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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

We need to stop gaslighting ourselves to demand less.

Mobile tech can do much better. No doubt Nintendo developed games can look good even if Switch 2 is just two switches ducked taped together, but that's not an excuse for Nintendo to release such a device
I’m not expecting the switch 2 to be like that lol. If anything what I said is probably going to be much less than what they actually release. 3D Mario always has the utmost care put into it, we have nothing to worry about
 
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As shown above, the AC adapter used for the Nintendo Switch family supports 5 V * 1.3 A and 15 V * 2.6 A. 9 V is missing, which makes the AC adapter used for the Nintendo Switch family not compliant with USB PD specifications.
Am I mistaken, or is the listing on the AC adapter incomplete?

It's my understanding that Nintendo Switch recieves 15W of power from the Nintendo Switch Dock.

So, Nintendo Switch directly connected to a Nintendo Switch AC Adapter would be using the 15W profile, which for USB PD is the 9V state you point out is missing.

Am I missing something? Does the Switch NOT support fast charging, and the 15W input is ONLY for TV mode going full blast? Does the AC adapter only output its lowest power rating regardless of situation if directly connected?

And one final annecdote, my phone supports USB PD up to 15W, and it can fast charge from the Nintendo Switch AC adapter, which would imply it's using the 9V standard not listed on the adapter. Or does 7.5W constitute "fast charging" in USB PD?

Forgive my confusion, am I missing something, or is the 9V state simply not listed?
 
I do wonder if Nintendo's also going to revise/redesign the dock for Nintendo's new hardware to ensure the dock works as intended with the revised/redesigned AC adapter for Nintendo's new hardware, since the OLED model's dock only mentions supporting 15 V * 2.6 A as shown below.
Why would the dock need to change? Im not aware that the PD specification requires that docks support the power modes that chargers support.
 
PS4 level visuals are already getting to a level of a "good enough" in a lot of cases.

Honestly Spider-Man 2 on PS5 doesn't look that much better than Spider-Man 1 or Miles Morales.

Remember in the past even in generation we'd get like a jump from Mario 1 to Mario 3 which is honestly probably more noticeable.
Honestly having a ps4 graphic level Mario at 60fps is good enough for me

Nintendo knows how to make their flagship games look damn good. I remember when galaxy came out people were saying it looked better than some early 360/ps3 games
It does seem we've hit the logical end-point for feasible graphics in video games with the 9th generation as a whole. With a good enough team that optimises the hell out of their game, we can have photo-realistic graphics that look insane in motion... but is unreasonable to expect, make and replicate for every game going forward. The crunch and brutal work hours are just not worth it. Having PS4 graphics is a seriously good thing to have, and Nintendo makes games on lower hardware that puts modern games to shame in a lot of ways. That Galaxy comparison is insanely on point.

That "mid-generation" jump point that @Machrider made also has a lot of weight. We're not increasing in capabilities as fast as we did 40 years ago, we've slowed down a ton. Most of the big advancements recently are to do with optimisation (DLSS, FSR, Frame Generation) and streamlining specific features (Ray-tracing with lighting). Graphical features aren't jumping as much, but that's not a bad thing. If Nintendo uses the Switch 2 to experiment with what other companies could've done with 8th (or arguably 9th) generation hardware, I'll be more than happy. Tears of the Kingdom was made on hardware with a similar power-level to the 2005 Xbox 360. Imagine what they can do with hardware far more powerful?

That thought alone makes me happy with the generational jump with the Switch. I want Nintendo to show how to make a damn fine, experimental and fun game.
 
Am I mistaken, or is the listing on the AC adapter incomplete?

It's my understanding that Nintendo Switch recieves 15W of power from the Nintendo Switch Dock.

So, Nintendo Switch directly connected to a Nintendo Switch AC Adapter would be using the 15W profile, which for USB PD is the 9V state you point out is missing.

Am I missing something? Does the Switch NOT support fast charging, and the 15W input is ONLY for TV mode going full blast? Does the AC adapter only output its lowest power rating regardless of situation if directly connected?

And one final annecdote, my phone supports USB PD up to 15W, and it can fast charge from the Nintendo Switch AC adapter, which would imply it's using the 9V standard not listed on the adapter.

Forgive my confusion, am I missing something, or is the 9V state simply not listed?
Someone did a review of the AC adapter used for the Nintendo Switch family.

