It shouldn't be offensive, but, no offense on my part, "because Nintendo" is a stupid argument. It's like saying "because yes"
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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)
- Thread starter Dakhil
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Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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I had a dream featuring AV1, so I sure hope so.
TechnicalTip6578
Tektite
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P sure PS4 & XONE don't have "insufficient RAM" but ok
have you ever seen how switch ports were like??? devs were able to compress big games into 10-30gb ones (and sometimes 40 & above) plus you can use SD cards and such
you guys are pessimistic if you think this kind of specs wouldn't work especially it has a 120hz screen
SoldierDelta
Designated Xenoblade Loremaster
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What's funny to me is that it's a statement about "track record" that means so little because so much has changed since 2015. Yes, track record is a useful way to rate what will happen in the future, but only when the company isn't in a state of rapid change.
If someone was to predict what Activision's new Call of Duty title will have with its monetisation and someone said "It'll be awful because Activision", it'd be unhelpful because ABK has been bought out and lost it's
MadMarvainy
Moblin
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It's not, nor should it be imo. It's simply a terrible opinion that doesn't hold any water but I don't think it's report worthy. I just find usually these individuals aren't worth having any sort of lengthy conversation with. There is basically 0 depth in saying "because Nintendo," because it's all the same stuff we've heard before.
People who think Nintendo cheaps out on everything do not understand the console business or why Nintendo can release flop consoles and still end up closing down fewer studios than Sony and MS and retain more employees than both console manufactures. They try to be as practical and efficient as possible with every decision they make and release good games regardless of those decisions.
There was a thread on Era asking can Nintendo even make AAA games like GoW or BG3, obvious bait thread, and it was pretty clear to me that some people just have brainrot when discussing certain things about Nintendo. They're not some flawless company, but that's like me asking why Sony and MS haven't released a Pokemon clone yet. Or why don't they just join or rejoin the handheld market? We know why; it's simply just not efficient or practical to their goals.
fguzramm
Cappy
Honest question. Would 8 gb be good for you? Sure, the PS4 had 8gb of ram....but that was 10 years ago. I know Nintendo always uses old tech and specs to save cost, but I gotta say it sounds a bit disappointing to me. Unless it's some kind of cutting edge ram like DDR6 or something (which I doubt). I trust Nintendo to do miracles with their own hardware, but it worries me that third parties will not be able to bring their games to this new console if it's stuck with specs from 10 years ago :/ I really thought the minimum we would expect for this new console was 16 gb. 8 (if true) is kind of shocking.
ziggyrivers
thunder
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I think Switch 2 will launch with 128gb or 256. Just enough to download a game without the need of a SD Card. It’d infuriate consumers if they bought a console, and immediately after buying it, they can’t play a game they want to download because there’s not enough maybe.
SoldierDelta
Designated Xenoblade Loremaster
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Agreed, especially in the era where games take 500gb sometimes. Kinda praying that Nintendo enforces compression on the device, but we'll see.
maniacmaison
Art bitch
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128 gb is really the lowest they can go for, right? 64 gb would be very weird. With the original Switch you could install two Breath of the Wild tier games (14gb) and then have some space for a couple of indies. With this one they should at least try to replicate that, and considering game sizes will grow quite a bit because of potential 4K textures and what not, 64 gb would fall very very short.
monkeygotyou
Octorok
What kind of single game is taking 500gb??
AceBandage
WUST Member
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Call of Duty
TechnicalTip6578
Tektite
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honestly it's fine and anyone saying otherwise is expecting too much from nintendo
once again we need to remember what devs were able to achieve on switch 1, so it shouldn't be that troubling on switch 2
monkeygotyou
Octorok
RoyalGoldenFES
Tektite
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Off-topicish, is there anything truly “because Nintendo” about the Switch 1’s launch hardware? All I can think of was the 32 GB of hard drive space and maybe the 4 GB of RAM.
