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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

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Honestly, I hope Nintendo uses a 720p screen for redacted,
and there are 3 reasons.
1) consumes less energy, which is important for a portable console.
2) games can have good graphics and a good framerate without sacrificing for resolution.
3) Perfect for Nintendo Switch games without making them look blurry (like DS games on the 3DS).
 
Shish said:
Honestly, I hope Nintendo uses a 720p screen for redacted,
and there are 3 reasons.
1) consumes less energy, which is important for a portable console.
2) games can have good graphics and a good framerate without sacrificing for resolution.
3) Perfect for Nintendo Switch games without making them look blurry (like DS games on the 3DS).
Click to expand...
I see the advantages, think It'll come down to price though. They'll go with whatever is cheaper.
 
The only way I can see Nintendo gravitating towards a 1080p display is if Nintendo wants to support VRR in handheld mode and TV mode.

As far as I know, the minimum specs for VRR, at least for mobile OLED displays, is 1080p and 120 Hz (e.g. iPhone 13 Pro series).

I don't believe there exists a VRR enabled 720p display. Of course, Nintendo could ask display manufacturers to custom design a VRR enabled 720p display. But I imagine that won't be inexpensive, nor do I expect a significant reduction in price, especially if Nintendo's the only customer, and Nintendo can never match smartphone companies in terms of units sold.
 
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Armoured_Bear said:
I see the advantages, think It'll come down to price though. They'll go with whatever is cheaper.
Click to expand...
I could actually see them going with whatever fits the console best (within budget).


Assuming the sharp rumor is Nintendo, they been involved since the R&D stage. That wouldn't have happened it they just used some standard part.

So maybe they will do something crazy, like a 720p, variable refresh, HDR lcd, which afaik doesn't exist on the market.
 
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JesusSaves7 said:
I think it's happening. June just looks wide open to me when they'll have a direct. Either way we're about a month out before they'd probably give more info.
Click to expand...
It would be the perfect time to show MP4 as well... I'm not expecting it and a 2023 release, but I agree that the timing would be perfect if it was.
 
JesusSaves7 said:
I think it's happening. June just looks wide open to me when they'll have a direct. Either way we're about a month out before they'd probably give more info.
Click to expand...
It’ll be a direct that announces games only on the switch and some people will be dissatisfied and disappointed, then you’ll have other people come in and say, “this is fine and people should stop dooming” as a way to basically quell any emotion people are expressing since that seems to be a problem whenever people are disappointed with something, others seem to come in and invalidate that for whatever reason.

And then top it off with, “it was always 2024 like I said”

People will ignore them and continue speculating until a morsel of info comes out which will make the thread go into +15pages and people that stopped posting because of trolls that contributed in honest discussion will post only for a brief period before going back into hiding because there’s nothing worth talking about.

And we gush over how great TOTK is throughout on a technical level.

Something along those lines.

Oh and we have cookies too.
 
oldpuck said:
The short answer, I guess is "easily." The long answer is slightly more nuanced.

Basically, it's like @ILikeFeet said - the Steam Deck is a mini PC, and that means that it has to run PC CPUs, instead of Nintendo's mobile CPUs. If all you did was replace the CPUs, you'd save something like 25% power right away.

Steam Deck is built with last gen tech. Its using a TSMC 7nm process (which is very nice, don't get me wrong) but modern GPUs have recently moved to 5nm, which offers something like 30% power savings. And modern GPUs have other power saving tech, which we know Nvidia has at least experimented with putting into the new Nintendo chip.

So yes, Nintendo can build a chip that is more powerful than Steam Deck and draws less power. I think most of us expect a more complicated situation. There are places where Nintendo could choose to be more powerful than Steam Deck (the GPU), places where it could choose to be less powerful (the CPU), and places where it might actually be both - more powerful in Docked mode, less powerful in handheld mode (Memory clock).

There are other places too that Nintendo might be able to save power or save costs over Steam Deck. Steam Deck has a multiple track pads, reassignable grip buttons, and touch sensitive sticks. Steam Deck also uses a custom LCD screen, which is very bright, and is a bit of a power hog. Steam Deck has 16GB of memory, but spends a lot of it on the OS where Nintendo doesn't.
Click to expand...
I get it. Cool to know that they can save a lot of power trying to do a proper portable console instead a portable PC.
 
