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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

I'd be more concerned if a $1000 dollar phone COULDN'T run something made on 2013 tech
It's more that it actually gets developed for iPhone. It maybe can give Mobile Games partially a different direction. At least Apple continues to be committed to that which I don't think is a bad thing. Having alternatives is always better.
 
iPhone being able to run RE4R, RE Village, AC Mirage, Death Stranding, literally killed the arguments from yesterday elsewhere that mobile tech couldn't reach PS4 or above performance hahaha.
Death Stranding is coming to Nintendo Switch Next Gen/2 yeah.
Sony console exclusive. It's not coming to Microsoft or Nintendo consoles.
 
it's actually pretty impressive that the iPhone 15 can even run this game, makes me wonder what the Switch 2 can do.
tfw 2023, $1000 phone still can't catch up 2013 tech.
strange right?

It's more that it actually gets developed for iPhone. It maybe can give Mobile Games partially a different direction. At least Apple continues to be committed to that which I don't think is a bad thing. Having alternatives is always better.

it use the same backbone as mac
 
All these are PS4 games so I don't think is either impressive to be at iPhone 15 Pro o Switch NG, even with RT features.

It would blowout some minds if Asassins Creed Red, Resident Evil 9 or Star Wars Outclaws made it to those systems.
 
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It's more that it actually gets developed for iPhone. It maybe can give Mobile Games partially a different direction. At least Apple continues to be committed to that which I don't think is a bad thing. Having alternatives is always better.
it will take alot to change the entire market for ios games away from gacha
 
Tbh, having those AAAs ported to a ARM device will help Nintendo more than anything
Also, the price tag and not-for-children thing for iPhone 15 Pro don't make them an imminent threat to Nintendo
 
I would be disappointed if a 2023 Apple mobile device marketed as a 'Pro' model of their flagship phone starting at $999 wasn't at least as performant as the Switch 2.
The Apple A17 Pro Bionic probably already outperforms Drake in the CPU department, especially in single core performance, if the Geekbench 6 benchmarks are to be believed (here and here). (I know that Orin NX is not 100% representative, but Orin NX is the closest approximation to the Cortex-A78C Drake probably uses.)
 
Xenoblade 3 that use methods more complicated than FSR1 as well.

This has been a real head scratcher for me. Nintendo patented their reconstruction technique back in 2020, Xenoblade Chronicles 3 implemented it reconstructing 540p up to 1080p with impressive results. The only thing I will say about this implementation is it resolves in a softer image than your typical 1080p resolve, but all in all it was solid and certainly much better than FSR 1.0. I was dead certain that Zelda TotK would use it, and I still feel like it should have. They could have rendered at 720p instead of 900p and then reconstructed up to 1080p. Most of the framerate hitches are caused by memory bandwidth limitations, so the lower rendering resolution should have cleaned up those drops. Seeing as how Monolithsoft is very hands on with Zelda development, seems like something that would have been possible to implement. I would assume they have their reasons, but I would be damn curious to know what those reasons are, because I Zelda TotK art style would have played nice with a softer image of higher resolution.
 
I think you guys are REALLY underestimating Apple this time. Just rebutting some points I read on this page.

1- "Price". Yes, the iPhone 15 Pro will be at least 2x more expensive than the Switch 2, but that never stopped Apple from selling more iPhones in 1 YEAR than Nintendo has produced Switches since 2017. These phones are already ultra-popular playing mobile games, Having console-level games will only increase its appeal. It's 1200 dollars to take a portable video game + all the functions that iPhones already do today.
2- Smartphones have always been more powerful than the Switch. This is partly true, but until then this power had never been used to its full extent, now we are seeing games that are at console level running on these machines, at least 6 months before Nintendo launches its console that has the biggest selling point (outside the exclusives) would be exactly that.
3- "Controls": iPhone controls better than Joy-con are nothing new.
4- "Battery": perhaps the most dubious factor so far, however the A17 Pro will be produced on a node that we wouldn't even dream of having in Drake, that is, it will be more energy efficient, and with access to fast charging and perhaps even a bigger battery than the one present in the Switch 2.
5- "Temperature": this first interaction will certainly be the A17 Pro's Achilles heel, but what about in 2 or 3 years? We will have an even more powerful and efficient chip.

