StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

[NineTailSage]

Outside of beefier hardware, what else should Nintendo add to the new Switch?

They already have gyro/IR, HD rumble, OLED screen and amiibo/NFC tech. What else can they add to be an upgrade over the current Switch?

Premium build of materials!
Many of us would gladly pay extra for a device that has a premium feel and like it's worth every penny of $400...

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

I know it won’t happen due to a multitude of reasons, but a metallic and glass body for that super premium feel couple it with Pro-cons (Pro Joy-cons) that aren’t flat but thicker on top of having other improvements.

Recently I held a Wii U GP for the first time, and if anyone has held a Wii U game pad ever in their life (I expect almost everyone here to say yes), the handle part has this round thickness to them on the back. I would like that but in joy on form. Something that can let my fingers rest on. Doesn’t help that I have larger hands.

Steam Deck also has what I have in mind, that bulbous area around the triggers and buttons that’s more comfortable to hold.

 

[Dakhil]

I personally wouldn't mind the Joy-Cons for the DLSS model* to be curved for better ergonomics.

 

[ArchedThunder]

I personally wouldn't mind the Joy-Cons for the DLSS model* to be curved for better ergonomics.

If they update them I want analogue triggers.

 

[TonyBaduy]

I'd like something that allowed them to replicate the precision of IR pointers... even if it's another sensor bar. It'd allow a ton of games to be played better.

 

[Dakhil]

I wonder if Nvidia's using Samsung's 7LPP process node that's used for the Exynos 9825 for Dane? Or if Nvidia's using Samsung's 7LPP process node that's used for the Exynos 990 for Dane? (Of course, this is assuming all of the SoC configurations in the Orin family are fabricated using Samsung's 7LPP process node, based on a claim from IM Motors that Orin X's fabricated using a 7 nm** process node (probably Samsung's since Orin X's labelling mentions 'KR').)

If the former, I think kopite7kimi would still be technically correct since Samsung's 7LPP process node that's used for the Exynos 9825 has very little differences with Samsung's 8LPP process node that's used for the Exynos 9820, outside of EUV lithography being used instead of DUV litography.

** → a marketing nomenclature for all foundry companies

 

[Hermii]

Why would they go with LPDDR4X over regular LPDDR5?

It looks like a typo.

 

[Alovon11]

IDC if they do or not but 4G/5G would be huge

If they made it unlocked/work with any carrier and charged no extra for it, then sure.

Heck, iirc Samsung includes an option to add a 5G Modem with the UFS+RAM Chip that I very much think NVIDIA will use for Dane considering the price/performance value that would bring.
https://www.xda-developers.com/samsung-lpddr5-umcp-mass-production/

And the RAM+UFS Capacities line up pretty much where we expect the Dane to be

8GB LPDDR5, 128GB to 512GB storage.

But 4G/5G would be a more out-there addition and I feel Nintendo may be more inclined to use the space savings that the uMCP would bring to either make Dane/T239 bigger, make the battery bigger, or add a more complex cooling solution.

 

[ShadowFox08]

Why would they go with LPDDR4X over regular LPDDR5?

I meant LPDDR5 for the latter, to reach 102 GB/s. Stupid typo of mine. I expect it to be lppdr5 at this point, personally. If they went with LPDDR4X for some reason though, it would be for saving money, since it's cheaper than LPDDR5, but I'm expecting 5 over 4.

 

[BlackTangMaster]

Do they really need a version optimized for Switch though?
They currently have ultra performance mode and as long as that keeps getting better with each DLSS iteration, by the time Dane Switch comes along it will probably meet the minimum requirements needed to achieve a decent image quality in both handheld and docked modes. Again we don't fully know the advantages of Lovelace over Ampere architecture, so maybe that's where it greatly excels is with Tensor and RT calculations over Ampere architecture.

Nvidia may have to make a Nintendo owned version of DLSS which could be used on different GPU manufacturer hardwares in 10-20 years. It could run slightly differently than the original version of DLSS.

Premium build of materials!
Many of us would gladly pay extra for a device that has a premium feel and like it's worth every penny of $400...

They may be offering an LCD/64GB version of Dane at $350 and an OLED/256GB version at $450-500.

I wonder if Nvidia's using Samsung's 7LPP process node that's used for the Exynos 9825 for Dane? Or if Nvidia's using Samsung's 7LPP process node that's used for the Exynos 990 for Dane? (Of course, this is assuming all of the SoC configurations in the Orin family are fabricated using Samsung's 7LPP process node, based on a claim from IM Motors that Orin X's fabricated using a 7 nm** process node (probably Samsung's since Orin X's labelling mentions 'KR').)

If the former, I think kopite7kimi would still be technically correct since Samsung's 7LPP process node that's used for the Exynos 9825 has very little differences with Samsung's 8LPP process node that's used for the Exynos 9820, outside of EUV lithography being used instead of DUV litography.

