StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but: do they have an option? When you depend on a supply chain to mass produce a product for a worldwide delivery, you can’t just blacklist a factory and go to another one. So a factory worker leaking a product wouldn’t have a dire consequence towards the company in general. Most certainly Nintendo would harass the factory to reprimand the worker and they’ll more than easily replace him. And probably factory uncles are being careful because the Switchccesor could be in test-production phase and only a select number of employees can participate in that, meaning the trail can be easily followed.

I think once the Switch 2 production enters in full force, we’ll be seeing more factory leaks, like how iPhones get factory leaks from screen molds and cover companies getting their phone covers leaked

I mean, yes, Nintendo has to work with some factories to produce Switch 2 units.

... But they also have to work with Ubisoft.

And Ubisoft probably leaks way more than Chinese factories do.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

What's your argument here, that Ubisoft isn't working on Switch 2 games right now?


Why would other people talking about things impact what you are allowed to enjoy?

I'm saying that if the Switch 2 was very close to release, a ton of Ubisoft devs would have Switch 2 dev kits and a lot of Switch 2 information, and as Ubisoft leaks constantly, we would have tons and tons of Switch 2 leaks right now.

So therefore the Switch 2 is probably not close to release currently.

 

[invwar]

I'm sorry, but the idea that Nintendo is so incredibly leak proof that they managed to stop Ubisoft from leaking, but cannot stop "factory uncles" from leaking is just extremely silly.

If the argument is "well, Nintendo just hasn't shared any information with Ubisoft because getting ports of the Assassin's Creed RPGs and Rainbow Six and having a working relationship with Ubisoft is less important than stopping IGN from leaking the Switch 2's upcoming release window" ... No.

I guess it's fine (though I think silly) to think that Nintendo is simply totally leak proof, but people who think that Nintendo has stopped Ubisoft from leaking but can't stop "factory uncles" from leaking are just coping massively right now.

Funcles working in China and earn VERY likely max 10% of what a game dev would earn - even in China. Stopping a Funcle when the product is already in mass production is nearly impossible, even Apple can't stop it. Also what should happen to a Funcle if he gets fired? I doubt someone is doing many background checks on them.
A game dev on the other side is way more sorted by a HR. If a company like Nintendo would send them a No-Fly list, HRs in big companies will follow that list. So if its impossible for them to get a job in the major studios, they leave the industry all together. Of course a Dev would have no problem to find another job nowadays, but not in the gaming industry and likely also not in jobs with higher security approval.
Just my two cents for that argument.

 

[Dakhil]

So the Phawk did benchmarks comparisons between Van Gogh, the AMD Ryzen 6800U, and the AMD Ryzen 7840U.


And basically, Van Gogh outperforms the AMD Ryzen 6800U and the AMD Ryzen 7840U at TDPs ≤11 W. And the AMD Ryzen 6800U and the AMD Ryzen 7840U outperforms Van Gogh at TDPs >11 W.

So assuming the AMD Z1 Extreme is based on the AMD Ryzen 7840U, then the AMD Z1 Extreme doesn't seem like the best choice for hybrid consoles running on an OS that's not Microsoft Windows, at least to me.

I'm going to wait for a more thorough benchmarks comparisons video, but Linus Sebastian from Linus Tech Tips mentioned that the Steam Deck outperforms the Asus ROG Ally (the AMD Z1 Extreme model) at 10 W, but the Asus ROG Ally (the AMD Z1 Extreme model) outperforms the Steam Deck at 15 W. And the Steam Deck has a slight longer battery life than the Asus ROG Ally (the AMD Z1 Extreme model) at 10 W (6.5 hours vs 5.8 hours).


So far, the AMD Z1 Extreme seems to be performing very similarly to the AMD Ryzen 7840U. So the AMD Z1 Extreme so far doesn't seem like a viable option for hybrid consoles running an OS that's not Microsoft Windows, at least to me.

So the Phawk finally did a benchmarks comparisons video between Van Gogh, the Ryzen 6800U, the Ryzen 7840U, and the AMD Z1 Extreme, with the caveat that the Phawk couldn't set the TDP to 5 W yet.


