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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)
- Thread starter Dakhil
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D
Deleted member 887
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To help calibrate pessimism/optimism, Nvidia was adding Linux support for T239 as late as mid-November.
NateDrake
Chain Chomp
A lot of the GDC discussion will be subject to "frien-da" but some details may be permitted.
Besides the fact that the cancellation rumor is absolutely baseless and pushed by people who have proven to be unreliable several times on such topic, I haven't seen anyone capable of explaining why would exactly Nintendo cancel a piece of hardware so far in development, so close to its release, without any plan B to replace their aging main source of income, and at the exact moment where the bottlenecks from the COVID crisis are being lifted at every level. Bottlenecks which didn't prevent their two competitors to release their much more materials hungry toys in the middle of the said crisis, by the way.
Unless Furukawa is secretly Elon Musk and we're in the middle of a Scooby-Doo-inspired dystopian nightmare where he drives Nintendo to the ground, the Drake switch isn't getting cancelled.
Unless Furukawa is secretly Elon Musk and we're in the middle of a Scooby-Doo-inspired dystopian nightmare where he drives Nintendo to the ground, the Drake switch isn't getting cancelled.
OP
OP
LiC
Member
I don't think Splatoon DLC and hardware have anything to do with each other. But frankly I don't think this Spanish ad is revealing actual info, it's probably just a bad adaptation of the "by 12/31/24" placeholder date which the DLC currently has on the eShop.
AxkilAvenger
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this has me so excited...this drought is unbearable.
eye0h
"aggressively persue a multiplatform strategy"
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Don't get your hopes up too high. We might not hear anything.
AxkilAvenger
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Hope for news has been zero for months. Only way to go is up from here.
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This is a really random thought, but I noticed on Nintendo's website today that they're selling refurbished 3DS AC adapters, and apparently they started as the DSi adapter. I vaguely recall some talk that there are technical reasons that the OLED dock wouldn't be appropriate for Drake, but if that weren't the case there's a precedent for a revision introducing a new peripheral that carries forward.
That being said, I suspect that the Switch AC adapter will move forward as is anyway!
That being said, I suspect that the Switch AC adapter will move forward as is anyway!
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You're sure losing a lot more than zero detail. If anyone can find an example of 1080p DLSS Quality looking worse than any 720p version, I'd be surprised but interested to see. Maybe if it was a game made up 90% of ghosting motion errors, but that's an unrealistic scenario. And the ghosting motion errors might affect DLAA anyway since it's basically the same thing? Unsure.
Related: Since 720p->4K was being discussed recently, I switched the game I was playing (Skyrim SE, using a new mod that allows DLSS/similar to be used) from Quality to Ultra Performance to see if it became obvious/annoying. At first I could tell a difference from when I was playing on Quality, but after a bit I only noticed when certain objects in motion got a more apparent jagged edge. Haven't bothered to change it back yet. If it gets used a lot with Drake, I wouldn't be disappointed. I do remember when I first got this machine I was less impressed with Ultra Performance on No Man's Sky, but I haven't been back recently. Because Why Not, I'll upload a few shots from the last few days that weren't just stationary shots of stationary things. The mod isn't perfect, though, you might notice the far right of the image has a column of pixels repeated for a while.
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The update for support for Drake, as in the physical upgrade, isn’t that big. They can keep the other parts the same and change the board.
Cuzizkool
Shriekbat
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Well, recalling the rumor that there was a Switch Pro, and it was cancelled, maybe the OLED dock would have been backwards compatible with the cancelled Pro? Because wasn’t there some data mined info that said the OLED dock was 4K compatible? But then the successor, Drake, being more powerful might need it’s own specially designed dock.
why would it need a specially designed dock? in theory it could work with even the launch switch dock, but just be limited to 1080p. the OLED dock might has just been a supply thing, with new display chips going up in minimum specWell, recalling the rumor that there was a Switch Pro, and it was cancelled, maybe the OLED dock would have been backwards compatible with the cancelled Pro? Because wasn’t there some data mined info that said the OLED dock was 4K compatible? But then the successor, Drake, being more powerful might need it’s own specially designed dock.
Cuzizkool
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I was going off the assumption that Drake might need a different fan or air flow setup for cooling than a Switch Pro would. But maybe it could use the OLED dock and just output 1080p.
D
Deleted member 887
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I dunno, not my area of knowledge! Since it’s a controller integrated into the SOC, I would assume it would be 1.4 same as Orin, but I’m ignorant here
It's actually the AC adapter from an obscure Wi-Fi router Nintendo released ages ago, the DSi was also reusing it. Nintendo is known to carry forward random peripherals from time to time when they have no reason to change it. You can what something was originally do by the prefix in its model number.