This will be just the first iteration of an iPhone with access to AAA games, and they still managed to deliver before the launch of the Switch 2. We will see more and more games and with each generation the distance to Nintendo's hardware will increase.
Great masterstroke by Apple that only continues to enrich its ecosystem. Mac, iPhone, iPad and Vision Pro all sharing the same software and same hardware, unfortunately this is not something Nintendo can compete with.
 
I can't quite believe that iPhone is being mentioned in the same breath as Switch 2 anywhere, quie frankly.

Fanboys are insane.
Uh, is it? High performance, ARM based mobile silicon with AI upscaling and AI assisted rendering? It's pretty comparable. Mind you my understanding is that Switch 2 will just have so much more room to breathe- and 4 times the high performance CPU cores- dedicated cooling, exclusives and ongoing support targeting ONLY those specs for years. But yes, I think it's worth comparing. Though given their RT demo Vs a "comparable to Xbox Series X Matrix demo", it's clear Nintendo is more concerned with effective RT, and Apple just wants to say "uh, it's there if you want".
 
I think you guys are REALLY underestimating Apple this time. Just rebutting some points I read on this page.

1- "Price". Yes, the iPhone 15 Pro will be at least 2x more expensive than the Switch 2, but that never stopped Apple from selling more iPhones in 1 YEAR than Nintendo has produced Switches since 2017. These phones are already ultra-popular playing mobile games, Having console-level games will only increase its appeal. It's 1200 dollars to take a portable video game + all the functions that iPhones already do today.
2- Smartphones have always been more powerful than the Switch. This is partly true, but until then this power had never been used to its full extent, now we are seeing games that are at console level running on these machines, at least 6 months before Nintendo launches its console that has the biggest selling point (outside the exclusives) would be exactly that.
3- "Controls": iPhone controls better than Joy-con are nothing new.
4- "Battery": perhaps the most dubious factor so far, however the A17 Pro will be produced on a node that we wouldn't even dream of having in Drake, that is, it will be more energy efficient, and with access to fast charging and perhaps even a bigger battery than the one present in the Switch 2.
5- "Temperature": this first interaction will certainly be the A17 Pro's Achilles heel, but what about in 2 or 3 years? We will have an even more powerful and efficient chip.

This will be just the first iteration of an iPhone with access to AAA games, and they still managed to deliver before the launch of the Switch 2. We will see more and more games and with each generation the distance to Nintendo's hardware will increase.
Great masterstroke by Apple that only continues to enrich its ecosystem. Mac, iPhone, iPad and Vision Pro all sharing the same software and same hardware, unfortunately this is not something Nintendo can compete with.
"3- "Controls": iPhone controls better than Joy-con are nothing new."

... what the?

Drift issues (that can be repaired for free for the most part) asides, who TF want to play an average console game on their iPhone? I sure wouldn't.

Newflash: You can find articles older than 6 years ago proclaiming mobile gaming is going to kill console gaming. That will never happen in the foreseeable future.

But you do you I guess. Go play console games on your iPhone while the rest of us enjoy those on our big TVs using Pro controllers.
 
Are we seriously comparing iPhones to Switch 2 now

It's two different ways of playing, no one will really play AC:Mirage or Death Stranding on a 6" Screen with no real controller except at the toilet.

The only threat is that Raytracing and AI Upscaling just got mainstreamed by Apple, and Nintendo better not come too late to the party.

That's why we getting a reveal soon
 
I know we’re in the midst of the Switch 2 reveal, but all this tech talk is making me question just how powerful the Switch 3 will be. I know it’s early, but it’s impressive just how much they’re doing with such a small form factor
Man, I got massacred a couple of years ago when I said I'd like the Switch 2 to have, at least, 2 TFLOPs in DOCK mode. I was told it was impossible. Now maybe it will have 2 TFLOPs in portable mode. There's no way to telling how technology will evolve or what to expect too soon.
 
