial enough that anything wrong about it can be claimed as “they just changed it after”
Keep the current skyrim for $60, add a 4k/60 patch. Probably less workWhy patch Skyrim on Switch when Skyrim 4K can be sold for $60
Yeah what leak?What leak?
Late this year, early next yearGiven the timeline in the latest Nate the Hate about software for Switch 4K being done for a late 2022 and potentially out in 2023 release, when is a realistic timeframe for Dane to be taped out? Is hearing anything before 2022 realistic at all?
What's interesting on those, is that they may need more porting work. I believe they're compiled as 32 bit, and they may need a thin shim in order to make them work on future Switch systems.People don't have to prove consistency for their feelings to be validated
Nintendo has invested a ton into porting their Wii U catalogue to the Switch, as well as previously released games. Moreso than with SNES, N64, and GC. No BC would also probably mean a reboot of NSO legacy content. All this makes being upset about no BC pretty justifiable.
I think what NateDrake is trying to say is that how Nintendo positions the DLSS model* to third party developers isn't necessarily indicative of how Nintendo would market the DLSS model* to the general consumers, which is a matter of marketing semantics for Nintendo.He's heard from developer sources that it's being positioned as a revision, but says later he doesn't know if it's being positioned as a revision or a successor...? I'm confused by that part.
If it's a revision, it will have BC. If it's a successor, it should still absolutely have BC. Honestly the notion of this device not being backwards compatible with the Switch library is patently ridiculous. Which means it's exactly the kind of thing Nintendo would unfortunately do.
Isn't the Switch like the Xbox and PC? Meaning there's a thin software layer that interacts with the hardware, and the developers code on top of that software layer? Thereby ensuring compatibility regardless of subtle changes in the underlying hardware?
My guess is around April 2022 at the absolute latest if Nintendo's targeting around an October 2022 release for the DLSS model*.Given the timeline in the latest Nate the Hate about software for Switch 4K being done for a late 2022 and potentially out in 2023 release, when is a realistic timeframe for Dane to be taped out? Is hearing anything before 2022 realistic at all?
Would you be upset if it were released before you were ready to upgrade?I really love my OLED model. As a handheld gamer I’m really enjoying it. For me I hope the switch 4K is released Q1 of 23. I will be ready to upgrade.
They will absolutely re-release their games with improvements and extra content like they did with the Wii U library. But they don't need to drop BC to do that, we have many examples of it since they started having BC on the GBC until the last years of WiiU/3DS.Don't worry guys NIntendo will just resell you your old switch games repackaged for full price claiming the 4k upgrade will be worth the money. Please be Excited!
I always thought your English was implausibly good. You were able to carry on a conversation with SG1 despite observing them for maybe 5 minutes from outside the cell.I think BC is almost a given since the new model should in theory expand the current Switch family. Am I wrong or did Nintendo talk about a "stretched generation" compared to the past?
p.s. Hi everyone I'm new
p.p.s. sorry for the bad English
It is weird that Orin X was claimed to be 7nm when we knew Orin was being made on 8nm, whether this has any implication on Dane or not remains to be seen. If it somehow jumped to 7nm in the last year without anyone knowing then it'd be quite the development. As for BC, I am sure Nintendo and Nvidia figured something out ages ago.I find it weird to see that many Nvidia customers mentioning 7 nm when talking about the Orin family of chip. Moreover, I believe it is the first time we have seen a Nvidia package made in Korea instead of Taiwan (Ampere chipsets while being made by Samsung have all been packaged in Taiwan). I would have really liked to see this as related to the use of a more exclusive process that would require the packaging to be made in Korea. That said, having to use one of Samsung's 3D packaging with the ram chip on top of the SoC in a sort of a more advanced PoP package could also require the 8 nm chip to be made in Korea. (Again, we shouldn't close the door on Orin X/S being made on something different than 8 nm. Something happened in early 2020 that resulted in Orin (OG/X?) being upgraded to 21BTr instead of 17BTr and Orin S being delayed until further notice).
As for all this BC talk... It would be quiet funny to see Lovelace or Ampere not being able to emulate the Maxwell ISA when unoptimized and less powerful Snapdragon SoCs are able to run switch games.
(I won't apologize for my bad English because I'm speaking the language of the prophet Thugtas)
I find it weird to see that many Nvidia customers mentioning 7 nm when talking about the Orin family of chip.