And the AC adapter used for the Nintendo Switch family was found to not be able to fast charge iPhones and Android smartphones that require 9 V for fast charging.

(And I can confirm from personal experience the AC adapter used for the Nintendo Switch family couldn't fast charge my Google Pixel 4a 5G.)
 
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Keeping in mind the studio behind Witcher 3 is in Poland and the working salary there I believe is considerably lower. If that team was in like Japan or California or U.K. or France, you're probably looking at something around $100 million, but even $81 million is a fairly high budget with no marketing.

Nintendo may be willing to spend $100-$150 million to make a Zelda game, sure, but a Metroid or Xenoblade game ... I dunno.
I can understand that entirely but the same development house that made TW3 also made Cyberpunk 2077 and the cost doesn't reflect when comparing the two games... For Nintendo's second tier games even 40-50 million dollars would probably be an increase in development budget as I don't think most of those games cost close to that to make.
 
It does seem we've hit the logical end-point for feasible graphics in video games with the 9th generation as a whole. With a good enough team that optimises the hell out of their game, we can have photo-realistic graphics that look insane in motion... but is unreasonable to expect, make and replicate for every game going forward. The crunch and brutal work hours are just not worth it. Having PS4 graphics is a seriously good thing to have, and Nintendo makes games on lower hardware that puts modern games to shame in a lot of ways. That Galaxy comparison is insanely on point.

That "mid-generation" jump point that @Machrider made also has a lot of weight. We're not increasing in capabilities as fast as we did 40 years ago, we've slowed down a ton. Most of the big advancements recently are to do with optimisation (DLSS, FSR, Frame Generation) and streamlining specific features (Ray-tracing with lighting). Graphical features aren't jumping as much, but that's not a bad thing. If Nintendo uses the Switch 2 to experiment with what other companies could've done with 8th (or arguably 9th) generation hardware, I'll be more than happy. Tears of the Kingdom was made on hardware with a similar power-level to the 2005 Xbox 360. Imagine what they can do with hardware far more powerful?

That thought alone makes me happy with the generational jump with the Switch. I want Nintendo to show how to make a damn fine, experimental and fun game.

Yeah, the PS5 and Xbox Series X are massively too weak to properly do ray tracing or Nanite and next gen will be another leap with Path Tracing and Nanite-adjacent tech.

(Nanite at 800p FSR2'd up to 1100p is just... no, don't do that...)

This gen and current gen are just about eliminating the parts of games that look shitty (eg, pop-in, some shadows not working, some very blurry and low detailed stuff up close) instead of massively upgrading the stuff that already looked good. Instead of 30-50% of the game looking great, it'll be close to 100% of the game looking great.
 
Sure. It was this tweet. Unless they secured another design for a platform host we don’t know about, the mention of low-powered consoles is Nintendo. The tweet was written in January this year, so, after tape-out. I also struggle to get my head around a less powerful SoC in the same tweet having more RAM than what Nintendo would need for RT and DLSS, so, it isn’t a nebulous hope. I’ve also come around to the view that the OS ambitions won’t stand still. There’s a lot more to go on, but as it stands, 16GB RAM is the closest we have to a nailed-on spec. Now, all of that said, IF it ends up with 12GB, it will be because developers expressed a satisfaction with that. If they didn’t, and we hear about it, then, and only then should we start to be concerned. Until then, there’s no cause to panic.
There’s no connection between that because those are two different chips.

Entirely different.
 
Why would the dock need to change? Im not aware that the PD specification requires that docks support the power modes that chargers support.
I think the USB PD specifications applies to all electronic products equipped with a USB-C port (p. 3).

That being said, I believe Thraktor mentioned that docks are not covered under the EU's legislation (regarding USB-C). But I don't know if the dock for Nintendo's new hardware's going to behave abornmally when being plugged in with a revised/redesigned AC adapter for Nintendo's new hardware, which I believe is most certainly under the EU's legislation. (And when I say revised/redesigned, I meant in the sense of being fully compliant with USB PD specifications since the AC adapter used for the Nintendo Switch family isn't compliant with USB PD specifications.) That's why I said I wonder if Nintendo's going to revise/redesign the dock for Nintendo's new hardware.
 
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That's not always the case.

On the matter of RAM, all I can say at this point is that the long-feared 8GB of RAM number tossed around was never a figure I had heard.
NateTheHate finally confirms LPDDR3 6GB RAM for Switch NG
someone already made the joke this is so fucked up :(
 
Well that's reassuring. I'm still hoping for 16GB because that'll mean that the Switch 2 is very powerful and means I can reserve my Steam Deck for other games that aren't on Switch.