AceBandage
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Not fully but it's well over 200.Its not seriously at 500 now right?
right?
I think ARK is over 400 now.
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
I personally don't even consider those 'because Nintendo' (ick) specs. 32 GB was enough to hold BotW and some smaller titles and SD cards are ubiquitous so I never found it to be an issue. 4 GB of RAM is twice the Wii U, ~8 times the Xbox 360 and ~16 times the PS3 (imperfect comparison due to RAM speeds and types but it's still more). They could have crammed more of both into the Switch but I find it well balanced to hit that $300 price point.
Since they expanded storage to 64 GB on the OLED model anyway I'd expect at least 128 GB. People are going to look at the $400 price tag and have a different set of expectations.
Pretty much just the storage but even that is sufficient to at least fit most games back then and flash storage is way more expensive than hard drive storage at the time. 4gb doesn't sound bad at all when 360 only have like half a gig of ram and PS3 even less I believed. Modern development practices make 4gb insufficient but 8 times more ram for a console around 3 times stronger seems reasonable.
Goodtwin
Like Like
128GB would be very shortsighted. It might be "enough" at the time of launch, but we will be seeing games north of 128GB become very common in the coming years. I see 256GB as being the minimum that makes sense for the duration of the SNG generation and 512GB would be the best decision for the long term. Nintendo is selling nearly 50% of all its software digitally now. The increased margins for digital games more than offsets some loss of margin on the hardware. By having adequate internal storage, if that entices your average consumer to purchase even a few more games digitally, Nintendo will be money ahead. I think 256GB is the most likely for launch and there will be a mid gen refresh that takes it to 512GB.
TechnicalTip6578
Tektite
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you guys are worrying too much to be honest, 64gb of storage & 8gb ram are servicable enough
third parties will find a way to make their games work there, otherwise they'll go with the cloud route instead which isn't really a bad thing honestly
third parties will find a way to make their games work there, otherwise they'll go with the cloud route instead which isn't really a bad thing honestly
Dark Cloud
Warpstar Knight
Cloud is garbage so yeah it’s not a good thing honestly
TechnicalTip6578
Tektite
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well if nintendo implements good wifi chip within switch 2, maybe cloud gaming will be good on switch 2
much better alternative than native ports even
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I think 128 GB is the most realistic scenario. It's "big enough" for one, maybe two bigger games, it's small enough to be cheap enough for Nintendo.
And if they're using a non-exotic "self-made" expandable storage (like the Vita), they're going to get out just fine.
The read/write speed might more important this time.
Yeah, i like Squall and Terra more, too.
And if they're using a non-exotic "self-made" expandable storage (like the Vita), they're going to get out just fine.
The read/write speed might more important this time.
Yeah, i like Squall and Terra more, too.
TechnicalTip6578
Tektite
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anyways i guess we're not in agreement because "meh nintendo would never do that!" despite the fact that they always pick the cheap options and they know how to handle these kinds of limitations
i don't really care anymore with what people say anyways, i'm on team 64gb storage, 8gb ram & 120hz screen and i'd gladly accept it
i don't really care anymore with what people say anyways, i'm on team 64gb storage, 8gb ram & 120hz screen and i'd gladly accept it
MilkyChance
Cappy
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You'd be surprise that there are still laptops being sold that has 64 GB of storage space with 4 GB of RAM still running on a Celeron at a terrible price up to $200. Only difference is that they're terrible laptops that is meant for streaming, but not many do figure that out. 64 GB is too low now, and the new minimum standard is 128 GB. I still hope for more than 8 GB or RAM and at least 128 GB, 1 TB SD cards are getting cheap
nah, I don't think third parties would "deal". they would have been the fire first to tell Nintendo that it's too little. not to mention the lack of availability back when the T239 was planned out.
as for cloud, I've still yet to see anyone show that it's a viable business on Switch. there hasn't been a cloud game release in a good long while, and cloud games don't show up on any chart
as for cloud, I've still yet to see anyone show that it's a viable business on Switch. there hasn't been a cloud game release in a good long while, and cloud games don't show up on any chart
TechnicalTip6578
Tektite
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eh nintendo & other companies are gonna do fine with just 8gb ram & 64gb storage
people are worrying too much and forgot what nintendo/other companies were able to achieve on the switch
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64 GB would be frankly pathetic. 128GB memory bits cannot possibly be so expensive they’d cheap out.
