StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

[Deleted member 645]

Been thinking about this console. For me it comes down to software. Maybe my gaming preferences have changed. I will not purchase a console because it can deliver 4K. I have a Series X and PS5 sitting collecting dust. The launch software lineup will determine my purchase. I assume there will be a new Mario, Metroid Prime, and performance/visual updated re-releases. Hopefully we get some third party ip’s that weren’t on the original switch.

 

[invwar]

Pretty realistic, considering it may not be that late in the production cycle.

Also for team 2023? I would expect they would have settled by end of March for that then. Team 2024 (so FY2025) would be definitely fine.

 

[Hermii]

Also for team 2023? I would expect they would have settled by end of March for that then. Team 2024 (so FY2025) would be definitely fine.

Is anyone still on team 2023?

 

[BloodMoon]

When?
They don't use it at all, now,
It's starter, main course and dessert.

Posho, that’s pudding to me

 

[Armoured_Bear]

Posho, that’s pudding to me

Northerner Alert!

 

[KeijiKG]

Still bedfellows to this day.
I suppose they do owe their lives to SHARP in a sense.

 

[majimazio]

Is it possible to achieve a slimmer bezel like the Switch OLED with the new LCD technology?
The 6.2" LCD OG Switch seems ugly now.

 

[ziggyrivers]

Is it possible to achieve a slimmer bezel like the Switch OLED with the new LCD technology?
The 6.2" LCD OG Switch seems ugly now.

I believe so. Macbooks were LCD before going Mini LED and those bezels were small

 

[D36]

Is anyone still on team 2023?

I am and I still think it's on the table. Nothing from the past few months has really changed that.

 

[BloodMoon]

Northerner Alert!

Haha I’m very much not!

I’m so southern that anything north of Watford is t’North

 

[Erathix]

Is anyone still on team 2023?

I already wrote my magnum opus addressing this earlier so raises hand.

Team 2023 or bust.

 

[TSR3]

I am and I still think it's on the table. Nothing from the past few months has really changed that.

Agree. I see nothing in the translations so far of the report and q&a to change my view yet (and I don’t see anything that would knock #Team2024 either). Specifically re RAM upgrades, the prices have been falling for a while, and IIRC the PS4 got a late RAM upgrade late in the day

 

[pelusilla6]

Quoting Tom

...

Another possibility is that Sharp could be supplying the LCD screens for the new PlayStation handheld named the “Q Lite”. Exclusively reported by Insider Gaming at the beginning of April, the Q Lite is an accessory to the PlayStation 5, allowing players to play games with the handheld device via Remote Play. Prototypes of the Q Lite show that the device will feature a massive 8-inch LCD touchscreen in the center of essentially a DualSense controller.T

That being said, it’s also entirely possible that the LCD screen is for something entirely different and yet unannounced.

I think Mochi has not given those last reports a second thought tbh :O

 

[Goodtwin]

Is anyone still on team 2023?

Not writing it off until I see the second half software lineup. It is still very suspicious to me that they are being secretive about software for a console in its seventh year on the market. Especially with rumored titles like F-Zero GX and a Paper Mario remaster. Not exactly huge hitters. Nintendo has stated they they want to keep players engaged with their Switch, and with Zelda TotK releasing tomorrow, this will be at an all time high for the next month or two, but after that it will take a variety of new titles consistently releasing to keep players engaged. Im super hyped for Prime 4, but even that has limited appeal compared to a Mario or Zelda game. Maybe they have a new Donkey Kong Country and 2D Mario ready to go for the second half along with Prime 4 a few remasters?

We are getting some conflicting hardware production rumors. Some make it seem like production is preparing to ramp up here in the coming months, and then other comments reflect a product that is not finalized and is still in the R&D stage. Then we have the Pokemon leaker who was 100% correct on all the Pokemon details, and said a patch was being prepared for the new hardware and would roll out with the second wave of DLC. Details surrounding the Switch Lite and OLED models were kept under wraps until a few months before release, so I see no reason why a November release for Redacted is ruled out at this point.

 

[TSR3]

If this is accurate, then the Redacted is launch mid/late 2024.