My guess is that IM Motors is speculating that Nvidia's using Samsung's 7LPP process node to fabricate Orin X, but Nvidia could in actuality be using Samsung's 8N process node to fabricate Orin X, similar to how Gainware speculated that consumer Ampere GPUs were fabricated using a 7 nm** process node, but in actuality, Nvidia's using Samsung's 8N process node to fabricate consumer Ampere GPUs.It is weird that Orin X was claimed to be 7nm when we knew Orin was being made on 8nm, whether this has any implication on Dane or not remains to be seen.
I guess we will have to wait for a bit for further clarification, but not too long as at least Orin X should have already a prototype made, right?My guess is that IM Motors is speculating that Nvidia's using Samsung's 7LPP process node to fabricate Orin X, but Nvidia could in actuality be using Samsung's 8N process node to fabricate Orin X, similar to how Gainware speculated that consumer Ampere GPUs were fabricated using a 7 nm** process node, but in actuality, Nvidia's using Samsung's 8N process node to fabricate consumer Ampere GPUs.
** a marketing nomenclature for all foundry companies
How well do Snapdragons emulate Switch? People are freaking out about this but I pretty much immediately just assumed Nintendo would simply use emulation on the GPU side and it'd be fine.I find it weird to see that many Nvidia customers mentioning 7 nm when talking about the Orin family of chip. Moreover, I believe it is the first time we have seen a Nvidia package made in Korea instead of Taiwan (Ampere chipsets while being made by Samsung have all been packaged in Taiwan). I would have really liked to see this as related to the use of a more exclusive process that would require the packaging to be made in Korea. That said, having to use one of Samsung's 3D packaging with the ram chip on top of the SoC in a sort of a more advanced PoP package could also require the packaging of a 8 nm chip to be made in Korea. (Again, we shouldn't close the door on Orin X/S being made on something different than 8 nm. Something happened in early 2020 that resulted in Orin (OG/X?) being upgraded to 21BTr instead of 17BTr and Orin S being delayed until further notice).
As for all this BC talk... It would be quiet funny to see Lovelace or Ampere not being able to emulate the Maxwell ISA when unoptimized and less powerful Snapdragon SoCs are able to run switch games.
(I won't apologize for my bad English because I'm speaking the language of the prophet Thugtas)
Ehh, seems a bit odd though considering they legit were given the prototype board to show it seems.My guess is that IM Motors is speculating that Nvidia's using Samsung's 7LPP process node to fabricate Orin X, but Nvidia could in actuality be using Samsung's 8N process node to fabricate Orin X, similar to how Gainware speculated that consumer Ampere GPUs were fabricated using a 7 nm** process node, but in actuality, Nvidia's using Samsung's 8N process node to fabricate consumer Ampere GPUs.
** a marketing nomenclature for all foundry companies
It runs on the 10 nm Snapdragon 845 with the Vulkan API (?) (with lower fps than more up to date Qualcomm SoCs) but it is obviously impossible for Nvidia to make a compatibility layer for a GPU and an API they made themselves for Nintendo.How well do Snapdragons emulate Switch? People are freaking out about this but I pretty much immediately just assumed Nintendo would simply use emulation on the GPU side and it'd be fine.
Lol. Yeah, it's weird to me that people are freaking out about this, it seems like something Nvidia and NERD could figure out just fine.It runs on the 10 nm Snapdragon 845 with the Vulkan API (?) (with lower fps than more up to date Qualcomm SoCs) but it is obviously impossible for Nvidia to make a compatibility layer for a GPU and an API they made themselves for Nintendo.
Already have, I'm sure.Lol. Yeah, it's weird to me that people are freaking out about this, it seems like something Nvidia and NERD could figure out just fine.
I would imagine. It's not like this is something that would have caught Nintendo and Nvidia off guard, they've probably planned for this since the Tegra X1 was chosen for the Switch.Already have, I'm sure.
you say this ironically but knowing nintendo.....No BC means they can fill their lineup with Switch ports and also drip feed NES/SNES games again. Very smart move.
Not really. I have the finances to buy it whenever it’s released. I wouldn’t buy it just because it’s more powerful though. If major third party content isn’t supported that it wouldn’t matter to me.Would you be upset if it were released before you were ready to upgrade?
