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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

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Eclissi said:
Is Switch Oled a bad name when TV mode doesn't have an oled display (if the player has a led TV)? 😜
Click to expand...
I get where this argument comes from, but (and I recognize I'm being nitpicky) whether the TV is OLED or not, the console still is. Naming the console after something the console has (OLED screen) makes sense regardless of whether the TV it's hooked to has the same feature, or the ability to even use the feature. But if the Drake is called "Switch 4K" yet the system itself doesn't have a 4K screen, it can only output 4K and that's only if you have a 4K television, that name feels a bit murky to me. Especially since the power bump will be experienced in handheld at 720, as well. I think "4K" is just far too narrow a description of what this thing will actually do. It deserves a better name.
(Granted, that doesn't mean I think Nintendo will give it a better name 😅)
 
Serif said:
Switch 4K doesn't immediately communicate a power upgrade to me. We in the know are aware that more powerful hardware is needed for 4K DLSS but not everyone does, and might assume it's the current hardware with some kind of upscaling bolted on.

I would assume Nintendo wants to make clear that this is a performance boost that people playing in handheld mode and/or without 4K displays would benefit from. I like "Switch Plus", "Switch Super", etc. (if not Switch 2).

<or use roman numerals, Switch II>
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Just semantic… they just need to market it good for a better understanding and still on switch lifespan.
 
Simba1 said:
What Sony is doing is great and very simple, without any confusion (PS, PS2, PS3, PS4, PS5..),
having on mind that next Switch hardware will also be hybrid, most practical name would simple be Switch 2 (which screams next gen Switch console).
Click to expand...
This is what I would do, however I don’t see Nintendo actually going this route for the first time in their history.
 
”Switch 2.0” would work, I think.

It’s slightly distinct from the other consoles, but still clearly communicates that this device is an upgraded model.
 
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ReddDreadtheLead said:
Have you tried doing a logarithmic curve chart? It can give you the values at certain frequencies even if you can’t exactly hit it. I don’t expect it to be dramatically lower, but lower nonetheless. To a point that is.


That said, thank you very much for this effort! If you have the values at certain frequencies that you tested (from lowest to highest) it may prove fruitful.


Despite the caveats you mentioned of course.


A 5000mAh battery may be needed 🤔, or they should go for that.
Click to expand...

I had hoped to get a power curve going, but unfortunately with only one point I can't really fit a curve! I could do some runs at progressively higher clocks and build a curve from that, but it wouldn't necessarily tell us anything about power consumption at lower clocks, as 1155MHz is close enough to the lowest voltage on the card that the logarithmic relationship will probably no longer hold below that. I'll see if I can find any other overclocking tools that allow more freedom to underclock.

ILikeFeet said:
when you cap power/performance, DLSS can save quite a bit of power


TechPoweredUp reviewed the A2000 and it's hella efficient. half the power of the 3050 for the same performance. I know they had to beat AMD, but damn, why do the rest of the cards have to be so crazy high

clock-vs-voltage.png


www.techpowerup.com

NVIDIA RTX A2000 Review - World’s Fastest ITX Card: Low-Profile and Slot-Powered

NVIDIA's RTX A2000 is the fastest graphics card that fits into a low-profile form factor. It's fast enough for 1080p Full HD Gaming at maximum details and achieves that with 75 W slot power only, which makes it even more energy-efficient than AMD's 6 and 7 nanometer RDNA2 graphics cards.
www.techpowerup.com www.techpowerup.com
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Thanks for sharing this, the voltage/frequency curve looks pretty similar to what I'm seeing on my RTX 3070. It's interesting that the minimum voltage they get (0.652mV) is about 30mV lower than I have on my card. I wonder if this is just a target market thing (people like me buying an RTX 3070 don't care that much about saving a Watt or two at idle), or if the A2000 is simply using better-binned chips, as it's a more expensive card in a more efficiency-conscious segment.