Man, good controls made for cell phones have existed for at least 10 years. An example is the backbone. This was at a time when games were focused on being played with touch. With the arrival of games designed to be played by controller, this market only increases.
maxresdefault.jpg
 
The Apple A17 Pro Bionic probably already outperforms Drake in the CPU department, especially in single core performance, if the Geekbench 6 benchmarks are to be believed (here and here). (I know that Orin NX is not 100% representative, but Orin NX is the closest approximation to the Cortex-A78C Drake probably uses.)
Big note on this. Orin/A78AE is likely less representative than a standard A78

It's pretty much running at half-clock it visually is becuase the lockstep makes it run the same task twice before posting an output.

So sure, it's 1.9GHz at Max on the CPU for it's cores. but that's pretty much 900MHz in result because it's using 2 of those 1.9GHz cycles to produce the output a normal A78 would actually get out at 1.9GHz in a single cycle.
 
Uh, is it? High performance, ARM based mobile silicon with AI upscaling and AI assisted rendering? It's pretty comparable. Mind you my understanding is that Switch 2 will just have so much more room to breathe- and 4 times the high performance CPU cores- dedicated cooling, exclusives and ongoing support targeting ONLY those specs for years. But yes, I think it's worth comparing. Though given their RT demo Vs a "comparable to Xbox Series X Matrix demo", it's clear Nintendo is more concerned with effective RT, and Apple just wants to say "uh, it's there if you want".

That's not quite what I meant, more that 'Switch 2 Killer' is the rhetoric leading the charge. That kind of fanboy chatter, when Nintendo haven't actually revealed anything yet. It's expected, but pathetic non the less.

But yeah, mobile games are coming a long way. Qualcomm are doing some insane things with Snapdragon too. Would I want to play my games that way though? Ehh. Nice to have, I suppose.
 
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it will take alot to change the entire market for ios games away from gacha
That's why I said partially. Doing Apple Arcade or having in general a big phone maker being committed to bring "big" games to their mobile platforms are good things.
 
Man, good controls made for cell phones have existed for at least 10 years. An example is the backbone. This was at a time when games were focused on being played with touch. With the arrival of games designed to be played by controller, this market only increases.
maxresdefault.jpg
Oh, you mean plug-in controllers sold separately? Yeah I can see that being fine to use.

The problem again with this is that people use their phones for other shit, and by and large do not want to be using it to play demanding games. This is a fundamentally untenable barrier to phone gaming encroaching on console gaming.
 
This will be just the first iteration of an iPhone with access to AAA games, and they still managed to deliver before the launch of the Switch 2. We will see more and more games and with each generation the distance to Nintendo's hardware will increase.
Great masterstroke by Apple that only continues to enrich its ecosystem. Mac, iPhone, iPad and Vision Pro all sharing the same software and same hardware, unfortunately this is not something Nintendo can compete with.
what-are-you-talking-about-huh.gif
 
I think you guys are REALLY underestimating Apple this time. Just rebutting some points I read on this page.

1- "Price". Yes, the iPhone 15 Pro will be at least 2x more expensive than the Switch 2, but that never stopped Apple from selling more iPhones in 1 YEAR than Nintendo has produced Switches since 2017. These phones are already ultra-popular playing mobile games, Having console-level games will only increase its appeal. It's 1200 dollars to take a portable video game + all the functions that iPhones already do today.
2- Smartphones have always been more powerful than the Switch. This is partly true, but until then this power had never been used to its full extent, now we are seeing games that are at console level running on these machines, at least 6 months before Nintendo launches its console that has the biggest selling point (outside the exclusives) would be exactly that.
3- "Controls": iPhone controls better than Joy-con are nothing new.
4- "Battery": perhaps the most dubious factor so far, however the A17 Pro will be produced on a node that we wouldn't even dream of having in Drake, that is, it will be more energy efficient, and with access to fast charging and perhaps even a bigger battery than the one present in the Switch 2.
5- "Temperature": this first interaction will certainly be the A17 Pro's Achilles heel, but what about in 2 or 3 years? We will have an even more powerful and efficient chip.