Mario Kart 8 Deluxe: 4K Editionyou say this ironically but knowing nintendo.....
You're confusing a rumor/leak with informed speculation that didn't even come from Nate. It came from MVG who is a Switch developer and knows exactly what he is talking about. And neither of them claimed there wouldn't be BC, in fact they both said they fully expect it.Yeah just read TL;DR on Nates "Leak", ofc early Dev Kits wont have BC as thats something they work on later in production and ramp up nearing the product release. I say there is 99.5% chance Switch "2" will have BC also think they will play it to their advantage probably many games are still in development for Switch aiming for late 2022/2023 date as I could see them doing Smart Delivey route Xbox doing, also when was last time Nintendo didnt have BC that had same disc/cartridge format?
However im going play devil advocate here I dont really trust Nate with these big leaks like Gamepass for Switch and Switch "Pro" now "2". I honstley would wait for a more reptuable source such as Jason Schreier or VGC/Eurogamer that can collaborate this than random non webcam podcaster/spawncast guest on leaks at this scale.
Nate isn't saying that. He believes that Nintendo and Nvidia will 100% solve the issue, just that he isn't technically inclined to understand the situation well.Please keep information on track. This spread of “no BC” from Nate is annoying
The notion that Nate is spreading "no BC" is wrong.Please keep information on track. This spread of “no BC” from Nate is annoying
I think that's what Dark Cloud is saying.The notion that Nate is spreading "no BC" is wrong.
That’s what I’m saying. I’m seeing “Nate said no BC” in too many places and he never said that.Nate isn't saying that. He believes that Nintendo and Nvidia will 100% solve the issue, just that he isn't technically inclined to understand the situation well.
Nate isn't saying that. He believes that Nintendo and Nvidia will 100% solve the issue, just that he isn't technically inclined to understand the situation well.
I think that was the point. The spread is annoying because it's misinformation.The notion that Nate is spreading "no BC" is wrong.
Hi, Teal'c! I'll just have you know your English is fine.I think BC is almost a given since the new model should in theory expand the current Switch family. Am I wrong or did Nintendo talk about a "stretched generation" compared to the past?
p.s. Hi everyone I'm new
p.p.s. sorry for the bad English
Thanks for this explanation. Bear with me being technically illiterate. Would adding the compatibility for Maxwell increase the cost and efficiency of producing Dane SoCs? The assumption is it’ll be pretty “off-the-shelf”, right? Also, in the scenario you outlined, would Maxwell games be able to take any advantage of better hardware or would it be more like reproducing the same performance and resolution as the originals? I think the dream was that OG Switch games would be BC with better hardware with the opportunity to run better out of the gate. But I guess those would all need to be patched to run natively on Dane?Adding Maxwell compatibility could possibly be achieved by modifying the fp32 blocks in the SM to add full Maxwell compatibility.
This sort of solution would only need to be applied to 4SM, for the 256 Maxwell shaders. Thing about Ampere is that it has more fp32 shaders than it can use at one time, this is why Turing is so much faster per flop, because theoretical flops are rarely achieved in Ampere, where as Turing has half the fp32 shaders per SM.
Given this type of solution, even 6SM with 256 shaders locked away under Maxwell compatibility (which we don't know if they would be unable to be used). would result in 1.5TFLOPs with efficiency closer to Turing, perhaps even better per flop performance. Now this would be a slight downgrade to having all the shaders be Ampere, but it could be a solution to Backwards compatibility.
If this is an 8SM part, you wouldn't be able to run the GPU at 1.5GHz normally without a very high power envelope, this would be 3TFLOPs btw, but with this solution where 4SM only have half the shaders available, it would be 2.3TFLOPs Ampere, now you could likely run at 1.5GHz, because 256 of the 1024 shaders would never have a load, and would give you similar performance to 3TFLOPs, because Ampere would be closer to theoretically hitting its flop capabilities, with 25% of them unavailable.
Another solution would be just to add an emulation layer to the shader cores, this is basically hardware emulation, compatibility given Nvidia's architecture compatibility, is likely to be very high, but emulation is rarely perfect, and there could be games that have graphical errors or don't run without a patch.
I just wanted to give some ideas, you don't need to shove a whole Maxwell GPU in Dane to get backwards compatibility, this is not the 90s, these are programmable shaders that can manage a lot more than old fixed function hardware, and the key here is Nvidia knows their architectures and what would be required to make a seemless solution for it.