** → a marketing nomenclature for all foundry companies

The 7LPP used in 2018 for 9825 is probably not used anymore and Samsung may have made a newer version of 8N that would be better than the older 7LPP. Maybe with the use of some EUV layers as TSMC is doing with BY but I would expect Samsung to keep its EUV toolings for higher margins 5/4 nm. The chip shortages is creating a viable market for chip made on older nodes as we have seen with TU106 being manufactured despite Ampere release last year. Nvidia will probably have to use N5 for AD100/A102 and 5LPP for AD104 but I would easily see them use 8N or a newer version of this node (8N+) for GA106(/GA103?) and Dane.

I would be pleased to see the Switch 2 using a SoC like A12X/Z which would be possible with an updated version of 8N. It could even be wider thanks to the use of active cooling.

I meant LPDDR5 for the latter, to reach 102 GB/s. Stupid typo of mine. I expect it to be lppdr5 at this point, personally. If they went with LPDDR4X for some reason though, it would be for saving money, since it's cheaper than LPDDR5, but I'm expecting 5 over 4.

I suppose that using newer nodes could leads to a bigger system cache and thus diminishing the need for higher bandwidth but more expensive LPDDR5 modules. That said, 5 nm higher cost and lower capacities is probably what would force them to use LPDRR5.

 

[Intoxicate]

I know it won’t happen due to a multitude of reasons, but a metallic and glass body for that super premium feel couple it with Pro-cons (Pro Joy-cons) that aren’t flat but thicker on top of having other improvements.

Recently I held a Wii U GP for the first time, and if anyone has held a Wii U game pad ever in their life (I expect almost everyone here to say yes), the handle part has this round thickness to them on the back. I would like that but in joy on form. Something that can let my fingers rest on. Doesn’t help that I have larger hands.

Steam Deck also has what I have in mind, that bulbous area around the triggers and buttons that’s more comfortable to hold.

The OLED Model already feels a lot more premium.

The Wii U game pad felt super cheap and far too clunky. Loved the idea, but execution. That together with the cheap display and the poor battery life was just bad.

Why don’t you just add some silicon grips to the Joy con?

 

[Hyrulean]

I personally wouldn't mind the Joy-Cons for the DLSS model* to be curved for better ergonomics.

 

[ILikeFeet]

Nvidia may have to make a Nintendo owned version of DLSS which could be used on different GPU manufacturer hardwares in 10-20 years. It could run slightly differently than the original version of DLSS.

NERD already did that

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

The OLED Model already feels a lot more premium.

The Wii U game pad felt super cheap and far too clunky. Loved the idea, but execution. That together with the cheap display and the poor battery life was just bad.

Why don’t you just add some silicon grips to the Joy con?

I tried it and it isn’t as good, but would like official joycons that are thicker allowing for this gripping position to work, instead of a slab like the vita and switch. On the back a protrusion where the fingers lay is typically, except applied to the joy-con 2. It acts like a natural rest for the fingers and makes it easier to hold for longer sessions:

Steam deck also has that rest protrusion:

Fully removable controllers too

With the premium of the OLED model at least, though premium can be kicked up a notch

Aluminum plus glass let’s gooo!

 

[NineTailSage]

Nvidia may have to make a Nintendo owned version of DLSS which could be used on different GPU manufacturer hardwares in 10-20 years. It could run slightly differently than the original version of DLSS.

They may be offering an LCD/64GB version of Dane at $350 and an OLED/256GB version at $450-500.

The 7LPP used in 2018 for 9825 is probably not used anymore and Samsung may have made a newer version of 8N that would be better than the older 7LPP. Maybe with the use of some EUV layers as TSMC is doing with BY but I would expect Samsung to keep its EUV toolings for higher margins 5/4 nm. The chip shortages is creating a viable market for chip made on older nodes as we have seen with TU106 being manufactured despite Ampere release last year. Nvidia will probably have to use N5 for AD100/A102 and 5LPP for AD104 but I would easily see them use 8N or a newer version of this node (8N+) for GA106(/GA103?) and Dane.

I would be pleased to see the Switch 2 using a SoC like A12X/Z which would be possible with an updated version of 8N. It could even be wider thanks to the use of active cooling.


I suppose that using newer nodes could leads to a bigger system cache and thus diminishing the need for higher bandwidth but more expensive LPDDR5 modules. That said, 5 nm higher cost and lower capacities is probably what would force them to use LPDRR5.

I do wonder if Nvidia jumping back to TSMC for Lovelace ends up being a negotiating tactic for Orin/Dane getting a better manufacturing process from Samsung. This time last year Samsung was not only geared up for Nvidia's Ampere cards but also the new Snapdragon 888, what a difference a year makes but most of these companies have moved away from Samsung for their premier products...

