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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

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Goblin_knight said:
lol I don't get the bitterness around competitive smash it's weird. The way it randomly sets people off is like the existence of it is some great personal offence.
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oh man you should see how some Pokémon fans get about the competitive scene for that (usually because their Eeveelutions team got steam rolled or their fave isn't able to sweep Legendries)
 
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Every type of player is valid. Wish people would just get along lol
 
Some names, from worst to best:

  • New Nintendo Switch (or super or ultra or any other old world they already use)
  • Nintendo Switch Deluxe
  • Nintendo Drake (or other world that is not switch)
  • Nintendo Switch 4K
  • Nintendo Switch 2

The best they can do is use a number. People will easy understand that is not the same machine. even 4k can bring some confusion.
 
YugamiSekai said:
Considering SD Express is backwards compatible with UHS-I, I would say that it has a slightly higher chance at showing up than UFS Card.

I do find it interesting how there are multiple laptops with SD Express 7.0 support, and yet I've only ever seen 2 models of SD Express cards, one available almost nowhere, and another one from a not well-known brand. I wonder if Nintendo would collab with SanDisk to make custom ones like their current Nintendo-branded SD Cards...
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I don't think that sort of backwards compatibility is really going to be a factor, but it's worth considering that there are combination UFS/microSD slots.
 
Angel Whispers said:
I would even put version 4.0 on the table right now, because I don't see any part of this process where Nintendo looked at that support option for a new console, and said something other than "Yes, Please!!" - I know that what was leaked from the horse's mouth is still "too good to be true" for some (lurkers included), but trying to "because Nintendo" one's way into worse/worst case scenarios and doom spirals doesn't help. At least, I remain unconvinced that the storage options are a huge concern at this point, and one could dare to have a little more faith.
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I think that depends on what UFS controller (here and here) Nintendo and Nvidia decides to use before taping out Drake at probably around 1H 2022 (here and here). And considering the UFS 4.0 specifications were published on 17 August 2022, the UFS 4.0 controller probably wasn't ready until well after Drake's probably taped out at around 1H 2022. So I don't really expect UFS 4.0 support for Nintendo's new hardware.
I think Nintendo's going to be fine if Nintendo uses UFS 2.1 or newer since third party developers were requesting from Sony at least a sequential read speed of 1 GB/s for the PlayStation 5.
 
I enjoy playing Smash. During peak pandemic, I saw that a friend of mine who I don't consider a huge gamer was playing a lot of Smash. I texted him to see if he wanted to play. We played maybe a dozen matches before I realized that he was probably getting bored creaming me over and over again.

It turns out that that the main difference between us is that I play lots of different games and he plays a lot of a few games, many of them being competitive, Smash being the number one.

There's no such thing as casuals and competitives. There's just Bartle's Player Types. Some people legitimately enjoy fierce competition, and some people don't. Smash is for everyone.
 
YugamiSekai said:
Considering SD Express is backwards compatible with UHS-I, I would say that it has a slightly higher chance at showing up than UFS Card.

I do find it interesting how there are multiple laptops with SD Express 7.0 support, and yet I've only ever seen 2 models of SD Express cards, one available almost nowhere, and another one from a not well-known brand. I wonder if Nintendo would collab with SanDisk to make custom ones like their current Nintendo-branded SD Cards...
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Theoretically speaking, I don't see why Nintendo couldn't support both UFS and microSD cards for the external flash storage. Samsung has developed a slot that accepts both UFS and microSD cards.

And I don't see why not since Nintendo has been working with SanDisk on Nintendo branded UHS-I microSD cards for the Nintendo Switch.
ReddDreadtheLead said:
Actually I think T239 has UFS support like ORIN, built in

ie, it has the IP for its format
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But the question is what UFS controller Drake uses.

There's a possibility Drake uses the same UFS 3.0 controller as Orin, which in that case, UFS 3.1 and UFS 4.0 obviously aren't supported.

But assuming Nintendo and Nvidia updated the UFS controller for Drake, at best, I expect UFS 3.1 support since the UFS 4.0 controller was probably finalised after Drake was probably taped out during 1H 2022 (here and here).
 
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Giancarlo said:
this is very worrysome and strange, considering we have a very packed first half of the year, i dont believe Nintendo dont have any game planned for the second half of the year, we need to know what will be the holiday game this year, it cant be the Pokemon Scarlet e Violet DLC, it must be something else
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They'll need to announce something, and if the insiders are still saying no June direct, then it's going to be a late summer direct. It would be baffling if we don't get a direct until September with nothing launching in June or August and only a July pikmin release.
 
Dakhil said:
Theoretically speaking, I don't see why Nintendo couldn't support both UFS and microSD cards for the external flash storage. Samsung has developed a slot that accepts both UFS and microSD cards.