I'm curious as to a lot of the specifics of that "12-16GB of RAM" though. Namely stuff like "Oh, what speeds, will it be dual channel, will all of it have the same bit-count, will there be additional memory as an OS cache like the PS4", stuff like that, but for now "12-16GB of RAM" will do me just fine.
 
Someone did a review of the AC adapter used for the Nintendo Switch family.

And the AC adapter used for the Nintendo Switch family was found to not be able to fast charge iPhones and Android smartphones that require 9 V for fast charging.

(And from personal experience, I can confirm the AC adapter used for the Nintendo Switch wasn't able to fast charge my Google Pixel 4a 5G.)
Thanks for the extra details. Upon testing it, my phone shows the fast charging icon, but it's only using 7.5W. Ugh!
 
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Honestly having a ps4 graphic level Mario at 60fps is good enough for me

Nintendo knows how to make their flagship games look damn good. I remember when galaxy came out people were saying it looked better than some early 360/ps3 games
You can, the market not. Lots of company already complain about Series S, imagine if Switch 2 is, basically, a Ps4. That thing will be almost no support from current gen games.
 
So 6GB 4GB? Just kidding

But in all seriousness I assume the numbers you have heard is above 8
Soooo... eiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight .1?

kiss-hi.gif
 
You can, the market not. Lots of company already complain about Series S, imagine if Switch 2 is, basically, a Ps4. That thing will be almost no support from current gen games.
The current gaming market is already demanding that games are designed to be scalable if it's multiplatform by virtue of PC gaming being significantly prominent and also significantly diverse in hardware composition. As such, such games aren't built for a bespoke hardware configuration but rather the feature set enabled by that hardware.

Raw computing power is no longer a significant metric of hardware capability that it once was in the past.
 
BRB writing an anrticle. Headline: famous insider confirms 9 gb ram for Switch 2.
At least you didn't use "well known leaker" label to describe NateDrake. I saw exactly that label somewhere pretty recently (within last 3 days) used for NateDrake, I was thinking he probably wouldn't like that label.. haha.
 
You can, the market not. Lots of company already complain about Series S, imagine if Switch 2 is, basically, a Ps4. That thing will be almost no support from current gen games.
The main complaint devs have against the Series S, is that it's memory limited. It's not the cpu, or gpu. It's that they are asked to scale 2 similar versions of the game with a gap of 6 gb memory (7,5 vs 13,5 for games). And they have to do a series s version released day and date, if they want to be on Xbox.

With the switch there will be no requirement of day and date release, no requirement to bring every feature over, and I believe people are going to be more forgiving of downgrades since it's a portable system.

And noons expects it to have third party support on par with Xbox.
 
I know chargers aren't the most exciting things in the world but if Nintendo has to redesign the switch charger to meet PD spec I hope they go GaN(Gallium Nitride).

I have a 166W GaN charger that can run two 65W office laptops via USB C plus charge two phones at the same time and it's not that much bigger and heavier than the current switch AC adaptor.

If Nintendo went GaN they could make the charger really small, as an example this is a GaN charger than includes a Nintendo switch dock within the housing and it's no bigger than a normal switch adaptor.

iu
 
The current gaming market is already demanding that games are designed to be scalable if it's multiplatform by virtue of PC gaming being significantly prominent and also significantly diverse in hardware composition. As such, such games aren't built for a bespoke hardware configuration but rather the feature set enabled by that hardware.

Raw computing power is no longer a significant metric of hardware capability that it once was in the past.
Scalable, but not perfect. Baldur's Gate 3 lost functions on Series S. When the PRO models release, it will be even more difficult to keep the heavy games intact. The Switch 2 that people are expecting here is a machine that can be best positioned in current gen than a Ps4 that some people think will be satisfactory.
 
I'll be honest I don't think EPD will push the Switch 2 that hard, maybe for a Zelda game perhaps.

For EPD, PS4-range visuals alone is probably going to be a massive upgrade in their eyes that is already going to push the budget and staff size envelope beyond what they are probably most comfortable with.

3rd parties will be able to use that power though.

