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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

Reader mode
mariodk18 said:
Wasn’t the entire reason Furukawa was selected as CEO to prevent “Nintendo gonna Nintendo”?
Click to expand...
He's business oriented, and not ideological. Which to me is a relief because "reduce variables, optimise supply lines, make a console good enough to run Gen 9 games" sounds like a sound business move, and it's exactly what I want out of it.
 
Goodtwin said:
I get that, but there is a lot that can be said without saying too much. If there is indeed nothing going on, there is no NDA demanding developers not speak of hardware that doesn't exist, so developers could freely and openly say that to their knowledge new Nintendo hardware doesn't exist. Assuming it does exist, something like yea it's coming and it's coming sooner than you would think or later than you would hope is saying a lot while saying nothing, and really doesn't risk and NDA backlash.
Click to expand...
If the discussions are that they are not aware of anything, then that type of information will be relayed. Though I doubt people would accept that reality, if that is case.
 
NateDrake said:
If the discussions are that they are not aware of anything, then that type of information will be relayed. Though I doubt people would accept that reality, if that is case.
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The obvious question is why do we know so little regardless of GDC. Is Nintendo's NDA that air tight or is the console simply not as far along as we thought?
 
Dekuman said:
The obvious question is why do we know so little regardless of GDC. Is Nintendo's NDA that air tight or is the console simply not as far along as we thought?
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There is chatter behind-the-scenes but nothing significant enough that one would consider reporting on at the moment, as many of the details going around right now are preliminary and likely to change. GDC will be the first time to see who knows what & who has been briefed, if at all.
 
MusicProposition said:
I don’t agree. Saying Nintendo is gonna do something wild doesn’t mean that they are not functioning in business. I’d even say that because they’re often doing the unexpected, they have a special value for the industry, journalists and their fans. That doesn’t make “Nintendo gonna Nintendo” a better argument, it’s still a vague thing to say, but there’s no denying that whenever the next console’s gonna come, there’s gonna be some kind of weird surprise.
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There is a difference between doing some wild & describing the illogical. This started because Nintendo removing tensor cores was seen as something reasonable they would do. If no one knows what Nintendo is doing then it would make the company very hard to invest in thus become non-functioning. A surprise could very well be in the next device but it will be rooted in logic.
Hocot8 said:
I mean I disagree somewhat. For me it's more like how people say Apple gonna Apple. Nintendo sometimes just makes interesting and/or dumb decisions. Not saying that's viable in this discussion but using this discussion to generalize the entire term and everyone who uses it is, ironically, lazy.

Yes there are definitely bad faith actors or ignorant people who just spit that term out but they are not the only people using the term "Nintendo gonna Nintendo."
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Who says I was only talking about those people. I’ve heard it from Easy Allies to Spawn Wave to Digital Foundry. And, that’s not an exhaustive list. If it only was describing their decisions that’s one thing but it’s often short hand for just accepting really fantastical scenarios like removing tensor cores “because Nintendo.”
Tron1 said:
The way I use it and most people do is Nintendo makes decisions that only they would make. For example creating a phone app to online chap instead of using the standard method. That’s Nintendo being Nintendo. Trying too hard to be different and outside of the box when there was NO need to.
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While they may make decisions only they would do, there are reasons for them more often then not. Your example of voice chat has reasons for them not implanting it on a system level other then trying to be different or outside the box. Whether you agree with the decision or not is a conversation that can be had; but variations of “because Nintendo” don’t really lead to much.
 
Concernt said:
We know a fuck tonne. A quite literally unprecedented amount.
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We know a lot except for

1. How powerful the system is
2. Any of the defining features of the system
3. When it will release
4. What games will it release with
5. What price it will target
6. What storage it will have
7. How much RAM it will have
8. How backwards compatibility will work
9. The name
10. What battery is it using
11. What is the screen
12. Basically everything other than the chip design

..... And the chip design with no clock knowledge doesn't seem very useful.
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
We know a lot except for

1. How powerful the system is
2. Any of the defining features of the system
3. When it will release
4. What games will it release with
5. What price it will target
6. What storage it will have
7. How much RAM it will have
8. How backwards compatibility will work
9. The name
10. What battery is it using
11. What is the screen
12. Basically everything other than the chip design

..... And the chip design with no clock knowledge doesn't seem very useful.
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And yet still unprecedented!