Samsung: Seeking better customer structure and node process breakthroughs

TSMC, Intel and Samsung continue to compete for the leadership in more advanced technologies beyond 7nm node. Samsung has already foretold that it will mass produce for 4nm technology in 2021, with the 3nm process likely to be available in 2023. In the future, Samsung will produce its own chips...

www.digitimes.com

"Samsung depends on "low price" competition to support its position as the second biggest player in the wafer foundry sector."

"First, Samsung is bound to make all-out efforts to seize high-end business opportunities. Therefore, it is a reasonable option to contract UMC for production at 28nm node. Secondly, while two dogs are fighting for bone, a third one runs away with it. Samsung is keeping a close watch on TSMC, but Intel is emerging as a major competitor. This is not good news for Samsung. Intel is eyeing the customers of both TSMC and Samsung. For Samsung, TSMC and Intel are both rivals. With Intel entering the scene, we may see some dramatic changes in the high-end foundry market beyond 2023."

Some good quotes from the article above on where Samsung stands in the grand scheme of things and how the landscape can become even more competitive for future business once Intel's fabs get up to speed. I see Samsung being extremely aggressive to do whatever it takes in keeping foundry business going forward, it also seems like Samsung having limited amount of EUV tools in comparison to TSMC is also keeping the company from truly competing for fab business in any meaningful capacity on smaller nodes.

The OLED Model already feels a lot more premium.

The Wii U game pad felt super cheap and far too clunky. Loved the idea, but execution. That together with the cheap display and the poor battery life was just bad.

Why don’t you just add some silicon grips to the Joy con?

I've heard multiple people talk about the premium feel of the OLED and wasn't sure if anyone has confirmed the stand being metallic or not...

 

[Mr.Gamerson]

Yeah i hope Nintendo has an noticeably improved joy con setup for Switch 2 even if it means we have to buy it separately.





I really want something like this but with analog triggers and better analog placement and supports all the features of Next gen Switch. Third party joy con tend lack features of the official Nintendo licensed controllers.

 

[Dakhil]

Heck, iirc Samsung includes an option to add a 5G Modem with the UFS+RAM Chip that I very much think NVIDIA will use for Dane considering the price/performance value that would bring.
https://www.xda-developers.com/samsung-lpddr5-umcp-mass-production/

~

But 4G/5G would be a more out-there addition and I feel Nintendo may be more inclined to use the space savings that the uMCP would bring to either make Dane/T239 bigger, make the battery bigger, or add a more complex cooling solution.

Samsung's official statement made no mention of an option to add a 5G modem to the LPDDR5 uMCP. I think what XDA Developers is saying is that the amount of space saved by using the LPDDR5 uMCP can be used to add 5G antennae, etc., elsewhere, not on the LPDDR5 uMCP.

And I'm not very sure if adding a 5G modem to the LPDDR5 uMCP would be necessary for smartphones when smartphone SoCs, like the Snapdragon 888, Exynos 2100, Dimensity 1200, etc., have a 5G modem integrated into the SoC.

Speaking of integrating a 5G modem into the SoC, I imagine designing a SoC with a 5G modem integrated into the SoC, or a 4G modem integrated into the SoC, won't be inexpensive. As for adding an external 5G modem, so far, external 5G modems seem to run very hot. I'm not sure about the viability of adding an external 4G modem.

~

I don't think using a LPDDR5 uMCP is viable from a thermal standpoint for the DLSS model* since the LPDDR5 RAM and the UFS 3.1 internal storage in the LPDDR5 uMCP would need to run sustained at all times, resulting in the LPDDR5 uMCP becoming very hot.

Smartphones on the other hand are different since the LPDDR5 RAM and the UFS 3.1 internal storage in the LPDDR5 uMCP only needs to run in short bursts, which means the LPDDR5 uMCP rarely becomes hot. And that's why Samsung's currently only touting LPDDR5 uMCP for smartphones.

I do wonder if Nvidia jumping back to TSMC for Lovelace ends up being a negotiating tactic for Orin/Dane getting a better manufacturing process from Samsung. This time last year Samsung was not only geared up for Nvidia's Ampere cards but also the new Snapdragon 888, what a difference a year makes but most of these companies have moved away from Samsung for their premier products...

Probably not for Samsung's 5 nm** process nodes. I imagine Nvidia wants to prioritise Samsung's 5 nm** process nodes for higher margin products if Nvidia plans on using Samsung's 5 nm** process nodes for lower end consumer Lovelace GPUs. And some of Samsung's 5 nm** process nodes are rumoured to have yields below 50%, which seems to be vindicated by a Xiaomi executive's claim that the reason why the Snapdragon 780G is cancelled is due to lack of capacity. (And there's a rumour about how Microsoft's and AMD's Arm based SoC was supposed to be fabricated using Samsung's 5 nm** process nodes, but was switched to being fabricated using TSMC's 5 nm** process nodes due to Samsung's 5 nm** process nodes having low yields.)