Like Horizon Forbidden West is a game that does run on a PS4 (and not bad at that), and it's also still probably one of the best looking games period. It also cost more than $212 million dollars to develop that with a staff of more than 300 people (full time). And this is even before marketing costs, lol, that's probably another $30-$50 million at least.
Mario has been known to be using 60fps for their 3D games for a couple generations now. Matching PS4 Ratchet and Clank in fidelity will be possible. It should easily surpass it, at least in raw performance and tools. But it's gonna be interesting how Nintendo does it. They have gotten away with really good looking games partilty by not using anti aliasing and a lot of texture in their games. Man next gen is gonna be a whole nother ball game.

If the Zelda game on switch 2 is open world, then I would expect the graphics to scale down a bit because, and I'm fully expecting 30fps. But it's gonna look awesome too.
in terms of purely gpu performance and being really conservative, Switch 2 without DLSS is PS4 and with DLSS it's PS4 Pro.

But you gotta keep in mind it'll have more modern hardware than either PS4 or Xbox one, like a much better CPU, faster storage speeds (closer to SSD than HDD) and probably more ram (with current speculation being 10 - 12 GB ). Alongside capabilities for raytracing thanks to the RT cores.

So essentially in this case even if the GPU power ends up being merely "okay" (in the worst case scenario mind you) the rest of the feature set will still make the device itself rather compelling and even quite future proof.

Yeah it's weird.

GPU wise, handheld mode should be PS4 level or better, even if it doesn't match on paper specs of 1.8 tflops, because the architecture is a lot more modern and efficient. CPU will run laps around Jaguars. RAM bandwidth in handheld mode (88 or 102GB/s on best case scenario, assuming lpddr5x 135GB/s in the latter) will be interesting though on regards to PS4 ports. A fair comparison would be if we get a 1080p screen. I actually don't know if any SD games in docked mode actually run the same resolution as PS4 games, due to the limited bandwidth of 88 GB/s. Switch 2 will also be way more efficient in using bandwidth for games too since SD is a portable PC.

Docked should be pretty close to PS4 Pro in regards to GPU performance, but of course PS4 Pro was only used to upscale PS4 games to 1440p or up to 4k from 1080p. I don't feel confident that Switch could get that with it's low bandwidth. So now I understand why people say PS4 Pro in docked with DLSS, if we go on resolution only, because the bandwidth of 102GB/s-135 GB/s might not be able to match PS4 Pro's raw bandwidth.Though I'd say it would surpass PS4 Pro work DLSS resolution and have better graphical detail to boot.

At least I feel more confident to say a lot of switch games should get to 1440p or 4k on Switch. Though we'll see how efficient backwards compatibility mode is.
 
Scalable, but not perfect. Baldur's Gate 3 lost functions on Series S. When the PRO models release, it will be even more difficult to keep the heavy games intact. The Switch 2 that people are expecting here is a machine that can be best positioned in current gen than a Ps4 that some people think will be satisfactory.
Pro model. Xbox won't have one.

And it's a ps4, with ps5+ features. Similar to how Switch got games far beyond 360 in spite of being similar in powerx switch 2 will be capable of games beyond ps4 due to having modern features.
 
That's not always the case.

On the matter of RAM, all I can say at this point is that the long-feared 8GB of RAM number tossed around was never a figure I had heard.
fuck me this was a thing? the Series S is completely fucked because it only has 10 gigs. man to get 8 gigs :LOL:
 
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it wouldn't be a huge loss not to have R*

they do have some big strengths, like graphics, and the unnamed design paradigm that few developers have (rpg devs, nintendo) to keep you on a task, with sub tasks on the back of your mind, always keeping you busy till it's 4am wtf

negative qualities... too much gaas... they are too reliant on open worlds, and they are essentially crime simulations incorporated... the latter hasn't appealed to me since I was 11 or 12

people talk about gta6, and I'm baffled gamers still want to beat up hookers... like got dam, i'd rather bounce around in mario
If GTA is not your thing that’s fine but it’s delusional to think Nintendo wouldn’t consider it a huge benefit to get GTA6 on switch 2 when GTA5 is one of the best selling games of all time.
 
I think the problem with scalability is that people need to understand that starting with a 12 cylinder racing engine and trying to extract a 30 mpg mode out of it is a difficult endeavor. but starting with a 4 cylinder motor would make things a lot easier

what I'm saying is, you have to scope features so they are designed to scale broadly. Series S's problem is that it doesn't hit the scaling promises Microsoft made
 
I'll be honest I don't think EPD will push the Switch 2 that hard, maybe for a Zelda game perhaps.

