Lancelot
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Damn, that's insane for a cut down 7800 GTX in PS3's case. Like really insane, not even the last of Sony's games utilized PBR on last, last gen.
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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)
- Thread starter Dakhil
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Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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Wait, what does "last gen" mean in this context? Last gen right now is PS4. I know we're used to calling XSX/SS and PS5 "NEXT GEN", but it's been three years, aren't they current gen by now?
Three years into the GameCube's life cycle, Nintendo DS launched.
Lancelot
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Last gen relative to PS4/Xbox One, afaik. PBR was fully standard during last gen but not during last gen, PS3/360.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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This is getting out of hand. Maybe we should use numbers, Gen9 for now, Gen8 for last, Gen7 for last.
TomNookYankees
Koopa
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I'm not some edgy 2000s teenager telling you "nintendo sux cuz they're kiddie games". I'm a guy who is going to buy the Switch 2 as soon as it comes out stating the obvious fact that Nintendo is going to want to get as many big multi-million selling third party titles as they can for their hardware and that its absurd to think it wouldnt be a big deal if nintendo's upcoming console missed out on the sequel to the second best selling video game of all time.easy, I won't call names if you don't
I think gta is juvenile, stealing cars and looking up to gangsters and such... that's about as kiddy as it gets
...so maybe you're right?
nah because that's more complicated when you have to ask what gen Nintendo is in because they don't follow the same cadence as Sony or MS
current gen: systems that are out now
last gen: prior versions of those systems
next gen: systems after what's out now
simple
It's less of a choice and more of an outcome. Most tasks naturally fall to one or the other, but some can be shifted if they prove to be a bottleneck.
The numbers are not universally agreed upon and just broadly don't work super well. It's best to just be explicit about which systems you're referring to.
Peoples forget that Nintendo is taking a 30% cut on every digital sales, thinking they won't attempt to make a move to talk to Take-Two about GTA6 sounds insane to me.
lemonfresh
#Team2024
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Guys if it has low ram we could just download more
Angel Whispers
Follow me at @angelpagecdlmhq
I know it’s a different device… BUT I don’t think it’s at all unreasonable to say that a tweet, written by an official account after tape-out, which mentions low-powered consoles is a valid receipt, one worth considering. It is the closest thing we have that isn’t a rumour mill, and I would say it speaks to intention, because they could’ve showed literally any of their other products. If you read further between the lines, you see that the less powerful SoC needs more than 12GB RAM, and it isn’t to perform RT or DLSS. So, it’s a case of reasonable deduction, based on something we’ve been told from the horse’s mouth. Then trying to reconcile the idea of having a more powerful SoC, something expected to do more, BUT having less RAM to do it. None of this is a reach. There is a connection because the custom SoC has been developed alongside Orin SoCs, Ampere and Lovelace products.
Lancelot
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Wouldn't that mean equal texture quality to PS5/Series X? The GPU alone would have like 10 GB of shared VRAM available to use, definitely kinda insane.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Manakete
4x4 LPDDR5x for the thicccccc boy
They're talking about Orin in low powered consoles. It has no bearing on a semi-custom product for a customer. Nvidia doesn't even chose the ram amount, Nintendo does
Foltzie
Uncle Muji
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Someone call A Way With Words! We need an entomologist!
redmutineer75
Bob-omb
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I don't know if this in intentional, but it's etymologist. Entomology is the study of insects.
eye0h
"aggressively persue a multiplatform strategy"
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Friendliest battle ever
Gerald
Bob-omb
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AW2 Have FSR 3, btw Path Tracing without frame gen is very hard for GPUs, even for 4090
lemonfresh
#Team2024
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I'm going to be in the middle and say #team14gb
OctoSplattack
Chain Chomp
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Wait, the 12GB vs. 16GB battle has only begun now? I thought the idea that this will have 8GB of RAM died a good while ago.
lemonfresh
#Team2024
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I think it's only doomers still talking about 8gb and bringing it back lol
redmutineer75
Bob-omb
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I mostly assumed it was 12GB and saw the LPDDR5 vs. LPDDR5X debates. But who knows? Maybe they cut something with SK Hyinx and put 16GB of LPDDR5T on the thing, that'd be cool.