I don't believe there are any products that are being fabricated using Samsung's 6LPP process node, especially when Samsung's 6LPP process node is not available to general customers.

Maybe a possibility with Samsung's 7LPP process node? Who knows?

** a marketing nomenclature for all foundry companies

 

[NineTailSage]

~

But 4G/5G would be a more out-there addition and I feel Nintendo may be more inclined to use the space savings that the uMCP would bring to either make Dane/T239 bigger, make the battery bigger, or add a more complex cooling solution.
Samsung's official statement made no mention of an option to add a 5G modem to the LPDDR5 uMCP. I think what XDA Developers is saying is that the amount of space saved by using the LPDDR5 uMCP can be used to add 5G antennae, etc., elsewhere, not on the LPDDR5 uMCP.

And I'm not very sure if adding a 5G modem to the LPDDR5 uMCP would be necessary for smartphones when smartphone SoCs, like the Snapdragon 888, Exynos 2100, Dimensity 1200, etc., have a 5G modem integrated into the SoC.

Speaking of integrating a 5G modem into the SoC, I imagine designing a SoC with a 5G modem integrated into the SoC, or a 4G modem integrated into the SoC, won't be inexpensive. As for adding an external 5G modem, so far, external 5G modems seem to run very hot. I'm not sure about the viability of adding an external 4G modem.

~

I don't think using a LPDDR5 uMCP is viable from a thermal standpoint for the DLSS model* since the LPDDR5 RAM and the UFS 3.1 internal storage in the LPDDR5 uMCP would need to run sustained at all times, resulting in the LPDDR5 uMCP becoming very hot.

Smartphones on the other hand are different since the LPDDR5 RAM and the UFS 3.1 internal storage in the LPDDR5 uMCP only needs to run in short bursts, which means the LPDDR5 uMCP rarely becomes hot. And that's why Samsung's currently only touting LPDDR5 uMCP for smartphones.


Probably not for Samsung's 5 nm** process nodes. I imagine Nvidia wants to prioritise Samsung's 5 nm** process nodes for higher margin products if Nvidia plans on using Samsung's 5 nm** process nodes for lower end consumer Lovelace GPUs. And some of Samsung's 5 nm** process nodes are rumoured to have yields below 50%, which seems to be vindicated by a Xiaomi executive's claim that the reason why the Snapdragon 780G is cancelled is due to lack of capacity. (And there's a rumour about how Microsoft's and AMD's Arm based SoC was supposed to be fabricated using Samsung's 5 nm** process nodes, but was switched to being fabricated using TSMC's 5 nm** process nodes due to Samsung's 5 nm** process nodes having low yields.)

I don't believe there are any products that are being fabricated using Samsung's 6LPP process node, especially when Samsung's 6LPP process node is not available to general customers.

Maybe a possibility with Samsung's 7LPP process node? Who knows?

** a marketing nomenclature for all foundry companies

Samsung only having approximately 20 EUV tooling machines definitely are a major limiting factor into them only slowly growing their business.
Intel getting it together can't come soon enough, this fab production being controlled by primarily one company is stifling growth of the industry.

 

[Deleted member 645]

Outside of beefier hardware, what else should Nintendo add to the new Switch?

They already have gyro/IR, HD rumble, OLED screen and amiibo/NFC tech. What else can they add to be an upgrade over the current Switch?

Industry standards across the board. Nothing lame that will alienate developers. I know the term is broad. Just looking at things like voice chap through a phone app. DON’T DO ANYTHING LIKE THAT AGAIN. They claim they have these talk with developers before every new console. They need to seriously take what developers are telling them and implement it. They are going to have to be willing to spend some money on the hardware specs and architecture. Not on any gimmicky feature. I feel like the switch OLED model with DLSS, upgraded SOC, Ram, and memory bandwidth would be damn good. Add native voice chat, larger storage cards with faster read/write and that’s all you really need.

 

[ITSMILNER]

Outside of beefier hardware, what else should Nintendo add to the new Switch?

They already have gyro/IR, HD rumble, OLED screen and amiibo/NFC tech. What else can they add to be an upgrade over the current Switch?

For me, I would love them to implement something in the dock so that you can use the Switch in a Wii U mode. Be able to connect the Switch whilst in Handheld mode to the TV in order to get a new Nintendoland.

 

[Dakhil]

Samsung only having approximately 20 EUV tooling machines definitely are a major limiting factor into them only slowly growing their business.
Intel getting it together can't come soon enough, this fab production being controlled by primarily one company is stifling growth of the industry.

TSMC pushing wafer shipments for TSMC's N3 process node to Q1 2023 due to problems with TSMC's N3 process node definitely allows Intel and Samsung to have a legitimate chance to catch up to and/or be competitive against TSMC in 2025, assuming Intel and Samsung don't screw up. And so far, Samsung's on track to be the first foundry company to use gate-all-around field-effect transistors (GAAFETs).