For EPD, PS4-range visuals alone is probably going to be a massive upgrade in their eyes that is already going to push the budget and staff size envelope beyond what they are probably most comfortable with.

3rd parties will be able to use that power though.

Like Horizon Forbidden West is a game that does run on a PS4 (and not bad at that), and it's also still probably one of the best looking games period. It also cost more than $212 million dollars to develop that with a staff of more than 300 people (full time). And this is even before marketing costs, lol, that's probably another $30-$50 million at least.

Nintendo has always been pushing their consoles despite the power differences. Mario Kart 8 and TotK are not the works of someone relying on their non realistic graphics as a crutch.
 
I wonder how well Switch 2 could run Cities Skylines 2 when they iron out bugs and performance issues + adding DLSS2.

Seems the game is GPU demanding and not CPU (opposite of CS1) so hopefully It would run better than what the first game did on Switch
 
I wonder how well Switch 2 could run Cities Skylines 2 when they iron out bugs and performance issues + adding DLSS2.

Seems the game is GPU demanding and not CPU (opposite of CS1) so hopefully It would run better than what the first game did on Switch
I saw a Reddit post of someone with an RTX 4080 (which goes for $1100) running the main menu of the game at 6FPS (yes, 6, not 60 or 16, 6)

I think it’s anyone’s guess whether or not the game will run on Switch 2 unless they drastically improve the performance. I think a target render resolution of 720p (so 1080p DLSSQ or 1440p DLSSP) makes sense if the improved version is ported to Switch 2
 
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The emulation scene is one thing, eventually there will be a way to emulate the Switch 2, even if it takes over a decade. What I’m interested in is whether the Switch 2 can be extensively homebrewed, as the Switch‘s RCM exploit was such a huge mistake that Nintendo definitely doesn’t want to repeat. The only way to even hack the current Mariko units is to hardmod them, turning away a lot of people interested in homebrew. Even if there is a way to get into the Switch 2, you already know Nintendo will ramp up telemetry to scare people with potential bans, especially since Nintendo accounts will carry over. This Switch 2 might just be jailbreak-proof, or at the very least unfavorable to jailbreak.
It's really weird. Nintendo is incredibly aggressive on if you modify the Switch to run arbitrary NSP files (I.E pirating), but they are much more inconsistent with just enforcing simply using CFW (although stuff like modding online games or erasing dump files would no doubt constitute as a red flag). I wouldn't be surprised if they went far more aggressive with general telemetry, so regardless if said people mod online titles/sail the seven seas, but that isn't really 100% certain from what I've seen.
Mario has been known to be using 60fps for their 3D games for a couple generations now. Matching PS4 Ratchet and Clank in fidelity will be possible. It should easily surpass it, at least in raw performance and tools. But it's gonna be interesting how Nintendo does it. They have gotten away with really good looking games partilty by not using anti aliasing and a lot of texture in their games. Man next gen is gonna be a whole nother ball game.

If the Zelda game on switch 2 is open world, then I would expect the graphics to scale down a bit because, and I'm fully expecting 30fps. But it's gonna look awesome too.


Yeah it's weird.

GPU wise, handheld mode should be PS4 level or better, even if it doesn't match on paper specs of 1.8 tflops, because the architecture is a lot more modern and efficient. CPU will run laps around Jaguars. RAM bandwidth in handheld mode (88 or 102GB/s on best case scenario, assuming lpddr5x 135GB/s in the latter) will be interesting though on regards to PS4 ports. A fair comparison would be if we get a 1080p screen. I actually don't know if any SD games in docked mode actually run the same resolution as PS4 games, due to the limited bandwidth of 88 GB/s. Switch 2 will also be way more efficient in using bandwidth for games too since SD is a portable PC.

Docked should be pretty close to PS4 Pro in regards to GPU performance, but of course PS4 Pro was only used to upscale PS4 games to 1440p or up to 4k from 1080p. I don't feel confident that Switch could get that with it's low bandwidth. So now I understand why people say PS4 Pro in docked with DLSS, if we go on resolution only, because the bandwidth of 102GB/s-135 GB/s might not be able to match PS4 Pro's raw bandwidth.Though I'd say it would surpass PS4 Pro work DLSS resolution and have better graphical detail to boot.