The Switch was using the Wii U HDMI cable (in a different color) up until the OLED model, where they slightly revised it.
Kazuyamishima
Moblin
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Am I missing something? In the settings the resolution was 4k
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If anything I’m convincing myself more and more that they’ll use DLC and visual improvements to give longer legs to titles like Splatoon 3.
kvetcha
hoopy frood
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Output resolution is 4k, but DLSS Ultra Performance mode upscales a 720p input to hit that 4k.
Kazuyamishima
Moblin
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Interesting so whenever you use DLSS ultra performance the input will anyways be 720p? Or is there a separate setting to choose input resolution
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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Choosing your mode chooses your resolution. By choosing Ultra Performance Mode you are choosing 720p as your input resolution.
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Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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Between the fact that Ultra Performance Mode just plain works and looks pretty good, and the fact it was found in the leaked files as one of the tested parameters, I'm fairly confident that a LOT of Drake games will be using Ultra Performance Mode. Ultra Performance Mode 1440p and 1080p drop the internal resolution even lower. Honestly, as long as Devs know how to use DLSS, I don't think performance will be much an issue on Drake even targeting 1080p with next gen games, because while it may not look pretty, they can almost always get a good enough image by mashing the internal resolution down enough until the square peg goes in the round hole.
Personally my resolution expectations for Drake are:
Locked 4K for patched last gen games, like Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, maybe Smash, etc. Dynamic 4K for later last gen games like Splatoon 3. DLSS Quality Mode for most cross-gen games. Ultra Performance Mode for most next gen "impossible ports". With most next gen Nintendo games falling somewhere in between.
Plenty of older games that get patched, Indies, and 2D games should have no trouble running at native 4K on Drake. I could see Bayonetta 3 getting a dynamic 4K, too.
Kise Ryota
Bob-omb
So performance is 4x and ultra performance is 8x (from native to dlss resolution). But is the goal always 4k? When we see videos coming from 360p, how they choose this resolution for native? Does it depend on the monitor's native resolution?
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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It's a proportion, yes. So if you set the resolution to 4K, then choose Ultra Performance Mode, you are selecting 720p rendering. This changes with different output resolutions. DLSS can even support dynamic resolution scaling, where the internal resolution scales to try and match a set framerate while DLSS takes whatever that number is up to the target resolution.
SiG
Chain Chomp
Is dynamic resolution DLSS the version used when putting to "DLSS: Auto"?
Kazuyamishima
Moblin
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Doesn't sound like it makes much sense honestly
Kise Ryota
Bob-omb
Oh, ok. So you can choose the final resolution, and choosing the DLSS mode is like choosing the multiplier.
I see many comments (elsewhere) saying it doesn't make sense to use DLSS to hit 1080p. I'm going to build my new PC today (with a humble 3060 ti) and I want to run some tests with DLSS and see how it works, and if it could be ok in a 7" screen coming from 360p (for 720p) or 540p (for 1080p).
I see many comments (elsewhere) saying it doesn't make sense to use DLSS to hit 1080p. I'm going to build my new PC today (with a humble 3060 ti) and I want to run some tests with DLSS and see how it works, and if it could be ok in a 7" screen coming from 360p (for 720p) or 540p (for 1080p).
Dekuman
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We know Switch will be supported past the launch of the next device, so I'm not sure why people keep using DLC release dates as benchmarks for when the device could drop.
In anycase, that Pokemon leak (assuming it is true) also suggests a DLC as a launching pad for a next-gen Switch patch for the game so the concern itself isn't even internally consistent.
In anycase, that Pokemon leak (assuming it is true) also suggests a DLC as a launching pad for a next-gen Switch patch for the game so the concern itself isn't even internally consistent.
Kazuyamishima
Moblin
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Nice congrats on the PC! Enjoy it! Also I wouldn't say 3060ti is humble considering most of the population still uses a 1060 or equivalent card like a 980
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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Which is great considering where Drake lands in terms of CUDA core count...
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The GBASP charger was also shared with DS Phat.
The named standards work as such, in a single dimension.
Quality: 66.6%
Balanced: 58%
Performance: 50%
Ultra Performance: 33.3%
So to pick a random pair, Balanced mode for 1440p would start with 1485x835 new pixels each frame. There's no reason other input resolutions can't be used, but almost everything sticks with these options to keep things simple.
3060Ti buddies.
DLSSing to 1080p is fine, though preferably not starting from as low as 360p. But it's also usually the case that any RTX GPU can already run most games decently at 1080p, so throwing DLSS at it can seem overkill. Until I upgraded from a 1080p60 to 4K120 screen I felt like my GPU was mostly being wasted. Something as small and low power as Drake in portable mode is a whole different ballgame, though.
Kise Ryota
Bob-omb
3060Ti buddies.
