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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

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I wonder in what ways nintendo is going make the new switch look much different from the current switch from the outside, it seems like if it looks almost identical to the current oled switch other than name it could confuse the average person imo

Maybe an even bigger screen than the oled switch? Make the whole system bigger and give it a 7.5 inch screen with even less bezel? Along with completely different looking joycons?
 
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BlueManifest said:
I understood what you were saying, don’t see how others didnt
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We even entered the topic specifically referencing the tweet of doubt & saying 'this is how it can be achieved'. Maybe it is unclear but it didn't seem so when we recorded the discussion.
 
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NateDrake said:
Legit shocked the BC element is the key talking point. We wanted to dismiss the fears that BC would be an unattainable feat by showcasing several solutions that Nintendo/Nvidia could utilize.
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So I'm guessing they will patch the older games like botw to work in 4k? or will the old switch games not run in 4k at all if there is BC?
 
Wow that thread on the other forum is a mess, not surprised. People don't read or listen to actual points and just make assumptions based on console war bs.
 
NateDrake said:
Legit shocked the BC element is the key talking point. We wanted to dismiss the fears that BC would be an unattainable feat by showcasing several solutions that Nintendo/Nvidia could utilize.
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By "showcasing several solutions" I think that you inadvertently allow for "look how difficult improbable it is!" concern trolling. Not saying any of these is your fault though.
 
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NateDrake said:
Legit shocked the BC element is the key talking point. We wanted to dismiss the fears that BC would be an unattainable feat by showcasing several solutions that Nintendo/Nvidia could utilize.
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Just finished listening, and I think I understand.

I (as a layperson) simply assumed that they'd use a naturally compatible SoC and thus have natural BC. Therefore ANY discussion that there is a problem to be solved here comes as a bit of a shock.

Further, MVG casually drops the "don't get mad, but what if it's just not backwards compatible" lol. And you can be heard groaning / chuckling, but he throws it out there.

And if they go the patch route, will we get all our third party favs on the new machine? I'm not leaving Rain World behind, damn it!

Great pod though, you laid everything out very, very clearly to someone who hasn't been paying much attention to the tech part. I have always expected a next-gen machine in March 2023 purely from a business perspective and having heard your pod I'm glad to be able to say I'm sticking to that.

EDIT: Oh, are you referring to the Era thread where that's literally all they're discussing? Didn't realize. I thought you meant in general.
 
Heron said:
Just finished listening, and I think I understand.

I (as a layperson) simply assumed that they'd use a naturally compatible SoC and thus have natural BC. Therefore ANY discussion that there is a problem to be solved here comes as a bit of a shock.

Further, MVG casually drops the "don't get mad, but what if it's just not backwards compatible" lol. And you can be heard groaning / chuckling, but he throws it out there.

And if they go the patch route, will we get all our third party favs on the new machine? I'm not leaving Rain World behind, damn it!

Great pod though, you laid everything out very, very clearly to someone who hasn't been paying much attention to the tech part. I have always expected a next-gen machine in March 2023 purely from a business perspective and having heard your pod I'm glad to be able to say I'm sticking to that.
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IF they go the patch route, it would be far more limited -- at least initially. Each game would need to be tested & patched. That's why you see MS do batches of new Xbox OG or Xbox 360 games.
 
NateDrake said:
IF they go the patch route, it would be far more limited -- at least initially. Each game would need to be tested & patched. That's why you see MS do batches of new Xbox OG or Xbox 360 games.
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The current eshop on the switch is the biggest digital library Nintendo has ever had, the most 3rd party games and indie games the eshop has ever had, just wouldn’t make sense to throw all of that away after building it up for 5 years

I don’t see games like hotline Miami and axiom verge being ported over to a new system once again if the new system didn’t have BC, some of the older games like that would never be on a Nintendo system again because the dev would eventually lose interest to keep porting it
 
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NateDrake said:
If they want BotW to run at 4K they would need to patch in DLSS support. The system won't default give the game such a feature.
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Exactly right, Nvidia should be able to solve this problem without putting a whole Maxwell GPU on the motherboard, and my solution posted in here is just one way to probably accomplish this. Switch BC will happen without patches or Switch 2 just won't happen. Patches would be used for evergreens like Botw, Odyssey, Smash, Animal Crossing, MK8D, to achieve 4K via DLSS, or just to get the games to run on Dane's GPU natively, allowing for much more power than whatever Maxwell solution they come up with.