At least I feel more confident to say a lot of switch games should get to 1440p or 4k on Switch. Though we'll see how efficient backwards compatibility mode is.
That's something that's actually perplexed me a bit in speculating over T239's performance; how exactly would memory BW be a potential limit to competing against the PS4 Pro in docked but not the PS4 in handheld? At 5500mbps for handheld, Drake/Super Nintendo Switch would have exactly half the bandwidth of the base PS4 (176GB/s vs 88GB/s) & 6400mbps docked would be 47% of the PS4 Pro's bandwidth (217.6GB/s vs 102.4GB/s), & 8533mbps would place it at just under 63% of the PS4 Pro in raw bandwidth.
 
I think the USB PD specifications applies to all electronic products equipped with a USB-C port (p. 3).

That being said, I believe Thraktor mentioned that docks are not covered under the EU's legislation (regarding USB-C). But I don't know if the dock for Nintendo's new hardware's going to behave abornmally when being plugged in with a revised/redesigned AC adapter for Nintendo's new hardware, which I believe is most certainly under the EU's legislation. (And when I say revised/redesigned, I meant in the sense of being fully compliant with USB PD specifications since the AC adapter used for the Nintendo Switch family isn't compliant with USB PD specifications.) That's why I said I wonder if Nintendo's going to revise/redesign the dock for Nintendo's new hardware.
It's a good question about if the USB-IF actively applies "sanctions" to companies for non-compliance with the specification.

However, I read the TI paper you linked and have skimmed the USB PD 2.0 Specification, I don't read the USB PD specification (sec 9.1.1 specifically) or the TI paper to say that docks have to support the source power ratings from Figure 7 of the TI paper (table 10.2 in the USB PD spec) in downstream USB-C ports. I would assume so if the downstream port is advertised as USB-PD itself, but otherwise that available ports should support their base power specifications like USB 2.0 ports at 5v/.5amp.

There is no doubt that the current power supply is non-compliant for not supporting 9v, but I'm curious if it is a new product under the EU's directives, a quick skim of THOSE requirements are unclear if the Switch power supply is its own product and thus covered as existing prior to 2024, or not since its packed into the box with Drake.

In a way it doesn't matter. Either the existing dock is good enough for Drake or it isn't and either the existing power supply is good enough for Drake and the EU or it isn't.
 
We need to stop gaslighting ourselves to demand less from Nintendo. They can and should release a beastly hybrid console and all signs point that way.

What??????? They were saying they have a low requirement? Who's gaslighting?
Nobody said it's not going to be powerful
 
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I've also heard DLSS can also get updates through software? Is there always a possibility a new version of DLSS comes around the improves performance in the future? Making the Switch 2 in a way, "more powerful" via firmware updates?
This is actually a pretty interesting question. Here is the novella length version

In the 360 era, games got better much better looking over the course of the generation. There is still a legacy meme from that era, of developers "learning the hardware," but to a great degree that isn't true anymore. Yes, developers can still learn the ins and outs of a particular system. But during the 360 era, developers were learning to use a whole new class of hardware - programmable GPUs.

This was still new territory for home machines, and devs were digging up research papers from Pixar that had once been limited to supercomputer class machines and implementing them on home consoles. Devs were inventing whole new rendering techniques. That whole movement sort of peaked when devs started to do PBR at the end of the 360/PS3 era and at the beginning of the PS4/Xbone era.

Since then, new software technologies in rendering having been progressing at a much slower rate. There is still fantastic work happening, but the generational leap from technique alone on that hardware has stopped. But that's not the only hardware on the block.

When most folks (including us) say DLSS, they usually mean "DLSS Super Resolution", the upscaler. But DLSS is a suite of tools all of which do what Nvidia calls Neural Rendering - basically, using AI, and the tensor core hardware inside Nvidia GPUs, to render pixels in a totally new way. And this is an era where it really is possible to see huge leaps, and there have been two big ones already.

While we're not likely to see the ability to "download more performance" via firmware, DLSS upgrades do open up the possibility of big leaps over the course of the Switch 2's lifetime. And unlike some past leaps, DLSS is a library that Nintendo and Nvidia will provide integrated into the SDK. Meaning that updates to DLSS can make it into games much more quickly, meaning that I think we will see games get big performance patches for as long as Nvidia can make them.
 