Van Gogh outperforms the Ryzen 7840U, the Ryzen 6800U, and the AMD Z1 Extreme, at 10 W, in that order.
But interestingly, at ≥15 W, the Ryzen 7840U for the most part outperforms the AMD Z1 Extreme, the Ryzen 6800U, and Van Gogh, in that order.
The one exception is with Cyberpunk 2077 where at ≥20 W, the AMD Z1 Extreme outperforms the AMD 7840U, the Ryzen 6800 U, and Van Gogh, in that order.
And with Deus Ex Mankind, Horizon Zero Dawn, and Shadow of the Tomb Raider, at ≥15 W, although the AMD 7840U remains at top, the AMD 6800U is at second, the AMD Z1 Extreme is at third, and Van Gogh is at fourth.

So far, the AMD Z1 Extreme seems very underwhelming. I wonder what was AMD and/or Asus doing with the AMD Z1 Extreme that made the AMD Z1 Extreme seem very underwhelming.

And I'm very disappointed that AMD doesn't seem to care about the performance of AMD's APUs at <15 W.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Funcles working in China and earn VERY likely max 10% of what a game dev would earn - even in China. Stopping a Funcle when the product is already in mass production is nearly impossible, even Apple can't stop it. Also what should happen to a Funcle if he gets fired? I doubt someone is doing many background checks on them.
A game dev on the other side is way more sorted by a HR. If a company like Nintendo would send them a No-Fly list, HRs in big companies will follow that list. So if its impossible for them to get a job in the major studios, they leave the industry all together. Of course a Dev would have no problem to find another job nowadays, but not in the gaming industry and likely also not in jobs with higher security approval.
Just my two cents for that argument.

Yeah, this just doesn't fly with how constantly Ubisoft leaks extremely important and embarrassing information.

Every time an Assassin's Creed game gets internally delayed by six weeks, a Ubisoft dev is texting Tom Henderson to tell him.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

I guess it's fine (though I think silly) to think that Nintendo is simply totally leak proof, but people who think that Nintendo has stopped Ubisoft from leaking but can't stop "factory uncles" from leaking are just coping massively right now.

It does seem like the further down things go, the harder it would be to keep a handle on things. A major development partner keeping their in-the-know employees in line, versus guy on the factory floor at a late stage in the process. Like, Zelda OLED leaked thanks to pictures of produced units, not somebody associated with the design team with loose lips.

 

[Hosermess]

Yeah, this just doesn't fly with how constantly Ubisoft leaks extremely important and embarrassing information.

Every time an Assassin's Creed game gets internally delayed by six weeks, a Ubisoft dev is texting Tom Henderson to tell him.

Where all the Beyond Good and Evil 2 leaks then?

/s but also genuinely want to know lol

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Where all the Beyond Good and Evil 2 leaks then?

/s but also genuinely want to know lol

There are a lot of BG&E2 leaks actually.

From six months ago

Beyond Good and Evil 2 is Still in "Early Development"

Insider Gaming understands that Beyond Good and Evil 2 is still referred to as a game in early development.

insider-gaming.com

 

[invwar]

I'm saying that if the Switch 2 was very close to release, a ton of Ubisoft devs would have Switch 2 dev kits and a lot of Switch 2 information, and as Ubisoft leaks constantly, we would have tons and tons of Switch 2 leaks right now.

So therefore the Switch 2 is probably not close to release currently.

When did the leaker Ubisofts get the NX? We know for sure there was a NX given to Ubisoft Milan. I doubt that this team was full of leaker, they seems to be quite a well off team for Ubisoft.
Rayman Legends was done by Pastagames, but could be maybe even an easy few month port. So I see the only other dev team being the Just Dance team, which is Ubisoft Paris and Pune. But here I see definitely more the Paris team working on it and if they are leaking, I am not so sure.