This will be just the first iteration of an iPhone with access to AAA games, and they still managed to deliver before the launch of the Switch 2. We will see more and more games and with each generation the distance to Nintendo's hardware will increase.
Great masterstroke by Apple that only continues to enrich its ecosystem. Mac, iPhone, iPad and Vision Pro all sharing the same software and same hardware, unfortunately this is not something Nintendo can compete with.
No Mario, no Zelda, no real high quality first party exclusives. As long as their ecosystem is infested with Gacha and shovelware, they will never be a serious competitor. They tired to alleviate that with Apple Arcade. And Apple Arcade TANKED.

Phone players simply aren’t interested in paying $60 for a complete game. They’d rather spend money on a free game creating the problematic “ecosystem” Apple got itself into right now.
 
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Man, good controls made for cell phones have existed for at least 10 years. An example is the backbone. This was at a time when games were focused on being played with touch. With the arrival of games designed to be played by controller, this market only increases.
And yet Switch have been selling like hotcakes.

Like I said and I suspect others share the same mindset, I don't want to do gaming on my iPhone. iPhone is not designed with gaming in mind. And like others have pointed out, temperature issues - no thanks.

The only games that exist on my iPhone are free games. Like Pokemon GO, etc. Gaming on my iPhone has never seemed as compelling as playing those games on a console designed from ground up with focus on gaming.
 
it use the same backbone as mac
Other ways around with Mac using the iPhone's backbone, but I agree it would be more surprising if the games announced for Mac at WWDC didn't come over to iPhone or iPad, its almost all the same stack to a game engine.
 
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I mean, if they're willing to take the effort to port games like AC Mirage to iPhones, then they defenietly will port them to Switch 2 (If and when possible)

I think the chances of Mirage, RE4, and Death Stranding on Switch 2 just shot up dramatically
 
I mean, if they're willing to take the effort to port games like AC Mirage to iPhones, then they defenietly will port them to Switch 2 (If and when possible)

I think the chances of Mirage, RE4, and Death Stranding on Switch 2 just shot up dramatically
Depends on how much Apple paid them tbh
 
Oh, you mean plug-in controllers sold separately? Yeah I can see that being fine to use.

The problem again with this is that people use their phones for other shit, and by and large do not want to be using it to play demanding games. This is a fundamentally untenable barrier to phone gaming encroaching on console gaming.

Yeah this is a really good point.

There is nothing stopping Apple taking this "console games on our platform" thing even more seriously and coming up with even better control solutions than the joy con and a dock for your TV and all of that.

But fundamentally, the "general utility" of a phone is such that people are not going to want to use it for something... specific, like this, for very long periods of time.

I think.
Maybe I'm way off.
It occurs to me that I use like 5% of the functionality of my phone, if that, and have bought and used a lot of expensive tools that my phone can technically do.
 
Thought I was reading the apple boards for a second lol, Games on phones wont effect the switch, The iphone is like over 1k and touch controls will never replace actual controls also the phones will have a small screen I feel like that will make it even harder to play the games compared to the decent screen size of the switch. Also again Nintendo still has their big first party games.
 
Man, good controls made for cell phones have existed for at least 10 years. An example is the backbone. This was at a time when games were focused on being played with touch. With the arrival of games designed to be played by controller, this market only increases.
maxresdefault.jpg
this remind me you some folks that touts "I don't need Switch, just a Phone with razer kishi is already fitted my need"
 
No Mario, no Zelda, no real high quality first party exclusives. And Apple Arcade TANKED. As long as their ecosystem is infested with Gacha and shovelware, they will never be a serious competitor. They tired to alleviate that with Apple Arcade. That bombed hard.
Yes, I agree with that, as long as you have Mario, Zelda and Pokemon, nothing will threaten Nintendo's existence.
 
Yeah this is a really good point.

