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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

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Look over there said:
So none of the 64-bit modules that Intel has validated land exactly at 12 GB 128-bit.
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Probably because laptops equipped with Alder Lake P use LPDDR5 modules with the amount based on the factor of 2 (2 GB, 4 GB, 8 GB, 16 GB).

But in general, desktops and laptops use RAM modules with the amount based on the factor of 2.

However, smartphones do use LPDDR5 modules with the amount based on multiples of 2 (e.g. 12 GB, 18 GB).

And looking into Micron's LPDDR5 catalog, Micron does mention two LPDDR5-6400 modules with a density of 6 GB (48 Gb) and a bus width of 64-bit in production: MT62F768M64D4BG-031 and MT62F768M64D4EK-023.

So fortunately, 128-bit 12 GB of LPPDR5 is a real possibility!
 
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mjayer said:
I would like some thoughts from all the video-game-tech-informed-peeps here on just how much better a title developed as exclusive to this hardware will appear vs cross gen releases? Big leap? Small leap? It depends?
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Somewhere between "big leap" and "depends". We can all see the gap between games designed primarily for Switch and games designed primarily for PS4, and it seems like this difference will be somewhat bigger. On the other hand, NOT having to work on base Switch increases the chance someone tries to push things hard enough that frame rate and resolution suffer versus a base Switch game that's got 90% overhead to blow on such things. To make an analogy: Xenoblade 3 is a very impressive-looking game, but it doesn't in every way outshine 1080p60 Wii U ports.
 
Thank god we got some kind of update or hints about Drake. I was worried we would go a year from Mochizuki’s Sep 30 article without any info (excluding the hack).

Thanks Nate and Polygon for the tidbits today. I’m content for the foreseeable (short term) future.
 
Codename_Steam said:
Are we now looking at PS4 like performance in handheld mode? (Before DLSS)
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Yes, basically it should be similar to the steam deck before DLSS is applied if that helps. It will have a CPU performance closer to steam deck than PS4 (PS4's CPU is much worse) and a GPU on par with Steam deck before DLSS... 12GB RAM at likely 102GB/s is also going to be somewhat comparable to Steam Deck's 16GB at 88GB/s, mainly because Drake will be used in a closed environment while Steam deck is playing games not specifically made for it... When docked Drake will after DLSS likely catch or even exceed XBSS as XBSS is like ~20% faster than PS4 Pro in raw graphics performance thanks to RDNA architecture over Polaris' GCN 4.0 PS4 Pro architecture.

Basically Drake will fit in current generation than Switch did in last generation, in terms of just raw graphical output after DLSS, it should be comparable to the PS2 in terms of performance for that generation up against Gamecube and Xbox... We can think of Steam deck like Dreamcast possibly... and yeah I'd say XBSS is similar to PS2 in terms of it's performance as well.
 
Z0m3le said:
Yes, basically it should be similar to the steam deck before DLSS is applied if that helps. It will have a CPU performance closer to steam deck than PS4 (PS4's CPU is much worse) and a GPU on par with Steam deck before DLSS... 12GB RAM at likely 102GB/s is also going to be somewhat comparable to Steam Deck's 16GB at 88GB/s, mainly because Drake will be used in a closed environment while Steam deck is playing games not specifically made for it... When docked Drake will after DLSS likely catch or even exceed XBSS as XBSS is like ~20% faster than PS4 Pro in raw graphics performance thanks to RDNA architecture over Polaris' GCN 4.0 PS4 Pro architecture.

Basically Drake will fit in current generation than Switch did in last generation, in terms of just raw graphical output after DLSS, it should be comparable to the PS2 in terms of performance for that generation up against Gamecube and Xbox... We can think of Steam deck like Dreamcast possibly... and yeah I'd say XBSS is similar to PS2 in terms of it's performance as well.
Click to expand...
What about the I/O system for Drake?
 
