Jake
Cappy
They went cheap with the joy-cons that’s for sure. How else do you explain the MANY cases of drift happening over the past 7 years?
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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)
- Thread starter Dakhil
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One must have their tongue firmly planted in their cheek to use it. Bonus points if you use it to describe Microsoft or Sony though.
Ars2439
Verdant Lightning
I would unironically prefer circle pads to the sticks the joycons have. They might be clicky and mushy, but so are joycon sticks, so that's an equal trade off. You might have to sacrifice two inputs which could be replaced by back buttons, but in return you could pocket them without feeling like the joysticks are about to snap off. Those shoulders are an abomination though.Imagine if they kept the Circle Pads.
Imagine.
Small pikmins is redundant and unnecessarily pluralized. The plural for pikmin is pikmin.
HerrNalle
unbearable grizzco manager
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- he/him, they/them
Yeah I am much looking forward to the day gamers nexus does a plus one hour video tearing this thing apart!
But most of all I am looking forward to the unveiling so we can stop the spiraling doom n gloom, even if it HAS been very funny to read through.
Kartina
theprocessbroke
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Of course when we finally get the unveiling we can start a new spiraling of doom n gloom on how the console is doa and nintendo is going 4th party
SoldierDelta
Designated Xenoblade Loremaster
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Profile picture matches comment. Old man sure is yelling.
NGL, when it releases, I'll just outright forget it's specs because it more counts for what it's being used for rather than what the specs are. I'm mainly interested in the specs because of the potential, not the end result/potential disappoiments.
SoldierDelta
Designated Xenoblade Loremaster
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Profile picture matches comment. Old man sure is yelling.
NGL, when it releases, I'll just outright forget it's specs because it more counts for what it's being used for rather than what the specs are. I'm mainly interested in the specs because of the potential, not the end result/potential disappoiments.
It's a custom part so it's probably not cheap and it couldn't have the years of real world testing of regular joystick part. Factory testing can only do so much compared to millions of people using it days in days out in much less sterile environments.
I use it in slack at work, and I have it as an emoji. I adopted it during the Cafe thread two forums ago.
I’m sorry but every time VR comes up I have to post. Banking big IPs on “ 15 minute experiences” seems so dumb to me. Most people can’t even play VR given their age or having adequate room. Or even physical disabilities? If Nintendo puts all their chips on VR I can see a lot of fans (including me) being upset. Sorry for the rant!
It doesn't have to be the be all, end all feature, it would just be bringing something tangibly better than Labo VR, which really if you look at it, you can see Nintendo's creative juices were overflowing with all the content they put into that game because they were trying out lots of new things.
15 minutes with Mario Kart in VR can "sell" the system as something different and new from the existing Switch. I think people will go gaga over that.
The fact is there is still a wide open market chasm here because no one has really succeeded that well making an affordable at home VR solution that people can easily try. The Quest headsets are the closest thing to that but their sales are still a fraction of what the Switch can do and still require someone to put down hundreds of dollars strictly for a VR experience. With Switch 2, you'd get everything a Switch 2 does but which can also "switch" (aha) into VR mode too if they went this route. The marketing pretty much writes itself ("Switch into a new way to play").
It may just be basically Labo VR with a plastic headset instead but with a 1080p display + 90-120 Hz you would have visuals comparable to a PS4 VR, which is still good enough to wow regular people. And that would all fit Nintendo's MO of taking past ideas that were maybe a bit raw and revisiting them some years later with better tech.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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I mean, the value proposition next to Xbox Series X and PS5 is, it's cheaper than either of them by 50-150, it's still targeting 4K, and it's also a powerful handheld, playing a lot of the sane games.
Next to Xbox Series S, you jump up from an advertised 1440p to an advertised 4K, you get physical media compatibility, and obviously, a handheld.
Assuming it ends up at that 400$ price, it's going to be a pretty good value and an easy decision for anyone not in an existing ecosystem. Much like how there was a period PS4 was "the default system" to buy, or then the Switch, the Switch 2 should fall into the category of "best value in the eyes of consumers".
T239 seems to support this, on 4nm it's tiny and really quite affordable wholesale while providing an up to day featureset and excellent upscaling capabilities. It is good value.
This is ignoring the ecosystem effect of people moving from Switch to Switch 2 or the people swayed by the fact there's two controllers in the box: a minor detail for "hardcore" gamers bhr a considerable value for parents.
AceBandage
WUST Member
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It's actually a CRT screen so its 24hz
yusufied
Tektite
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The teardowns are going to be cool. Not super relevant right now but I bet they're going to have a more advanced cooling system in the next system compared to the one being used now. Nothing too crazy like liquid cooling though.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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Joy-Con had design challenges we know now were unsurmountable for the price point. They have nearly all the same technology as a full sized controller, plus extra, plus a pretty big battery, in a package smaller than a flip phone, all while having to be sturdy enough to hold the weight of what was then Nintendo's heaviest handheld ever.
