StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

[Ashee]

Regarding the showcases anyone can make that claim unless this person is known to be a trusted insider? and in regards to the hardware did i miss something where Nintendo said no new hardware this year??

Nintendo didnt say that they wouldnt release something this year but at the same time they never said they would.... so we are like last month, we have no idea whats going to happen

 

[Instro]

New hardware for some, miniature American flags for others.

 

[Dakhil]

4060TI has really low cache though, so its hit rate is pretty poor relative to its GPU size and it’ll depend more on the GDDR memory. 4090 has a gargantuan cache that enables it to have a much better hit rate.

For a product like Redacted, more tiers of cache can help over a larger cache setup at reducing the bandwidth requirements. But also helping it manage the latency better.


The PS5 is only RDNA1 with RT so it was already going to be in the basis of RDNA 1 development, likewise for SX/S but more RDNA2 added.

I'm interested to see how Drake's GPU having 1 MB of L2 cache affects game development.

---

MediaTek Partners With NVIDIA to Provide Full-Scale Product Roadmap to

MediaTek Partners With NVIDIA to Provide Full-Scale Product Roadmap to the Automotive Industry

corp.mediatek.com

Although this is not directly related to Nintendo, thinking more about this, assuming there's grains of truth to Qualcomm's claims in Qualcomm's countersuit to Arm's lawsuit that Arm isn't allowing Cortex licensees to design Arm based SoCs with a mix of Arm's IPs and non-Arm IPs starting in 2024, I think what Mediatek's doing is pretty clever. Mediatek's SoC, which I presume has most of, if not all of, Arm's IP, is one chiplet And Nvidia's GPU is another chiplet. And those chiplets are connected in a similar manner to the Grace Hopper Superchip.

However, chiplets currently require a higher power consumption and has higher latency than monolithic chips. So chiplets are currently not a viable option for Nintendo.

 

[Hermii]

I'm interested to see how Drake's GPU having 1 MB of L2 cache affects game development.

---

This may have been further evidenced later, but the post you're quoting is far from conclusive.

 

[MadMarvainy]

It's super bare bones and bland. I'd much rather Wii U's stylistic look. Even Wii's.

Much faster and to the point than both of those which is all I care about.

Function over everything, I do not think Wii interface has aged well at all.

Much better shops on Wii Wii U though..

 

[TLZ]

Much faster and to the point than both of those which is all I care about.

Function over everything, I do not think Wii interface has aged well at all.

Much better shops on Wii Wii U though..

The current eshop is something else..

 

[bixente]

The current eshop is something else..

Indeed. Given Nintendo prioritised speed/ease of access with the OS, I'm surprised nothing has been done with the eshop. If anything it's gotten worse.

 

[ziggyrivers]

I mean, at some point they will announce something for the 2H. But a digital event could be anything. A Direct, a Treehouse, another MP4 delay announcement. They could also repeat TotK's 10 minute gameplay showcase but this time with Pikmin 4. It's cool he's got "sources", but when the basic reaction is "and?" was it really necessary to tweet it out? Free and easy engagement I guess.

It’d be veeery underwhelming and left curve if the next announcement ends up being a Pikmin Direct, lmaoo. But if there’s a June Direct, it won’t be Pikmin themed. The game release July 21st.

I don't really put much stock in the new hardware reveal being in a Direct.

I think the consensus is that the successor will either be:
• The “one more thing” from the next Direct;
• Teaser first, Direct with crossgen content later

Not to dive to deep into the Nintendo DMCA to Valve story but the timing is pretty interesting since the Steam Deck running Dolphin emulated games in of itself represents the marketing and selling point of the space where Redacted will occupy...

As others have mentioned I'm sure Nintendo hearing stories of their most recent masterpiece TotK being emulated on day 1 was just salt in the wound of whatever marketing strategies they have been coming up with to sell Redacted once its released.

Yup, especially if they plan to further expand the Switch Online Subscription with GameCube titles, which is maybe why we haven’t gotten a WWHD/TPHD Remaster re-release as individual or combo package: new generation of hardware means new generation of content in the Subscription, this time, the GameCube’s turn.

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

Yup, especially if they plan to further expand the Switch Online Subscription with GameCube titles, which is maybe why we haven’t gotten a WWHD/TPHD Remaster re-release as individual or combo package: new generation of hardware means new generation of content in the Subscription, this time, the GameCube’s turn.

I think it’s more to do with the file size.

Those are really big…. Vs the current ones that are much much smaller.


Though I’ve been wondering about compressing them into oblivion and making use of Drake’s hardware on the fly

Just a fun thought.