As to why Nvidia's gaming cards aren't all this efficient, it's a combination of cost and gaming customers not caring that much about efficiency. This card uses the same chip as the RTX 3060 (slightly different number of active cores, but pretty close), and the RTX 3060 is about 40-50% more powerful just from the increased power consumption allowing higher clocks. Most customers wouldn't be willing to take such a big drop in performance just for the sake of efficiency.
 
RennanNT said:
I doubt they will turn off TC or even RT cores in portable mode (assuming they are even able to).

Nintendo is totally using those cores for new gameplay ideas, that's part of their DNA.

Not mention that lowering native resolution saves battery, so its quite possible that 540p+DLSS actually saves battery compared to 720p or balances each other out.
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What would the tensor cores even be used for gameplay wise? Besides, there’s going to be a very limited amount of tensor cores on the system, so I don’t know if they’d even have enough to do both DLSS and anything else major with them at the same time.

I know DLSS of higher res is more power efficient than native res, but my point is I’ve not seen anyone show that something like 540p upscaled via DLSS to 720p is more efficient, so I’m just prepared for DLSS to not be used in handheld. I’m not saying it won’t, but since I have literally no idea if there’s diminishing returns regarding power at lower resolutions. I’m just prepared for it not to be there because of this, that’s all.
 
ArchedThunder said:
Nintendo Switch Ultra. Gets across that it’s stronger and Ultra itself is a reference to 4k (Ultra HD). Ultra is also a word used in the mobile space to denote a stronger device.
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Yeah, you've explained it well here. This name really covers all the features, doesn't sound bad and is used nowadays.

Now I wish they really use this! 😛
 
Hermii said:
Fuck these guys!
Click to expand...
Interesting response! 😂
Simba1 said:
We again talk about Nvidia GPU and ARM CPU, not about something completely different (like AMD CPU/GPU).
I mean, PS5 and XsX-S also have BC despite using there is quite difference betwine PS5/XB1.
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Yeah, iirc there is a patent that Sony has for their BC with the PS4 where it basically disables the SMT in the CPU, but I think they also clock it down? The last part I don’t remember but the first part I do remember where it disables some aspects.

And RDNA1+2 of the consoles is very different from the GCN architecture of old.
PandaAndino said:
But Nate said late 2022 few days ago.
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Wasn’t it that he heard it could be late 2022 not that it def is late 2022?
BlueKing said:
The Switch 4K name in theory sounds nice, but it would give the impression that all games on it are 4K, which wouldn't be true and could be called false advertising.
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I mean, the PS4 and One X are advertised as being 4K machines even in instances where they don’t hit it. Or the Series X and PS5 that have 8k slapped on the box.

I don’t think they really care tbh lol, if they feel like you need to have a 4K TV to appreciate the resolution above FHD.


Speaking of, maybe Nintendo Switch + UHD model as a name if we are entertaining “4K Model”?🤔

I mean UHD might make sense, the lite is the Switch HD, does 720p.

The switch is the FHD, does 1080p and it’s also the full switch experience of switching and detachable controllers.

Switch succ would be the UHD console. Can do 4K. Funny how Switch Lite, Switch/OLED and Switch UHD would fall in a sequence order of what they can output!

Or play around with it and get “Nintendo Switch Ultra” 🤣


Trevelyan said:
but in a more consumer friendly, and not gamer-centric, vernacular
Click to expand...
To be fair, it having the name of “super” is a gamer centric vernacular when applied to the Nintendo console. The last time they popularly used the term Super was with the SNES!

Though, this is just a thought: Nintendo Switch S instead of Super Nintendo Switch.

NVidia has some GPUs that go by the naming of Super added to the end. But there’s also some products that go by the name of S to signify it’s a better model like the older iPhones which I might add were very successful with the S.


So, Nintendo Switch S.
Serif said:
I would assume Nintendo wants to make clear that this is a performance boost that people playing in handheld mode and/or without 4K displays would benefit from. I like "Switch Plus", "Switch Super", etc. (if not Switch 2).