 

[Pokemaniac]

Keeping a major AAA publisher with a reputation for leaks on a short leash is much easier than a factory. Completely different dynamics and incentives.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

When did the leaker Ubisofts get the NX? We know for sure there was a NX given to Ubisoft Milan. I doubt that this team was full of leaker, they seems to be quite a well off team for Ubisoft.
Rayman Legends was done by Pastagames, but could be maybe even an easy few month port. So I see the only other dev team being the Just Dance team, which is Ubisoft Paris and Pune. But here I see definitely more the Paris team working on it and if they are leaking, I am not so sure.

I mean, the Assassin's Creed RPGs are an absolutely fantastic fit for the Switch and Ubisoft will jump at the chance to port them over to the Switch 2. A lot of Ubisoft games fit well on the Switch in theory and Ubisoft will probably port a ton of stuff over. So they need a lot of staff on board for the Switch 2.

 

[YolkFolk]

Do we still think DLSS will be a thing with the new hardware?

Was just thinking if the chip wasn’t drake.

 

[SirArthur]

Releases sooner than I thought. There is a demo out till the 22th. Interesting to see how their implementation of lumen works out.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Do we still think DLSS will be a thing with the new hardware?

Was just thinking if the chip wasn’t drake.

As long as its NVIDIA, yeah.

If it's not NVIDIA, then no.

 

[chocolate_supra]

Also let's not forget one of the uncles has already had their account shut down and all their threads wiped, so it's not like Nintendo is just letting the factory workers do/say whatever. I still bet they're plugging leaks all over the place.

 

[invwar]

Yeah, this just doesn't fly with how constantly Ubisoft leaks extremely important and embarrassing information.

Every time an Assassin's Creed game gets internally delayed by six weeks, a Ubisoft dev is texting Tom Henderson to tell him.

Yeah, but "leaking" a delay/issues is something very different to leaking a whole new system. Delay/issues are mostly related to bad team management and general bad project management - a section devs suffer and are knowingly quite bad at Ubisoft. So this is kind of dissatisfied with your job leaks and Ubisoft has to be careful with handling this based on their reputation.
BUT leaking a new system is usually category bragging about it (i have/know something you dont know), but of course constantly delays can also cause leaks. But its very different kind of leaks, which also Ubisoft can react to without fearing getting punished in the public.

 

[TSR3]

Funcles working in China and earn VERY likely max 10% of what a game dev would earn - even in China. Stopping a Funcle when the product is already in mass production is nearly impossible, even Apple can't stop it. Also what should happen to a Funcle if he gets fired? I doubt someone is doing many background checks on them.
A game dev on the other side is way more sorted by a HR. If a company like Nintendo would send them a No-Fly list, HRs in big companies will follow that list. So if its impossible for them to get a job in the major studios, they leave the industry all together. Of course a Dev would have no problem to find another job nowadays, but not in the gaming industry and likely also not in jobs with higher security approval.
Just my two cents for that argument.

Yep, it's my understanding as well that breaking an NDA is taken very seriously in the gaming development, and even if there isn't an explicit blacklist, it's pretty much a case of 'you'll never work in this industry again'. I'm not a developer but I did question how enforceable NDAs were on another thread, and there was plenty of response back that they were.

 

[ILikeFeet]

Do we still think DLSS will be a thing with the new hardware?

Was just thinking if the chip wasn’t drake.

I don't see why not. could there be a chip that doesn't have tensor cores? it's possible, but I don't think Nvidia wants to pass on that selling point

 

[TSR3]

And I'm very disappointed that AMD doesn't seem to care about the performance of AMD's APUs at <15 W.

I bet Nvidia aren't!

 

[invwar]

I mean, the Assassin's Creed RPGs are an absolutely fantastic fit for the Switch and Ubisoft will jump at the chance to port them over to the Switch 2. A lot of Ubisoft games fit well on the Switch in theory and Ubisoft will probably port a ton of stuff over. So they need a lot of staff on board for the Switch 2.

Assassin's Creed only started to get released by 2019, so its safely to assume either Ubisoft have not bothered to bring their AC games to Switch before it was a proven success or they couldn't give them earlier the devkits. It started with AC3 because it was working on the WiiU already and likely Nintendo was able to give them cross compiler. The Remastered for other consoles was likely just a side product of this attempt, but unlikely that dev started here before Switch Release.
If Ubisoft had early devkits for the AC team, they had ported for sure AC Ezio Edition, which was just out when the Switch was released.
It not showing up before 2022 shows to me, that Ubisoft had no interest or wasnt allowed to give the notable leaker teams devkits.