 

[NateDrake]

Ethan Gach is Kotaku's senior editor.

Good we got confirmation that Directs haven't been cancelled in 2023.

 

[Concernt]

What if, instead of "analogue triggers", they go with pressure sensitive, capacitive L and R buttons?

Hear me out.

It's really not easy to fit modern analogue triggers in a controller the size of Joy-Con. But what if they didn't have to?

See, the next device is certainly backwards compatible. A lot of games played on it, I would wager, will be Switch games for some time while the generation winds up. Introducing analogue triggers into that wouldn't be ideal. Especially for a shooter like Splatoon 3, it would at times be a DISADVANTAGE.

So, what to do? Well, the Wii Classic Controller (and the GameCube, but those were more like triggers) had ANALOGUE shoulder buttons! Now, what about size considerations?

Pressure. Sensitive. Capacitance. Capacitive surface allowing you to use them like scroll wheels to swipe through an inventory (I swear the Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom quick select menues feel like they were born out of cancelled scroll wheel shoulder buttons). Pressure sensor instead of a potentiometer. So it doesn't have to deal with the size a scroll wheel or a depression for the button to descend into.

You touch it lightly, it senses it. Push the button in, that's another input. Touch and swipe to do one thing, push and swipe to do another. Push the button in and keep pushing until the controller vibrates, and from that bottom out of the sensor to the lightest touch is your "range of motion". A huge PERCEIVED range of motion but with very, very little space taken up; while keeping the triggers digital for stuff like shooters.

 

[ILikeFeet]

What if, instead of "analogue triggers", they go with pressure sensitive, capacitive L and R buttons?

Hear me out.

It's really not easy to fit modern analogue triggers in a controller the size of Joy-Con. But what if they didn't have to?

See, the next device is certainly backwards compatible. A lot of games played on it, I would wager, will be Switch games for some time while the generation winds up. Introducing analogue triggers into that wouldn't be ideal. Especially for a shooter like Splatoon 3, it would at times be a DISADVANTAGE.

So, what to do? Well, the Wii Classic Controller (and the GameCube, but those were more like triggers) had ANALOGUE shoulder buttons! Now, what about size considerations?

Pressure. Sensitive. Capacitance. Capacitive surface allowing you to use them like scroll wheels to swipe through an inventory (I swear the Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom quick select menues feel like they were born out of cancelled scroll wheel shoulder buttons). Pressure sensor instead of a potentiometer. So it doesn't have to deal with the size a scroll wheel or a depression for the button to descend into.

You touch it lightly, it senses it. Push the button in, that's another input. Touch and swipe to do one thing, push and swipe to do another. Push the button in and keep pushing until the controller vibrates, and from that bottom out of the sensor to the lightest touch is your "range of motion". A huge PERCEIVED range of motion but with very, very little space taken up; while keeping the triggers digital for stuff like shooters.

how do you protect against accidental presses

 

[Concernt]

how do you protect against accidental presses

That's for the Devs to decide. If there's an input there that's a problem, don't make it react to a light touch. The "default" press would still be the current "press in", just with the option to detect a light touch. Say a racing game where you wanna just inch forward, the Xbox Series X has a controller with a super sensitive trigger, the slightest bit of pressure and it registers an input. This is a way to replicate that response, if Devs want to, in a smaller package.

 

[undefined]

What if, instead of "analogue triggers", they go with pressure sensitive, capacitive L and R buttons?

This reminds me that I once thought my PS2 controller was faulty because on a racing game the car wasn't accelerating properly, then I noticed the game could detect how much force I was using to press the X button

Seems like pressure-sensitive face buttons got removed on PS4 onwards

 

[Terrell]

This reminds me that I once thought my PS2 controller was faulty because on a racing game the car wasn't accelerating properly, then I noticed the game could detect how much force I was using to press the X button

Seems like pressure-sensitive face buttons got removed on PS4 onwards

It’s because they’re finicky and the user can’t determine what the adequate pressure is to use because the differences between are near imperceptible. They are basically only useful to give one button 2 different inputs, anything more complex than that and it’s a disaster.

 

[lattjeful]

What if, instead of "analogue triggers", they go with pressure sensitive, capacitive L and R buttons?

Hear me out.

It's really not easy to fit modern analogue triggers in a controller the size of Joy-Con. But what if they didn't have to?

See, the next device is certainly backwards compatible. A lot of games played on it, I would wager, will be Switch games for some time while the generation winds up. Introducing analogue triggers into that wouldn't be ideal. Especially for a shooter like Splatoon 3, it would at times be a DISADVANTAGE.