<or use roman numerals, Switch II>
Click to expand...
I like these.
ArchedThunder said:
What would the tensor cores even be used for gameplay wise?
Click to expand...
AI interactions. A smarter game that learns from you! 😆
Nakapol said:
Switch U, oh no no no no
Click to expand...
It must be done!
 
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ArchedThunder said:
What would the tensor cores even be used for gameplay wise? Besides, there’s going to be a very limited amount of tensor cores on the system, so I don’t know if they’d even have enough to do both DLSS and anything else major with them at the same time.

I know DLSS of higher res is more power efficient than native res, but my point is I’ve not seen anyone show that something like 540p upscaled via DLSS to 720p is more efficient, so I’m just prepared for DLSS to not be used in handheld. I’m not saying it won’t, but since I have literally no idea if there’s diminishing returns regarding power at lower resolutions. I’m just prepared for it not to be there because of this, that’s all.
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I'm sure someone smarter than us could possibly figure out a way to use tensor cores for non-ML tasks. right now there is no incentive, but Nintendo devs would have it. though I would think Nvidia would have said something about usecases themselves by now
 
ILikeFeet said:
I'm sure someone smarter than us could possibly figure out a way to use tensor cores for non-ML tasks. right now there is no incentive, but Nintendo devs would have it. though I would think Nvidia would have said something about usecases themselves by now
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The problem with using ML for something not IQ related on PC, is that it would only be compatible on hardware with ML capibilites.

If you are targeting a console though, that’s not an issue.

Just realized I answered a question you werent asking :p To much fami for me.
 
ILikeFeet said:
I'm sure someone smarter than us could possibly figure out a way to use tensor cores for non-ML tasks. right now there is no incentive, but Nintendo devs would have it. though I would think Nvidia would have said something about usecases themselves by now
Click to expand...
Well tensor cores are basically just reduced-precision matrix multiplication units. Matrix multiplication is a common enough operation in games, but I couldn't say whether using FP16 in those cases would still provide sufficient accuracy. I'm sure at least some developers will find non-ML use-cases for them, though.

Edit: The other factor is matrix size. Tensor cores are designed to handle relatively large matrices (larger than the 3x3 and 4x4 matrices you'd typically see used in graphics code), so you'd need use-cases that can leverage the larger input matrix sizes to make really good use of tensor cores.
 
ArchedThunder said:
What would the tensor cores even be used for gameplay wise?
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There were multiple examples earlier in the thread and Nintendo devs have a lot more creativity than me, but a major example would be physics. That plays a important role in many of their big titles, sometimes the game is made around it (like water physics in Sunshine and gravity in Galaxy).

ArchedThunder said:
Besides, there’s going to be a very limited amount of tensor cores on the system, so I don’t know if they’d even have enough to do both DLSS and anything else major with them at the same time.
Click to expand...
They're not forced to use DLSS. Most first party games already looks quite good on Switch, they don't really have to push 4K for all games.
 
Serif said:
Switch 4K doesn't immediately communicate a power upgrade to me. We in the know are aware that more powerful hardware is needed for 4K DLSS but not everyone does, and might assume it's the current hardware with some kind of upscaling bolted on.

I would assume Nintendo wants to make clear that this is a performance boost that people playing in handheld mode and/or without 4K displays would benefit from. I like "Switch Plus", "Switch Super", etc. (if not Switch 2).

<or use roman numerals, Switch II>
Click to expand...
Yeah Switch 4k sounds like a "pro" upgrade. I don't think it will be Wii U levels bad, but Nintendo needs to advertise it carefully.
 
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Honestly, whatever Nintendo name it, I just hope it isn't a WiiU part 2. They need to be very clear that this machine is a new generation, much more stronger than Switch. That's why I like Switch 2/II. It's clear, simple and concise.
 