 

[ShaunSwitch]

Yep, it's my understanding as well that breaking an NDA is taken very seriously in the gaming development, and even if there isn't an explicit blacklist, it's pretty much a case of 'you'll never work in this industry again'. I'm not a developer but I did question how enforceable NDAs were on another thread, and there was plenty of response back that they were.

Let's add to this the fact that Nintendo are known to be particularly litigious. They are the entity who have waged a war on rom and emulation sites despite it also impacting others. They constantly threaten legal action against fan games and projects to protect their IP. They likely have one of the larger legal teams in the industry and given their track record it's not a stretch to believe that the NDAs they enforce are particularly punitive when compared to the rest of the industry and that they are tenacious in pursuing that action.

What is a stretch is stating that people who believe Nintendo can't keep a lid on leaks through this action are coping.

Both myself and my Wife have had to sign NDAs in our respective industries and they are all different, some of them are no joke.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Yep, it's my understanding as well that breaking an NDA is taken very seriously in the gaming development, and even if there isn't an explicit blacklist, it's pretty much a case of 'you'll never work in this industry again'. I'm not a developer but I did question how enforceable NDAs were on another thread, and there was plenty of response back that they were.

I mean, Ubisoft has shown almost constantly over the last year that their employees just do not care at all about NDAs and they haven't managed to seemingly fire any of these people.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Keeping a major AAA publisher with a reputation for leaks on a short leash is much easier than a factory. Completely different dynamics and incentives.

What credible threat could Nintendo give Ubisoft though.

If Ubisoft leaks "Switch 2 releasing November 2023!" then... What is Nintendo going to actually do?

Do they say "no, we're not letting you release Assassin's Creed Origins and Valhalla and Odyssey on Switch 2" or what.

 

[TSR3]

I mean, Ubisoft has shown almost constantly over the last year that their employees just do not care at all about NDAs and they haven't managed to seemingly fire any of these people.

Maybe it's different in France? Anyway, I thought this comment ...

I think once the Switch 2 production enters in full force, we’ll be seeing more factory leaks, like how iPhones get factory leaks from screen molds and cover companies getting their phone covers leaked

... was quite a strong support for your argument (even if @ziggyrivers is hoping the leaks will start real soon?)

 

[ezidro3]

A new DF Direct is out and they talk about Switch 2 (briefly, due to the Sharp LCD rumour). Most notably is that Rich thinks that it won’t launch until Holiday 2024 since Nintendo said no new hardware in the financial year, and (imo he says this as fact) that we would be hearing more from game developers at this point if it was launching in April for example and that devkits were out at one point but not anymore.

 

[invwar]

What credible threat could Nintendo give Ubisoft though.

If Ubisoft leaks "Switch 2 releasing November 2023!" then... What is Nintendo going to actually do?

Do they say "no, we're not letting you release Assassin's Creed Origins and Valhalla and Odyssey on Switch 2" or what.

I am quite confident that in the state Ubisoft currently is, they need Nintendo MUCH more as Nintendo needs them. If they would tell them you leak and your games are banned for 6 months or never released would harm them much more as Nintendo. We are talking here about late ports anyway. It would be another situation if we are also talking about a release of Mirage. A non-late port Nintendo would unlikely risk too, but I doubt that the few copies of AC on Switch were anything for Nintendo as creating variety on the console.

 

[arsen]

A new DF Direct is out and they talk about Switch 2 (briefly, due to the Sharp LCD rumour). Most notably is that Rich thinks that it won’t launch until Holiday 2024 since Nintendo said no new hardware in the financial year, and (imo he says this as fact) that we would be hearing more from game developers at this point if it was launching in April for example and that devkits were out at one point but not anymore.