Angel Whispers
Follow me at @angelpagecdlmhq
Except it kinda does because if your contemporaries are using the higher amount in less powerful devices, and this specific thing has repeated itself in all of them, there are reasons for that. Developers will have games on said contemporaries. The idea that Nintendo are somehow oblivious to, or isolated from these realities is wild to me, and the idea that they can expect critical support with 25% less is even wilder than that.
What an alarmist tweet.
That said, we finally get a mesh shaders showpiece. I always figured Nintendo would leverage it, but there hasn't been any use cases for it, so this is exciting
Nintendo isn't oblivious but they're working with different parameters than those contemporaries. they don't have the same needs of a mobile phone with a bloated OS and they don't have the same needs of a system with an unbalanced as hell hardware design that consumes more power than a tablet
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Ghostsonplanets
Ghost in the Sales
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Alan Wake II really looks insane and is a showcase of a game fully built for the DX12 Ultimate featureset paradigm. I wonder if Remedy is interested into a future Switch 2 port. Would be really interesting to see how it would scale into Nintendo next machine.
lemonfresh
#Team2024
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If it's running 32fps on top pcs it's going to be like 8fps on switch 2 lol. Unless they do some black magic or something
Ghostsonplanets
Ghost in the Sales
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That's with Path Tracing and all bells and whistles enabled. Switch 2 version would be based and have more in common with the Series S version.
32FPS for a native 4K path traced game at max settings is honestly amazing
also really bad to use that as your baseline because of the aforementioned reasons
D36
#WOHOYHASAWAKENED
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Iirc, Mario RPG's buttons are based on the Super Famicom, but TTYD may be worth looking into. If we see Redrakted NG before the game comes out, we'll start to make sense of things.
D
Deleted member 887
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Ignore comparing absolute bandwidth numbers between the machines. The old AMD GPUs in the PS4 and the PS4 Pro are much more bandwidth hungry than modern GPUs. It's not apples to apples. What you actually want to look at is "bandwidth per TFLOP of compute" and "is this enough bandwidth for the GPU to stay fed."
RTX 30 GPUs all sit at 25-30 GB/s/TFLOP, and the ones at the top of that range perform more consistently than the ones at the bottom (see: shitloads of trawling through Digital Foundry benchmarks).
Consoles also share bandwidth between the CPU and the GPU, and unlike the GPU, T239 will likely use the same clock for the CPU in both modes (because game logic doesn’t scale with resolution).
4 TFLOPS (the PS4 Pro’s number) while docked brings you to 25.5 GB/s/TFLOP, in the underperforming range even before you take out a premium for the CPU.
Handheld is, presumably at 2/3rds the bandwidth (using standard LPDDR clocks). The PS4 is only 1.8 TFLOPS. With less than half the GPU power, and 2/3rds of the bandwidth, we’re obviously in better shape. 37.7 GB/s/TFLOP is well past the top RTX 30 numbers, while leaving plenty of room for the CPU.
So, pushing PS4 level of TFLOPs while keeping the GPU and the CPU fed isn’t a problem in either mode. But past ~3TFLOPS, bandwidth becomes an issue.
Appendix: Why is bandwidth so much lower on modern GPUs?
The GCN GPU used in the PS4 and Xbone was very bandwidth hungry. Credit to @Pokemaniac for explaining this to me. Basically it renders a screen at a time, front to back. For SD resolutions that’s not awful, but on HD or higher screens this is an aggressively cache-unfriendly design. You’re having to fetch the same data over and over again as you retouch it.