I've heard multiple people talk about the premium feel of the OLED and wasn't sure if anyone has confirmed the stand being metallic or not...

Jon from Spawn Wave uploaded a video on tearing down the OLED model. It seems like although the kickstand housing is made from plastic, the hinges for the kickstand are made from metal.

 

[Intoxicate]

I've heard multiple people talk about the premium feel of the OLED and wasn't sure if anyone has confirmed the stand being metallic or not...

In the Developer question and answer season Nintendo said they had to change the material since the new stand had to be slimmer but sturdier. It feels like a magnesium alloy. The backplate appears to be of the same material. I haven’t scratched or dismantled my Swoled yet, but it feels far better then the plastic back of the OG.

This could also explain why the cooling system was slimmed down, since the whole metal back can discharge heat far better then plastic.

But only impressions no proof here on my side.

Edit: SpawnWave seems to have a different conclusion for the stand

 

[BlackTangMaster]

Probably not for Samsung's 5 nm** process nodes. I imagine Nvidia wants to prioritise Samsung's 5 nm** process nodes for higher margin products if Nvidia plans on using Samsung's 5 nm** process nodes for lower end consumer Lovelace GPUs. And [BGCOLOR=rgb(231, 231, 231)]some of Samsung's 5 nm** process nodes are rumoured to have yields below 50%[/BGCOLOR], which seems to be vindicated by[BGCOLOR=rgb(231, 231, 231)] a Xiaomi executive's claim that the reason why the Snapdragon 780G is cancelled is due to lack of capacity[/BGCOLOR]. (And there's a [BGCOLOR=rgb(231, 231, 231)]rumour[/BGCOLOR] about how Microsoft's and AMD's Arm based SoC was supposed to be fabricated using Samsung's 5 nm** process nodes, but was switched to being fabricated using TSMC's 5 nm** process nodes due to Samsung's 5 nm** process nodes having low yields.)

I don't believe there are any products that are being fabricated using Samsung's 6LPP process node, especially when Samsung's 6LPP process node is not available to general customers.

Maybe a possibility with Samsung's 7LPP process node? Who knows?

** a marketing nomenclature for all foundry companies

780G may have suffered from the same lack of capacity that have leaded to Dane being postponed. Qualcomm needed there limited 5LPE capacities for the higher margins S888. Moreover, it seems that 5LPE had sufficient yields for the full 2021 Qualcomm shipment for high end chips. As for 6LPP, it will probably remain dead because 4LPE/LPP will use all the Samsung EUV toolings available for 1 or 2 years. That said, I would expect Nvidia to use a good portion of their remaining 8 nm capacity for a smaller GA103/GA106/GA107 and also for Orin/X/S once they have migrated to 5 nm for Lovelace.

 

[Simba1]

Technically Mario Kart split screen is 30FPS

Only split screen in 3 or 4 players, in any case my point stands.

 

[Hermii]

Technically Mario Kart split screen is 30FPS

In 3 or 4 players.

And technically it does actually refresh at 60. With the upper and the lower part of the screen taking turn’s updating.

 

[My Tulpa]

If Nintendo treats this like a true successor then we will know sooner than later compared to a Switch upgrade. It’ll be revealed at least 5 months before launch.

If it hits in Spring 2023 then that comment is actually totally true, lol.

Crazy to me the next gen for Nintendo is starting so soon, it feels like yesterday that the Switch was announced. Also Prime 4 was announced at the start of the generation and it will probably be released on the switch 2 now.

I’d be completely shocked if there is a “true successor” launched around the Switch’s 6 year birthday seeing as they felt the Switch was approaching its mid life cycle around the 4 year mark.

I wish people would get the concept of “true successor” out of their minds at this point. It doesn’t have much use in describing gaming hardware anymore, certainly not modern Nintendo hardware.

Whatever new model that is announced next year, it won’t be marketed as a successor, but a revision. It will be a new model that plays Switch games in a different way.

Nintendo won’t treat it like a “true successor”and gamers won’t see it a “true successor”, so it won’t be.

Like the OLED revision, it will be used to lengthen the lifecycle of the successful Switch platform, not supplant it.

If it is Switch 2, saving MK9, Mario, BOTW2, MP4 for it pretty much guarantees another major hardware success

All those games will run on the OLED Switch people buy in 2022. All those games will run on the 2017 Switch.

Super Nintendo Switch “success” will be determined by gamers who want to play those games in ways the OLED Switch can’t…not because it’s the only way to play those games.

 

[My Tulpa]

I wonder how many oled buyers will be angry if nintendo announces the switch DLSS model next year. Not everyone is in the know that there is a new model coming and look at forums for rumors. I wonder what the reaction will be for those people

The same as it is for any person who buys a console during the holiday and a new model is announced the following year.

Happens all the time lol

 

[My Tulpa]

Based on reports the Switch 4K seems to be a full successor.