Sometimes DF's Switch 2 reports feels like they are intentionally crafted to destabilize this thread

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I am quite confident that in the state Ubisoft currently is, they need Nintendo MUCH more as Nintendo needs them. If they would tell them you leak and your games are banned for 6 months or never released would harm them much more as Nintendo. We are talking here about late ports anyway. It would be another situation if we are also talking about a release of Mirage. A non-late port Nintendo would unlikely risk too, but I doubt that the few copies of AC on Switch were anything for Nintendo as creating variety on the console.

I mean, yes, Ubisoft would be hurt worse than Nintendo in the situation described, but I just don't see how keeping the Switch 2 a secret to the point of making the Switch 2's launch lineup worse would be valuable. To be credible (in a game theory sense which I think applies most times in reality as well), a threat from a party must maximize their expected utility in the consequences stage and I don't think Nintendo would net benefit from retaliating against Ubisoft for leaks. Hence the threat is not credible.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I think there was a debate about if TotK would ship 20m within a few weeks, but it absolutely is.



Probably the most anticipated game of all time until GTA 6 and (maybe) Elden Ring 2 start getting promoted and that has turned into A LOT of sales.

 

[Pokemaniac]

What credible threat could Nintendo give Ubisoft though.

If Ubisoft leaks "Switch 2 releasing November 2023!" then... What is Nintendo going to actually do?

Do they say "no, we're not letting you release Assassin's Creed Origins and Valhalla and Odyssey on Switch 2" or what.

Nintendo granted the devkits and can revoke them (until they become generally available).

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Nintendo granted the devkits and can revoke them (until they become generally available).

Again, not a credible threat because that would net harm Nintendo significantly while the harm from leaking would be pretty minor.

 

[invwar]

I mean, yes, Ubisoft would be hurt worse than Nintendo in the situation described, but I just don't see how keeping the Switch 2 a secret to the point of making the Switch 2's launch lineup worse would be valuable. To be credible (in a game theory sense which I think applies most times in reality as well), a threat from a party must maximize their expected utility in the consequences stage and I don't think Nintendo would net benefit from retaliating against Ubisoft for leaks. Hence the threat is not credible.

Don't misunderstand me, I really doubt they would do that, this is just an assumption what they could do. This is my theory for Team FY2024. For Team FY2025 it is more likely the "devs are going on a not allow list" is enough, as the devs with then actual access to a devkit should be even within Ubisoft still quite limited.

 

[D36]

A new DF Direct is out and they talk about Switch 2 (briefly, due to the Sharp LCD rumour). Most notably is that Rich thinks that it won’t launch until Holiday 2024 since Nintendo said no new hardware in the financial year, and (imo he says this as fact) that we would be hearing more from game developers at this point if it was launching in April for example and that devkits were out at one point but not anymore.

Did Nintendo actually say that? Cause last I checked, it was left vague and not the usual denial. I think Rich might have been misinformed.

 

[Pokemaniac]

Again, not a credible threat because that would net harm Nintendo significantly while the harm from leaking would be pretty minor.

Ubisoft needs Nintendo much more than Nintendo needs Ubisoft right now.

 

[Thraktor]

Did Nintendo actually say that? Cause last I checked, it was left vague and not the usual denial. I think Rich might have been misinformed.

No, they didn't. Bloomberg published an article following the financial report which included a quote from an analyst who didn't expect new hardware this FY. VGC published their own article, citing Bloomberg as the source, claiming Nintendo said they weren't going to release new hardware this FY. They later removed this from their article, but as other outlets had repeated VGC's claim by that point it just kept being repeated. Nintendo published a transcript of the Q&A a day later in Japanese and a couple of days after that with an English translation, and neither had any reference whether they would release new hardware this FY.

Edit: The Bloomberg article also stated that Nintendo's 15 million hardware forecast didn't include new hardware, but that's a very different thing than saying there's no new hardware. Nintendo historically haven't forecast sales numbers for new generations of hardware even when they've been announced.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Ubisoft needs Nintendo much more than Nintendo needs Ubisoft right now.

"Credible" is defined in game theory (and I believe this is easily the best definition of credible) as a party maximizing its expected utility/revenue by going through on its commitment in the consequence stage.

Let's just assume that Ubisoft has one of their 21k employees leak the Switch 2 to Jason S or someone else.