Where did you see that in the Bloomberg story? I just read it and couldn’t see anything about dates beyond this fiscal year

 

[Giancarlo]

I was thinking maybe a dual release from the get go if Nintendo want to hit a low price point for Switch and still have a premium option.

So
Switch 2 - LCD Screen and 128GB
Switch 2 OLED - OLED Screen and 256GB


Then later down the line when they manage to shrink the chip we can get
Switch 2 V2 which would replace Switch 2
Switch 2 OLED V2 which would replace Switch 2 OLED
Switch 2 Lite

wont this make casual players confusing?

 

[Deleted member 887]

Re: Screen

Considering Mochi's track record over the last few years with Nintendo related reporting, I wouldn't read anything into the references to Nintendo in the article. If Mochi had anything to hint that it was Nintendo, he'd say so. It's not a "hint" from an "insider", it's speculation from an analyst.

It would be one thing if we didn't live in the era of every single major hardware vendor trying a new handheld and/or VR console, but we're in a period of experimentation in the embedded console space.

It seems like Sharp added a reference to a project in order to shore up confidence in a otherwise dreary financial report, and got bit by it, as they've removed the references since.

 

[Giancarlo]

I am and I still think it's on the table. Nothing from the past few months has really changed that.

i believe is more likely for the Switch sucessor to release next year(problaby on next spring, march/april at the earlest, holiday 2024 at the lastest)

 

[Dakhil]

The article doesn't seem to be based just on the slide, but also comments made by the CEO Robert Wu on an investor call. The article is reprinted here on Yahoo Finance, and quotes Wu directly:

“I can’t comment on any details regarding specific customers. But as to a new gaming console, we’ve been involved in its R&D stage,” Wu told analysts on a call after releasing quarterly earnings.

Maybe some more transcripts to wait for alongside the English translation of Nintendo's?

Edit: Also, the mini LED talk is just speculation here on this thread. There's no comment on it in the article.

Yahoo! re-uploaded the Bloomberg article.

---

But speaking about the Bloomberg article, I do wonder if Sharp's providing LCD displays for a Lite model equipped with Drake.

 

[ziggyrivers]

I see nothing in the translations so far of the report and q&a to change my view yet

Has the official one come out?

Re: Screen

Considering Mochi's track record over the last few years with Nintendo related reporting, I wouldn't read anything into the references to Nintendo in the article. If Mochi had anything to hint that it was Nintendo, he'd say so. It's not a "hint" from an "insider", it's speculation from an analyst.

It would be one thing if we didn't live in the era of every single major hardware vendor trying a new handheld and/or VR console, but we're in a period of experimentation in the embedded console space.

It seems like Sharp added a reference to a project in order to shore up confidence in a otherwise dreary financial report, and got bit by it, as they've removed the references since.

Thanks for the headsup, oldpuck

 

[ILikeFeet]

Could the extra RAM be for the possible upres AI Nintendo has been working on (from patents)?

would be pretty unnecessary. you're not doing training on this device or anything. if you don't have room for a 4K image, there's a lot of intermediary sizes they could go with instead. it's not like Nintendo cares that much about hitting certain output resolutions

 

[TSR3]

Has the official one come out?

I edited my comment to add 'so far' a short while (I thought it was seconds) after the initial post. Meaning the translations posted on this thread. You must have quoted me faster than I could edit!

 

[ShadowFox08]

16GBLPDDR5+256GB eMMC would be... Extremely welcome.

I'd rather have 12GB LPDDR5X with 134 GB/s and 256 GB UFS 3.0/3.1 storage.

Although it doesn't hurt, I don't think Drake needs 16GB. It's in a better position RAM wise for games vs last gen and X series S, . Bigger bottleneck would be bandwidth.

Fast storage speeds is a no brainier for me. Orion supports UFS 3.

Now whether it's more or less likely than 16GB + eMMC storage is another story altogether of course. We'll see if the memory controller supports 5x. I'm not expecting it. Would be disappointed we don't get UFS storage though.

 

[ShaunSwitch]

Is anyone still on team 2023?

I'm 50/50 on 2023/2024 right now. Seen nothing that convinces me either is more likely other than how damn quiet H2 2023 is looking.

If there's nothing from Nintendo by end of June I'll lean more towards 2024.