Gerald said:
With UFS 3.0 we can have 1GB/s or more?
Click to expand...
you're not getting more

Dakhil said:
The only way I can see Nintendo gravitating towards a 1080p display is if Nintendo wants to support VRR in handheld mode and TV mode.

As far as I know, the minimum specs for VRR, at least for mobile OLED displays, is 1080p and 120 Hz (e.g. iPhone 13 Pro series).

I don't believe there exists a VRR enabled 720p display. Of course, Nintendo could ask display manufacturers to custom design a VRR enabled 720p display. But I imagine that won't be inexpensive, nor do I expect a significant reduction in price, especially if Nintendo's the only customer, and Nintendo can never match smartphone companies in terms of units sold.
Click to expand...
I don't think it's gonna affect price all that much. VRR isn't tied to resolution or anything. 720p panels just aren't premium so no panel makers does it.
 
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ReddDreadtheLead said:
It’ll be a direct that announces games only on the switch and some people will be dissatisfied and disappointed, then you’ll have other people come in and say, “this is fine and people should stop dooming” as a way to basically quell any emotion people are expressing since that seems to be a problem whenever people are disappointed with something, others seem to come in and invalidate that for whatever reason.

And then top it off with, “it was always 2024 like I said”

People will ignore them and continue speculating until a morsel of info comes out which will make the thread go into +15pages and people that stopped posting because of trolls that contributed in honest discussion will post only for a brief period before going back into hiding because there’s nothing worth talking about.

And we gush over how great TOTK is throughout on a technical level.

Something along those lines.

Oh and we have cookies too.
Click to expand...
Eh, I think this might be where we see Drake. The way I see it, 2024 just seems too unlikely at this point, but maybe I'm reading the tea leaves wrong.
 
Dakhil said:
The only way I can see Nintendo gravitating towards a 1080p display is if Nintendo wants to support VRR in handheld mode and TV mode.

As far as I know, the minimum specs for VRR, at least for mobile OLED displays, is 1080p and 120 Hz (e.g. iPhone 13 Pro series).

I don't believe there exists a VRR enabled 720p display. Of course, Nintendo could ask display manufacturers to custom design a VRR enabled 720p display. But I imagine that won't be inexpensive, nor do I expect a significant reduction in price, especially if Nintendo's the only customer, and Nintendo can never match smartphone companies in terms of units sold.
Click to expand...
Like I posted above, Sharp rumor says they been involved with this console since the R&D stage. That woudnt have been necessary if they were using an off the shelf display.

So if it is Nintendo, just the fact that something doesn't exist on the market currently doesn't mean Nintendo will not use it.
 
D36 said:
Eh, I think this might be where we see Drake. The way I see it, 2024 just seems too unlikely at this point, but maybe I'm reading the tea leaves wrong.
Click to expand...
Nintendo might sneek 1 or 2 Switch sucessor games on the next Nintendo Direct, and later they hint this games are for they next gen hardware.
 
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Hermii said:
Like I posted above, Sharp rumor says they been involved with this console since the R&D stage. That woudnt have been necessary if they were using an off the shelf display.

So if it is Nintendo, just the fact that something doesn't exist on the market currently doesn't mean Nintendo will not use it.
Click to expand...
They are going to bring back glasses free 3D aren't they? I would say that if they did that I'd eat my hat but I don't own one, so I'll eat Jensen Huangs leather jacket instead.
 
D36 said:
Eh, I think this might be where we see Drake. The way I see it, 2024 just seems too unlikely at this point, but maybe I'm reading the tea leaves wrong.
Click to expand...

No major leaks from any game developers which suggests that at this point the number of third parties who already have access to Switch 2 dev kits is extremely limited at most. Nintendo going to Gamescom August this year would be the perfect time for them to start showing dev kits to various third parties but that would be far too late in the year to be for a 2023 release and would more indicative of a 2024 release.
 