Nintendo registers a new patent for VR device setup | LevelUp
Is this Virtual Boy 2.0?
www.levelup.com
Nintendo patented this VR setup in late 2022.
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PS4 and Xbox don't have insufficient RAM for being more than a decade old, but the new system isn't part of that generation and will need to run newer games. And tech has evolved and games now simply need more. It's well documented that developers are frustrated and having a hard time working with the 8GB of RAM available with the Series S, to the point that Microsoft sent out an update that allows them to use a bit of the extra RAM that's reserved for the OS. If Switch 2 ships with only 8, then OS reserves eat into that, it'll literally have less RAM available to devs than even the lowest-spec offering from the competition. The three-year-old competition. I don't think it's inaccurate to call that "insufficient."
Yep, exactly! And the delay in even pulling up the Home menu.
Not confirmed by, like, Nintendo, but the massive Nvidia leak from years ago show it has hardware for running DLSS and raytracing both. So pretty much a lock unless Nintendo and Nvidia are building hardware into the chip that they don't plan to use, which is extremely unlikely.
hell yeah, I love the cinema look
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Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
All three console makers source ALPS joysticks which are rated for a certain lifespan based on potentiometer usage, joy-con are more prone to this because of their size. Stick drift happens across all three platforms.
Is it the cheapest route if they sourced joysticks from the same manufacturer as the other two? I doubt hall effect sticks were readily available. It is definitely a cost saving measure to source from this specific manufacturer, and accept the lower tolerance, but that's just how a console is designed, to keep the controllers at a reasonable-ish $80 and the console itself at $300. The joy-con already have a lot of engineering packed into them considering their size and the amount of R&D expended to design them was certainly not cheap.
Anyways ... when you said 'the cheap route' I assumed you meant the device in general and not just the controllers. Even if Nintendo got a deal from Nvidia for the Tegra X1, it was still one of the top of the line mobile chips available for their particular pricepoint.
The Deck runs it at 720p 30 FPS at high settings with zero frame issues and that's without any upscaling. I'm going to set my expectations just a little higher.
You're not wrong that Mario Kart VR would be a hell of a thing. I just don't know that it would be the big system seller.
I think Nintendo has been historically nervous about people strapping a screen to their heads, but at the same time, it's become more acceptable with all the VR headsets out there. Maybe they'll go for it.
The Switch was not outdated tech, the Tegra X1 was near the top of the mountain for mobile chips when it released, not dissimilar to the PS5/XSX chips relative to when they released. Also probably have to factor in Nintendo was almost certainly trying to make holiday 2016, they just couldn't pull it off because the games weren't ready and had to delay a couple of months.
AceBandage
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Mario Kart VR, AKA: The Vominator
Sol
Moblin
It's not just stick-drift. The actual design and overall quality of the Joy-Cons are just bad. The analog sticks are terrible, the buttons are terrible, and the overall ergonomics are terrible.
They really need a top to bottom redesign of the Joy-Cons for the Switch 2.
navierStokes
Octorok
- Node Process
- RAM
- Memory bandwidth
.I think this should be the last time for a while for me to track discussion until something comes downstream through the ether or is announced;
It's been interesting with the lurking and short discussion I've been able to participate in
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Langstonboy
Yes
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Yeah there really wasn’t anything before the switch that was really a true console on the go, it was the most powerful portable gaming the device at the time other than the gpd win 1, and that thing sucked.
There already is Mario Kart VR in arcades that Nintendo/Namco have at select locations based on the Mario Kart Arcade game ... the fact is most impressions of it from people are that it's amazing. People rave about it.
There are even modded versions of past Mario Kart games that have had VR modes added in emulators, but people even seem to think that is great and this is not even an official game
Dark Cloud
Warpstar Knight
Can’t Nintendo just put a head strap into every Switch 2 box so they can try VR?
omniryu
Like Like
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I mean there's a handful of people who even understand what the T239 is. Everyone assumptions is "because Nintendo".
We have to be acknowledged that the Wii, Wii U, and the handhelds left a strong impression on the core gamer audience (and the analyst) that Nintendo will always cheap out on specs. Do the article needs source? Of course, but with the "because Nintendo" stereotype? Of course people will believe it.
AceBandage
WUST Member
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This makes me nauseous just watching.
The best mobile chip for 2016 was maybe the Apple A9X at that point and that was about par with the Tegra X1 and the Apple A9X was being sold basically only in the $700 iPad Pro model at the time.
unkindlynice
Tektite
Why would Nintendo add VR as a main marketing aspect for a limited set of games? Switch 2 will be it runs games better and has a wider library. If Nintendo ever do VR in a big way it will be safely away from Switch 2 as a separate product entirely.
Dark Cloud
Warpstar Knight
Because you allow the greatest amount of people to give it a try by adding it into every Switch 2 box?