The best thing in this stage for Nintendo to do in the consequences stage is... Not really anything. They could punish Ubisoft by revoking dev kits, but this will massively delay some big software for the Switch 2 and harm Nintendo. The threat is not credible by the best definition of a credible threat.

 

[ezidro3]

Did Nintendo actually say that? Cause last I checked, it was left vague and not the usual denial. I think Rich might have been misinformed.

I don't know, I was trying to be as accurate as possible when quoting him. Even then, the part about the lack of communication from devs and devkits being returned is more interesting imo

 

[Deleted member 1141]

I really don't get why you're getting so heated over why there's no leaks. Nintendo has been cracking down more-and-more on these. They do know we know. They're being careful with their fiscal meetings on the timing/release, and they're likely having strict gag-orders from leaking anything on the developer side of things. We know one of the Factory Uncles accounts suddenly was deactivated and it's unclear if it was related to Nintendo or not, but Nintendo outright said they were going to try and crack down on leaks coming from factories during one of the fiscal meetings.

Even right now, the factory uncles that are still active, are being EXCEPTIONALLY careful with information they're posting, going from production, testing, and describing the parts recently. No one wants to leak anything outside of text, especially given they could get into some serious legal trouble.

That's it.

There is no conspiracy where it is at the state of release. Nintendo is just one of the bigger corporations that will actually go after someone legally for leaks and no one really wants to risk that. That's all there is.

 

[chocolate_supra]

Let's just assume that Ubisoft has one of their 21k employees leak the Switch 2 to Jason S or someone else.

The best thing in this stage for Nintendo to do in the consequences stage is... Not really anything. They could punish Ubisoft by revoking dev kits, but this will massively delay some big software for the Switch 2 and harm Nintendo. The threat is not credible by the best definition of a credible threat.

To Ubisoft as a whole, maybe Nintendo wouldn't do much. But I'd expect (based on their history with leaky stuff) that they would pressure Ubisoft to track down and fire the employee who leaked and then sue the everloving shit outta them for breaking NDA. And that very, very strong consequence might be why we aren't hearing anything from any Ubi employees, because the credible threat is to them individually, not Ubisoft as a company.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

To Ubisoft as a whole, maybe Nintendo wouldn't do much. But I'd expect (based on their history with leaky stuff) that they would pressure Ubisoft to track down and fire the employee who leaked and then sue the everloving shit outta them for breaking NDA. And that very, very strong consequence might be why we aren't hearing anything from any Ubi employees, because the credible threat is to them individually, not Ubisoft as a company.

Yes, that is a good point (as different parties have different incentives at a micro and macro level), but I'm just unclear that Ubisoft can literally do that as they have been unable to plug any leaks over the last year no matter how embarrassing.

The recent "Beyond Good and Evil 2 is still not close to completing pre-production" leaks were humiliating to the company and I'm sure they would want those leaks to stop and they have not managed it.

21k employees across 12 countries is just really hard to stop leaking from.

 

[chocolate_supra]

Yes, that is a good point (as different parties have different incentives at a micro and macro level), but I'm just unclear that Ubisoft can literally do that as they have been unable to plug any leaks over the last year no matter how embarrassing.

The recent "Beyond Good and Evil 2 is still not close to completing pre-production" leaks were humiliating to the company and I'm sure they would want those leaks to stop and they have not managed it.

21k employees across 12 countries is just really hard to stop leaking from.

Ubi employees might just be more afraid of Nintendo then they are of their own employer.

 

[Hermii]

Yeah, it sold 44m (top 20 best selling game of all time), but they cut support for the game pretty quickly and did not seem at all enthused by how it performed.

You can definitely argue that was ludicrous, of course.

Well, the business case of a port is very different than the business case for continuing support.

 

[Monster Mash]

Was the original Switch leaked? The Wii U? If so, were they leaked by Ubisoft? What precedent is there to believe Nintendo hardware doesn't exist because it hasn't been leaked, particularly by one specific publisher?

The Switch is 6+ years old. Isn't it a bit silly to assume they aren't actively prepping the launch of their next console yet?