So, what to do? Well, the Wii Classic Controller (and the GameCube, but those were more like triggers) had ANALOGUE shoulder buttons! Now, what about size considerations?

Pressure. Sensitive. Capacitance. Capacitive surface allowing you to use them like scroll wheels to swipe through an inventory (I swear the Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom quick select menues feel like they were born out of cancelled scroll wheel shoulder buttons). Pressure sensor instead of a potentiometer. So it doesn't have to deal with the size a scroll wheel or a depression for the button to descend into.

You touch it lightly, it senses it. Push the button in, that's another input. Touch and swipe to do one thing, push and swipe to do another. Push the button in and keep pushing until the controller vibrates, and from that bottom out of the sensor to the lightest touch is your "range of motion". A huge PERCEIVED range of motion but with very, very little space taken up; while keeping the triggers digital for stuff like shooters.

This sounds like a good idea on paper, but I'm not sure it'll work in practice. If it's pressure sensitive, how do you determine feedback? With an analog trigger, it's easy to feel how far you've pressed down; you can see and feel how much travel the trigger/button has left. Pressure sensitive will still feel like a digital button, no? It's either on or off.

Idk it's a rad idea, but I think there's a reason the PS2 pressure sensitive face buttons never came back.

 

[Concernt]

This sounds like a good idea on paper, but I'm not sure it'll work in practice. If it's pressure sensitive, how do you determine feedback? With an analog trigger, it's easy to feel how far you've pressed down; you can see and feel how much travel the trigger/button has left. Pressure sensitive will still feel like a digital button, no? It's either on or off.

Idk it's a rad idea, but I think there's a reason the PS2 pressure sensitive face buttons never came back.

I think the three main levels would be pretty intuitive, touch, press and bottom out. For the range in between, developers could choose to use rumble as an indicator (something Xbox has been doing for years alongside having travel, since the small adjustments are imperceptible without the rumble to accompany them).

I'd also like to point out this is a problem faced by the MacBook trackpad since about 2016, since it's solid state but pressure sensitive. Thing is, the "Taptic" haptics of a MacBook trackpad and HD rumble are the same technology. It wouldn't require additional internal complexity to implement.

 

[BDGAME]

Ethan Gach is Kotaku's senior editor.

---

My prevision for what will happen

• June - Nintendo comments about a next gen machine, like they did with Nintendo NX
• July - Pikmin 4 release
• August - First mock video, without any game footage, name reveled
• September - Final MK8's DLC, symbolizing the finish line, or the end of switch
• October - First real video with games and release date to next year
• March - Release date. Expect to sell 3 millions, (so current switch + Switch 2 = 15M)

If not March, then April. That is my expectation from now on.

This means games will be announced to Switch and Switch Next. My bet is on Metroid Prime 4.

 

[eye0h]

 

[lattjeful]

I know things typically don't come of these shareholder meetings, but I think I'm gonna set June 23rd as my line in the sand. No announcement before then, and I'm moving to team Late 2024.

 

[AshiodyneFX]

any news or significant speculation lately?

 

[Kazuyamishima]

That has nothing to do with what you said, you said "doesn't have much"

Did you not play BotW?

I did but I owned a Wii u

 

[ShadowFox08]

any news or significant speculation lately?

Nope.

 

[AshiodyneFX]

Nope.

slow couple months eh? oh well

 

[ertaboy356b]

This reminds me that I once thought my PS2 controller was faulty because on a racing game the car wasn't accelerating properly, then I noticed the game could detect how much force I was using to press the X button

Seems like pressure-sensitive face buttons got removed on PS4 onwards

PS1 era, my friend from highschool taught me tekken 3 but I could not understand it. He keep saying do soft press forward, like what the f*** is that .

 

[ertaboy356b]

This sounds like a good idea on paper, but I'm not sure it'll work in practice. If it's pressure sensitive, how do you determine feedback? With an analog trigger, it's easy to feel how far you've pressed down; you can see and feel how much travel the trigger/button has left. Pressure sensitive will still feel like a digital button, no? It's either on or off.

Idk it's a rad idea, but I think there's a reason the PS2 pressure sensitive face buttons never came back.

Maybe feedback can be done with HD Rumble.

 

[Deleted member 2]

I did but I owned a Wii u

You said "2017 didn't have much" which was my point... it had quite a bit

 

[Thombias]

I think it’s more to do with the file size.

Those are really big…. Vs the current ones that are much much smaller.


Though I’ve been wondering about compressing them into oblivion and making use of Drake’s hardware on the fly

Just a fun thought.