Later GPUs, including the one in the Switch, cut the screen into tiles, and can render multiple tiles at a time. The tile size is dynamically selected to fit into cache, so data only needs to be loaded once, and parallel rendering of tiles allows the small amount of bandwidth to be used constantly, instead of bursty load-render-load-render like older GPUs.
9-Volt
Adept
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Nobody said there won't be any external studios still doing ports jobs on Switch successor. They will. And they will use the same black magic they used on Switch to make the impossible possible.
That said, I'd expect even the biggest, most cutting edge game to take even less time to get ported to the successor when compared to Switch 1 miracle ports. We're still waiting Kingdom Come from Saber ffs.
SirArthur
Kremling
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So for Alan Wake 1, according to the communication director, Nintendo wanted that game and Epic also pushed for it to be on the platform. He did mention that it was a learning experience on how to approach the hardware. I can imagine lol, Control was a cloud version so I dont think they would have needed a dev kit for that. AW did get better with patches. So I can see them doing a port, specially with Epic and Nvidia wanting to push their tech.
Strollin Stu
Cappy
I don't think Nate's statement from today is even anything new, I recall him mentioning that 8GB of RAM wasn't anything he'd heard earlier than this. I suppose there's always the ever-looming threat of NINTENDOOMERISM, but I don't think there's much else besides that.
Regardless, I can't really imagine it being anything but 12GB at this point. Nintendo has historically run multiple smaller capacity DRAM parts rather than one big part and while I don't have any information on what Samsung does, Micron has their LPDDR5 parts listed and they don't have any 4GB or 8GB parts, only 6GB. So unless Nintendo's getting their own custom DRAM part done for the Switch 2 (which I really doubt, considering the iPhone 14 Pro and iPhone 15 uses 6GB LPDDR5 which means commissioning a smaller part might not even be a better deal), I imagine they're probably going to do a two-6GB modules for a total of 12GB.
Also, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but assuming things end up being the way we think they're going to be and the Switch 2 has 12GB of RAM, will this be the first Nintendo console since the GameCube to have more RAM than a competing platform (GameCube had more than the PS2 and Dreamcast, while a theoretical Switch 2 with 12GB of RAM would have more than a Series S)? It would be cool if true.
OctoSplattack
Chain Chomp
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Drake has the same number of tensor cores and rt cores as the Ampere line. the games are not made the same so you can't directly compare them. games on drake will be custom tailored to the device
Qualcomm uploaded a video on their UE5 Lumen demo and it shows some interesting cutbacks: the sun angle changing is less fine grained, some objects don't cast shadows, the shadow resolution is lower. can't get a read on the resolution, but I still expect something in between 540p and 720p. since it looks playable, I hope it's released
D
Deleted member 645
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What’s new?
The Competition
Piranha Plant
If my memory serves, you previously mentioned it was going to be 12GB right? Is that still going to be the case or do you think it's possible the system will have 16GB? Thanks!
lemonfresh
#Team2024
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people debating about the amount of ram again
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……it is unreasonable, yes. It’s drawing any relevant conclusion for something that has zero connection besides making the chip.
Ghostsonplanets
Ghost in the Sales
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️Nintendo Switch
D
Deleted member 887
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Nintendo making a “move” means reducing their cut or funding the port.
Take Two will argue that a high quality port to a small device will be expensive, will sell less than the PC version, and drice hardware sales for Nintendo, so they deserve a lot of money.
Nintendo will argue they’re going to sell 100 million of these things and if even 10% of people buy the game there, that’s half a billion dollars, and Take Two doesn’t need a penny.
Both companies know that if they give more than usual to the other, it will be used as leverage against them by other companies. Both can afford to walk away.
So yes, these conversations will happen. Whether or not there is a number in the middle that makes both happy is another question.
Lancelot
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I suppose AW2 if ever ported to Nintendo would mean they'd rather backport the Nvidia rendering paths to Drake rather than the modified PS5/Xbox Series ones... They might be superior lightning-wise and better suited to Nvidia hardware, would be very interesting to see imo.
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