We knew less about Nintendo Switch until the actual day it was revealed. Get a little perspective.
 
Concernt said:
And yet still unprecedented!

We knew less about Nintendo Switch until the actual day it was revealed. Get a little perspective.
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I'm saying that if the Switch 2 is releasing soon, it will almost surely start getting a lot of non-criminal leaks extremely soon.

If it's two weeks after GDC and there's no WSJ or Bloomberg article about the Switch 2 launching this year, it becomes very likely the Switch 2 is 2024+
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
We know a lot except for

1. How powerful the system is
2. Any of the defining features of the system
3. When it will release
4. What games will it release with
5. What price it will target
6. What storage it will have
7. How much RAM it will have
8. How backwards compatibility will work
9. The name
10. What battery is it using
11. What is the screen
12. Basically everything other than the chip design

..... And the chip design with no clock knowledge doesn't seem very useful.
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... knowing the design of the chip is indeed an incredible amount of information. We know its ballpark performance for GPU, CPU and RAM, and we know that the chip supports DLSS. That is a lot to know about an unannounced product that is at least 8 months away. Sure, we don't know the clock, but we still have an idea of the rough performance level. It's not like we can download information from Furukawa's Neuralink. Information about unannounced systems is obviously going to be sparse.

That doesn't mean we know it'll be released this year, of course. But there is no reason to think we should know more by now if 2023 were in the cards, either.
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
I'm saying that if the Switch 2 is releasing soon, it will almost surely start getting a lot of non-criminal leaks extremely soon.

If it's two weeks after GDC and there's no WSJ or Bloomberg article about the Switch 2 launching this year, it becomes very likely the Switch 2 is 2024+
Click to expand...
Criminality has absolutely nothing to do with whether something is true or not, you realise?

And that breaking NDA is... Kind of illegal?

And that you know. We had a major publisher leak that 11 Devs had kits? It's naïve to think Nintendo didn't try and plug leaks after some the so big.

Looking for reasons to doubt rather than actual evidence isn't helpful.

And even then, to assume we are in the dark is to disregard every factory leak, every 4chan leak, even the leaks posted here directly. I don't really consider them any less trustworthy than any other leaker, so why the disregard? Preference? Preference isn't factual.
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
We know a lot except for

1. How powerful the system is
2. Any of the defining features of the system
3. When it will release
4. What games will it release with
5. What price it will target
6. What storage it will have
7. How much RAM it will have
8. How backwards compatibility will work
9. The name
10. What battery is it using
11. What is the screen
12. Basically everything other than the chip design

..... And the chip design with no clock knowledge doesn't seem very useful.
Click to expand...
I don't think you realize how rare we know about the chip of a system this far from release
 
ReddDreadtheLead said:
Never know what they’ll do, but people always use their past as a reason to know what they will do and why they do it? pick one.
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No we use the past to say they are not predictable.
Tentacle-tropes said:
There is a difference between doing some wild & describing the illogical. This started because Nintendo removing tensor cores was seen as something reasonable they would do. If no one knows what Nintendo is doing then it would make the company very hard to invest in thus become non-functioning. A surprise could very well be in the next device but it will be rooted in logic.

Who says I was only talking about those people. I’ve heard it from Easy Allies to Spawn Wave to Digital Foundry. And, that’s not an exhaustive list. If it only was describing their decisions that’s one thing but it’s often short hand for just accepting really fantastical scenarios like removing tensor cores “because Nintendo.”

While they may make decisions only they would do, there are reasons for them more often then not. Your example of voice chat has reasons for them not implanting it on a system level other then trying to be different or outside the box. Whether you agree with the decision or not is a conversation that can be had; but variations of “because Nintendo” don’t really lead to much.
Click to expand...
The issue is it can alienates devs. There have been multiple games that haven’t come to switch because of the online environment and lack of “standardization.” Why force a dev to create a game then have to do something different that adds little to no value. Just keep it simple and make things like voice chat standard.
 