 

[Dakhil]

Screen downgrade confirmed.

money is on this Sharp news actually being the panel for Switch 2 and is the Mini-LED thing rumoured years ago coming to fruition. there must be a good reason they're going with the display tech over OLED, will have to read up about the pros and cons. 1080p also becomes increasingly possible if not probable the longer we go on.

I think there's a possibility Sharp could be providing LCD displays for a Lite model equipped with Drake. I also think there's a possibility Nintendo wants to continue providing an affordable model once the Nintendo Switch (2019), the Nintendo Switch Lite, and the OLED model are discontinued. And I think LCD displays could be cheaper than OLED displays at a screen size <6".

 

[MrBones]

2016: To be fair, there wasn't much to show outside of 3DS titles and Breath of the Wild. Seems like they were preparing for the Switch, in retrospect.

2020: Covid, nuff said

2022: If you don't count the Partner Showcase, like I do, then I'll give you that, but I doubt they'd do it again. I expect them to announce more first-party titles, as we don't know much outside of Pikmin 4.

COVID only works so far as an excuse. Even without it it still would have been a terrible year 1st party lineup wise. Wouldn't have surprised me if they skipped 2020 E3 during a normal year.

There's a lot of parallels between 2016 and now. I don't think Nintendo has much to show this year besides TOTK and Pikmin 4, they're fully gearing up for the Switch 2.

 

[Giancarlo]

COVID only works so far as an excuse. Even without it it still would have been a terrible year 1st party lineup wise. Wouldn't have surprised me if they skipped 2020 E3 during a normal year.

There's a lot of parallels between 2016 and now. I don't think Nintendo has much to show this year besides TOTK and BOTW, they're fully gearing up for the Switch 2.

Nintendo has still not released Metroid Prime 4, the game could be the final major release for Nintendo Switch that end the Switch era

 

[D36]

COVID only works so far as an excuse. Even without it it still would have been a terrible year 1st party lineup wise. Wouldn't have surprised me if they skipped 2020 E3 during a normal year.

There's a lot of parallels between 2016 and now. I don't think Nintendo has much to show this year besides TOTK and BOTW, they're fully gearing up for the Switch 2.

Covid works because it throttled nearly every industry across the world as well as our way of life in ways that will still linger for years to come; excuse hardly applies.

The parallels with 2016, I feel don't apply as much, since that was during the end of the Wii U era; we are in a very different place from back then. It makes no sense for Nintendo to have so little for this year outside of Zelda. TotK and DLC simply won't be enough to bring in even 10 million units, let alone 15 million. Not to mention that you can still gear up for your next hardware while still bolstering old hardware, it's what Sony did for the first few years of the PS5 and I see Nintendo doing the same, regardless of whether or not they've done so before.

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

dram and nand just keeps tumbling. given how late these can be changed, maybe Nintendo can get 16GB and 256GB combos

DRAMeXchange - 【Market View】DRAM and NAND Flash Prices Expected to Fall Further in 2Q23 Due to Weak Server Shipments and High Inventory Levels, Says TrendForce

DRAM, NAND Flash, SSD, Module and Memory card, and provides market research on spot and contract prices, daily news, market views and reports, and monthly datasheets of semiconductor industry.集邦科技

www.dramexchange.com

UFS down 10-15%
Mobile DRAM down 13-18%

When?
They don't use it at all, now,
It's starter, main course and dessert.

They don’t use Appetizer, Entree and dessert? TIL

Could the extra RAM be for the possible upres AI Nintendo has been working on (from patents)?

I mean, it would allow better usage of resources for DLSS, Textures, RT BVH, etc as Nintendo doesn’t use a lot from the OS compared to the other two.

Microsoft uses 2.5GB for the OS leaving only 13.5 and 7.5GB for games on the Series X and Series S respectively.


They can get more but that would require straight up disabling features and it’s only a few hundred megabytes.


PS5 uses 12.5GB of the 16GB it has for gaming (at launch anyway)

Per Dictator from DF (aka Alex), the PS5 and Series X sees 10GB from their respective pools at the most for GPU related tasks. Meaning, out of the 12.5 and 13.5GB respectively, the GPU would use at most 10GB for just GPU tasks.