Codename_Steam said:
What about the I/O system for Drake?
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Well hacked OG Switch units can reach 400MB/s, and considering PC HDD tests for spiderman with drives 1/3rd the speed of that, I think it's safe to assume there won't be much of an issue here, especially when developers can target a spec. I assume Nintendo won't limit whatever storage speed because of CPU performance like they did with Switch, I still think UFS is the internal storage they will go with, and using eUFS that is capable of using microsd cards, is sort of the universal approach I could see Nintendo going with, otherwise, I'd expect 128GB internal drive of at least 400MB/s, likely double or triple that speed if UFS is used, and I think we will get a $399 sku with a possible $499 sku with 256GB or even 512GB capacity. We will have to wait and see, but Nintendo has done deluxe hardware for more money with a higher capacity during the Wii U and now Switch era, they know that the deluxe has no problem selling, and having the $399 introduction price helps get people into the stores to be up sold.

I hope to see a direct soon, I don't know if they will show off Drake just yet, but I think the Switch needs a software outlook for 2023 and 2024 at this point and it's about time they lean on the success they have had with metroid dread to introduce another game in the series, whether that is the prime remake that is rumored for this year or prime 4's first in game trailer, I think we could see something in the next 2 or 3 weeks.
 
Z0m3le said:
Yes, basically it should be similar to the steam deck before DLSS is applied if that helps. It will have a CPU performance closer to steam deck than PS4 (PS4's CPU is much worse) and a GPU on par with Steam deck before DLSS... 12GB RAM at likely 102GB/s is also going to be somewhat comparable to Steam Deck's 16GB at 88GB/s, mainly because Drake will be used in a closed environment while Steam deck is playing games not specifically made for it... When docked Drake will after DLSS likely catch or even exceed XBSS as XBSS is like ~20% faster than PS4 Pro in raw graphics performance thanks to RDNA architecture over Polaris' GCN 4.0 PS4 Pro architecture.

Basically Drake will fit in current generation than Switch did in last generation, in terms of just raw graphical output after DLSS, it should be comparable to the PS2 in terms of performance for that generation up against Gamecube and Xbox... We can think of Steam deck like Dreamcast possibly... and yeah I'd say XBSS is similar to PS2 in terms of it's performance as well.
Click to expand...

I don't think that this can be stressed enough, this next Drake Switch will be in a different ballpark from the original and most of it has to do with the advancement of graphics technologies and architecture gains since the Tegra X1 was designed. We only have the Switch to go by in order to see what can be done at the lowest level on Nvidia's hardware and this has clearly been proven with only 400Gflops of GPU performance with a weak CPU...

Not to mention that Nintendo usually does pretty well with correcting bottleneck issues on previous hardware in the next.
 
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KeijiKG said:
I'm imagining an XCX remaster.
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No reason why switch can't handle it though. I kind of think it would be a disservice to not release it on switch actually. It will likely have the same resolutions as the other xenoblade games on switch, but maybe enhanced lighting, draw distance, etc.. Unless they manage to actually pull 720p in handheld and 900p in docked, considering its a 720p game on wii u.
 
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Thraktor said:
My expectation is still $400, with Nintendo pricing it around break-even, and keeping either the original or OLED model around at $300, with the Lite still at $200. But I wouldn't even rule out $350, potentially discontinuing both the original and OLED models shortly after and leaving the Lite as the only original Switch model left.
Click to expand...

Agree, this next gen hardware will most likely be new main model (basically Switch 2) going forward and not just a more expansive option,
so Nintendo will want again not having high price (like $499), so my bet is still at $399.

Talking about RAM/internal configuration, my bet is 8GB/128GB, but I would love to be wrong about RAM.
 
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Thraktor said:
My expectation is still $400, with Nintendo pricing it around break-even, and keeping either the original or OLED model around at $300, with the Lite still at $200. But I wouldn't even rule out $350, potentially discontinuing both the original and OLED models shortly after and leaving the Lite as the only original Switch model left.
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OLED probably wouldn't have a place anymore assuming the new one is also OLED. But I would expect 3 price points to remain for a while, with maybe a TV only model replacing the HAC model after the first year.
 