Not any reports I’ve read.

But then again, I never saw the Xbox One X as a full successor to the Xbox One. Dunno why other people would. Maybe I’m in the minority here.

[edit: sorry I got mixed up, this is a double post to this post on my part, my bad! ]

 

[TonyBaduy]

I'd rather the next Mario Kart to cut down the resolution than the framerate on 3-4 player mode and it probably would give good results, going from 4k to 1440p or 1080p would probably not be a bad compromise to keep the 60fps.

 

[ILikeFeet]

I'd rather the next Mario Kart to cut down the resolution than the framerate on 3-4 player mode and it probably would give good results, going from 4k to 1440p or 1080p would probably not be a bad compromise to keep the 60fps.

games hitting 4K output is gonna be a rare sight, the next mario kart will probably top out at 1440p or 1800p and will have been upscaled to get there

 

[Dakhil]

As for 6LPP, it will probably remain dead because 4LPE/LPP will use all the Samsung EUV toolings available for 1 or 2 years. That said, I would expect Nvidia to use a good portion of their remaining 8 nm capacity for a smaller GA103/GA106/GA107 and also for Orin/X/S once they have migrated to 5 nm for Lovelace.

I wouldn't necessarily say Samsung will prioritise all of the EUV lithography machines for Samsung's 4 nm** process nodes, considering the IBM Telum's currently fabricated using Samsung's 7LPP process node. And Tesla's HW 4.0's rumoured to be fabricated using Samsung's 7LPP process node as well.

But I do agree that Samsung will probably prioritise most of the EUV lithography machines for Samsung's 4 nm** process nodes.

** → a marketing nomenclature for all foundry companies

 

[NineTailSage]

TSMC pushing wafer shipments for TSMC's N3 process node to Q1 2023 due to problems with TSMC's N3 process node definitely allows Intel and Samsung to have a legitimate chance to catch up to and/or be competitive against TSMC in 2025, assuming Intel and Samsung don't screw up. And so far, Samsung's on track to be the first foundry company to use gate-all-around field-effect transistors (GAAFETs).

Samsung's 3nm (GAAFETs) process will essentially bring it in parity density wise with TSMC's 5nm, but should give Samsung at least an advantage in the jump on first to using gate-all-around. Intel on the other hand would clearly have the density advantage for quite sometime once it gets up and runnning, to which both companies are currently expected to beat TSMC to the (GAAFETs) process

TSMC dossier (4): Technology contention among world-class leaders

Intel claims that TSMC's 7nm process is the equivalent of Intel's 10nm process. This may be true in terms of tech specs but Intel hasn't really outraced still TSMC. Samsung, on several occasions, announced they led TSMC in launching more advanced process technologies, but it failed to secure key...

www.digitimes.com

Jon from Spawn Wave uploaded a video on tearing down the OLED model. It seems like although the kickstand housing is made from plastic, the hinges for the kickstand are made from metal.

I'll have to check out Jon's video, its funny how it isn't immediately clear on what is used for the kickstand when people first encounter it.

 

[NineTailSage]

I wouldn't necessarily say Samsung will prioritise all of the EUV lithography machines for Samsung's 4 nm** process nodes, considering the IBM Telum's currently fabricated using Samsung's 7LPP process node. And Tesla's HW 4.0's rumoured to be fabricated using Samsung's 7LPP process node as well.

But I do agree that Samsung will probably prioritise most of the EUV lithography machines for Samsung's 4 nm** process nodes.

** → a marketing nomenclature for all foundry companies

Funny enough judging by this article (if the projections pan out)
Samsung's 4nm density gains over their 5nm process should bring it much closer to TSMC's 4nm density than they have been throughout the 5nm race between the two companies.

TSMC and Samsung's 4nm Nodes to Power Top-end Processors in 2022: A Closer Look at the Two | Hardware Times

The 7nm and 5nm races were almost single-handedly dominated by TSMC. Samsung’s 7nm node suffered from a lack of adopters, allegedly due to poor yields, while its 5nm node performs more or less the same as TSMC’s 7nm-class node. Furthermore, the Exynos 2100 which is fabbed on Samsung’s 5nm...

www.hardwaretimes.com

 

[lexony]

Yeah i hope Nintendo has an noticeably improved joy con setup for Switch 2 even if it means we have to buy it separately.





I really want something like this but with analog triggers and better analog placement and supports all the features of Next gen Switch. Third party joy con tend lack features of the official Nintendo licensed controllers.

They analog sticks look really small though

 

[My Tulpa]

I don’t agree. I believe it will be Switch 2.

The hardware is too big of an upgrade. It has brand new custom chip. They’ll want mega sales from this investment and not just from those wanting to upgrade for higher res and better frame rates. When iterations come out, the majority of people stick with the original hardware. Not so with next generation devices. Nintendo will want it known that this hardware is the future of Switch

Nintendo doesn’t care if you buy a Switch OLED or a Switch 4K in 2023.