ShaunSwitch said:
I hope they do call it Switch OLED 4K, just so when the AR patents come to fruition they can call the next device the "Switch OLED 4K With Camera for AR."
Click to expand...

I don’t think OLED 4K is that unlikely honestly.
 
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ShaunSwitch said:
I hope they do call it Switch OLED 4K, just so when the AR patents come to fruition they can call the next device the "Switch OLED 4K With Camera for AR."
Click to expand...

Given the massive increase in hardware power and features coming with this new chip, I don't think "Switch OLED 4K" does it justice.

"Switch 2", "Super Switch", "Switch Pro" all seem more appropriate to me in terms of names that really convey the magnitude of the upgrade.
 
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Hermii said:
IMO the difference is Xbox one x kept the jaguar cores. If it had Zen, MS could have credibly branded it as a new gen imo.

Also ampere has a bunch of features that cross gen games simply won’t take advantage of, mesh shaders being one of them. It’s more than just a more powerful maxwell.
Click to expand...

Well, I chalk that up more about Nintendo having to follow where Nvidia is at with their current SoC choices than anything else. It’s not like Nintendo was requesting A78 cpu cores or anything.

Nintendo was looking at a more powerful Switch model, even they didn’t like having to run their games sub native resolution and sub native refresh rates all the time.

Nvidia informs them how they could use their new DLSS/tensor core tech that can achieve 4K/60fps gameplay from the 540p-900p profile gaming they are already making. And works with them how to get enough power on an SoC to allow them to achieve this while keeping clocks/power draw low.

So yes, while we all can view the tech advancement and power differentials as much much better than what Nvidia had in 2015…doesn’t mean anything about how it’s going to be used.

That’s why I dislike when people throw around “successor Switch 2 in 2022!” just because of the tech inside.

There is no way Nintendo plans to release a successor to the Switch in its 6th year on the market. They won’t treat it as anything other than a way to play Switch library games with better graphics/performance for the next few years.

Exactly how Sony/Microsoft positioned the pro/X

But of course a lot of the difference will come down to pure marketing.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

And does anyone think Nintendo is going to come out in July and shadow drop this new model saying it releases in 3 months and…oh, by the way…this new very expensive, out of the blue model is our step forward and where we see our console is going beyond the old Switch! Expect us to have moved on from support for the OLED 2 years from now!

There is no way they will position it this way nor treat it this way
 
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ShaunSwitch said:
With this being an UPgraded switch, and Nintendo being Nintendo I could see them calling it the Switch UP and running with a bunch of cheesy marketing.
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During this switch era they’ve been really on the nose though lol

Switch UP sounds like a Wii-Wii U-3DS era name


In fact, Nintendo have been so on the nose during the switch era that they give it a name that can’t be misinterpreted at what it can do or what it does or offers.

Switch: it, uhm, switches lol


Switch Lite: it’s like the switch, except it’s lacking on the switch aspect, hence the name “Lite”

For the record:

www.merriam-webster.com

Definition of LITE

light; diminished or lacking in substance or seriousness; specifically : being an innocuous or unthreatening version —often used postpositively… See the full definition
www.merriam-webster.com www.merriam-webster.com
“diminished or lacking in substance or seriousness”

🤭

Switch OLED model: self explanatory


Switch next will probably be so on the nose people will complain it’s not creative enough 😂
 
Switch 4K is a solid name and all Nintendo would have to do is point out that the Switch rendered up to 1080p and that this new more capable machine can now render up to 4K. I don't think they will call it that though.
 
ReddDreadtheLead said:
During this switch era they’ve been really on the nose though lol

Switch UP sounds like a Wii-Wii U-3DS era name


In fact, Nintendo have been so on the nose during the switch era that they give it a name that can’t be misinterpreted at what it can do or what it does or offers.