Concernt said:
Criminality has absolutely nothing to do with whether something is true or not, you realise?

And that breaking NDA is... Kind of illegal?

And that you know. We had a major publisher leak that 11 Devs had kits? It's naïve to think Nintendo didn't try and plug leaks after some the so big.

Looking for reasons to doubt rather than actual evidence isn't helpful.

And even then, to assume we are in the dark is to disregard every factory leak, every 4chan leak, even the leaks posted here directly. I don't really consider them any less trustworthy than any other leaker, so why the disregard? Preference? Preference isn't factual.
Click to expand...

Yes, I find 4chan and random Chinese forums significantly less reliable than the WSJ news section.
 
Concernt said:
We know a fuck tonne. A quite literally unprecedented amount.
Click to expand...
We know a lot from leaks and prior reporting.
We also know a Switch revision/pro was cancelled
We haven't heard very many new things since last year.

There's a possibility what we know is no longer the hardware being worked on even if it is still alive in some form.
 
Dekuman said:
We know a lot from leaks and prior reporting.
We also know a Switch revision/pro was cancelled
We haven't heard very many new things since last year.

There's a possibility what we know is no longer the hardware being worked on even if it is still alive in some form.
Click to expand...
We don't know if a "pro" system was cancelled. As I've expressed before I have a feeling it was less cancelled and more taken in a different direction (OLED), if it existed at all.
 
Bosintang said:
I don't think that we know that.
Click to expand...
We don't 100% know that but Nate and DF both heard something got canned. This was reported earlier this year in relation to a hardware revision earlier.

I wish we knew more, like the target date of hardware etc. But we have to be careful of things we think are locked down. While t239 remains the best candidate, we dont know if that's really for Switch or if it was involved in a cancellation
 
Dekuman said:
We don't 100% know that but Nate and DF both heard something got canned. This was reported earlier this year in relation to a hardware revision earlier.

I wish we knew more, like the target date of hardware etc. But we have to be careful of things we think are locked down. While t239 remains the best candidate, we dont know if that's really for Switch or if it was involved in a cancellation
Click to expand...
Somehow I doubt Nvidia would tape out, manufacture, test, and develop software for a chip that's completely canned. That's not being level headed about leaks, that's being unrealistic about how chips are developed. Cancellation usually doesn't mean adding software support months after tape out.
 
Hermii said:
Imo Nintendo only "cares" about power, to the extent that it gives them more games on their platform.

They don't care about competing in a Digital Foundry pissing contest, they just want to have the game on their platform at all.
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Disagree. The sub-par performance we've seen from many of Nintendo's games on Switch shows that some of their own projects are too ambitious for the current hardware.

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
The 3DS was a bit of a disaster because Nintendo bet on the idea that 3D was popular and was going to blow up with James Cameron's Avatar... But people didn't care about 3D.

The 3D error is much more understandable (everyone in Hollywood thought 3D was going to be popular as well) than the "people want the portability of gaming... in just one room when the TV is used by someone else"
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This keeps being repeated but Nintendo had decided on the 3DS’ concept about a year before Avatar came out in theatres, and they were already experimenting with glasses-free 3D on the GBA and the GC.

Nintendo’s interest in 3D likely stems from them paving the way for 3D gameplay on the N64. They pretty much established most of the standard 3D game design conventions and are keenly aware of the limitations of 3D gameplay without visual depth perception. The 3DS was their first official attempt at solving some of these problems, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they decided to try again with another technology in the future.
 
John Omaha said:
Disagree. The sub-par performance we've seen from many of Nintendo's games on Switch shows that their own projects are too ambitious for the current hardware.


This keeps being repeated but Nintendo had decided on the 3DS’ concept about a year before Avatar came out in theatres, and they were already experimenting with glasses-free 3D on the GBA and the GC.