Yeah, I imagine the 3060 ti will handle most games just fine in 1080p. But most comments I read were saying there's not enough pixels to work with [for the reconstruction], and that with such a low resolution it would have a lot of artifacts and ghosting. So the first thing that came to my mind while reading this was switch 2 lol
But also, I just watched a cyberpunk video where a guy using a 3060ti was testing DLSS for a 1080p, output and with DLSS he was getting 55fps (RT was ON) and without DLSS it tanked to 35fps. I mean, the difference is considerable. So, I want to see with my own eyes - without youtube compression - how DLSS works, if I can notice artifacts, ghosting, etc (and my biggest interest on this is really trying to have an idea of what I can expect from switch 2 using this tech)
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Here's something I did a few months back, comparing a few 360->720, 360->1080, 540->1080 shots for the same game in the same areas. It's definitely true the lower you start the worse the result is, but the output of 360->1080 still looks a lot better than just being stuck at 360.
Kise Ryota
Bob-omb
I'm curious to run these tests and see it in movement (it'll be my first time using DLSS). Would you say (when you did these tests) that coming from 540p to 1080p is noticeably worse (specially when moving) than native 1080p?
D
Deleted member 645
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It’s Nintendo…. It’s possible
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I wonder what the system will support for TVs and Audio, software wise.
I know we focus on the hardware side of things… but let’s focus on the software side? Like features that they should include? While also being related to hardware of course.
On the OS level or to supplant other software that runs on the system
I know we focus on the hardware side of things… but let’s focus on the software side? Like features that they should include? While also being related to hardware of course.
On the OS level or to supplant other software that runs on the system
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Tentacle-tropes
Kremling
I’ve never really liked this reasoning because it isn’t a reason
Zedark
The guy with the ToV avatar
I agree, it doesn't constitute an argument.
If we were to brainstorm some ideas, then one could say that they found that enabling DLSS required extra energy consumption because the tensor cores produced significant extra heat when tasked with running the DLSS algorithm, putting the battery below their own target. Therefore, they decided to disable it in handheld. And then in order to maintain parity, they decided to disable it in docked mode and focus on a 1080p output instead.
I doubt NVIDIA would be happy if the big N gimped their technology in such a way. Not to mention that there could definitely be a likely case made for the idea that rendering at 360p/480p with DLSS to 720p would require lower clocks and therefore allow better battery, so enabling DLSS would actively be in Nintendo's interest. Plus I doubt the tensor cores would produce such a significant increase in heat for an algorithm that would run at most for 1/4 for the time and probably quite a bit less than that. And it is a non-sequitur to argue that they would enforce parity in docked mode for DLSS, since they will be well aware that the target output has gone up from 1080p to 4K since a few years and there is no clear reason for them not to allow a perfectable employable algorithm for this.
Armoured_Bear
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Why not?
This is the company that removed the Ethernet port to save a few pennies from the GameCube, forcing people in later consoles to buy singles to get a wired connection, that pioneered analogue triggers them dropped them from every future console, that gave a revolutionary console (Wii) a clock speed bumped previous generation cpu and gpu. You can go on and on but as much as we love Nintendo, their history of strange or disappoint cost-cutting decisions is very long. Why this insistence on believing they’re somehow a different company now? Based on their entire history, Switch 2 is likely to be puzzlingly gimped in some way or another.
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Well, Orin's max DP version seems to be 1.4a, so if it does, it would be a notable departure from existing models on the same architecture.
Kazuyamishima
Moblin
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Isn't the switch missing the Ethernet port too?
Zedark
The guy with the ToV avatar
Oh I'm sure there will be some areas where the Switch will be limited. My prime candidates would be the internal storage being 64-128 GB only and/or expandable storage being ill-fit in terms of access speed or crazily expensive.
However, in this case we are discussing about the T239 chip. Assuming that this is indeed the chip that will be in the Switch 2, then it already comes equipped with the capacity to do DLSS. Making it incapable of running DLSS would only be in any way conceivable if it incurs a significant overhead in power consumption, but so far we have had little indication for that I think. In fact, DLSS might actually enable the 'because Nintendo' line of thinking: since DLSS allows for efficient rendering at lower resolution, it could give a reason for Nintendo to contend themselves with a relatively low clock profile since DLSS allows for the hardware to push above its weight. So they can have their cake and eat it, too.
Of course, if you disagree with the assumption that Nintendo are using the T239 'because it would be too advanced for Nintendo to go with', then that's a different story, of course. But at least the GC had a good chip inside of it, so it is at least not unprecedented for Nintendo to have a strong chip.
Even the TX1 was a good chip for the time, although it was an a shitty process node. If they had launched with Mariko and clocked it thereafter, it would have been more or less the best anyone could have asked for.
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