It frustrates him too, because he is saying the opposite. I'm just making sure that the thread understands that this problem is blown up into something it isn't. I wish MVG had mentioned virtual solutions like we saw with the PS3 or Xbox, with Nvidia behind this problem and solution, it should be fully solved without the need to literally put TX1 on the motherboard.That’s what I’m saying. I’m seeing “Nate said no BC” in too many places and he never said that.
If they added Maxwell shaders or Maxwell compatible shaders to the SM like I mention? Any increase in clock would allow that clock to increase performance just like an overclocked Switch. To achieve docked performance, it would only need to run at 768MHz, but this is not a limitation of Dane, and could add a higher clock and manage to max out dynamic resolution games as well as locked max frame rates as well. Dane is a custom SoC, though it might end up being used outside of Nintendo's hardware, it is being designed for Nintendo first.Thanks for this explanation. Bear with me being technically illiterate. Would adding the compatibility for Maxwell increase the cost and efficiency of producing Dane SoCs? The assumption is it’ll be pretty “off-the-shelf”, right? Also, in the scenario you outlined, would Maxwell games be able to take any advantage of better hardware or would it be more like reproducing the same performance and resolution as the originals? I think the dream was that OG Switch games would be BC with better hardware with the opportunity to run better out of the gate. But I guess those would all need to be patched to run natively on Dane?
The emulation layer is the futur proof solution. Especially at the release of the Switch 3 that will face the same problem having to emulate the Switch and Switch 2 GPU hardware.Another solution would be just to add an emulation layer to the shader cores, this is basically hardware emulation, compatibility given Nvidia's architecture compatibility, is likely to be very high, but emulation is rarely perfect, and there could be games that have graphical errors or don't run without a patch.
Switch 2 just needs to not put the driver in the game and precompile shaders, but yes it could end up being the case where 256 Maxwell shaders need to be present in a Switch 3 as well with this solution, though at 3nm, this is likely not really much of a problem.The emulation layer is the futur proof solution. Especially at the release of the Switch 3 that will face the same problem having to emulate the Switch and Switch 2 GPU hardware.
I believed that this press release from Zhiji/IM Motors is sanctioned by Nvidia.Ehh, seems a bit odd though considering they legit were given the prototype board to show it seems.
Hard to mess up the NM Process when you are allegedly reading press material from NVIDIA themselves on a board they gave you to show.
Especially with how secretive NVIDIA has been about Orin, this Prototype being legit the first real Orin board physically shown to my knowledge.
Having precompiled shaders may be necessary in order to maximize the performance of the small TX1 GPU. That said, I have seen several YouTube videos showing the emulation of switch games running on snapdragon phones and it seems that games that suffer the most from running via emulation are heavily optimized games such as BOTW as opposed to 3rd party multiplatform games that tend to suffer less from running in an emulated environment. If true, that would mean that Nintendo will only have to recompile a few selected games less closer to the metal for the Switch 2 hardware.Switch 2 just needs to not put the driver in the game and precompile shaders, but yes it could end up being the case where 256 Maxwell shaders need to be present in a Switch 3 as well with this solution, though at 3nm, this is likely not really much of a problem.
This. Orin X may actually be the 7 nm version of the original 8 nm Orin chip that had been taped out in march 2020.I believed that this press release from Zhiji/IM Motors is sanctioned by Nvidia.
It seems that Zhiji/IM did Nvidia a solid. Note that the auto company is co-owned by Alibaba, who is a partner of Nvidia. So the 7nm tidbit may be legit. The question is whether the whole Orin family has been moved to 7nm or only the Orin X.
- It's a press release by an auto company but it mentions no car.
- They are somehow allowed to share never-before-seen photos of Orin X, while putting their logo on top.
- It includes the exclusive info of 7nm process.
- For no reason at all, it loudly dunks on Tesla and Mobileye, Nvidia's two main rivals in autonomous driving.
But Nintendo said they had no plans for a successor reveal any time soon in their latest press releaseIf Nintendo treats this like a true successor then we will know sooner than later compared to a Switch upgrade. It’ll be revealed at least 5 months before launch.
gigglesBut Nintendo said they had no plans for a successor reveal any time soon in their latest press release