 

[Angel Whispers]

if I remember correctly, the issue was Red Dead Online not living up to revenue expectations

Perhaps it could’ve done better if Rockstar cared to deal with the racists on there.

 

[Goodtwin]

Part of my problem with the "we don't have leaks, so it can't be released this year" line of thinking is that by the same logic Nintendo isn't going to release a single game after Pikmin 4 this year.

Most of the leaks we get about new hardware from gaming media and "insiders" comes via developers. Journalist talks to developer, developer says "Hey, I'm working on game X for the new hardware, here are some details". Good journalists talk to several developers before publishing, not so good journalists just publish straight away with one source. The fact that they're dealing with developers means they have to know about game X, and probably games Y and Z if they want to do a good job getting multiple sources. That is, for journalists to know anything about unannounced hardware, by necessity they must also know about unannounced software as well.

So, what unannounced Switch games have been leaked by reliable sources? We have Twilight Princess and Wind Waker ports, which leaked a long time back, would appear to have been sitting on a shelf for a while, and are very unlikely to release this year, given the game that released last week. Outside of those, I'm not aware of a single game which has been leaked by reliable outlets. I've seen people referring to Paper Mario TTYD and F-Zero GX ports/remasters in this thread, but in the former case it's based purely on a random Famiboards poster, and in the latter case the thread was locked here for lack of evidence. Ports and remasters are also exactly the kind of thing fake leakers will go for, as they're a much safer bet than trying to come up with the details for a fake new game.

I'm also not aware of any unannounced third party games which have been reliably leaked. Dusk Golem talked about a Switch Resident Evil game, but that was supposed to be released a year ago and I don't think we've heard anything about it in two years. There may be something else I'm missing, but I had a look back through the "Rumour" threads here and didn't see anything.

So, as I see it, either Switch will have an exceptionally quiet second half of the year, or the developers of unannounced Switch games aren't talking to journalists. The former I don't see happening, regardless of any new hardware, as the lineup for the first half of the year has been very strong, and had there been nothing to release in H2, Nintendo could have easily pushed back several titles. That leaves Switch developers not talking to journalists, and if they're not talking to journalists about their games, they're hardly talking to journalists about new hardware.

Exactly. If you are expecting developers to leak the hardware, why aren't we seeing leaks for software? Its a double standard to expect developers to leak the hardware but we have no credible leaks for the second half lineup of software, and we we know that its not going to be terrible because the first half was so strong. You wouldn't throw XBC3 DLC and Advance Wars 1+2 out there a couple weeks before Zelda TotK if you were struggling to fill out the year with games. The idea that one piece of hardware cannot be kept a secret but numerous pieces of software can is ludicrous. Can you imagine the amount of people involved with software compared to new hardware? Its not even close. Thousands of individuals have worked on various unannounced games that will come to Switch that we have not heard about yet, so if all these people are keeping silent on the games, what makes anyone so confident that they would leak the hardware? Does this mean new hardware is coming this year? Of course not, we just don't know, but the lack of leaks doesnt paint a clear picture one way or the other. We have a lack of leaks for software, but does anyone really think the second half is going to be barren?

Not surprising since the RAM has always been one of the Nintendo Switch's biggest bottlenecks.

I imagine that RAM's still going to be one of the biggest bottlenecks for Nintendo's new hardware from a bandwidth standpoint, although I don't think to the same extent as with the Nintendo Switch with respect to the RAM.

After seeing just how much of an improvement this game got from a modest memory speed increase, really makes me think that a Mariko based Pro model may have been able to deliver image quality in line with early trailers. Combine a X1+ with the fastest LPDDR4X memory available and you could render Zelda TotK at 1080p natively with 2X MSAA and you get a very clean Zelda TotK.

 

[Pokemaniac]

Yes, that is a good point (as different parties have different incentives at a micro and macro level), but I'm just unclear that Ubisoft can literally do that as they have been unable to plug any leaks over the last year no matter how embarrassing.

The recent "Beyond Good and Evil 2 is still not close to completing pre-production" leaks were humiliating to the company and I'm sure they would want those leaks to stop and they have not managed it.