Nintendo’s interest in 3D likely stems from them paving the way for 3D gameplay on the N64. They pretty much established most of the standard 3D game design conventions and are keenly aware of the limitations of 3D gameplay without visual depth perception.
Click to expand...

Avatar and 3D was being hugely hyped up even by then. If Nintendo made the call just because they were annoyed by depth perception in 3D, then that would be a massively worse decision making process, lol.

Regardless, no one ended up caring about 3D and made the visuals on the 3DS much worse (due to forcing a 240p screen) while increasing the price.
 
John Omaha said:
Disagree. The sub-par performance we've seen from many of Nintendo's games on Switch shows that some of their own projects are too ambitious for the current hardware.


This keeps being repeated but Nintendo had decided on the 3DS’ concept about a year before Avatar came out in theatres, and they were already experimenting with glasses-free 3D on the GBA and the GC.

Nintendo’s interest in 3D likely stems from them paving the way for 3D gameplay on the N64. They pretty much established most of the standard 3D game design conventions and are keenly aware of the limitations of 3D gameplay without visual depth perception. The 3DS was their first official attempt at solving some of these problems, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they decided to try again with another technology in the future.
Click to expand...

How could they try again with 3D, they don't make dedicated handhelds anymore and 3D TVs are completely dead.

Nintendo will probably make a VR headset in 15-20 years, but that's a very different concept.
 
John Omaha said:
Disagree. The sub-par performance we've seen from many of Nintendo's games on Switch shows that some of their own projects are too ambitious for the current hardware.
Click to expand...
That doesn't necessarily prove they care about power. I doubt they care about things like ray-tracing and more fiddly bits beyond resolution. I think Nintendo just cares about power enough as a means to an end, not to be on the absolute cutting edge.
 
NateDrake said:
If the discussions are that they are not aware of anything, then that type of information will be relayed. Though I doubt people would accept that reality, if that is case.
Click to expand...
Why should "they are not aware of anything" being said (by sources we can't know or evaluate) at GDC be something we care about, though? I don't get this narrative that GDC is a hotbed of info about Nintendo's unannounced plans in the first place. There was no hardware news from GDC in 2016, even though development materials had been distributed since at least October 2015, plus the NX's release date and Zelda launch were announced at that time and it was a huge topic of discussion. It wasn't until Eurogamer's report on July 30 that any concrete information about this massively anticipated new system came out, which Eurogamer said was based on a wide briefing of third parties and other partners. An absence-of-evidence argument based on GDC of all things seems pretty meaningless.
 
Mer.Saloon said:
That doesn't necessarily prove they care about power. I doubt they care about things like ray-tracing and more fiddly bits beyond resolution. I think Nintendo just cares about power enough as a means to an end, not to be on the absolute cutting edge.
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RT and Tensor cores are pretty unique in GPU hardware as far as enabling new gameplay is concerned. Imagine light bouncing puzzles that didn't suck and worked dynamically with materials rather than being one ugly shield!

Looking at you, Ocarina of Time...
 
LiC said:
Why should "they are not aware of anything" being said (by sources we can't know or evaluate) at GDC be something we care about, though? I don't get this narrative that GDC is a hotbed of info about Nintneod's unannounced plans in the first place. There was no hardware news from GDC in 2016, even though development materials had been distributed since at least October 2015, plus the NX's release date and Zelda launch were announced at that time and it was a huge topic of discussion. It wasn't until Eurogamer's report on July 30 that any concrete information about this massively anticipated new system came out, which Eurogamer said was based on a wide briefing of third parties and other partners. An absence-of-evidence argument based on GDC of all things seems pretty meaningless.
Click to expand...
You misunderstand. If developers at GDC are saying they have no knowledge of any hardware plans in 2023, then that type of info could be relayed by an outlet or personality, if they see it fit to do so. If they have knowledge, you may not hear anything due to the NDA in place and no one wanting to report it. No one is saying you'll get anything from GDC in either case.

In truth, most of what is going to be discussed and shared at GDC will be under frien-da and be treated as industry talk amongst friends.
 