Though, if Drake had say, 16GB of memory and only used 1-2GB for OS tasks, meaning 14-15GB for games, it would be an interesting choice. Probably overkill for a device like this, but devs complain about lack of memory sometimes(I’m lying, they always want more).

Should make ports easier though, even if slightly.

This is at the detriment to current PC though for other reasons.

 

[ronf]

I'm not aware of any mini LED screens in the ~7" size range, though, with the smallest being almost 4x as large (the 12.9" iPad Pro).

Being a VR nerd, I do happen to be aware of at least a couple devices that use very small miniLED displays (the Varjo Aero in October 2021 and the Meta Quest Pro in October 2022). Here is a comparison between OLED and miniLED tech with local dimming - shout out to SadlyItsBradley on Twitter. Needless to say, miniLED displays in an even smaller form factor than the current Switch have already been mass produced for multiple products.

The difference between a standard LCD display with an LED backlight from the last decade and an LCD with miniLED local dimming is actually pretty stark, so I wouldn't be too worried about the fact that the Sharp report mentions LCD. While minLED doesn't have per-pixel backlight control like OLED, it can actually get a lot brighter than OLED without burn-in issues due to being inorganic tech (vs the organic "O" in "OLED" that makes them much more susceptible to degradation over time) which can have ramifications for possible HDR capabilities.

 

[Foltzie]

When?
They don't use it at all, now,
It's starter, main course and dessert.

At least in the 1900s "entree" was used in the UK to refer to the course before the main course, usually a roasted meat. That carried over to the US, but since roast meat was more rare (as was 5+ course meals generally), entree became the main course for many folks, so the words use/definition followed.

I wanted to quote Eddie Izzard's UK's transition from French to English bit "Is this a male fork or a female fork?", "Its a fucking fork!", but alas I cannot find a transcript.

Im happy this thread has taken a trip into NPR A Way With Words territory.

 

[Concernt]

I'd rather have 12GB LPDDR5X with 134 GB/s and 256 GB UFS 3.0/3.1 storage.

Although it doesn't hurt, I don't think Drake needs 16GB. It's in a better position RAM wise for games vs last gen and X series S, . Bigger bottleneck would be bandwidth.

Fast storage speeds is a no brainier for me. Orion supports UFS 3.

Now whether it's more or less likely than 16GB + eMMC storage is another story altogether of course. We'll see if the memory controller supports 5x. I'm not expecting it. Would be disappointed we don't get UFS storage though.

Fast storage isn't a no brainer in a world where SD cards faster than UHS-1 and UFS card are all... limited in availability. At best. While UFS+UFS Card+Super Fast Game Cards sure would be nice, I don't see a world where they get them all working nice, and more important, get them all readily available at the same time.

I would in no way sacrifice mandatory installs for better loading speeds. I doubt Nintendo would, either.

 

[Concernt]

How realistic would it be to add an extra 4 GB of RAM this late (supposedly) in the production cycle, though?

Unless literal final production has begun, pretty realistic.

 

[Hosermess]

I think there's a possibility Sharp could be providing LCD displays for a Lite model equipped with Drake. I also think there's a possibility Nintendo wants to continue providing an affordable model once the Nintendo Switch (2019), the Nintendo Switch Lite, and the OLED model are discontinued. And I think LCD displays could be cheaper than OLED displays at a screen size <6".

The Lite only came about after the die shrink right? And the Switch seemed to be doing alright in the 2+ years before the Lite. Would Nintendo aim to release a Lite at the same time as the normal Drake model? I know you're not saying that. I mean, this could be for the Lite, and the Lite could be planned to be released some time after the Drake. I would assume the profit would be higher on the normal Drake vs the Drake Lite.

I only wrote this out cause your post made me wonder if Nintendo postponed Drake to a smaller node so they could have a Lite ready at release. Then I talked myself out of it (sort of).

 

[Dakhil]

So the Phawk did benchmarks comparisons between Van Gogh, the AMD Ryzen 6800U, and the AMD Ryzen 7840U.


And basically, Van Gogh outperforms the AMD Ryzen 6800U and the AMD Ryzen 7840U at TDPs ≤11 W. And the AMD Ryzen 6800U and the AMD Ryzen 7840U outperforms Van Gogh at TDPs >11 W.