Switch: it, uhm, switches lol


Switch Lite: it’s like the switch, except it’s lacking on the switch aspect, hence the name “Lite”

For the record:

www.merriam-webster.com

Definition of LITE

light; diminished or lacking in substance or seriousness; specifically : being an innocuous or unthreatening version —often used postpositively… See the full definition
www.merriam-webster.com www.merriam-webster.com
“diminished or lacking in substance or seriousness”

🤭

Switch OLED model: self explanatory


Switch next will probably be so on the nose people will complain it’s not creative enough 😂
Click to expand...
Switch Up 😂😂
 
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Do we have any confirmation of ROP count from the leak? In desktop Ampere there are 16 ROPs per GPC, and with one GPC on Drake we'd therefore expect 16 ROPs here, but obviously there are enough other changes to the architecture that we probably shouldn't take this for granted.
 
ReddDreadtheLead said:
During this switch era they’ve been really on the nose though lol

Switch UP sounds like a Wii-Wii U-3DS era name


In fact, Nintendo have been so on the nose during the switch era that they give it a name that can’t be misinterpreted at what it can do or what it does or offers.

Switch: it, uhm, switches lol


Switch Lite: it’s like the switch, except it’s lacking on the switch aspect, hence the name “Lite”

For the record:

www.merriam-webster.com

Definition of LITE

light; diminished or lacking in substance or seriousness; specifically : being an innocuous or unthreatening version —often used postpositively… See the full definition
www.merriam-webster.com www.merriam-webster.com
“diminished or lacking in substance or seriousness”

🤭

Switch OLED model: self explanatory


Switch next will probably be so on the nose people will complain it’s not creative enough 😂
Click to expand...
Haha yup, you are absolutely correct. I am just dreaming of some really 90s marketing like in the Sega vs Nintendo console wars days.

It is a relief that Nintendos Fisher price era is behind it, that's for sure.
 
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Ghostsonplanets said:
Honestly, whatever Nintendo name it, I just hope it isn't a WiiU part 2. They need to be very clear that this machine is a new generation, much more stronger than Switch. That's why I like Switch 2/II. It's clear, simple and concise.
Click to expand...
Don't think they will go for the new gen angle, especially since it's guaranteed to be much more expensive than regular Switch.

Most likely they will go for a premium angle.
 
Ghostsonplanets said:
There's a possibility this device comes this year, just like there's the possibility it might only come next year. So don't set your mind in a specific timeframe. I'd argue the key thing to look will be Nintendo FY23 forecast. We will be able to infer some things from their forecast.
Click to expand...

In the past two financial briefings, Nintendo has already talked about Switch growth in its 6th year, which they called “unprecedented” for a usual console.

Furukawa said one of the major reasons for expecting growth is that they see how diversified models releases are appealing to consumers…either for a newcomer to the ecosystem, for increasing the Switch numbers across a household, or someone wanting to replace their current Switch with a newer version.

He said that Nintendo’s own research showed that 20% of Switch’s sold Oct-Dec in key markets “were due to demand for multiple systems within the same family.

We will aim to continuing increasing our sales volume by rigorously responding to this kind of demand for multiple systems”

I really don’t believe Nintendo believes the OLED model alone will account for growth they expect this FY. They have to be envisioning another model option available this Q3/Q4 for growth.


BlueKing said:
The Switch 4K name in theory sounds nice, but it would give the impression that all games on it are 4K, which wouldn't be true and could be called false advertising.
Click to expand...

Can’t wait for the class action lawsuit cause the OLED Switch didn’t turn TVs OLED!

Simba1 said:
What Sony is doing is great and very simple, without any confusion (PS, PS2, PS3, PS4, PS5..),
having on mind that next Switch hardware will also be hybrid, most practical name would simple be Switch 2 (which screams next gen Switch console).
Click to expand...

Eh, Sony can number their systems cause they all do the same exact thing the previous one did and play games the same exact way.

Nintendo usually has changes to gameplay and functions between devices so naming them differently to highlight that has always made more sense.
 