TomNookYankees said:
No major leaks from any game developers which suggests that at this point the number of third parties who already have access to Switch 2 dev kits is extremely limited at most. Nintendo going to Gamescom August this year would be the perfect time for them to start showing dev kits to various third parties but that would be far too late in the year to be for a 2023 release and would more indicative of a 2024 release.
Click to expand...
I know we've gone over this earlier, but wouldn't that apply mostly to western publishers? While I don't think Nintendo would just not give their dev kits to them, that might explain the lack of any concrete leak. Either that or the idea that Nintendo is cracking down hard on leaks is actually legit. Though this is all under the assumption that anything has to leak for there to be any indication of upcoming hardware, we could very well get a reveal with hardly any leaks aside from what we've had for months.
 
Shish said:
2) games can have good graphics and a good framerate without sacrificing for resolution.
Click to expand...
Depends what you like to look at. To me this reads as "Games can have good graphics by giving them worse graphics in this other way."
3) Perfect for Nintendo Switch games without making them look blurry (like DS games on the 3DS).
Click to expand...
Given a 1080p screen, shouldn't be an issue. Modern scaling techniques are better, and 720p->1080p makes for a better 1.5x scale than DS->3DS's 1.25x scale.
 
D36 said:
I know we've gone over this earlier, but wouldn't that apply mostly to western publishers? While I don't think Nintendo would just not give their dev kits to them, that might explain the lack of any concrete leak. Either that or the idea that Nintendo is cracking down hard on leaks is actually legit. Though this is all under the assumption that anything has to leak for there to be any indication of upcoming hardware, we could very well get a reveal with hardly any leaks aside from what we've had for months.
Click to expand...
It's possible but extremely unlikely, especially now that nintendo still seems focused on selling switches this fiscal year based on the investors meeting.
 
A couple of things:
• I’m Team 2023, but if a June Direct doesn’t unveil the console, then maybe they’ll drop a reveal trailer in July. Otherwise, I’ll be overly cautious with the 2023 timeframe if nothing is shown in June

• How heavy in the battery would a Triple A, 3D enabled game be? Let’s say: a TOTK type of game
 
TomNookYankees said:
No major leaks from any game developers which suggests that at this point the number of third parties who already have access to Switch 2 dev kits is extremely limited at most. Nintendo going to Gamescom August this year would be the perfect time for them to start showing dev kits to various third parties but that would be far too late in the year to be for a 2023 release and would more indicative of a 2024 release.
Click to expand...
if Nintendo is going to Gamescom 2023 to show devkit for Switch sucessor, i would expect the launch of Switch sucessor in 2025, the third party would need time to know all the know how behind Nintendo next gen hardware and prepare games for the launch of the console.
 
Dakhil said:
Just to be clear, I don't expect Nintendo to release a Lite model equipped with Drake until Nintendo clears inventory of the Nintendo Switch (2019), the Nintendo Switch Lite, and the OLED model, which probably won't happen when Nintendo's new hardware equipped with Drake is launched.

I don't think that's always necessarily true. Nintendo mentioned that the OLED model had a lower profit margin than the Nintendo Switch (2019) and the Nintendo Switch Lite. (I think the higher quality materials used on the OLED model (here and here) compared to the Nintendo Switch (2019) and the Nintendo Switch Lite contributed to the lower profit margin compared to the Nintendo Switch (2019) and the Nintendo Switch Lite.) And of course, the Nintendo Switch's estimated bill of materials, as well as Nintendo mentioning that Nintendo's not planning on selling the Nintendo Switch at a loss, I think implies that the Nintendo Switch initially had a small profit margin.

So I think there's a possibility Nintendo could be ok with a small profit margin when launching Nintendo's new hardware initially.

I think whether or not there's going to be a die shrink of Drake depends on what process node Nintendo and Nvidia decide to use for fabricating Drake. I don't really expect a die shrink of Drake if Nintendo and Nvidia decide to use TSMC's 4N process node to fabricate Drake.