To each their own, I've seen like 6-7 impressions of Mario Kart Arcade VR and pretty much every one of those from people who actually played it themselves is that it was a fantastic experience. Nintendo has a winning concept here, VR is honestly the biggest gaming frontier since 3D graphics, it's time Nintendo enters the party and brings their design POV to show other developers a thing or two, like Super Mario 64 did for 3D.
Earendil
Rattata
THAT'S where I know you from. lol
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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It's anything but that simple or cheap.
omniryu
Like Like
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Well, how many people visit this thread? We can't get mad if we are limited to a few spots on the internet.
And that's what I was trying to say last time. If the INDY was a weaker system them the NX or the Switch we have now. It shows Nintendo doesn't take the cheapest route.
It should shows that Nintendo is done with their outdated philosophy.
Exactly. The best VR headset is not the one with the best specs. The best VR headset is the VR headset people will actually try to use.
Not enough people want to pay $300+ for a VR headset on its own.
A Labo style setup that uses the Switch 2 screen could be done for an affordable, impulse buy price, like $99.99 bundled with a VR experience game (hellooooo Pilotwings VR) and then you can use it with Mario Kart, Metroid Prime 4, maybe a 3D Mario game, etc. etc. etc.
Dark Cloud
Warpstar Knight
I didn’t say it was cheap. It was just a thought. I’m not expecting it, but if it’s something wanted to try at some point this is how you’d do it to grow the VR market. You don’t want it to be a side thing unless you don’t care to grow the market.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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The conclusions and discussions in this thread are almost entirely based on public data. An analyst failing to do the research and publishing nonsense is absolutely condemnable. Moreover, most people are just laughing at and disregarding it, not being mad.
unkindlynice
Tektite
I’ve just explained my views on costing. You don’t add costs or marketing concepts you need to explain for ‘people to try’.
Nintendo is not going to make the mistake of a new console being confused with a peripheral. The primary marketing of Switch 2 will be it runs existing games better and has an expanded library as a result.
Switch 2 will not get muddled with VR.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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As an accessory it would still be a side thing, a thing with an extraordinary amount of research and development requirements. Eating the cost of that and the cost of just throwing it in a very box as a free accessory doesn't make much sense at all. They can't "just" throw them in every box. 400$ is right for a handheld, dock and controllers, but like, it doesn't have the wiggle room to go throwing in precision manufactured lenses.
Catsylvania
Koopa
I can’t speak for anyone else, but I visit this thread frequently, usually daily. I don’t understand half of the technical stuff, and I don’t know what’s going on, but it sure feels good to be part of something.
TomNookYankees
Koopa
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How good is the grip on those circle pads (for comparison the 3DS circle pad was very prone to slipping), how precise are they, and how resilient are they against drifting?
it’s not even just the drift that I take issue with when it comes to the joycon sticks. Those analog sticks on the joycons are just horrendous overall. They feel imprecise even without the drift and I’ve noticed any time I just to use them for an FPS they have VERY notable input lag.
Dimensio
Tektite
My thoughts on the Storage/Ram thing:
64GB Is laughable, not even worth considering
128GB Is the minimum they can go
256GB Is decent enough and probably what they will go with
512GB Would be ideal but I seriously doubt it unless there's deluxe SKU
8GB Ram would be quite bad and almost certainly is not going to happen, like 90-95% sure
12GB Is pretty good and is the most likely to happen by far
16GB Would be fantastic and has decent chance of happening
64GB Is laughable, not even worth considering
128GB Is the minimum they can go
256GB Is decent enough and probably what they will go with
512GB Would be ideal but I seriously doubt it unless there's deluxe SKU
8GB Ram would be quite bad and almost certainly is not going to happen, like 90-95% sure
12GB Is pretty good and is the most likely to happen by far
16GB Would be fantastic and has decent chance of happening
"Same types of games with bettererer graphics" hasn't always worked that great for Nintendo. Even with the Super NES, the system initially had slower than expected sales in the US because "it's your NES but bettererr graphics!" wasn't a great sales tool.
We know Nintendo. There is going to be a "new" gameplay gimmick whether some people will stomp their feet about it or not.
Beyond that I think Nintendo has an itch to show things in VR from a creative perspective, imagine 3D gaming never got Mario 64 or Zelda: OoT as a template which popularized things like Z-targeting and a proper camera system to many other devs. Nintendo is needed in the VR space, they can probably show the development community a thing or two just because they approach game design in a different way from almost any other developer. It's a new frontier in gaming and still very raw and under developed.
SoldierDelta
Designated Xenoblade Loremaster
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What being a decade behind in terms of console hardware does to a mfer.
I do want to give credit that the Switch was an upgrade from the Wii U in terms of impressive hardware, managing to squeeze a PS3-like hardware power into a tablet.
The issue is that this hardware is only really impressive for people in the context of "Oh wow, LA Noire in my hands!!" So not everyone considers Nintendo to be a graphical or technological powerhouse. The lack of real upgrade is raw power from GC to Wii and then Wii U to Switch really did harm perception for a lot of "hardcore" gamers. Hence why "because Nintendo" came to be.
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