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TonyBaduy said:
I mean, even the New 3DS had 2x the RAM of the 3DS, so the succ having 3x the RAM shouldn't be too outlandish.
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To be fair there is quite big cost difference between having back than 128MB more RAM in New 3DS, and how potentially having 8GB of RAM more.

Not best comparison, but currently usually only $600+ phones have 12GB LPDDR5 of RAM,
on other hand Steam Deck has 16GB of RAM at price point of $399, so everything is possible.
 
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Dammit you guys are building my hype levels up to over 9000.

I am starting to think something could be happening......

Could be going into mass production soon, late September reveal in a direct for release in March 2023 to get ahead of leaks. Six months in mass production before release could yield 3-4 million units on release day accounting for production ramp up and if it lines up with first year switch production volumes. I think Nintendo knows what customers buy consoles this late in their life cycle and won't be worried about a few lost sales of the current models if those people buy a more expensive model later down the line.

Team 2022 Reveal with March/April 2023 launch. I'm getting way too excited for a possible reveal in less than a month.
 
ShaunSwitch said:
Dammit you guys are building my hype levels up to over 9000.

I am starting to think something could be happening......

Could be going into mass production soon, late September reveal in a direct for release in March 2023 to get ahead of leaks. Six months in mass production before release could yield 3-4 million units on release day accounting for production ramp up and if it lines up with first year switch production volumes. I think Nintendo knows what customers buy consoles this late in their life cycle and won't be worried about a few lost sales of the current models if those people buy a more expensive model later down the line.

Team 2022 Reveal with March/April 2023 launch. I'm getting way too excited for a possible reveal in less than a month.
Click to expand...
Take a cold shower 😉 everything is possible and some things seemed to be similar to what IN SIDE R heard !
Switch power 4K is on the way
 
ShaunSwitch said:
Dammit you guys are building my hype levels up to over 9000.

I am starting to think something could be happening......

Could be going into mass production soon, late September reveal in a direct for release in March 2023 to get ahead of leaks. Six months in mass production before release could yield 3-4 million units on release day accounting for production ramp up and if it lines up with first year switch production volumes. I think Nintendo knows what customers buy consoles this late in their life cycle and won't be worried about a few lost sales of the current models if those people buy a more expensive model later down the line.

Team 2022 Reveal with March/April 2023 launch. I'm getting way too excited for a possible reveal in less than a month.
Click to expand...

If it's releasing in calendar year 2023, it's being announced in calendar year 2023.

They're not letting sales slump for half a year including the whole holiday season.

Homura said:
I think Nintendo would rather make customers angry with a January announcement than kill their holiday sales with an announcement this/next month.
Click to expand...

This.
 
So if there is a new Switch coming how likely is it that this will be revealed in September? I think they will want to handle a next gen version differently and announce it earlier than a typical revision.
 
k samedi said:
So if there is a new Switch coming how likely is it that this will be revealed in September? I think they will want to handle a next gen version differently and announce it earlier than a typical revision.
Click to expand...
Nothing about what we have heard or can deduce about this device suggests they'll be treating it as a new generation. Expect the marketing to make it look more like a premium upgrade, at least at first.
 
k samedi said:
So if there is a new Switch coming how likely is it that this will be revealed in September? I think they will want to handle a next gen version differently and announce it earlier than a typical revision.
Click to expand...
I don‘t think it is very likely for the simple reason that they don‘t want to affect their Holiday/Christmas sales. The Switch is still going strong. If the new Switch comes out in March to Mai 2023 there is still enough time to announce it in January. Even if it would be a fully next gen device (which I don‘t believe) it would make no sense to announce it while the previous generation is still selling so much. Then it would be more likely that the hardware is further away than Q4/Q1.
 