21k employees across 12 countries is just really hard to stop leaking from.

21k employees across 12 countries aren't going to have access to information about an unannounced console. Companies are not monolithic entities. Information boundaries are more complex and will vary by subject.

 

[ziggyrivers]

Was the original Switch leaked?

The idea of a portable home console was correctly guessed before confirmation because of its codename: NX.

The Wii U?

I think so because of this article:

Nintendo Project Café console leaked | Stuff

A private developer conference has revealed what appears to be Nintendo’s Wii 2

www.stuff.tv

were they leaked by Ubisoft?

I did a Google search and all I found was probably someone masquerading as a Ubisoft employee “leaking” Wii U details lol

What precedent is there to believe Nintendo hardware doesn't exist because it hasn't been leaked, particularly by one specific publisher?

I believe none. Maybe it’s an assumption based on an “industry norm” that, since competitors are okay with hardware leaks, that Nintendo is the same

The Switch is 6+ years old. Isn't it a bit silly to assume they aren't actively prepping the launch of their next console yet?

Exactlt. Facts are that the Switch is declining and Nintendo almost always releases a new console six years after the previous one. Just because Nintendo said they want the Switch to last more than the usual life cycle doesn’t mean they’ll take it to heart. Was probably corporate PR to appease investors at a time where Nintendo was flapping on the Hardware and Software side.

Even though I very much think the Switch will last long. But at the last minute, the 3DS masted 9.5 years in the market. Nintendo consoles have always lasted in the market. Hell, it was only recently they closed down 3DS/Wii U shops. Id anything, I think production of the Switch will stop maybe in 2026 and they’ll close down eShop support in 2029. It’s harder because they’ll want to migrate Nintendo Online accounts from an older ecosystem to a newer one (Switch 2).

21k employees across 12 countries aren't going to have access to information about an unannounced console. Companies are not monolithic entities. Information boundaries are more complex and will vary by subject.

Correct. I presume new console dev kit presentations are first pitched to the highest executive of a developer. They then pass this info to a handful of people that will work on the pre-production of a new console game, and when the game enters full production, they’ll NDA everyone involved in it.

 

[TomNookYankees]

I was watching the Digital Foundry video about the Street Fighter 6 DEMO, and lmao why do we needed a new gen again? Like, the differences between PS4 and PS5 are minuscule! Some slightly better textures and a resolution bump and that's it for everything that is visible without you being a visual nutjob.

I think it speaks more about how an eight gen console can still deliver stunning visuals...so like... even if the next Switch is only as powerful as a PS4 it should still look glorious : )

I have seen one or two people here going "omg if its not as powerful as a series S why even buy it!" and im so lost lol.

I think we are overall getting to a point where games that efficiently push Gen 9 to its limits take several years to make and are more limited by storage space/speeds. For the vast majority of games the only major thing that will be difficult to scale down to Switch 2 is Ray Tracing.

However street fighter 6 is uniquely easy to port to Gen 8 performance hardware mainly because it’s a 1v1 fighting game running on an engine that has already been very well optimized for Gen 8 hardware. So long as Nintendo’s next hardware is able to run RE engine it’s going to be incredibly easy to get downscaled ports of Capcom’s AAA games.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Do we still think DLSS will be a thing with the new hardware?

Was just thinking if the chip wasn’t drake.

If it's not Drake and also doesn't have DLSS, then it's some finished design that's been sitting on a shelf for 3+ years.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Was the original Switch leaked? The Wii U? If so, were they leaked by Ubisoft? What precedent is there to believe Nintendo hardware doesn't exist because it hasn't been leaked, particularly by one specific publisher?

The Switch is 6+ years old. Isn't it a bit silly to assume they aren't actively prepping the launch of their next console yet?

To be clear, devs immediately attempted to leak the Switch as soon as they got dev kits in October 2015, lol

Nintendo NX Is a Console/Mobile Hybrid, Has "Industry-Leading" Tech - Report

Report also claims software development kits are now being sent to developers.

www.gamespot.com

Some of the details are off because they likely got a dev kit with two profiles and assumed it was two different consoles that were companions instead of one console doing both.