There is nothing stopping Apple taking this "console games on our platform" thing even more seriously and coming up with even better control solutions than the joy con and a dock for your TV and all of that.

But fundamentally, the "general utility" of a phone is such that people are not going to want to use it for something... specific, like this, for very long periods of time.

I think.
Maybe I'm way off.
It occurs to me that I use like 5% of the functionality of my phone, if that, and have bought and used a lot of expensive tools that my phone can technically do.
Not to mention AAA games will probably be killer on battery life.....a battery which I need to stay alive all day to do other stuff
 
this remind me you some folks that touts "I don't need Switch, just a Phone with razer kishi is already fitted my need"
Well, when the best game on the iPhone was Candy Crush it really was a joke. But now we're talking about RE 4 Remake, one of the biggest releases of the year, running on a smartphone, this is unprecedented.
 
Yes, I agree with that, as long as you have Mario, Zelda and Pokemon, nothing will threaten Nintendo's existence.
And you're saying that as if taking away those exclusive would threaten Nintendo's existence. It's not that simple either.

As others have repeatedly pointed out, many of us would rather not do our hardcore gaming on our iPhones.
 
people also forget that the average consumers rarely if ever spends more than $10 on an app. I assume Apple is heavily subsidizing the costs because I doubt many are going to buy these games which are much more expensive than that price

the iphone market needs a massive shift against what they have been conditioned to for the entire lifespan if they wanna start selling premium games
 
If you want to know more and why the PC market shaped to be like what it is now, this Anandtech article from more than a decade ago is an excellent read:


TLDR: Nvidia and Intel fought regarding Nvidja rights to make Intel motherboards chipsets and about Nvidia having the capability to create an x86 processor (Nvidia does hold some x86 patents from their acquisitions). Ultimately, it was settled that Nvidia couldn't create an x86 processor nor x86 emulator but, in exchange, Nvidia got a welthy sum of money (Quite a lot of money for the size Nvidia was back then).

It was one of the reasons Nvidia kept investing heavily into Arm ecosystem and why Nvidia can't create an Nvidia x86 CPU + GPU SoC/APU.

Another problem is that PC games are made with x86 in mind and nothing else. And Windows on Arm is still in a terrible state, with the Windows x86 application emulator being very meh.

However, Nvidia is rumored to be working on a Arm SoC for a Microsoft Surface product scheduled for 2025. So we might get to see a heavier push and investment into Windows on Arm and, with Nvidia expertise and GPU IP, perhaps PC Games finally being playable on Arm devices. Nvidia did a demo back then that might be a taste of what a ISA agnostic PC Gaming future might shape to be:

Fantastic, thank you. Much appreciated, both the link and the summary. That's some really interesting history and given where Nvidia is today, especially when looking at their development in AI, I wonder if that did then a favour. Either way, a little bit wiser and very excited to see what will come out of this partnership of Nintendo and Nvidia.
 
iPhone being able to run RE4R, RE Village, AC Mirage, Death Stranding, literally killed the arguments from yesterday elsewhere that mobile tech couldn't reach PS4 or above performance hahaha.
Tbh, having those AAAs ported to a ARM device will help Nintendo more than anything
Also, the price tag and not-for-children thing for iPhone 15 Pro don't make them an imminent threat to Nintendo
Y'all we gotta chill up in here, these should be our takeaways from the iPhone news...that it's actually gonna be good for Switch 2!

We don't have to compare two devices that are in completely different markets and we should celebrate the fact that mobile tech is getting better and better every day and that this means that we're practically bound to get better 3rd party support for Switch 2 (which might just a bonus in addition to what Nintendo can offer with the new Switch)
 
Well, when the best game on the iPhone was Candy Crush it really was a joke. But now we're talking about RE 4 Remake, one of the biggest releases of the year, running on a smartphone, this is unprecedented.
And it'll impact nothing lmao.

I swear so many of these comments are concern trolling. I don't think people understand what the gaming industry looks like on the phone nowadays lmao.
 
Please read this staff post before posting.

Furthermore, according to this follow-up post, all off-topic chat will be moderated.
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