NateDrake said:
You misunderstand. If developers at GDC are saying they have no knowledge of any hardware plans in 2023, then that type of info could be relayed by an outlet or personality, if they see it fit to do so. If they have knowledge, you may not hear anything due to the NDA in place and no one wanting to report it. No one is saying you'll get anything from GDC in either case.

In truth, most of what is going to be discussed and shared at GDC will be under frien-da and be treated as industry talk amongst friends.
Click to expand...
I meant the bit about "accepting reality." If I hear relayed from GDC that some people said they haven't heard anything, I'll believe the reality that they haven't heard anything. That just wouldn't convince me that nothing is happening (absence of evidence not being evidence of absence).
 
LiC said:
I meant the bit about "accepting reality." If I hear relayed from GDC that some people said they haven't heard anything, I'll believe the reality that they haven't heard anything. That just wouldn't convince me that nothing is happening (absence of evidence not being evidence of absence).
Click to expand...

Absence of evidence from a major event is probably suggestive of a launch that is not in 2023 as the Switch 2 would have to release within 8 months of GDC to be 2023.
 
The "Nintendo is unpredictable" narrative only exists because people are so desperate to predict things. I don't think any company's decisions are especially predictable by enthusiasts. Companies are complex networks of people all making decisions, and any given choice could be due to some well thought out strategy or somebody high up getting wined and dined by a vendor.

The other issue with that narrative is that often people's "predictions" are actually their desires. "Of course Nintendo is gonna do X! It's so obvious! They would be crazy not to!" That's either an expression of intense confidence or desperation. Luckily, we've evolved beyond that, and in this thread overconfidence is certainly not an expression of people's sublimated desires. Don't be ridiculous.
 
Based on Nintendo's comments I don't see a system launch happening in 2023. Most of what I get from their communication is the Switch is in uncharted area and they expect a drop but intend to communucate value as best as possible. I still think we're looking at Q1 2024, Mayhe Q2 (April-ish).

They are going to get beat up on their share price until they announce something so I do think they'll say something sooner or later but I don't get the impression a hardware launch is in the cards right now. Their FY forecast in May should shed some light.
 
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ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Avatar and 3D was being hugely hyped up even by then. If Nintendo made the call just because they were annoyed by depth perception in 3D, then that would be a massively worse decision making process, lol.

Regardless, no one ended up caring about 3D and made the visuals on the 3DS much worse (due to forcing a 240p screen) while increasing the price.
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Nintendo decided on the 3DS in early 2009, well before 3D hype went into overdrive. They were even surprised when everyone started talking about 3D while the 3DS was in development.

I also disagree with the bolded. 3D gameplay is generally slower, less precise and requires all kinds of cues and tells to make up for the lack of depth perception (and the need to constantly adjust the camera with the right analog). Solving that issue would open up lots of new gameplay possibilities - the 3DS was just too primitive to really do something about it.

Mer.Saloon said:
That doesn't necessarily prove they care about power. I doubt they care about things like ray-tracing and more fiddly bits beyond resolution. I think Nintendo just cares about power enough as a means to an end, not to be on the absolute cutting edge.
Click to expand...
Pretty much. I think they care about power for their own ends (including raytracing if there is a case for it in their games) much more than to get some ports.
 
John Omaha said:
Nintendo decided on the 3DS in early 2009, well before 3D hype went into overdrive. They were even surprised when everyone started talking about 3D while the 3DS was in development.

I also disagree with the bolded. 3D gameplay is generally slower, less precise and requires all kinds of cues and tells to make up for the lack of depth perception (and the need to constantly adjust the camera with the right analog). Solving that issue would open up lots of new gameplay possibilities - the 3DS was just too primitive to really do something about it.


Pretty much. I think they care about power for their own ends (including raytracing if there is a case for it in their games) much more than to get some ports.
Click to expand...

Literally what could make the 3D good enough to where it's possible to tell precisely how far away character X is from character Y.

There seems to have been no improvements in consumer 3D whatsoever in the last decade in entertainment.
 