8 GB RAM is simply not enough. The switch almost shipped with 2 until someone (I think it was Capcom?) basically demanded 4. 8 is what I’d call “bare minimum” for 2024 and if they want this hardware to last, throwing an extra 4 GB on top to get to 12 will help them heaps in the long run.
“Cloud route isn’t a bad thing” except it is? You never see Switch cloud games anywhere near the best seller lists. They’re a bandaid solution, not a permanent, sustainable way to play games.
pelusilla6
Bob-omb
no one is worried because very few people here even believe they will go with 8GB of ram. it doesn't fit what they're building or with current paradigms. if you're not convinced, then so be it. but Nintendo makes balanced systems and it will show with Drake's ram allocation
64GB, you just have to look at PS4 games to know why that's unlikely
TechnicalTip6578
Tektite
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they need to make the console as cheap as possible, both when it comes to sale (which is obviously 400 bucks) & the specs (the cheapest storage & ram possible) that's the thing you guys fail to understand
kvetcha
hoopy frood
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yes, we're definitely the ones failing to understand
korok
Moblin
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You are on team 64gb storage, 8gb ram & 120hz screen because you just saw an article about the expectations no based on real info of a random analyst with way less knowledge in the subject than this forum?
It's the strangest hill to die on you could choose, but it's fine I guess.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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Comparing PC, or even Xbox Series X file sizes to NG Switch storage capacity isn't going to give us an accurate picture. Developers can sacrifice asset quality to shrink their games, they can work to reuse more assets in the game rather than everything being wholly bespoke. On top of the FDE or other "old fashioned" compression techniques. Unlike PC you also don't need multiple copies depending on user settings. Just what you absolutely need for Switch.
If the system has 128GB (which I doubt, but still), devs will almost certainly make sure that any of their games on the system come in under 110GB. Considering that Forza Horizon 5 and Microsoft Flight Simulator (offline) can hover around that size, while one of the big concerns is COD, which already has asset streaming to reduce file size.
A simulacrum of the entire world and dozens of airports can exist in 100GB, thanks to Flight Simulator, I doubt it's a considerable barrier for any given game.
If the system has 128GB (which I doubt, but still), devs will almost certainly make sure that any of their games on the system come in under 110GB. Considering that Forza Horizon 5 and Microsoft Flight Simulator (offline) can hover around that size, while one of the big concerns is COD, which already has asset streaming to reduce file size.
A simulacrum of the entire world and dozens of airports can exist in 100GB, thanks to Flight Simulator, I doubt it's a considerable barrier for any given game.
TechnicalTip6578
Tektite
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why yes, you are correct!
it's not like games like doom, witcher 3, nier, dying light & no man's sky were able to get into switch with downgrades!
who would ever think that, am i right?
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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RAM prices and UFS storage are not hugely expensive compared to SOCs...
And on 4nm, T239's wholesale price is under $40 (Complications and overhead involved, yeah, I mean the price of the wafer and processing divided by the number of T239 per wafer.)
There's plenty of space in the budget at 400$ for better controllers, a bigger screen, and plenty of storage and memory.
TechnicalTip6578
Tektite
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still they need to make the console as cheap as possible to sell it at an acceptable price, which is again 400 dollars
Dark Cloud
Warpstar Knight
Wow you sure got us. We fail to understand unlike the almighty you.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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Which again, is a perfectly fine budget to be buying T239, 12-16GB of RAM and 256GB of UFS storage.