You might be onto something here. I don't know how possible this is, but considering the hardware decompression engine the next system will have, it may be. The games will need some time to be fully decompressed whenever you want to load into one though instead of the practically seamless transition from all the games we currently have on this service, no doubt about it.

 

[Pokemaniac]

I think it’s more to do with the file size.

Those are really big…. Vs the current ones that are much much smaller.


Though I’ve been wondering about compressing them into oblivion and making use of Drake’s hardware on the fly

Just a fun thought.

You might be onto something here. I don't know how possible this is, but considering the hardware decompression engine the next system will have, it may be. The games will need some time to be fully decompressed whenever you want to load into one though instead of the practically seamless transition from all the games we currently have on this service, no doubt about it.

Compression isn't magic. A GCN or Wii NSO app isn't going to suddenly become practical by applying compression.

 

[fiendcode]

What if, instead of "analogue triggers", they go with pressure sensitive, capacitive L and R buttons?

Hear me out.

It's really not easy to fit modern analogue triggers in a controller the size of Joy-Con. But what if they didn't have to?

See, the next device is certainly backwards compatible. A lot of games played on it, I would wager, will be Switch games for some time while the generation winds up. Introducing analogue triggers into that wouldn't be ideal. Especially for a shooter like Splatoon 3, it would at times be a DISADVANTAGE.

So, what to do? Well, the Wii Classic Controller (and the GameCube, but those were more like triggers) had ANALOGUE shoulder buttons! Now, what about size considerations?

Pressure. Sensitive. Capacitance. Capacitive surface allowing you to use them like scroll wheels to swipe through an inventory (I swear the Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom quick select menues feel like they were born out of cancelled scroll wheel shoulder buttons). Pressure sensor instead of a potentiometer. So it doesn't have to deal with the size a scroll wheel or a depression for the button to descend into.

You touch it lightly, it senses it. Push the button in, that's another input. Touch and swipe to do one thing, push and swipe to do another. Push the button in and keep pushing until the controller vibrates, and from that bottom out of the sensor to the lightest touch is your "range of motion". A huge PERCEIVED range of motion but with very, very little space taken up; while keeping the triggers digital for stuff like shooters.

No, I still want analog shoulder scroll wheels with a digital button click. It'd work so well for do many games and could be really versatile.

Keep digital triggers too.

 

[ShadowFox08]

slow couple months eh? oh well

Yeah. Nothing new for Drake/Switch 2. Some people think it will be released in 2024, but there's no confirmation or deconformation from Nintendo that there will be a 2023 release.

 

[LinkURL]

No, I still want analog shoulder scroll wheels with a digital button click. It'd work so well for do many games and could be really versatile.

Keep digital triggers too.

I think scroll buttons would be a bad idea, most games won't be made with that in mind, imagine playing an online fighting game, but you should avoid clicking L and R because they turned the buttons into a gimmick that made them extremely unstable. It must be really bad that you just want to click a button, but feel that at any moment it might slip under your finger.

 

[Concernt]

No, I still want analog shoulder scroll wheels with a digital button click. It'd work so well for do many games and could be really versatile.

Keep digital triggers too.

That would be clunky and literally too big to fit in a Joy-Con.

 

[Dakhil]

 

[Hermii]

So in other words, they dont qualify with Samsung, which means Drake is definitely not on Samsung.

Confirmation bias speaking.

 

[lattjeful]

So in other words, they dont qualify with Samsung, which means Drake is definitely not on Samsung.

Confirmation bias speaking.

I wouldn't complain

 

[fwd-bwd]

I’m traveling so this is a quick update. Hopefully others can give a more detailed analysis. The FY03/2023 inventory numbers have been released (consolidated balance sheet):

Raw materials and supplies, 75,637 million yen
Work in progress, 153 million yen
Finished goods, 182,837 million yen
Total inventories, 258,627 million yen
Ratio of raw materials and supplies, 29.25%
(The number of finished goods includes a write-down of 16,909 million yen)

Here’s the table I made last year:

(Unit: 1 million yen)

The valuation of raw materials decreased substantially from the heights of 09/2021 to 09/2022, but is still relatively high compared to previous years. On the other hand, the valuation of finished goods is unusually high for a March (September numbers are typically higher due to the upcoming holiday sales), possibly in anticipation of a sales boost from the TotK and Mario Movie.