ArchedThunder said:
Nintendo Switch Ultra. Gets across that it’s stronger and Ultra itself is a reference to 4k (Ultra HD). Ultra is also a word used in the mobile space to denote a stronger device.
Click to expand...
This!! I’ve been saying this since the 4K Switch rumors first surfaced and I feel like no one else ever considers it! It just makes the most sense all around!
 
Rogue Agent said:
Yeah, you've explained it well here. This name really covers all the features, doesn't sound bad and is used nowadays.

Now I wish they really use this! 😛
Click to expand...
And I wont stop saying it until the official name is announced.
RennanNT said:
They're not forced to use DLSS. Most first party games already looks quite good on Switch, they don't really have to push 4K for all games.
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Nintendo isn’t going to just have their games be lower res than everyone else on the system. The only time I could see Nintendo not using DLSS is for games that are already at least 1440p, which I don’t think will be something that happens regularly. Also if the system is treated as an iterative successor and almost every Nintendo published title for the first few years works on both old Switches and the new one then they’re pretty much guaranteed to not use the tensor cores for anything but DLSS.
 
Serif said:
Switch 4K doesn't immediately communicate a power upgrade to me. We in the know are aware that more powerful hardware is needed for 4K DLSS but not everyone does, and might assume it's the current hardware with some kind of upscaling bolted on.


I would assume Nintendo wants to make clear that this is a performance boost that people playing in handheld mode and/or without 4K displays would benefit from. I like "Switch Plus", "Switch Super", etc. (if not Switch 2).

<or use roman numerals, Switch II>
Click to expand...
Yeah the issue with Switch 4K is that it's basically like Switch OLED...in the sense that it sounds like the same Switch with a new feature. Might work better if the OLED model didn't exist to establish that naming assoication in the first place.
Dark Cloud said:
They could name it Switch 2 all they want. I just don’t see a clean generation break. It’ll be another iteration.
Click to expand...
Clean breaks are hopefully a thing of the past at this point. PS5/XBS essentially fulfill the "iterative successor" concept already cause backwards compatibility and the amount of multi platform game development across generations these days.
 
KCannon said:
Don't think they will go for the new gen angle, especially since it's guaranteed to be much more expensive than regular Switch.

Most likely they will go for a premium angle.
Click to expand...

Tye said:
This!! I’ve been saying this since the 4K Switch rumors first surfaced and I feel like no one else ever considers it! It just makes the most sense all around!
Click to expand...
As far as slightly annoying & repetitive tangents go, the naming thing is second only to "revision/successor" arguments. But I still need to put my two cents in that I would vote for Ultra (or even Advance). 4k as a name is simple but weird and would probably confuse the average consumer who doesn't even have a 4k TV. And the logical reply to that being "don't worry, most games won't even hit 4k" just makes that name choice even weirder. Sure, stick it on the box and make it a focus of advertising, but name it something else.

Tired: Switch Pro
Wired: Switch Primo (i laughed when I thought of this but it has grown on me, even though it's crazy)
 
ReddDreadtheLead said:
During this switch era they’ve been really on the nose though lol

Switch UP sounds like a Wii-Wii U-3DS era name


In fact, Nintendo have been so on the nose during the switch era that they give it a name that can’t be misinterpreted at what it can do or what it does or offers.

Switch: it, uhm, switches lol


Switch Lite: it’s like the switch, except it’s lacking on the switch aspect, hence the name “Lite”

For the record:

www.merriam-webster.com

Definition of LITE

light; diminished or lacking in substance or seriousness; specifically : being an innocuous or unthreatening version —often used postpositively… See the full definition
www.merriam-webster.com www.merriam-webster.com
“diminished or lacking in substance or seriousness”

🤭

Switch OLED model: self explanatory


Switch next will probably be so on the nose people will complain it’s not creative enough 😂
Click to expand...
Would you say that 3DS XL, new 3DS and 2DS were less on the nose than Switch Lite and Switch OLED?
 
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