And I think whether or not a Lite model equipped with Drake comes equipped with an OLED display depends on if price wise <6" OLED displays are on par or cheaper than <6" LCD displays. Outside of the Aya Neo Air and Aya Neo Air Pro, I don't really see any devices using a <6" OLED display. And I don't really expect a Lite model equipped with Drake to use a 1080p display regardless of the type of display (LCD or OLED).
Click to expand...

I think there's only going to be one Drake model for a while and it's not going to be a "Lite". It's likely going to be a $399.99 model with 7+ inch Sharp LCD display, removable Joycons, which will launch sometime between April 2024 and end of the year 2024.

That's what it sounds like from things that are coming out and that time line makes sense.
 
ziggyrivers said:
A couple of things:
• I’m Team 2023, but if a June Direct doesn’t unveil the console, then maybe they’ll drop a reveal trailer in July. Otherwise, I’ll be overly cautious with the 2023 timeframe if nothing is shown in June

• How heavy in the battery would a Triple A, 3D enabled game be? Let’s say: a TOTK type of game
Click to expand...
It wouldn’t be in the June direct, it would be a completely separate event.


It depends, how much does TOTK push the switch V1? Switch V2? SWITCH OLED? Switch Lite?
 
Giancarlo said:
if Nintendo is going to Gamescom 2023 to show devkit for Switch sucessor, i would expect the launch of Switch sucessor in 2025, the third party would need time to know all the know how behind Nintendo next gen hardware and prepare games for the launch of the console.
Click to expand...
they don't use trade shows to show stuff for the first time. the closest partners are notified long before in order to get a feel for how to proceed with development. whomever gets shown at Gamescom at this point is well further down the list
 
The issue with a 720p screen is that (for intensive games) you're probably then targeting a native 360p or 480p resolution in handheld mode and a 540p or 720p resolution in docked mode.

And 540p DLSS'd up to 4K is not incredible. A 9x pixel gap between handheld and TV is rough.
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
The issue with a 720p screen is that (for intensive games) you're probably then targeting a native 360p or 480p resolution in handheld mode and a 540p or 720p resolution in docked mode.

And 540p DLSS'd up to 4K is not incredible. A 9x pixel gap between handheld and TV is rough.
Click to expand...
Why would a 720p screen indicate 540p docked?
 
chocolate_supra said:
Why would a 720p screen indicate 540p docked?
Click to expand...

You're wasting a lot of power in handheld mode if you go higher than 480p native in handheld mode as DLSS 480p to 720p is extremely good.

But assuming a 1.5x pixel boost from handheld to docked like most Switch games leads to docked games being 720p native and 720p to 4K DLSS is... just OK.

And you can probably get away with 360p native DLSS'd to 720p on handheld too and this leads to native 540p in docked.
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
You're wasting a lot of power in handheld mode if you go higher than 480p native in handheld mode as DLSS 480p to 720p is extremely good.

But assuming a 1.5x pixel boost from handheld to docked like most Switch games leads to docked games being 720p native and 720p to 4K DLSS is... just OK.

And you can probably get away with 360p native DLSS'd to 720p on handheld too and this leads to native 540p in docked.
Click to expand...
Ah, gotcha. Yeah I kinda doubt we'd have to worry too much about that, in docked mode at least. With the kind of power Drake will likely push, along with not having to worry about battery drain, I'd be surprised to see 540p native, honestly would be kinda surprised to see 720p native as well. Maybe 720p to 1440p for really intense 3rd party games, and 1080p to 4K for Nintendo games.

As it is Switch has several games it renders at 540p and upscales, and if the power jump that Drake is gonna offer can only manage the same native resolution or barely higher, I'd be shocked. I expect handheld mode will be a pretty good jump and then docked will be an absolute leapfrog.
 
I definitely think 1080p console screen is the most likely. Can't square 720p with the leaks (or what I've heard elsewise).
 
ziggyrivers said:
A couple of things:
• I’m Team 2023, but if a June Direct doesn’t unveil the console, then maybe they’ll drop a reveal trailer in July. Otherwise, I’ll be overly cautious with the 2023 timeframe if nothing is shown in June

• How heavy in the battery would a Triple A, 3D enabled game be? Let’s say: a TOTK type of game
Click to expand...
TOTK's battery life is pretty much the same as BOTW. So, as little as 2 hours on the original 2017 Switch, up to more than 6 hours on OLED Model.