Darknut85
#TeamRemake
128GB is minimum for storage, 12GB is minimum for ram. If Nintendo want the system to get support into the 10th console generation they better don‘t make a system with 8GB RAM and 64GB Storage (120hz wouldn‘t really make sense at all for a 8GB system, the framerate of most third party titles would barely surpass 30fps). The leak comes from a questionable source and the specs are unrealistic. It‘s not even worth discussing it.
fguzramm
Cappy
Do you guys think $400 is a good price for the console assuming the specs rumors are true? I feel like the switch price (300) vs the Xbox or PS5 (500) was more justifiable since the switch is very old hardware. But if these rumors are true....the new console would still be like 10 years old in comparison to the PS5 and XSX .....and only 100 dollars less?
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Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
According to the gigaleak Nintendo had decided on 4GB since 2015. I think more likely they had fielded suggestions from developers early in the process and Capcom was explicit about wanting at least 4GB.
So I would expect the same thing here - Nintendo requesting feedback from third party devs and weighing what an appropriate amount would be. And I assume devs want more than base last gen level of RAM.
Darknut85
#TeamRemake
If it was so underpowered they could sell it for 350$ with a good margin.
Thraktor
"[✄]. [✄]. [✄]. [✄]." -Microsoft
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Does "because Nintendo" mean choosing pretty good components relative to the tech they have available to them? Because RAM and storage on Switch were pretty decent for the time. On the storage side, they were using flash memory at a time when Sony and MS were using mechanical hard drives that cost maybe 20x less per GB, so of course they weren't going to be anywhere close on storage capacity, but comparing to other devices using embedded flash (phones) 32GB was pretty respectable. Doubly so with the RAM, where 4GB was above average for the time.
This actually reminds me that, as we're now in 2024, I can update my old smartphone spec analysis to include a full set of 2023 data. I'll follow up with this shortly.
TechnicalTip6578
Tektite
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well considering how greedy nintendo is, they'd most likely choose to sell it for 400 instead
Dark Cloud
Warpstar Knight
We understand Nintendo. None of us are new to Nintendo. We know their history. We heard the story of Capcom asking for more RAM with Switch. It showed a willingness from Nintendo to work with their third party friends. The same would happen here because what Nintendo needs is not necessarily what everyone else needs.
They’re going to make it work at a good price. Expectations are already at $400. If we want to talk about “cheap Nintendo” then we should say they’ll try to make a $300 or $350 product.
They’re going to make it work at a good price. Expectations are already at $400. If we want to talk about “cheap Nintendo” then we should say they’ll try to make a $300 or $350 product.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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What. $400 is absolutely the right choice, for who knows how many reasons.
The new console would not "still be like 10 years old in comparison"?
It's literally generationally superior?
It's at lower clock speeds - of course, it's a handheld, but the technology is at least a year or two ahead of the competition, just, you know, a portable?
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LuigiBlood
Mage Robot
Whatever, I'll take the bait:
Uh, third parties will definitely not put their biggest games (literally see the Switch as it is on its entirety) and the cloud route is uh, very questionable on Switch. I don't think those versions ever made a lot of money. You're also very much dismissing the point of the Switch, which is being also portable... which also means the ability to be used offline, because the console has to be designed with the fact that Internet is not permanent.
Uh if Nintendo really just cared about the cheapest options on every turn the Switch 1 would have been a 3DS successor with TV output with terrible GPU in 2015 and they would be unironically doomed. The Switch 1, and even as it is in 2017, was not the cheapest thing lol
Also: What's the point of a forum if you don't wanna discuss and at least listen. Like, you're just making a fool out of yourself.
Here's one thing about the because Nintendo thing that imo I would use even during the Switch:
The Switch is oddly limited in certain features. The folder system sucks, NSO apps does not have button remapping, online is now paid and still unstable, eShop lags. The hardware was fine, it's just showing its age and has been because third parties just feel better working for more powerful systems.
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