So assuming the AMD Z1 Extreme is based on the AMD Ryzen 7840U, then the AMD Z1 Extreme doesn't seem like the best choice for hybrid consoles running on an OS that's not Microsoft Windows, at least to me.

I'm going to wait for a more thorough benchmarks comparisons video, but Linus Sebastian from Linus Tech Tips mentioned that the Steam Deck outperforms the Asus ROG Ally (the AMD Z1 Extreme model) at 10 W, but the Asus ROG Ally (the AMD Z1 Extreme model) outperforms the Steam Deck at 15 W. And the Steam Deck has a slight longer battery life than the Asus ROG Ally (the AMD Z1 Extreme model) at 10 W (6.5 hours vs 5.8 hours).


So far, the AMD Z1 Extreme seems to be performing very similarly to the AMD Ryzen 7840U. So the AMD Z1 Extreme so far doesn't seem like a viable option for hybrid consoles running an OS that's not Microsoft Windows, at least to me.

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

Fast storage isn't a no brainer in a world where SD cards faster than UHS-1 and UFS card are all... limited in availability. At best. While UFS+UFS Card+Super Fast Game Cards sure would be nice, I don't see a world where they get them all working nice, and more important, get them all readily available at the same time.

I would in no way sacrifice mandatory installs for better loading speeds. I doubt Nintendo would, either.

You keep mentioning this, but this sounds like something GPD or Aya Neo or even Valve to worry about.

Not Nintendo.

UFS is completely fine.

 

[Dakhil]

The Lite only came about after the die shrink right? And the Switch seemed to be doing alright in the 2+ years before the Lite. Would Nintendo aim to release a Lite at the same time as the normal Drake model? I know you're not saying that. I mean, this could be for the Lite, and the Lite could be planned to be released some time after the Drake. I would assume the profit would be higher on the normal Drake vs the Drake Lite.

I only wrote this out cause your post made me wonder if Nintendo postponed Drake to a smaller node so they could have a Lite ready at release. Then I talked myself out of it (sort of).

Yes. But I believe around a month after the Nintendo Switch (2019) was released.

And I imagine Nintendo wants to clear out inventory for the Nintendo Switch (2019), the Nintendo Switch Lite, and the OLED model before selling a Lite model equipped with Drake.

 

[ziggyrivers]

would be pretty unnecessary. you're not doing training on this device or anything. if you don't have room for a 4K image, there's a lot of intermediary sizes they could go with instead. it's not like Nintendo cares that much about hitting certain output resolutions

Ahh, thanks for the clarification!

I edited my comment to add 'so far' a short while (I thought it was seconds) after the initial post. Meaning the translations posted on this thread. You must have quoted me faster than I could edit!

Oh, LOL!

Yes. But I believe around a month after the Nintendo Switch (2019) was released.

And I imagine Nintendo wants to clear out inventory for the Nintendo Switch (2019), the Nintendo Switch Lite, and the OLED model before selling a Lite model equipped with Drake.

My sentiments exactly. We could get price reductions for the OG Switch lineup to clear out and release the Lite Drake

 

[MrBones]

Covid works because it throttled nearly every industry across the world as well as our way of life in ways that will still linger for years to come; excuse hardly applies.

The parallels with 2016, I feel don't apply as much, since that was during the end of the Wii U era; we are in a very different place from back then. It makes no sense for Nintendo to have so little for this year outside of Zelda. TotK and DLC simply won't be enough to bring in even 10 million units, let alone 15 million. Not to mention that you can still gear up for your next hardware while still bolstering old hardware, it's what Sony did for the first few years of the PS5 and I see Nintendo doing the same, regardless of whether or not they've done so before.

Without COVID how do you think Nintendo's 2020 would have gone?

TOK and AoC probably don't get Twitterdrop announcements. But what would get moved up from 2021 that would substantially improve that year's software lineup? It was gonna be weak regardless, to the point where they probably would've dipped out of E3 that year.

 

[jzero]

Don't have much more on them beyond knowledge that work remains active. Timing would be a pure guess.