And I don't see why not since Nintendo has been working with SanDisk on Nintendo branded UHS-I microSD cards for the Nintendo Switch.

But the question is what UFS controller Drake uses.

There's a possibility Drake uses the same UFS 3.0 controller as Orin, which in that case,UFS 3.1 and UFS 4.0 obviously aren't supported.

But assuming Nintendo and Nvidia updated the UFS controller for Drake, at best, I expect UFS 3.1 support since the UFS 4.0 controller was probably finalised after Drake was probably taped out during 1H 2022 (here and here).
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I think, regardless of what controller it uses, the fact that it has the controller for UFS is already a pretty interesting mark on it
 
NateDrake said:
Well, about that...
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I have no idea what @NateDrake is talking about, but it is most likely that he doesn't know if a general direct is coming, so if in case we get a partners direct or nothing in June, maybe Nintendo wants their 1st party/2nd party lineup in late H2 2023 to be only Switch 2 games?
 
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Dekuman said:
They'll need to announce something, and if the insiders are still saying no June direct, then it's going to be a late summer direct. It would be baffling if we don't get a direct until September with nothing launching in June or August and only a July pikmin release.
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Or no Directs. Just twitter drops/surprise Youtube uploads. Would be the simplest way to keep the risk of leaks low.
 
Hosermess said:
Or no Directs. Just twitter drops/surprise Youtube uploads. Would be the simplest way to keep the risk of leaks low.
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Dakhil said:
Theoretically speaking, I don't see why Nintendo couldn't support both UFS and microSD cards for the external flash storage. Samsung has developed a slot that accepts both UFS and microSD cards.

And I don't see why not since Nintendo has been working with SanDisk on Nintendo branded UHS-I microSD cards for the Nintendo Switch.

But the question is what UFS controller Drake uses.

There's a possibility Drake uses the same UFS 3.0 controller as Orin, which in that case, UFS 3.1 and UFS 4.0 obviously aren't supported.

But assuming Nintendo and Nvidia updated the UFS controller for Drake, at best, I expect UFS 3.1 support since the UFS 4.0 controller was probably finalised after Drake was probably taped out during 1H 2022 (here and here).
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I know its Apples and Oranges, but the Samsung S23 got already released with UFS 4. Beside being a premium product (too costly), what would Nintendo stops them from releasing with UFS 4? Or does Mobile Phones have a so much faster production cycle?
Of course, no one would assume Nintendo would do such a thing, but NVidia is another beast, I would assume they would be capable of handling cutting edge tech well, so what does they make different to Samsung? Or is it "just" that Samsung as a huge mega company with Storage department was capable of doing this cutting edge thing?
 
superinkLN said:
Think we will get any announcements tomorrow at the investors meeting?
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No, but I do suspect they will be answering a few questions from investors on future hardware and software. New hardware is pretty easy for them to deflect, but the fact that they will be questioned on what exactly is expected to keep demand high for Switch with only one game announced and dated beyond Zelda TotK. As an investor who would be worried about stock value, seeing a roadmap to nowhere doesn't provide confidence. Nintendo does have some responsibility to these people to provide some insight into the future, even if they are relatively vague. So I do not expect any meaty announcements, but I could see them saying something like "we are always working on new hardware but have nothing to announce today." Same goes with software, "we have numerous titles that we will be announcing in the future." There is a chance that new hardware for this fiscal year could be shot down. Nintendo has outright said at investors meetings before that no new hardware for the upcoming fiscal year is planned, and they will probably field a question or two that ask exactly that.
 
I expect we’ll get something out of the investor meeting. Probably not an announcement, but we’ll get a few crumbs of info that I’m sure we’ll over analyze. Investors aren’t going to be happy with an “uncharted waters” statement again. So Nintendo will have to say something, be it hints at software for H2, a morsel of info on future hardware, or a tongue in cheek way of saying that they’re just going to coast thru H2 with evergreen titles and DLC. Either way there will be something for us to chew on, be it good or bad.

…. I’m using a lot of food idioms. It may be time for dinner.
 
invwar said:
I know its Apples and Oranges, but the Samsung S23 got already released with UFS 4. Beside being a premium product (too costly), what would Nintendo stops them from releasing with UFS 4? Or does Mobile Phones have a so much faster production cycle?
Of course, no one would assume Nintendo would do such a thing, but NVidia is another beast, I would assume they would be capable of handling cutting edge tech well, so what does they make different to Samsung? Or is it "just" that Samsung as a huge mega company with Storage department was capable of doing this cutting edge thing?
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The UFS 4.0 controller not being ready before Drake's taped out, assuming Drake's taped out at 1H 2022 (here and here).