Gotdatmoneyy said:
Based on Nintendo's comments I don't see a system launch happening in 2023. Most of what I get from their communication is the Switch is in uncharted area and they expect a drop but intend to communucate value as best as possible. I still think we're looking at Q1 2024, Mayhe Q2 (April-ish).

They are going to get beat up on their share price until they announce something so I do think they'll say something sooner or later but I don't get the impression a hardware launch is in the cards right now. Their FY forecast in May should shed some light.
Click to expand...
I feel confident we will have a new console by Q1 24 at the latest.
 
Tron1 said:
No we use the past to say they are not predictable.
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This makes no sense since investors, analysts, & others use past actions to establish patterns in Nintendo’s business & predict their future moves. They really aren’t that unpredictable as people claim they are.
Tron1 said:
The issue is it can alienates devs. There have been multiple games that haven’t come to switch because of the online environment and lack of “standardization.” Why force a dev to create a game then have to do something different that adds little to no value. Just keep it simple and make things like voice chat standard.
Click to expand...
Such as? Voice chat is bottom of the totem pole for why a dev may not bring a game over on Switch. What are they forcing on the dev? If the dev wants to implement voice chat then they can. If they don’t they can just not. I’m not seeing an issue here nor how this issue can potentially alienate devs. As for online environment, what specifically is being talked about; because from what it was reportedly about mtx generation on a Nintendo system.
 
will the switch 2 automatically improve performance on titles already owned? i.e. games that don’t run particularly well on switch but could with an extra boost of power. or would they need to be patched to take advantage?
 
Dekuman said:
We don't 100% know that but Nate and DF both heard something got canned. This was reported earlier this year in relation to a hardware revision earlier.

I wish we knew more, like the target date of hardware etc. But we have to be careful of things we think are locked down. While t239 remains the best candidate, we dont know if that's really for Switch or if it was involved in a cancellation
Click to expand...

I trust DF when it comes to counting pixels and frames.
I trust Nate Drake when it comes to the date of a direct, a few weeks ahead.

But I trust neither when it comes to something as big as Nintendo's next hardware; and certainly not when their claim is outlandish in the face of the body of evidence which we have.
 
theguy said:
will the switch 2 automatically improve performance on titles already owned? i.e. games that don’t run particularly well on switch but could with an extra boost of power. or would they need to be patched to take advantage?
Click to expand...
We don't know the details of how BC will be implemented, but my gut says yes.
 
theguy said:
will the switch 2 automatically improve performance on titles already owned? i.e. games that don’t run particularly well on switch but could with an extra boost of power. or would they need to be patched to take advantage?
Click to expand...
They'd need a patch to go beyond their capabilities on the current Switch (e.g. bringing a game from 30 to 60fps or from 1080p to 4K), but maybe games that have big framerate dips (like Age of Calamity) or dynamic resolution can stay at a more stable framerate/higher resolution.
 
I know it won't happen but I wish Nintendo brought back 3D Stereoscopic screen. It would look so much better on a larger 720p screen. Then for table top play they can do that think which Sony did with one of their 3D monitors where each player see their own fill screen due to the position of where they are sitting. Also it would give ports of old game a new life. Something like a port of let's say Sonic Generations, would be more of the same, but if I knew Switch version has stereoscopic 3D then that would get me to want to play it on Switch over PS5, Steam Deck and etc.
 
Dakhil said:
DisplayPort 1.2 (here, here, and here)
(The OLED model's dock receives the DisplayPort 1.2 signals from the OLED model.)
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That's the DisplayPort version the OLED model itself supports, not the version the dock supports.

The chip used in the dock is a Realtek RTD2172N, as per this photo:


There aren't any specifications for it online (the N indicates it might be somewhat customised for Nintendo), but there is an Anandtech article about the RTD2173. This is a DisplayPort 1.4 to HDMI 2.1 converter, with the article focussing on HDMI 2.1 support, so it's reasonable to expect that RTD2172 is probably a DisplayPort 1.4 to HDMI 2.0 converter.
 
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