I would personally love if MP 2 & 3 were shadowdropped on the next two Directs, leading to MP4 release date or window announcement.

 

[ziggyrivers]

Wow:

 

[Instro]

Wow:

Up 20% from the same period last year seems very... expected? I mean given the context anyway. It will be interesting to see how long the boost lasts.

 

[NateDrake]

Are they just ports, slight enhancements with modern controls or more of a prime remastered with overhauled graphics

Last I had heard, they were more basic in comparison; but that info is out of date. They could have evolved into something closer to Prime 1 but that is my own speculation.

Thanks Nate for the update.

If its ok/possible to say:

Does the development (or since they seem to be finished) according to Jeff Grubb for Wind Waker and TP continues for an release, do you have an update on this front too?

I do not.

 

[Foltzie]

You keep mentioning this, but this sounds like something GPD or Aya Neo or even Valve to worry about.

Not Nintendo.

UFS is completely fine.

Well the potential speed difference is a problem that Nintendo has to solve (or ignore) if they opt for UFS based storage and use the available speed increase. There are solutions of course, some more expensive, some less elegant for users.

 

[ziggyrivers]

Up 20% from the same period last year seems very... expected? I mean given the context anyway. It will be interesting to see how long the boost lasts.

Oh, I know. I just wasn’t expecting as many units of ZOLED

By the way, I think Nintendo has a very good ecosystem lineup for the future:
• Original unit
• More portable revision
• If Switch 2 comes with OLED:
— A model with double storage
• Like four, five themed consoles

 

[jzero]

questiom why is a $300 switch 2 out of the question, everyone here assumes it'll be 350 at the absolute minimum

Not really, I don't see it being cheaper than a steam deck. In fact, even if it's actually a sucessor, I think it'll have quite a few blurred lines in terms of generational leap (as in cross releases and such, pretty much as Xbox series and ps5 were)

 

[TomNookYankees]

16GBLPDDR5+256GB eMMC would be... Extremely welcome.

At this point I just hope certain third parties (such as Capcom) are pushing nintendo to include 16GB RAM and 256GB internal storage. Would go a long way towards ensuring it can get non-cloud versions of AAA third party titles.

 

[D36]

Without COVID how do you think Nintendo's 2020 would have gone?

TOK and AoC probably don't get Twitterdorp announcements. But what would get moved up from 2021 that would substantially improve that year's software lineup? It was gonna be weak regardless, to the point where they probably would've dipped out of E3 that year.

A few of the games that came out in 2021 would've came out the year before, for starters; Super Mario 3D World would have been the holiday release and Bravely Default 2 wouldn't have been delayed. Same goes for some of the 2H 2020 releases, Age of Calamity and Pikmin 3 Deluxe would have been released earlier. I highly doubt we would have gotten as many Twitter drops if the Pandemic didn't happen and many of these games, as well as 2021 games, would have been revealed in both a Summer and September Direct. Honestly, I don't think it would even matter if the lineup was improved or not (that's subjective, anyway), as long as there's something to show off and I see this year still being the case.

 

[ILikeFeet]

At this point I just hope certain third parties (such as Capcom) are pushing nintendo to include 16GB RAM and 256GB internal storage. Would go a long way towards ensuring it can get non-cloud versions of AAA third party titles.

if they can't get non-cloud versions on 12GB, then 16GB ain't gonna help

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

Well the potential speed difference is a problem that Nintendo has to solve (or ignore) if they opt for UFS based storage and use the available speed increase. There are solutions of course, some more expensive, some less elegant for users.

That’s not particularly what I’m focusing on or really getting at, what I’m focusing on really is that Nintendo has a size and scale that Eclipses all of these Portable Gaming PC manufactures combined, and they can make adoption for something like this, which is an open standard format, much easier.

And since it is a format that can allow for multiple manufacturers, such as SK Hynix, Samsung or even Micron or whoever else to make those, they can by themselves drive competition for this form of storage.


The fact that there are SD card readers that also can read UFS cards is already a big boost, that in and of itself can actually facilitate a more seamless transition (over generation) from one format to another.

The other option is CFExpress but that’s… well I think it isn’t compatible with the SD cards at all, and would require one extra slot maybe just for Micro SD cards.