They care about software sales.

The whole point of consolidating their software development teams into one area, and consolidating hardware into one platform, is to avoid exactly the kind of situations “true successor clean breaks” have wrought.

Nintendo making it known that the Switch platform will have a vastly long lifecycle…providing iteration upgrade power boosts for those who want it…is the better path than trying to say that with a “next gen Switch 2 true successor” type of marketing.

The Game Boy Color is a completely different class of upgrade than what's being expected with Switch 4k. The thing was basically just an overclocked Game Boy with some graphics upgrades to support color, and was almost certainly only ever made because the GBA ran into some development issues. Switch 4k is looking to move the CPU and GPU to designs multiple generations newer.

Consoles don't just drop dead when their successor releases, especially not recently.

Yea I’m not saying the power upgrade of the Switch 4K is the same as the Game Boy Color, I’m saying it will be treated the same by Nintendo. A revision, an iteration, part of the same platform family.

It matters a lot.

You think the PS5 would be getting mega sales if it was called the PS4 Pro Plus?

I do, yes. The Ps5 is basically a Ps4 Pro Plus, imo.

Some people bought a ps4 pro in 2017, some waited for the ps5. Some people bought the ps5 in 2020, some will wait for the inevitable ps5 pro. I don’t see much difference anymore.

[BGCOLOR=rgb(231, 231, 231)]Huh, Nintendo hasn't confirmed anything.[/BGCOLOR]

When I said “according to Nintendo” I meant how they will view and market the upgrade model next year, not that they had specifically said anything about it.

And Nintendo using Nvidia ampere or better with A78 CPUs would be next generation, not a revision.

I don’t see the point in using the term “next gen” for anything really. It will play the Switch family of games with better resolution and performance. Doesn’t really matter how you quantify the hardware numbers of its guts. That’s irrelevant to the discussion of “true successor/next gen”

The only difference between this new upgrade model and, say, the Xbox One X, is Nintendo won’t put any kind of mandates on developers that they HAVE to make their releases run on the 2021 Switch OLED. Most will, some won’t.

 

[mariodk18]

Didn’t MK64 run at 30 fps?

 

[Dakhil]

Funny enough judging by this article (if the projections pan out)
Samsung's 4nm density gains over their 5nm process should bring it much closer to TSMC's 4nm density than they have been throughout the 5nm race between the two companies.

TSMC and Samsung's 4nm Nodes to Power Top-end Processors in 2022: A Closer Look at the Two | Hardware Times

The 7nm and 5nm races were almost single-handedly dominated by TSMC. Samsung’s 7nm node suffered from a lack of adopters, allegedly due to poor yields, while its 5nm node performs more or less the same as TSMC’s 7nm-class node. Furthermore, the Exynos 2100 which is fabbed on Samsung’s 5nm...

www.hardwaretimes.com

So far, the transistor density for Samsung's 4 nm** process nodes is still estimated by WikiChips to be 137.04 MTr/mm², which is a ~8% increase in transistor density over Samsung's 5 nm** process node (126.89 MTr/mm²).

TSMC's 5 nm** process nodes are estimated by WikiChips to have a transistor density of 171.3 MTr/mm². And based on TSMC's slide on TSMC's N4 process node, I think TSMC's N4 process node would have an estimated transistor density of ~181.58 MTr/mm².

So yes, Samsung's 4 nm** process nodes so far is technically closer to the estimated transistor density of TSMC's N4 process node than Samsung's 5 nm** process nodes, considering Samsung's 5 nm** process nodes have a ~43.1% decrease in transistor density compared to TSMC's N4 process node, although not significantly so. Samsung's 4 nm** process nodes still have a ~32.5% decrease in transistor density compared to TSMC's N4 process node.

** → a marketing nomenclature for all foundry companies

 

[Pokemaniac]

Yea I’m not saying the power upgrade of the Switch 4K is the same as the Game Boy Color, I’m saying it will be treated the same by Nintendo. A revision, an iteration, part of the same platform family.

Switch 4k is going to last a whole lot longer than the Game Boy Color did. It's probably going to get a full generational cycle.

 

[My Tulpa]

badum-tshhh

I'm curious if the influx of PC portable gaming machines over the next year-n-half will move the needle for Switch 4K system design. E.g. Force their hand w/ super-fast SSD and memory, 16gb memory, hardware acceleration for folder and theme support, etc

Nintendo isn’t going to be affected at all by the Steam Deck.

Not only will it be a relatively “niche” selling piece of hardware, but the machine has nothing to do with Nintendo software.

Nintendo will always make design decisions on what they feel is needed to make their games look/run how they feel they should within their hardware restriction.

They never will be influenced by how a machine is designed to run 3rd party PC type games. Whether that machine is portable or stationary

 

[lemonfresh]

Not any reports I’ve read.