If the AGX Orin block diagram (here and here) is any indication, the UFS controller is directly integrated into the SoC, which means Nintendo and Nvidia needs to decide which UFS controller to use before taping out Drake.

The UFS 4.0 specs were published by JEDEC on 17 August 2022. And the first smartphone equipped with the Snapdragon 8 Gen 2, which supports UFS 4.0, was released on 6 December 2022. So I think the only way Drake supports UFS 4.0 is if Nintendo and Nvidia decided to tape out Drake on August 2022 or later, which is when I think the UFS 4.0 controller becomes available to use. But there's evidence that strongly implies Drake's probably taped out during 1H 2022. And I doubt the UFS 4.0 controller was available to be used during 1H 2022.
 
I know it’s not the same as the end of the Wii U era, I get that, but investors will genuinely not be impressed if they say basically nothing tomorrow.

They’re gonna have to give some sort of expectation of future plans, like we have two intitled movies coming, one in 2025 and the other 2026.
Imagine if Apple just stopped producing any products at all and it had been years and investors asked what their future plans are and they just kept saying, well our old devices are still selling just fine so I don’t know what you have to complain about.

Investors typically invest because of where a company is going or what the expectations of success will be, they’re not really interested in short term.
The only thing Nintendo can tell them is there is another theme park opening and they have Pikmin 4 on the horizon.

If they just give “we’re always looking for new ways to engage our fan base” or “we’re always working on new hardware and ways to bring new players in and engage them” investors are gonna be unimpressed and worried about their investment. You can lump me in with that group, despite the fact that of course there’s going to be new hardware, I do see nothing on the horizon.
 
syrozz said:
Please be exited.
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laughs

Hosermess said:
Or no Directs. Just twitter drops/surprise Youtube uploads. Would be the simplest way to keep the risk of leaks low.
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I mean, the Switch was technically a video drop that was announced a day before

Goodtwin said:
Nintendo has outright said at investors meetings before that no new hardware for the upcoming fiscal year is planned, and they will probably field a question or two that ask exactly that.
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If Nintendo denies hardware for this fiscal year, then it pretty much cements it’ll be another year with the current ecosystem
 
Might be controversial, but if Nintendo goes with UFS 3.0 I think they will use UFS 3.0 for external also, either by partnering with SanDisk, Samsung etc to use UFS card or by using a proprietary interface connected to a UFS 3.0 chip, like a second game card slot on the bottom you slot your Switch Memory Expansion into.

Microsoft did it with the series consoles, no reason Nintendo can't.
 
ShaunSwitch said:
Might be controversial, but if Nintendo goes with UFS 3.0 I think they will use UFS 3.0 for external also, either by partnering with SanDisk, Samsung etc to use UFS card or by using a proprietary interface connected to a UFS 3.0 chip, like a second game card slot on the bottom you slot your Switch Memory Expansion into.

Microsoft did it with the series consoles, no reason Nintendo can't.
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Is that necessary when JEDEC already published the specs for UFS Card 3.0?
 
superinkLN said:
What time is investors report at?
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Based on a little research, the convocation notices from previous years show the shareholder meetings starting at 10am Tokyo time (which translates to later today [roughly 6-9pm depending on where you live] in the US). (source)

I'm not an expert on the subject, feel free to update me if I'm missing something. Maybe the Q&A or public release is at a later time or date, etc.

Edit: public release is 4pm JST according to these fami posts [1] [2]

Edit 2 (a day later/for posterity): I was actually looking at shareholder meetings for the above info, which is actually scheduled for June 23, 2023. This recent event on May 9, 2023 was the Earnings Release & Financial Results Briefing. So many corporate events... [the_more_you_know.mp4]
 
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NintenDuvo said:
I know this has nothing to do with hardware but do you guys think we will have Metroid Prime sales in the results?
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Definitely. It released almost 2 months before the end of the quarter.
I think it needs at least 1M sales to be mentioned, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did better numbers than Dread.
The shadow-drop and physical release 2 weeks later made a lot of people double dip, and the $40 price tag was very appealing.
 
ronf said:
Based on a little research, the convocation notices from previous years show the shareholder meetings starting at 10am Tokyo time (which translates to later today [roughly 6-9pm depending on where you live] in the US). (source)

I'm not an expert on the subject, feel free to update me if I'm missing something. Maybe the Q&A or public release is at a later time or date, etc.
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Does anyone know how much time between a meeting and Nintendo posting the Q&A?
 
Thraktor said:
I don't think UFS 4.0 is particularly likely, but I agree that UFS 3.0/3.1 is on the table. Google released the Pixel 7 Pro back in October with 128GB of UFS 3.1 storage, and Counterpoint Research published a supplier breakdown from their BoM analysis of the phone in February. SK Hynix provides the UFS, and they reportedly accounted for 4% of the BoM. With the total coming to $413, this would mean the UFS cost approximately $16.52. However, flash prices have been dropping significantly over the past year and will continue to do so.