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Homura said:
I think Nintendo would rather make customers angry with a January announcement than kill their holiday sales with an announcement this/next month.
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I question how many would actually be angry after 5 years. that's always been the price of being late. and folks this late don't even buy that many games
 
Eos said:
So... are we talking about a PS4 level in undocked mode? Would it be like a PS4 Pro in docked mode? Why are you stating that we are in Series S territory? Because it's similar to a PS4 Pro in terms of power?
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Bloomberg mentioned "PS4 Pro/XBox One X" docked performance at the time because little or nothing was known about XBox Series S, but it's actually more than that because architecturual evolution, RT, DLSS and the A78 Class CPU would have it smoking rings around PS4 Pro/XBox One X, which are still bottlenecked by their Jaguar-derivative processors, and had nothing built for them exclusively. Those things have it closer to XSS, and closer to PS5 than most people anticipated. The Nvidia leaks show that the GPU eclipses the XSS's one by 20% before clock speed, RT and DLSS (1536 Cores VS the XSS's 1280), and it has 2/3 the number of the PS5's 2304 (BTW, 2/3 is the same ratio for XB1/PS4 (768 vs 1152), and the real world difference was, ultimately, not much to developers).

But further still, if DLSS works as understood, Nintendo can start from a lower native resolution (480p, 540p, 720p) and use DLSS to boost the resolution to 720p, 900p, 1080p, 1440p, or 4K, then boost the frame rate where it may be needed. Much is made of the other platforms having native 4K, etc., but cosmetic 1080p, 1440p, etc. is a trade-off most people would make for portability, extended battery life, and having more games on their preferred platform. This trade-off also means that the bandwidth, while very important, doesn't need to be as high as the other platforms, as game file sizes, assets, etc. could be smaller, and that could increase the possibility of more full games on carts. It appears there is more room for manoeuvre with Codename Drake than on XSS, and I would suggest that these potentially disruptive elements are the most exciting prospects.
 
Even assuming there's a sizeable amount of switches in stock right now, why would nintendo be worried about announcing new hardware this year if:
  • they already got the current gen products on the hands of retailers, it's now their duty to sell out the stock, not nintendo's
  • they already proved the switch as a concept by having it (most likely) outsell the PS4 by the end of the year (within 2-3 years less than sony's console no less)

I know nintendo works directly with retailers but as far as I know, they sell them their hardware and from that point and forward, whether or not it will sell is the retailer's problem, not nintendo's.
If the switch was failing to meet demand like the WiiU did then retailers not only would have a hard time getting the current stock out, but also planning on re-stocking for a product that doesn't sell.

We all here are assuming nintendo will markup this new console higher than the OLED, so price cut or not, I believe the remaining switch stock will (eventually) sell.
 
Thugstas said:
Take a cold shower 😉 everything is possible and some things seemed to be similar to what IN SIDE R heard !
Switch power 4K is on the way
Click to expand...
I think I'm beyond cold shower now brother. This will be me for the whole of September until the direct airs. Anticipation is real.

looking-wrestling.gif
 
niconiconick64 said:
I know nintendo works directly with retailers but as far as I know, they sell them their hardware and from that point and forward, whether or not it will sell is the retailer's problem, not nintendo's.
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Retailers have price protection measures in NA and most of Europe, this means that if they struggle to sell consoles they might force Nintendo to buy back stock (this happened in Europe with the Wii U) or just force Nintendo to subsidize the lost they might take by having to discount the console to be able to get it out
 
Angel Whispers said:
Bloomberg mentioned "PS4 Pro/XBox One X" docked performance at the time because little or nothing was known about XBox Series S, but it's actually more than that because architecturual evolution, RT, DLSS and the A78 Class CPU would have it smoking rings around PS4 Pro/XBox One X, which are still bottlenecked by their Jaguar-derivative processors, and had nothing built for them exclusively.
Click to expand...
Bloomberg never said anything about the DLSS model*'s performance being comparable to PlayStation 4 Pro or Xbox One X when in TV mode. What Bloomberg said is that the DLSS model* is capable of outputting 4K graphics when connected to the TV.