If GTA is not your thing that’s fine but it’s delusional to think Nintendo wouldn’t consider it a huge benefit to get GTA6 on switch 2 when GTA5 is one of the best selling games of all time.

easy, I won't call names if you don't

I think gta is juvenile, stealing cars and looking up to gangsters and such... that's about as kiddy as it gets

...so maybe you're right? 🤷‍♂️
 
This is actually a pretty interesting question. Here is the novella length version

In the 360 era, games got better much better looking over the course of the generation. There is still a legacy meme from that era, of developers "learning the hardware," but to a great degree that isn't true anymore. Yes, developers can still learn the ins and outs of a particular system. But during the 360 era, developers were learning to use a whole new class of hardware - programmable GPUs.

This was still new territory for home machines, and devs were digging up research papers from Pixar that had once been limited to supercomputer class machines and implementing them on home consoles. Devs were inventing whole new rendering techniques. That whole movement sort of peaked when devs started to do PBR at the end of the 360/PS3 era and at the beginning of the PS4/Xbone era.

Since then, new software technologies in rendering having been progressing at a much slower rate. There is still fantastic work happening, but the generational leap from technique alone on that hardware has stopped. But that's not the only hardware on the block.

When most folks (including us) say DLSS, they usually mean "DLSS Super Resolution", the upscaler. But DLSS is a suite of tools all of which do what Nvidia calls Neural Rendering - basically, using AI, and the tensor core hardware inside Nvidia GPUs, to render pixels in a totally new way. And this is an era where it really is possible to see huge leaps, and there have been two big ones already.

While we're not likely to see the ability to "download more performance" via firmware, DLSS upgrades do open up the possibility of big leaps over the course of the Switch 2's lifetime. And unlike some past leaps, DLSS is a library that Nintendo and Nvidia will provide integrated into the SDK. Meaning that updates to DLSS can make it into games much more quickly, meaning that I think we will see games get big performance patches for as long as Nvidia can make them.
What are some examples of what you could theoretically add with a software update without new hardware? Is Ray Reconstruction one?
 
easy, I won't call names if you don't

I think gta is juvenile, stealing cars and looking up to gangsters and such... that's about as kiddy as it gets

...so maybe you're right? 🤷‍♂️
Most games are juvenile, for starters. That doesn't mean they don't sell a bazillion copies, that's what publishers care about.
 
That whole movement sort of peaked when devs started to do PBR at the end of the 360/PS3 era and at the beginning of the PS4/Xbone era.
This whole post is very interesting as a whole but I'm really curious on this part, since I can't really find anything on the matter. Did 360/PS3 ever utilize PBR? Afaik I thought it was impossible due to many memory limitations and the old GPUs themselves, Switch is a lot newer despite having similar raw grunt so I assumed that's how it was possible on it.
 
I bit off topic. But what makes a dev determine how a game should be CPU or GPU intensive? What are the pros and cons and how are they different?
it depends on what they want to do. cpu-bound games have a lot of simulations going on: tracking entities, updating shit, number crunching, etc. gpu-bound games push a lot of effects per pixel per frame. I don't want to say it's something you choose, though you can do that, if you want. but you can't really make a visual effect heavy game cpu bound

This whole post is very interesting as a whole but I'm really curious on this part, since I can't really find anything on the matter. Did 360/PS3 ever utilize PBR? Afaik I thought it was impossible due to many memory limitations and the old GPUs themselves, Switch is a lot newer despite having similar raw grunt so I assumed that was the reason behind it.
yes, at the tail end. notably games like Remember Me. Don't Nod's research papers were oft cited back then. I still have the pdf of the material parameters catalog on my desktop

 
9GB confirmed. yes I know that wouldn't fit on 128-bits
It does if you arrange the memory so the SOC only accesses 8GB at any one time! Who needs slow vs fast RAM, an entire gig you have to remap on the fly just to use!

A classic Nintendo move.
 
I bit off topic. But what makes a dev determine how a game should be CPU or GPU intensive? What are the pros and cons and how are they different?
CPU intensive would be anything that has to calculate tons of logic (lots of operations) that has nothing (or little) to do with graphics.

Like trying to simulate our entire universe even if everything is in 2D and using 8-bit pixel art

GPU intensive would be anything that requires a lot of graphical processing. Like Matrix UE5 demo
 
I'm super duper late on this, but apparently it's fake.
But Mario RPG and paper Mario both still have the same colored buttons for no apparent reason. Regardless of this, I feel like good reason exists to believe the switch 2 or whatever will have those buttons.
 
Please read this new, consolidated staff post before posting.

Furthermore, according to this follow-up post, all off-topic chat will be moderated.
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