Counterpoint don't make it clear whether they're using prices as of the initial manufacturing of the Pixel 7 Pro or as of the writing of the report. If they're taking prices as of the initial manufacturing, with a new Nintendo console releasing a year later, then Trendforce estimates of UFS pricing suggest an approximately 44% drop in prices over that period, which would push the price of a 128GB UFS 3.1 module down to around $9.25. Even if the price quoted was for the start of 2023 and Nintendo is purchasing in mid-2023, then you'd still expect an approximately 22% drop in prices, down to around $12.88. These prices should continue to drop, if you're expecting a launch in 2024. I can't find a good source for how much 32GB eMMC would have cost Nintendo in 2017, but I would be surprised if it were significantly below $10.
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Weird that the BOM link for the Pixel Pro 7 says
"Meanwhile, Micron and Samsung together provide the 12GB LPDDR5." How can they both be used for the RAM? Hmm.

Other than that, the vast majority of the Pixel 7 Pro's BOM is from Samsung (over 50%) parts.

I've brought this up before, but it would not surprise me if Nintendo did the same. The screen, the RAM, the potential UFS 3.1 storage, the wifi (5G), audio, and of course--the node (5nm). Samsung 5nm node might just be cheaper than tsmc 4nm per wafer, if Samsung offered a massive discount by having Nintendo getting more Samsung parts (or something like Pixel Pro 7). It just makes sense from a cost perspective.

ziggyrivers said:
Also, I’d like to mention a small idea:

• Perhaps redacted will launch with two SKUs:
— Just the console
— Console w/ a game

I mentioned this because:
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I only see this if they are releasing a SKU with more storage. Otherwise console+game would have to be at a discounted price vs console. I forgot if the 16GB Wii U SKU came with Nintendoland, but the 32GB black model did, along with (obviously) twice storage and other stuff (online related).

I'd love a 128/256 and 256/512 GB SKU at $400 and $450 MAX.
 
ronf said:
Based on a little research, the convocation notices from previous years show the shareholder meetings starting at 10am Tokyo time (which translates to later today [roughly 6-9pm depending on where you live] in the US). (source)

I'm not an expert on the subject, feel free to update me if I'm missing something. Maybe the Q&A or public release is at a later time or date, etc.
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In other words: As long no one of us participating at the meeting (I wouldnt expect that), it is save to just go sleep and wake up. If I remember correctly, the website usually gets updated around afternoon, 4pm-ish. That's also the time usually the first reports get out.
So I expect first news around 4pm/9am/8am/3am/0am JST/CET/BST/EST/PST
 
superinkLN said:
Think we will get any announcements tomorrow at the investors meeting?
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I feel like they have to address it one way or another vs just deflecting. Next FY sales are shaping up to be 14m or less, and software will continue to drop as well. They'll be taking it on the chin if their future plans are simply "we have nothing to announce at this time". Particularly after missing their forecasts pretty badly this FY.
 
Nintendo earnings are so fun for me bc I love updating my sales database. Plus comparing My software estimates to their results. At times, I’ve been within 1% of actual.

I’m ready, teddy.
 
invwar said:
In other words: As long no one of us participating at the meeting (I wouldnt expect that), it is save to just go sleep and wake up. If I remember correctly, the website usually gets updated around afternoon, 4pm-ish. That's also the time usually the first reports get out.
So I expect first news around 4pm/9am/8am/3am/0am JST/CET/BST/EST/PST
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Yeah, usually when I wake up it is up on the website.
 
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ShadowFox08 said:
I'd love a 128/256 and 256/512 GB SKU at $400 and $450 MAX.
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I would seriously dislike different SKUs, I always hate them. Most of the time they are anyway placed to trigger FOMO. I would definitely prefer a 128/256 Base model with UFS 3.0/1 and the ability to purchase branded UFS 3.0 cards as storage addon with the option for MicroSD as cold storage.
 
How does UFS 3.0 compare to the SSDs in the other two consoles? It sounds pretty fast. The specs I just looked up said sequential read of 2.1 GB/s, but I don't know how big a deal that is. Way faster than Switch anyway.
 
neil said:
How does UFS 3.0 compare to the SSDs in the other two consoles? It sounds pretty fast. The specs I just looked up said sequential read of 2.1 GB/s, but I don't know how big a deal that is. Way faster than Switch anyway.
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2.1GB/s is a few hundred MB short of what Series S/X provides for their storage (which is 2.4GB/s), but really, REDACTED doesn't need that much.
 
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