One reason they could go my route, is that they could allow Switch games to run better on Dane if it had 256 Maxwell shaders, as the clock of the GPU would determine its performance, meaning if you run it at 768MHz, you get docked performance from the Switch, but if you clock the GPU to 1GHz for Switch games, then you get 20-30% higher performance from the GPU, this allows games that use dynamic range and have frame rate issues, to be solved. Basically you'd always be running at the best settings Switch 1 games are meant to run at. Patches would be needed to bring resolution or frame rates beyond that.
 
Sol said:
He's heard from developer sources that it's being positioned as a revision, but says later he doesn't know if it's being positioned as a revision or a successor...? I'm confused by that part.
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Early impressions were that it would be positioned as a revision, based on things devs told him, not that devs told him definitively it was a revision. He's less convinced that's the case - and that while the technology plan seems in place, basically unchanged from last year, delays bringing it to market (covid/chip shortages) may mean that Nintendo changes their marketing plan anyway.

Sol said:
If it's a revision, it will have BC. If it's a successor, it should still absolutely have BC.
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Agreed. That's what the product should have, and most people here (including myself) think it will.

Sol said:
Honestly the notion of this device not being backwards compatible with the Switch library is patently ridiculous. Which means it's exactly the kind of thing Nintendo would unfortunately do.
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No one here seriously believes that Nintendo is dropping BC.

However Nintendo is between a rock and a hard place technically - there is no upgrade path that gives you a more powerful Switch with BC for "free." Unlike a PC there isn't just a more powerful version of the hardware that they can use and everything Just Works.

Sol said:
Isn't the Switch like the Xbox and PC? Meaning there's a thin software layer that interacts with the hardware, and the developers code on top of that software layer? Thereby ensuring compatibility regardless of subtle changes in the underlying hardware?
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It's not like the PC at all in that way (neither are older Xboxen, I don't actually know about Series S/X, but I doubt it). But this isn't a subtle change anyway - see the rock and a hard place, above.
 
oldpuck said:
However Nintendo is between a rock and a hard place technically - there is no upgrade path that gives you a more powerful Switch with BC for "free." Unlike a PC there isn't just a more powerful version of the hardware that they can use and everything Just Works.
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Even on PC everything doesn’t just work, the older a game the less likely it will be able to run on newer PC hardware without modding or some sort of emulation.
 
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NateDrake said:
Legit shocked the BC element is the key talking point. We wanted to dismiss the fears that BC would be an unattainable feat by showcasing several solutions that Nintendo/Nvidia could utilize.
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maybe I’m over-psycho analyzing and projecting, but the BC chatter in here doesn’t surprise me. I think a lot of people are attached to the Switch console life cycle (rightfully so) and want to carry this incredible legacy library forward.
 
Horrible how that other forum reacted to the discussion. There were really interesting points such as third parties already on board, 4k output, possible release date, etc. But it all came down to:

"Ewwwrz, no BC lolol, I knew it. Imma out Nintendo. F you btw, haha.
 
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King_Dodongo said:
Horrible how that other forum reacted to the discussion. There were really interesting points such as third parties already on board, 4k display, possible release date, etc. But it all came down to:

"Ewwwrz, no BC lolol, I knew it. Imma out Nintendo. F you btw, haha.
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There isn’t a 4k display, it can output 4K in docked.
 
SpringwoodSlasher said:
maybe I’m over-psycho analyzing and projecting, but the BC chatter in here doesn’t surprise me. I think a lot of people are attached to the Switch console life cycle (rightfully so) and want to carry this incredible legacy library forward.
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Which is what I said. I said there is no way they don't have BC because of the software library and push for digital adoption, thus, the concern cited by dataminers is premature given Nintendo/Nvidia have numerous avenues to utilize to make BC a reality.
 