 

[kasparov77]

Here's why I think we haven't had any more leaks:

Nintendo's probably doing the same

 

[Thraktor]

I’m traveling so this is a quick update. Hopefully others can give a more detailed analysis. The FY03/2023 inventory numbers have been released (consolidated balance sheet):

Raw materials and supplies, 75,637 million yen
Work in progress, 153 million yen
Finished goods, 182,837 million yen
Total inventories, 258,627 million yen
Ratio of raw materials and supplies, 29.25%
(The number of finished goods includes a write-down of 16,909 million yen)

Here’s the table I made last year:

(Unit: 1 million yen)

The valuation of raw materials decreased substantially from the heights of 09/2021 to 09/2022, but is still relatively high compared to previous years. On the other hand, the valuation of finished goods is unusually high for a March (September numbers are typically higher due to the upcoming holiday sales), possibly in anticipation of a sales boost from the TotK and Mario Movie.

I think one of Furukawa's answers from the recent investor Q&A may shed some light on this. In response to question 5, he stated the following (emphasis mine):

With regard to hardware, prices for certain materials have fallen but overall costs remain high. We must also continue to account for the impact of factors such as inflation and foreign exchange rates. Production was highly impacted during the previous fiscal year (ended March 31, 2023), so we are ensuring our parts procurement occurs far enough in advance to ensure stable production. Even if raw material prices decrease, it will take time for this to be reflected in manufacturing costs. Currently, there are no plans to reduce the price of our hardware during this fiscal year. On the other hand, while we also have no plans to raise prices, the yen continues to be weak, and procurement costs remain high, so we will continue to monitor the situation carefully.

It sounds like they were stockpiling parts as a way to manage the supply issues over the past couple of years. Parts availability should have improved substantially over the past six months or so, which would explain why raw materials have dropped so much since the last reporting period, as they transition back to a shorter gap between procurement and manufacturing.

 

[Mobius]

Here's why I think we haven't had any more leaks:

Nintendo's probably doing the same

Starfox Grand Prix moment

 

[ILikeFeet]

ARM talkin all this shit about UE5's main renderer for mobile with a tech demo but still hasn't shown said demo

why are mobile companies so shit with gpu marketing?

 

[fiendcode]

I think scroll buttons would be a bad idea, most games won't be made with that in mind, imagine playing an online fighting game, but you should avoid clicking L and R because they turned the buttons into a gimmick that made them extremely unstable. It must be really bad that you just want to click a button, but feel that at any moment it might slip under your finger.

It'd depend on implementation. Games (like Street Fighter for example) that still just wanted a digital button could have that though and not register the scroll, nothings needs to be "unstable".

Improving haptics could also give the scroll wheel "clicks" and feedback as it moves, there are a lot of great implementations I could see. It'd be amazing for quick item selection in games like Zelda or Monster Hunter.

That would be clunky and literally too big to fit in a Joy-Con.

Footprint could be an issue but that's going to be the case for any analog implementation and also improvements in other areas (battery, haptics, etc). A change in footprint for Joy-con 2 might be in order anyway.

 

[John Omaha]

It'd depend on implementation. Games (like Street Fighter for example) that still just wanted a digital button could have that though and not register the scroll, nothings needs to be "unstable".

Improving haptics could also give the scroll wheel "clicks" and feedback as it moves, there are a lot of great implementations I could see. It'd be amazing for quick item selection in games like Zelda or Monster Hunter.

You could also lock the scrolling mechanism for certain games.

 

[Concernt]

You could also lock the scrolling mechanism for certain games.

Added complexity, added bulk, added cost.

 

[Bonejack]

Ohhh what's this smell? Is that ... Scrollwheel-Shoulderbuttons talk in here?

 

[ILikeFeet]

Ohhh what's this smell? Is that ... Scrollwheel-Shoulderbuttons talk in here?

if it makes that clicking sound like pc mice do, I'd be in sensory heaven

 

[MP!]

The scroll sensation could be like apple's "Taptic" feedback and the actual button press could be a real button.
or the other way around.
Or whatever.
Personally I'd love scroll wheel L & R buttons... and some sort of analogish ZL and ZR buttons... (if it's actual analogue or simulated by other tech I'd be fine with that)
And I really hope they can improve HD rumble a bit.

 

[Armoured_Bear]

And I really hope they can improve HD rumble a bit.

Me too, the Dualsense rumble is miles ahead and what HD Rumble was supposed to be.

 

[D36]

Me too, the Dualsense rumble is miles ahead and what HD Rumble was supposed to be.

How many games are there that even took advantage of HD Rumble? Because the only one I can think of is that one Senran Kagura game. Iykyk

 

[KeijiKG]

I think the consensus is that the successor will either be:
• The “one more thing” from the next Direct;
• Teaser first, Direct with crossgen content later

I mean the Switch was revealed and talked about for a non-Direct for its debut, and Nintendo does have announcement events that aren't Directs. That's all I'm saying.