But then again, I never saw the Xbox One X as a full successor to the Xbox One. Dunno why other people would. Maybe I’m in the minority here.

[edit: sorry I got mixed up, this is a double post to this post on my part, my bad! ]

What reports did you read, we are getting our info from from @NateDrake he revealed new info in his latest podcast he said it would be a successor.

 

[Dakhil]

What reports did you read, we are getting our info from from @NateDrake he revealed new info in his latest podcast he said it would be a successor.

NateDrake explicitly said he doesn't know whether or not the DLSS model* would be marketed as a mid-gen refresh or a successor.

 

[NateDrake]

What reports did you read, we are getting our info from from @NateDrake he revealed new info in his latest podcast he said it would be a successor.

I said I'm not referring to it as a Pro anymore, simply because I do not know how it will be positioned. I'm calling Super Switch 4k -- whether they choose to call it Switch 2 or not is up to Nintendo. Too many are focused on whether it is a revision or successor.

There's new Switch hardware in the hands of developers & the kits have DLSS functionality and 4K support. That's the important stuff.

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

I think Dakhil meant curved in a different way, not arched

I said I'm not referring to it as a Pro anymore, simply because I do not know how it will be positioned. I'm calling Super Switch 4k -- whether they choose to call it Switch 2 or not is up to Nintendo. Too many are focused on whether it is a revision or successor.

There's new Switch hardware in the hands of developers & the kits have DLSS functionality and 4K support. That's the important stuff.

More importantly, devs are excited to do things with it

Which excites me personally.

 

[ILikeFeet]

I mentioned this in the discord, but I wonder how DLSS will work on Dane given what we know about it on desktop hardware. one of the ideas brought up is a custom model that sacrifices quality for speed. another idea is 4th gen tensor cores in lovelace that's even more performant than Ampere (you can already see Gen 3 being more performant than Gen 2 in the second chart)

 

[Dakhil]

I think Dakhil meant curved in a different way, not arched

Correct. I meant curved in a similar manner to the curve in the PDP Joy-Con Gel Guards.

 

[karmitt]

Outside of beefier hardware, what else should Nintendo add to the new Switch?

They already have gyro/IR, HD rumble, OLED screen and amiibo/NFC tech. What else can they add to be an upgrade over the current Switch?

Premium build quality - OLED is an excellent start and I really hope they don't drop the quality on their next release

Whatever hardware it takes to make sure they have a modern online multiplayer experience on the console. I want friend invites, party chat etc. On top of this, a solution for headphones + mic when the system is docked. I play with Arctis 9X on XSX and the experience has been great. I want the same on Switch multiplayer titles. Splatoon as a franchise suffers because Nintendo doesn't care enough about this space

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

I mentioned this in the discord, but I wonder how DLSS will work on Dane given what we know about it on desktop hardware. one of the ideas brought up is a custom model that sacrifices quality for speed. another idea is 4th gen tensor cores in lovelace that's even more performant than Ampere (you can already see Gen 3 being more performant than Gen 2 in the second chart)

Just reminded me that I made a post on this:

Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation and Discussion |OT|: "Now You're Playing with Super Power!" Nintendo - OT

Nate, are you able to confirm if the software you’re aware of that’s slated for 2022 is intended as a Pro exclusive? You’ve mentioned that you’re aware of some exclusive software in the past, I believe. Just curious as it may give a sense of how prevalent we expect exclusives to be.

www.resetera.com

Going through the chain of quotes, giving the overall idea with DLSS, at least with UE4.

@Anatole I'm not sure if this is what you were referring to with the DLSS times?

Correct. I meant curved in a similar manner to the curve in the PDP Joy-Con Gel Guards.

Hell yeah, something like this but official ones, would be a good way to differentiate the others from this new model at first glance even if compatible with the old ones and vice versa.

 

[TonyBaduy]

games hitting 4K output is gonna be a rare sight, the next mario kart will probably top out at 1440p or 1800p and will have been upscaled to get there

I meant with DLSS included, not native 4k. In any case, as long as they can just drop the res to a point it still looks good while performing at 60fps, I am good. It'd be the best Mario Kart for local multiplayer as long as they don't drop the ball on battle mode again (and if they do, please fix it with DLC).

 

[Vanillalite]

Didn’t MK64 run at 30 fps?

MK64 was all over the frame rate map depending upon the stage, what was going on at the time on screen, and if it was SP or MP.

 

[ILikeFeet]

I meant with DLSS included, not native 4k. In any case, as long as they can just drop the res to a point it still looks good while performing at 60fps, I am good. It'd be the best Mario Kart for local multiplayer as long as they don't drop the ball on battle mode again (and if they do, please fix it with DLC).

I'm talking about with DLSS too. Computation time is relative to output resolution, so aiming lower at 1440p or 1800p and then letting the tv do the rest of the work, devs can squeeze more out of the system