SpringwoodSlasher said:
maybe I’m over-psycho analyzing and projecting, but the BC chatter in here doesn’t surprise me. I think a lot of people are attached to the Switch console life cycle (rightfully so) and want to carry this incredible legacy library forward.
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and they won't have a problem doing so. it's an overblown issue
 
Nate's new podcast reminded me why it was wise for me to not jump on the Switch OLED, though I gotta admit I really love the OLED's white joycons and dock, and I'm gonna be pretty sad if they don't make that a color choice for the next Switch iteration.
 
NateDrake said:
Legit shocked the BC element is the key talking point. We wanted to dismiss the fears that BC would be an unattainable feat by showcasing several solutions that Nintendo/Nvidia could utilize.
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I don't think it's surprising really. I mean realistically most of the other highlights are more or less known elements that have been brought up by you in forum posts or previous discussions and have gotten some level of notice from the wider audience. The BC element, and dataminers casting doubt on prospects, is probably a new angle on the device for many people and obviously potentially an extremely controversial decision from Nintendo if they skip it, so even a suggestion that it could be missing is going to generate a ton of hot takes and negativity.
 
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NateDrake said:
Which is what I said. I said there is no way they don't have BC because of the software library and push for digital adoption, thus, the concern cited by dataminers is premature given Nintendo/Nvidia have numerous avenues to utilize to make BC a reality.
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If anyone thoroughly listened to your podcast and walked away outraged, then they wanted to be outraged in the first place!
The whole software stack side of gaming isn't my area of expertise so I was extremely excited to listen because of the concerns that SciresM brought up. So hearing you guys discuss the many different options outside of what was initially presented on this subject was comforting and informative.

It's also not giving enough credit to Nvidia that they themselves couldn't foreshadow this event coming down the road and wouldn't have solutions in mind for the successor Switch that would make this as painless as possible.
 
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Im probably in the minority of not caring about BC. I want new hardware that is capable. If BC is sacrificed then I’m okay. Look at what craziness they did just to get BC on Wii U. That SOC could have been so much more modern.
 
Miraj said:
Nate's new podcast reminded me why it was wise for me to not jump on the Switch OLED, though I gotta admit I really love the OLED's white joycons and dock, and I'm gonna be pretty sad if they don't make that a color choice for the next Switch iteration.
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Same, people are enjoying their oleds, but I'm out here waiting cause I dont want to waste money on another switch I'll probably use fir an extra year. The oled screen impressions make it hard to resist tho. But I must not cave in
 
So IFixIt has finally released an article about IFixIt's teardown of the OLED model with high resolution pictures.

Originally, I thought it was likely that the OLED model uses a PI3USB31532 chip, a USB 3.2 Gen 2/DisplayPort 1.4 crossbar switch, since the OLED model's dock was shown to use the RTD2172N chip from Realtek, which based on a similarly named chip from Realtek, the RTD2172U chip, is a DisplayPort 1.4 to a HDMI 2.0b converter chip.

But after seeing a high resolution pic of the back of the OLED model's motherboard from IFixIt, and comparing it to a high resolution pic of the Nintendo Switch's motherboard from IFixIt, it turns out that the OLED model practically uses the same PI3USB30532 chip, a USB 3.2 Gen 1/DisplayPort 1.2 crossbar switch, as the Nintendo Switch.

In spite of DisplayPort 1.2 having a max bandwidth of 17.28 Gbps and HDMI 2.0b having a max bandwidth of 18 Gbps, the OLED model, theoretically speaking, should still support up to 4K 60 Hz for TV mode. But don't expect the OLED model to output higher than 4:2:0 chroma*** and a 12-bit colour depth for TV mode since that requires the bandwidth to be greater than 17.28 Gbps, or a minimum of 17.82 Gbps of bandwidth.

*** → YCBCR 4:2:0 sampling mode (Y420VDB)

The takeaway here is that my initial assumption turned out to be incorrect, @Jersh.

#Salt said:
Quick question, is this the new official thread for speculation right, and is the resetera thread dead now?
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Yes. The ResetEra thread is definitely not as active as before, but it's far from being completely dead.
 