From the leaks we seem to be looking at increase in power efficiency exactly in line with the increase in performance. This points to power consumption that's nearly exactly the same as the original model of Switch. So, about 2.5 hours in demanding titles if they keep the battery the same capacity. However, circuitry miniaturisation and lithium-ion energy density have both improved significantly since 2017. Since it's likely being assembled right now, I think a near-double capacity is possible, considering how much bigger a Switch body is next to say, a modern 4000mAH capacity mobile phone. My expectations would be closer to about 1.5X. This would put battery life in the general area of Switch Lite in demanding titles. I think that's very acceptable.

That said, if we consider that a lot of usage and early releases will be patched or unpatched Nintendo Switch titles, those should take a lot less energy than full bore, and thus have battery life more in line with, or superior to, OLED Model in the same games.
 
chocolate_supra said:
Ah, gotcha. Yeah I kinda doubt we'd have to worry too much about that, in docked mode at least. With the kind of power Drake will likely push, along with not having to worry about battery drain, I'd be surprised to see 540p native, honestly would be kinda surprised to see 720p native as well. Maybe 720p to 1440p for really intense 3rd party games, and 1080p to 4K for Nintendo games.

As it is Switch has several games it renders at 540p and upscales, and if the power jump that Drake is gonna offer can only manage the same native resolution or barely higher, I'd be shocked. I expect handheld mode will be a pretty good jump and then docked will be an absolute leapfrog.
Click to expand...

There would be no point at all to going past the standard 600p native resolution of most Switch games in handheld mode with a 720p screen and DLSS. It would be way more beneficial for the games in handheld mode to have a max native resolution of 480p.

If the screen is 1080p, then a native resolution of 540p makes a ton of sense, but a 720p screen makes things a little weird if it happens.
 
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eye0h said:
Only OC switch video I've seen:
Click to expand...

This is beautiful. Just proves the Switch is capable of more. I wish Nintendo gave us a boost option that maxes out the clocks without melting the Switch. Simple boost on off option for the likes of us.
 
Intoxicate said:
It‘s rendering half the resolution roundabout (2K vs 1K), so >50% less pixels.
Click to expand...
DLSS saves the day. A higher resolution with lower processing overhead. I mean if I'm not mistaken, the leaks DID point to the GPU's 4W profile (same as Erista's handheld mode) targeting 1080p AFTER DLSS, starting at I think, 720p and/or 540p.
 
I was watching the Digital Foundry video about the Street Fighter 6 DEMO, and lmao why do we needed a new gen again? Like, the differences between PS4 and PS5 are minuscule! Some slightly better textures and a resolution bump and that's it for everything that is visible without you being a visual nutjob.

I think it speaks more about how an eight gen console can still deliver stunning visuals...so like... even if the next Switch is only as powerful as a PS4 it should still look glorious : )

I have seen one or two people here going "omg if its not as powerful as a series S why even buy it!" and im so lost lol.
 
Raccoon said:
the backlight of an OLED?

edit: unless maybe the conversation has moved on to the Sharp report, in which case I ought to keep my snide remarks to myself
Click to expand...
OLED doesn't have a backlight.

A 720p would inherently use less power because there are fewer lighting elements to power. Now how much less is the question and I don't think it's that significant in like for like conditions.
 
Mr Doggo said:
I was watching the Digital Foundry video about the Street Fighter 6 DEMO, and lmao why do we needed a new gen again? Like, the differences between PS4 and PS5 are minuscule! Some slightly better textures and a resolution bump and that's it for everything that is visible without you being a visual nutjob.

I think it speaks more about how an eight gen console can still deliver stunning visuals...so like... even if the next Switch is only as powerful as a PS4 it should still look glorious : )

I have seen one or two people here going "omg if its not as powerful as a series S why even buy it!" and im so lost lol.
Click to expand...

At this stage the only difference between games are budget.
 
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