* → a tentative name that I use
 
Blue Monty said:
Retailers have price protection measures in NA and most of Europe, this means that if they struggle to sell consoles they might force Nintendo to buy back stock (this happened in Europe with the Wii U) or just force Nintendo to subsidize the lost they might take by having to discount the console to be able to get it out
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How exactly does that work if the console's still selling but not meeting the retailer's expectation of how fast they want the stock to sell out?
Does law still side against nintendo? or do they only step in if the retailers manage to prove that they have an abundant amount of stock that's taking way too long to sell?
 
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Skittzo said:
Nothing about what we have heard or can deduce about this device suggests they'll be treating it as a new generation. Expect the marketing to make it look more like a premium upgrade, at least at first.
Click to expand...
I look at facts like
1) They've definitely created an entirely new generation of hardware
and
2) I don't think everyone at Nintendo are wasteful morons
and deduce that they're probably planning to use it as a new generation, at least with what that means in a modern PS5/Series sense rather than the older much more clean cut.
Angel Whispers said:
This trade-off also means that the bandwidth, while very important, doesn't need to be as high as the other platforms, as game file sizes, assets, etc. could be smaller, and that could increase the possibility of more full games on carts.
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That's just "If we use lower quality assets, they'll take less space", not anything specifically advantageous with DLSS.
 
JoshuaJSlone said:
I look at facts like
1) They've definitely created an entirely new generation of hardware
and
2) I don't think everyone at Nintendo are wasteful morons
and deduce that they're probably planning to use it as a new generation, at least with what that means in a modern PS5/Series sense rather than the older much more clean cut.

That's just "If we use lower quality assets, they'll take less space", not anything specifically advantageous with DLSS.
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Lower quality assets are smaller in their nature. I didn't say anywhere that this was a DLSS-specific advantage. The point there was rather that DLSS would enable the system to increase the image quality and performance while processing information in a more bite-sized way, without demanding lots more space, or eating up more resources from the CPU or GPU. That's the "disruptive" element. In turn, it means that developers might design with it in mind, and the side effects of that approach would mean "more full games on cart", etc. It isn't a specific advantage, but a technology which, if used as understood, can present multiple benefits across the board. It isn't a unicorn, but it means there can be more room left in the tank for extra performance. The disruptive elements also mean that we can start to think about how it can potentially change SoC design and the way games are developed, how much power one REALLY needs, where it is needed, how we can be more efficient, etc..
 
Skittzo said:
Nothing about what we have heard or can deduce about this device suggests they'll be treating it as a new generation. Expect the marketing to make it look more like a premium upgrade, at least at first.
Click to expand...
I don't understand how anyone could have the slightest idea about that. We haven't a clue how it's going to be marketed AFAIK.
 
Armoured_Bear said:
I don't understand how anyone could have the slightest idea about that. We haven't a clue how it's going to be marketed AFAIK.
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our only hint is the fact that Splatoon 3 is out in a couple weeks, but I've seen it argued that it acts as a cross-generational anchor that could smooth out the line between Switch 1 and Switch 2

I for one would be very disappointed with a Switch 2 before holiday 2024
 
k samedi said:
So if there is a new Switch coming how likely is it that this will be revealed in September? I think they will want to handle a next gen version differently and announce it earlier than a typical revision.
Click to expand...

Hardly they will announce it this year if launch is also not this year. Personally don't expecting announcement or launch this year.

At this point I think they will market it like next gen Switch hardware but without clean break to current Switch.
 
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Armoured_Bear said:
I don't understand how anyone could have the slightest idea about that. We haven't a clue how it's going to be marketed AFAIK.
Click to expand...
Well it's only ever been rumored as a receive m revision. Even as recently as a couple months ago I believe Nate said he had heard that it will be treated like a revision.

Also if this is launching in March 2023 and it's a typical next gen console Nintendo would've absolutely said something about it already, even if it was just referring to with a code name.
 
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