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So all the new discussions and rumours etc. will be posted here? Sorry if this is off-topic, I just want to know which forum to be active on
 
#Salt said:
So all the new discussions and rumours etc. will be posted here? Sorry if this is off-topic, I just want to know which forum to be active on
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Yeah, but I'll be updating the OP here at FamiBoards and on ResetEra.
 
I'm team BC solely based on Nintendo's track record with handhelds being BC. Way better than their home console track record
 
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I think the BC discussion in general is fine, but really isn't debatable whether or not it is technically possible for Nintendo to provide BC in their next system. It is 100% possible if that is what Nintendo wanted, that's just a fact. Many feasible solutions have already been suggested. Whether or not any of them are likely is another matter entirely.
 
I keep hearing about how Steam Deck is gonna be a grrreat Nintendo Switch when it comes out thx to emulation.

Soooo ... Couldnt Dane just like run RyujinX ot something? Boom prob solved 🤠
 
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Dark Cloud said:
Like MVG said Microsoft did it. Nintendo can do the same
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I don't think they will ever do something like this, it's already in HD.
BOTW2 could be a cross-gen title with DLSS compatibility (TP (Skyward wasn't because controller), BOTW plus oracles ) and Metroid could be the real showcase for Switch 2.
 
NateDrake said:
Legit shocked the BC element is the key talking point. We wanted to dismiss the fears that BC would be an unattainable feat by showcasing several solutions that Nintendo/Nvidia could utilize.
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Didn't Nintendo only ditch BC only when they were going to make a significant jump of architectures? I find surprising that people talk about it as if it was a surefire thing.
Nintendo spent a lot of money creating the frankestein inside of the Wii U so they could maintain BC, why is it unreasonable to expect them to do the same now? more so when the architectures are actually more familar now.
 
Onilink said:
I don't think they will ever do something like this, it's already in HD.
BOTW2 could be a cross-gen title with DLSS compatibility (TP (Skyward wasn't because controller), BOTW plus oracles ) and Metroid could be the real showcase for Switch 2.
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The best we can hope for is definitely that unpatched software hits the max dynamic res/ framerate at all times on Dane.
 
DJBlitzkrieg said:
Didn't Nintendo only ditch BC only when they were going to make a significant jump of architectures? I find surprising that people talk about it as if it was a surefire thing.
Nintendo spent a lot of money creating the frankestein inside of the Wii U so they could maintain BC, why is it unreasonable to expect them to do the same now? more so when the architectures are actually more familar now.
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Around when switch launched, nvidia ceo expecte the partnership to last at least 2 decades. It’s very likely future bc was a core tenant of that partnership since it’s inception.
 
it sure if anyone knows this, but battery life for OLED switch has been tested. At least according to this tester, it's 7% longer then V2 switch and can last 20 minutes more. 4hrs 40 min vs 4hrs 20 min vs 3hrs 28 min (OG Switch) vs 3hrs 19 min (switch lite).

He tested Metroid Dread running at 5 hrs on OLED model at 50% battery life.

Here's hoping that Nintendo aims for V1 switch battery life for Switch 2 (8 or 7nm node), and V2 switch for the inevitable revision (5 or 3 nm mode?).. Prioritizing power would be wise. I don't see the benefit for demanding games to run more than 5 hrs for a revision. 3-4 is the sweet spot for first wave.
 
ShadowFox08 said:
it sure if anyone knows this, but battery life for OLED switch has been tested. At least according to this tester, it's 7% longer then V2 switch and can last 20 minutes more. 4hrs 40 min vs 4hrs 20 min vs 3hrs 28 min (OG Switch) vs 3hrs 19 min (switch lite).

He tested Metroid Dread running at 5 hrs on OLED model at 50% battery life.

Here's hoping that Nintendo aims for V1 switch battery life for Switch 2 (8 or 7nm node), and V2 switch for the inevitable revision (5 or 3 nm mode?).. Prioritizing power would be wise. I don't see the benefit for demanding games to run more than 5 hrs for a revision. 3-4 is the sweet spot for first wave.
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I doubt it will be as bad as v1, maybe something in between.

V1 boost mode was basically a desperate measure to make botw run acceptable. It wasn’t something that was there all along.

It miight be like v1 battery mode.
 
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